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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Roronoa Zoro

Gold Member
So here’s my guess as of this moment.

$600 XSX
$500 PS5

Both are also worth that, so don’t whine no matter which camp you sit in. How much was that stupid phone that you’re browsing this on right now?
Sony can just link to the 599 US dollars video or the Xbox One price reveal if they are $100 less

MS better have that cheaper option ready this year
 

Roronoa Zoro

Gold Member
They did that with the PS3 by having a starting price of $500. People forget that and instantly call it the $600 console because it had a higher-tier storage option.
Yeah it would be all about how you sell it. Put that $450 or $400 one front and center and offhandedly or after the big conference you bring up that there's another option.

If the break even point is between $400 and $500 maybe they could offer one model on each end. Yes I know it would not cost them $100 more to put in another tb of storage and that's the point for them to make more while making the lower end option available
 

01011001

Banned
Sony can just link to the 599 US dollars video or the Xbox One price reveal if they are $100 less

MS better have that cheaper option ready this year

we could see an actual fight unfold over pricing... who is willing to sell the lowest and stuff. who goes super aggressive, maybe even needs to go super aggressive and who doesn't... or maybe both sell really cheap.
I think it's gonna be more interesting than last time around with these systems

They did that with the PS3 by having a starting price of $500. People forget that and instantly call it the $600 console because it had a higher-tier storage option.

THERE WERE LITERALLY GAMES YOU COULD NOT PLAY ON THAT PS3 BECAUSE THE INSTALLS WERE TOO BIG... that's why no one mentions it. it was an absolutely worthless product.
also that version never released in Europe/PAL regions
 
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Ruben43cb

Member
You mean they'll represent their power at that pricetag? Not sure if Phil Specner can report back to Microsoft that he's willing to eat a loss on every console and continue as the CEO of Xbox, he'll simply get sacked in the morning. Sony can do that and might attempt it even if they have the more powerful console, just to crush the competition. PlayStation is backed by Sony, Xbox is not backed by MS and could get axed and in no position to gamble on prices:





That is a 2014 article
LOL.

That's 6 years old
 
guys one thing to keep in mind about the writer of the Bloomberg article , he has been wrong many times .

He predicted in 2018 nintendo would ship 25 million switches , that never happened . He said switch pro in 2019, then 2020 and we know from Nintendo switch pro is not even coming in 2020. So take his articles with grain of salt .
 

TGO

Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
One X was $500. Thinking anything less is delusional neogaf crap. XSX will NOT be cheaper than $500, it will not be cheaper than One X. I took you all as brighter than this (my bad). Stop frothing at the mouth and use your heads.

XSX will be $500 or more.
Was it?
Seems to have dropped in price a lot compared to the PS4 Pro.
You can get bundles as cheap as a Pro now
Maybe that because the price was a mistake
Just a thought
 

Moneal

Member
One X was $500. Thinking anything less is delusional neogaf crap. XSX will NOT be cheaper than $500, it will not be cheaper than One X. I took you all as brighter than this (my bad). Stop frothing at the mouth and use your heads.

XSX will be $500 or more.
One X was always presented as an enthusiast machine. They had the S for the main market. If MS goes $600 and doesn't have Lockhart they are doa this gen.

Pro at an even lower cost was selling only around 20% of PS4s. Price has always been the biggest factor in console sales. Again it won't matter at launch, but sales will tank by year 3 for both if they can't get the price down around $300.
 
The sharing of games video wasnt being particularly cocky. It can be viewed a bit as such, but Microsoft *literally* set themselves up for that in 2013.

Their initial messaging and reveal of the Xbox One was an unmitigated disaster, primarily caused by Mattrick, and Sony capitalized on all fronts. I worked at GameStop at the time and I remember when pre-orders opened, we had significantly more allocation of PS4 than Xbox One.

When I pressed our DM on why, he responded with "Sony supports GameStop's Used game market. Xbox doesn't." I still have that email somewhere on an old phone.

I, for one, am grateful Microsoft was able to turn that around and I'm a pretty big fan of Spencer and his overall vision of an "ecosystem" and cross play.
 
That's why I told Tim he's fooling no one when he started posting on this thread again. :messenger_tears_of_joy:

He said he didn't care which console was more powerful but I know for a fact that he would not like it if the insiders are correct.
Yeah man Sony headquarters better watch out. He's the type that would show up with a bomb strapped to his big ass. Kind of like him in the youtube video in front of the bestbuy store. The more I researched - the crazier I found he is. He's got some real mental issues that if left untreated is going to lead to his demise.
 

Fake

Member
It's important to note that what is on the APU (Jaguar/Zen etc.) is not that important to cost. It's the cost of the chip based on yields and the cost of fab process used. The One X was $500 in 2017, that's an important distinction. In 2017 a 1TB 7200 RPM spinners was $100 retail (at 2.5"), guess what price a 1TB SSD is now on the lower end. Obviously, MS doesn't pay retail, but as an example it shows trends. More information is needed, to make an accurate price assumption, than is currently available. How many GDDR6 chips are we talking about, and at what density (a 2GB GGDR6 module is <= in cost today when compared a 1GB GGDR5 chip in 2017 from most volume suppliers)? Many questions.

$500 or $600 could certainly be in the realm of possibility, I wouldn't rule it out. But I wouldn't mandate it just yet either.

All need to be take into consideration, not only the CPU if you're read my post. Besides, if you back in time my guess was >$499 (more than) from both machines and the recent bloomberg hit starting at $450.
You can go even more deep and read people saying $399...

There is a little difference between assumption and stupid. And we can't compare the 'actual' price of machine. We need to use the Sony/Microsoft started price plus the retail price from the time both PS4/Xbox/PRO/XboxX was release.

And this a positive sign! Don’t want a weak hardware.
100% agree. I don't want either and by the recent article, at least, Sony is listening feedback about the terrible PRO cooling system.
 
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DeeDogg_

Banned
Depends how high end. If Sony is a couple TFs lower they could get the price lower right?
Yes but the difference is the smallest between the 2 consoles than they’ve ever been. No matter who’s more powerful or less they should still be the same price. And Sony can offset that disadvantage by offering a better SSD or other components. It’s not all about the flops.
 

Mriverz

Member
Rogame found a navi 12 gpu with hbm2 and 40cus. Thoughts?https://adoredtv.com/unknown-navi-g...g-capabilities/amp/?__twitter_impression=true


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet">
@dylan522p @TriMrDito

HBM2 up to 2000MT/s same as Radeon VII. Each package has 1024‑bit wide access for up to 256GB/s

dram_channel_width_bytes = 16 (16x8bit = 128bit/channel)
num_chans = 16

128bitx16 = 2048-bit = 2x1024-bit = 2 HBM2 stacks &amp; 512GB/shttps://t.co/R6VfRuGN3i
&mdash; _rogame (@_rogame) February 13, 2020
 
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Sub_Level

wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Why are some folks online so averse to a $500 price point, be it for xbox or ps5?

$500 in 2020 for a hobby you spend hundreds of hours on is not a big deal. Obviously for some less fortunate households its a different story, but I can't imagine how any middle class dude would complain about $500. Unemployment is pretty low. Even in a minimum wage gig, you can literally save for a few paychecks...
 
Rogame found a navi 12 gpu with hbm2 and 40cus. Thoughts?https://adoredtv.com/unknown-navi-g...g-capabilities/amp/?__twitter_impression=true


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet">
@dylan522p @TriMrDito

HBM2 up to 2000MT/s same as Radeon VII. Each package has 1024‑bit wide access for up to 256GB/s

dram_channel_width_bytes = 16 (16x8bit = 128bit/channel)
num_chans = 16

128bitx16 = 2048-bit = 2x1024-bit = 2 HBM2 stacks &amp; 512GB/shttps://t.co/R6VfRuGN3i
&mdash; _rogame (@_rogame) February 13, 2020

Doesn't make a lick of sense.

Why go with 2x Stacks of HBM2 for only 512GB/s. Radeon VII was over 1TB/s bandwidth with 2x stacks.

Also, a 2048bit interface with 512GB/s means 2Gbits/s DRAM dies, which is low, considering HBM2E can go up to 3.2Gbits/s.

I also, don't see how 2000MT/s aligns with a 2048bit interface. As this condradicts the 256GB/s bw and implies DRAMs clocked lower than 1Gbit/s.

Doesn't make sense.


GPU core clock makes even less sense here. The clocks vs power curve for Navi 10 (of which this is clearly a derivative) shows it can be happily clocked up to 1.7 to 1.8 GHz before power starts jumping exponentially. 1.1GHz is just leaving performance on the table for minimal increase in power consumption.
 

darkinstinct

...lacks reading comprehension.
Rogame found a navi 12 gpu with hbm2 and 40cus. Thoughts?https://adoredtv.com/unknown-navi-g...g-capabilities/amp/?__twitter_impression=true


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet">
@dylan522p @TriMrDito

HBM2 up to 2000MT/s same as Radeon VII. Each package has 1024‑bit wide access for up to 256GB/s

dram_channel_width_bytes = 16 (16x8bit = 128bit/channel)
num_chans = 16

128bitx16 = 2048-bit = 2x1024-bit = 2 HBM2 stacks &amp; 512GB/shttps://t.co/R6VfRuGN3i
&mdash; _rogame (@_rogame) February 13, 2020
Isn't that the thing that doesn't even have an image processor, so it can't put out an image on screen? It's a pure server design.
 


This guy is so clueless... lol

He references the Bloomberg article taking about a supposed camera in the PS5, which is nonsense as the actual article is talking about DRAM usage in Sony's Alpha Compact System Cameras, where they decided to cancel an updated version to the pricing and availability of DRAM.

In addition, his arguments against a chiplet-based design is equally clueless. A 40 CU Navi 10 based monolithic APU would be a little smaller than 350 sqmm, which while it would probably yield well on 7nm, the yields for PS4 Pro are entirely irrelevant because it's made on an entirely different process node.

Equally, splitting said chip into discrete GPU and CPU dies would provide a huge saving in raw silicon cost, principally because of the CPU die being tiny, means they will yield well over 150% more CPU dies per wafer, and if they don't cut down the cache sizes on the CPU (which is unnecessary for discrete dies) they can sell what spare CPU dies they don't back to AMD to be flogged in the discrete desktop CPU market (or rather AMD will credit them with a deeper discount as they actually buy the chips directly from AMD).

Also, packaging costs won't come anywhere close to the nullifying the saving on increased yields with discrete chips. Especially if they go with an MCM design with or without an interposer (the latter could be facilitated by something like an integrated fan-out packaging technology).

In addition, a fully integrated design, could really benefit from an MCM design, with the ability to shunt some of the none essential gubbinz off onto the interposer die fabbed on a cheap 10, 14 or even 16nm FF node.
 

Insane Metal

Gold Member
Rogame found a navi 12 gpu with hbm2 and 40cus. Thoughts?https://adoredtv.com/unknown-navi-g...g-capabilities/amp/?__twitter_impression=true


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet">
@dylan522p @TriMrDito

HBM2 up to 2000MT/s same as Radeon VII. Each package has 1024‑bit wide access for up to 256GB/s

dram_channel_width_bytes = 16 (16x8bit = 128bit/channel)
num_chans = 16

128bitx16 = 2048-bit = 2x1024-bit = 2 HBM2 stacks &amp; 512GB/shttps://t.co/R6VfRuGN3i
&mdash; _rogame (@_rogame) February 13, 2020
He already said this has nothing to do with videogame consoles.
 
Probably right, but PS3 was more powerful but too complicated, I think the only time PS got beaten by Xbox in terms of power is with the XOX. I doubt they won't brag if they end up having the most powerful console, just like any company for that sake.



I see. We actually don't get VIZIO tv's here, I think they're exclusive to the US market for now.
Except the ps3 was less powerful than the xbox360 ( the fact that Sony fanboys convinced themselves that Sony exclusives were better looking than Halo 4, forza horizon, gears 3 and the top 3rd party games that all looked and run better on the xbox360 doesn’t mean a thing) , coming a year later, the Xbox demolished the ps2 and Xbox one x demolished the ps4 pro. The only time a PlayStation was actually more powerful was when MS had the «brilliant» idea to focus their videogames’ strategy in Kinect.
 

SmokSmog

Member
Why go with 2x Stacks of HBM2 for only 512GB/s. Radeon VII was over 1TB/s bandwidth with 2x stacks.
giphy.gif

9wNtokztVhnGSMYo.jpg


You need new HBM2E from samsung for 1TB/s on 2 stacks.

Except the ps3 was less powerful than the xbox360 ( the fact that Sony fanboys convinced themselves that Sony exclusives were better looking than Halo 4, forza horizon, gears 3 and the top 3rd party games that all looked and run better on the xbox360 doesn’t mean a thing) , coming a year later, the Xbox demolished the ps2 and Xbox one x demolished the ps4 pro. The only time a PlayStation was actually more powerful was when MS had the «brilliant» idea to focus their videogames’ strategy in Kinect.
breaking-bad-youre-goddamn-right-gif-4.gif
 
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Isn't that the thing that doesn't even have an image processor, so it can't put out an image on screen? It's a pure server design.

I think you're thinking about Arcturus. Different thing altogether,

Could you do a resume, can't see right now.

Some bollocks about PS5 RT not being a separate chip (which we all knew anyway -- well, those of us with any meaningful appreciation for how RT works).
Some bollocks about a PS5 camera, that devs aren't happy with it.
Some bollocks about PS5 RT being there but just not being tested by AMD in Oberon (how convenient) -- with no reasoning; which is especially odd given than Arden RT was tested, despite no other meaningful Arden or Sparkman regression testing data being available (hmqgg --a MS insider at Resetera -- confirmed it wasn't yet ready for testing).

I think RGTech just regurgitates crap he finds on the internet and the stuff that nameless internet fanboys send him. I don't believe he has any legitimate sources.
 
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SmokSmog

Member
Ok it was 4x stacks.

But again, why bear the cost of the more expensive HBM2, for a measly 512GB/s when GDDR6 will give you than on a 256bit memory interface.

Lower latency and/or reduced power consumption for a DL-focused server chip, perhaps?
New samsung HBM2E is rated at 410GB/s per stack with optional max overclock to 538GB/s per stack.

Except the ps3 was less powerful than the xbox360 ( the fact that Sony fanboys convinced themselves that Sony exclusives were better looking than Halo 4, forza horizon, gears 3 and the top 3rd party games that all looked and run better on the xbox360 doesn’t mean a thing) , coming a year later, the Xbox demolished the ps2 and Xbox one x demolished the ps4 pro. The only time a PlayStation was actually more powerful was when MS had the «brilliant» idea to focus their videogames’ strategy in Kinect.
One developer said that xbox360 gpu was average 50% faster than main ps3 RSX
 
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sinnergy

Member
I think you're thinking about Arcturus. Different thing altogether,



Some bollocks about PS5 RT not being a separate chip (which we all knew anyway -- well, those of us with any meaningful appreciation for how RT works).
Some bollocks about a PS5 camera, that devs aren't happy with it.
Some bollocks about PS5 RT being there but just not being tested by AMD in Oberon (how convenient) -- with no reasoning; which is especially odd given than Arden RT was tested, despite no other meaningful Arden or Sparkman regression testing data being available (hmqgg --a MS insider at Resetera -- confirmed it wasn't yet ready for testing).

I think RGTech just regurgitates crap he finds on the internet and the stuff that nameless internet fanboys send him. I don't believe he has any legitimate sources.
Nah he doesn’t, I followed him more than a year and he does get inside information.. think of it as you like.
 

ANIMAL1975

Member
Not to say it is accurate or not, but a certain contingent here probably won't like that vid. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
I think you're thinking about Arcturus. Different thing altogether,



Some bollocks about PS5 RT not being a separate chip (which we all knew anyway -- well, those of us with any meaningful appreciation for how RT works).
Some bollocks about a PS5 camera, that devs aren't happy with it.
Some bollocks about PS5 RT being there but just not being tested by AMD in Oberon (how convenient) -- with no reasoning; which is especially odd given than Arden RT was tested, despite no other meaningful Arden or Sparkman regression testing data being available (hmqgg --a MS insider at Resetera -- confirmed it wasn't yet ready for testing).

I think RGTech just regurgitates crap he finds on the internet and the stuff that nameless internet fanboys send him. I don't believe he has any legitimate sources.
Thanks mate, unfortunately what i was expecting _ nothing new, the same old riding the waves (this time created by the Bloomberg article) to get the clicks,,,, meh.
 

sinnergy

Member
Feel free to provide a meaningful counterpoint with actual examples of leaks he's exclusively dropped that ended up correct...

I think you might struggle.
Nah he knew specific Navi stuff and that they struggled before release and in what order they released and even big Navi back then and that was what I can remember begin 2019. I watched most of his videos, you?
 
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