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[Moridianae]

Freakin' Colbert. I hate that dude. He was down on BOTH systems, predicting like 8-9TF for each. Hes conceited.

Then Microsoft comes along and hes like oh guess its 12 and changes it. Sony hasn't said anything and despite all legitimate candidates(Klee, Osiris, Reiner, Schrier) all hinting at PS5 being very close or even stronger, he's like "Nah, 3 TF behind."

And anyone who disagrees with him on it, he stands on a soapbox or blocks anyone who goes against his narrative. It's stupid.

 

[lynux3]

Agreed. Sony can reveal the PS5 whenever they feel like it (realistically, this summer before pre-orders open). What's funny is that MS barely revealed anything about the XSX (a couple pictures and a few vague statements), yet forum posters seem perfectly fine with waiting until e3 for more information.

It's the expectation of a February reveal that has everyone antsy. Didn't help that the CFO said PS5 would be revealed in a similar timeline recently.

 

[Neo Blaster]

Agreed. Sony can reveal the PS5 whenever they feel like it (realistically, this summer before pre-orders open). What's funny is that MS barely revealed anything about the XSX (a couple pictures and a few vague statements), yet forum posters seem perfectly fine with waiting until e3 for more information.

At least Xbox fans have a fixed date to know it all if nothing happens before that, it's PS fans who are left in the limbo.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Phil was confident about price/cost all the way back at E3:



Tariffs issues have gone away as I thought they would so that is a bonus for costs.

Matt Booty doesn't agree. All this nonsense of no XSX exclusive shows that they are not confident about the pricing vs public reception.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Unfortunately it doesn't say much.

I think he says enough. He states he believes they'll hit their cost/price target and that was with the threat of tariffs. By now virtually everything is locked in and supply contracts signed.

Matt Booty doesn't agree. All this nonsense of no XSX exclusive shows that they are not confident about the pricing vs public reception.

What did Matt Booty say about price/cost?

 

[Moridianae]

I was talking with my best friend from college and we agree that $499 is probably the only reasonable assumption for both consoles given the power level.

Somebody might go $449, but no $399 bullseye this time for either company.

People will pay $499, I think. People spend more on phones and watches these days, honestly.

Pro and X have shown people will pay a premium for power. I would rather have the power now in both systems than wait for an upgraded system 2 or 3 years down the road(though I'm sure that'll happen anyway).

 

[Bo_Hazem]

What did Matt Booty say about price/cost?

Nothing direct, but "no XSX exclusives" and not separating their install base provokes the feel of DOA.

They don't expect to be sold out in few hours like PS4's, even PS4 Pro was difficult to find. Sony's biggest enemy is overwhelming demands and stock shortage.

Where and how to buy a PlayStation 4 Pro

Sony seems to be having some stock issues

www.polygon.com

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

At least Xbox fans have a fixed date to know it all if nothing happens before that, it's PS fans who are left in the limbo.

Eh they have plenty of time. I would Mark September as the latest they would do something to make sure MS doesn't change anything but they'll probably reveal long before that. People say GDC will have leaks if they haven't already told people. They will have to have something at Gamescom I'm sure

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Going back to the bizarre ad, did Sony know that they're leading in terms of power at this point as most reports say all specs are 99% fixed by now and as OsirisBlack and BGs confirmed?

 

[Neo Blaster]

Eh they have plenty of time. I would Mark September as the latest they would do something to make sure MS doesn't change anything but they'll probably reveal long before that. People say GDC will have leaks if they haven't already told people. They will have to have something at Gamescom I'm sure

If GDC is not cancelled like MWP and TGS due to coronavirus. But I really doubt Sony would let MS control the narrative alone during E3, they probably would do something right before or during it.

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

Going back to the bizarre ad, did Sony know that they're leading in terms of power at this point as most reports say all specs are 99% fixed by now and as OsirisBlack and BGs confirmed?

Sony tends to be very hypy with their power even if they aren't first. I wouldn't put much stock in some slogan. They usually hype their consoles up compared to last gen not their competitors. Remember the duck demos?

 

[joe_zazen]

VIZIO in the US market is another amazing brand to check out as well.

failure rates approaching 20% in first five years, terrible customer satisfaction numbers, not recommended by consumer reports. They are cheap though, ill give them that.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Sony tends to be very hypy with their power even if they aren't first. I wouldn't put much stock in some slogan. They usually hype their consoles up compared to last gen not their competitors. Remember the duck demos?

Probably right, but PS3 was more powerful but too complicated, I think the only time PS got beaten by Xbox in terms of power is with the XOX. I doubt they won't brag if they end up having the most powerful console, just like any company for that sake.

failure rates approaching 20% in first five years, terrible customer satisfaction numbers, not recommended by consumer reports. They are cheap though, ill give them that.

I see. We actually don't get VIZIO tv's here, I think they're exclusive to the US market for now.

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

Probably right, but PS3 was more powerful but too complicated, I think the only time PS got beaten by Xbox in terms of power is with the XOX. I doubt they won't brag if they end up having the most powerful console, just like any company for that sake.



I see. We actually don't get VIZIO tv's here, I think they're exclusive to the US market for now.

Vizios also tend to have a very soap opera effect. They're what people who can't afford to ACTUALLY get 4k get to say they have "4k" because that's what it says on the box. Was the same way with HD. They have super cheap sets that say they have the latest thing but it's usually a faux version of it.

And yeah I have no idea what the power will end up being im just saying marketing slogans like that have little to no indication of how the power will shake out. It will be powerful to almost everyone of that I'm sure. Some super PC gamers may scoff at next gen but most people will look at last gen as the comparison and feel the power.

I think they'll only bring up the MS comparison in conferences or when asked in interviews

 

[Fake]

I think he says enough. He states he believes they'll hit their cost/price target and that was with the threat of tariffs. By now virtually everything is locked in and supply contracts signed.

Still don't say much. You're pretty much believing in a guy who want to sell you the product. Even if Sony saying the same think, after the bloomberg article is just using some logic.

Imagine me, ceo of Samsung, saying to you the next Galaxy will hit their cost/price so you shouldn't worry about the price... Will you still believe? Common sense. I can both saying soft and vague words about my product to my clients.

Neither company will go cheap on their premium console. Now, not saying you can't believe in Phils word, but past tell otherwise.

 

[Moneal]

I was talking with my best friend from college and we agree that $499 is probably the only reasonable assumption for both consoles given the power level.

Somebody might go $449, but no $399 bullseye this time for either company.

People will pay $499, I think. People spend more on phones and watches these days, honestly.

Pro and X have shown people will pay a premium for power. I would rather have the power now in both systems than wait for an upgraded system 2 or 3 years down the road(though I'm sure that'll happen anyway).

The problem I see with $499, is definitely not at launch. Its 3 years in. How do they get the price down to an acceptable level for the year 3 buyers. I don't see anywhere close to PS4 levels of purchases in year 3 if the price is still above $299. That is a $200 drop in only 3 years. Xbox One and PS3 both did it, but both only did so by removing actual hardware from their packages.

 

[Fake]

failure rates approaching 20% in first five years, terrible customer satisfaction numbers, not recommended by consumer reports. They are cheap though, ill give them that.

Besides that 'spying' shit.

 

[xPikYx]

Today is a completely different scenario from that 600$ ps3 launch in 2006, in 2020 a 600 $ console is cheap

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Still don't say much. You're pretty much believing in a guy who want to sell you the product. Even if Sony saying the same think, after the bloomberg article is just using some logic.

Imagine me, ceo of Samsung, saying to you the next Galaxy will hit their cost/price so you shouldn't worry about the price... Will you still believe?

Neither company will go cheap on their premium console. Now, not saying you can't believe in Phils word, but past tell otherwise.

Sure all these execs went to the politician school of speaking but I don't see the point in thinking they all bare face lie all the time!

 

[BattleScar]

They might only have an effect on those using HBM2. If Sony went with HBM2 and a ReRAM suppported SSD, that would explain the cost issues and the ultra fast SSD.

That's not how it works. DRAM is DRAM. HBM uses very low-clocked DRAM that is locally attached to the silicon. It's high bandwidth doesn't come from its blazing fast clocks a la GDDR memory, but from it's huge bus width.
The expense with HBM comes from its packaging, which requires a silicon interposer.

If HBM is involved, then the vast majority of the added cost is coming from the complex and expensive packaging and not the actual DRAM.

Ultimately. If DRAM is more expensive for Sony, it's more expensive for Microsoft.

 

[magnumpy]

they could always release at two different price points. maybe a $399 and a $499 option. the more expensive option could come with a free game and a 3 month PSN subscription? or whatever, obviously there's room to negotiate there. then in ~a year they would just drop the $499 option and sail on the PS5 sales until the end of time

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Do you want to point out to me where I did that?

I simply asked why you called me a fanboy. I pointed to the github topic because all morning, from your camp, the narrative has been "expensive cooling=2ghz=github real".

I don't remember calling you a fanboy. Was just saying your insistence on anyone paying attention to that leak seems to be like an anti-Sony or anti-PS5 thing. My apologies if it came off that way.

But, to your other point, the mention of the cooling in particular does indicate that same Oberon setup possibly being employed IMHO because the devkit itself (the V-shaped one) has a pretty radical cooling setup and that is the same devkit with the 2GHz 36/40CU Oberon in it. The logical conclusion is that if the retail PS5 is going to use a somewhat similar design to the devkit (just likely smaller), and there's already a known instance of a given chip clocked high enough to require a cooling that some would call "unusual"....and it'd appear PS5 is spending more on cooling than the usual...why not draw a correlation?

However, I'll be fair and say that the article is missing context in the quote. Seems like cooling has traditionally been done on the cheap with consoles as a whole. So if before, they spend only a dollar (still sounds ridiculously low) on cooling but now they're spending, say, $3, that could still basically be a more competent cooling solution but probably nothing too radical.

So I'm not saying for absolute sure that mention on cooling being "unusual" means it's using a 36/40CU Oberon chip, but it was a pretty specific thing to make mention of in the article and we've all been spoken about the devkit's cooling specifically because it's using an Oberon chip clocked really high. It's a correlation.

 

[devilNprada]

(realistically, this summer before pre-orders open)

This... But E3 is technically spring, does summer to some people mean simply June/July/August... So would you then say after E3? Wouldn't make sense if game companies showed their new next gen games and the console hasn't even been revealed.

 

[FranXico]

Going back to the bizarre ad, did Sony know that they're leading in terms of power at this point as most reports say all specs are 99% fixed by now and as OsirisBlack and BGs confirmed?

It's a rather old slogan. If anything, this just means marketing is going to keep focusing on nostalgia. Nothing to do with the PS5 hardware.

 

[M-V2]

Xbox fans now

 

[M-V2]

Vs Xbox fanboys after ps5 reveal

 

[DaGwaphics]

This... But E3 is technically spring, does summer to some people mean simply June/July/August... So would you then say after E3? Wouldn't make sense if game companies showed their new next gen games and the console hasn't even been revealed.

e3 is June 9 - 11th, I consider that Summer. MS may do their keynote before the show officially starts (Sun or Mon). I assume pre-orders will open for them immediately following that. I would expect Sony to have pre-orders open in a reasonably comparable timeline.

 

[devilNprada]

e3 is June 9 - 11th, I consider that Summer. MS may do their keynote before the show officially starts (Sun or Mon). I assume pre-orders will open for them immediately following that. I would expect Sony to have pre-orders open in a reasonably comparable timeline.

Yeah I am confident you are correct. Pre-orders will open up in the "summer" But summer techically starts June 20. Do you think it Wil be before or after E3?

 

[DaGwaphics]

Yeah I am confident ent you are correct. Pre-orders will open up in the "summer" But summer techically starts June 20. Do you think it Wil be before or after E3?

Does the summer start June 20th? I don't know my seasons, LOL. For MS I think pre-orders open on June 7 - 9th depending on when MS delivers their conference.

 

[Fake]

Sure all these execs went to the politician school of speaking but I don't see the point in thinking they all bare face lie all the time!

I don't see the point of both believe Phil and bloomberg article at the same time either. PS5 will not be cheap. seX will not be cheap.

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

they could always release at two different price points. maybe a $399 and a $499 option. the more expensive option could come with a free game and a 3 month PSN subscription? or whatever, obviously there's room to negotiate there. then in ~a year they would just drop the $499 option and sail on the PS5 sales until the end of time

I think they should have two different price points but just for storage. Stores can have the cheaper 1tb SSD models and then they can sell a more expensive 1.5 or 2tb SSD model

Hell I wouldn't mind a more expensive option with BC and some hardware for it just being available online or something just for enthusiasts to have the option (I don't think it would be something that needed to be in stores as it would be super expensive and for a niche audience)

Edit: oh and in case this isn't clear this is just wishful thinking I'm sure they'll have one model and it will probably be 1tb. Wouldn't be worth the development to sell the BC model to such a niche

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Does the summer start June 20th? I don't know my seasons, LOL. For MS I think pre-orders open on June 7 - 9th depending on when MS delivers their conference.

If you're in the southern part of earth that's Winter. But yes, Summer starts between 21st-27th of June for the nothern part of earth. It might be snowing at some parts of Australia around that time.

 

[DaGwaphics]

If you're in the southern part of earth that's Winter. But yes, Summer starts between 21st-27th of June for the nothern part of earth. It might be snowing at some parts of Australia around that time.

Where I live it's hot AF in May already, so I personally consider that summer.

 

[JAMMA]

.

 

[JLMC469]

One X was $500. Thinking anything less is delusional neogaf crap. XSX will NOT be cheaper than $500, it will not be cheaper than One X. I took you all as brighter than this (my bad). Stop frothing at the mouth and use your heads.

XSX will be $500 or more.

Yeah, this consoles will be expensive.

 

[Ralf]

Vs Xbox fanboys after ps5 reveal

or this:

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Where I live it's hot AF in May already, so I personally consider that summer already.

My region is considered subtropical, and the best season is during what's technically known as summer, when we barely see the son and might spend weeks or more than a month without seeing the son! Midday gets around 25-28C in the city at sea level, funny thing it's the same all day long. I was getting bitten by biting midgets but pretending to be enjoying my time

 

[Fake]

One X was $500. Thinking anything less is delusional neogaf crap.

That's the stupid subject I probably ignore about almost the entire thread. Xbox One X launch at $500 with a fucking JAGUAR CPU. How they can believe a machine with a Ryzen CPU, SSD and RT, when Ryzen is in a universe ahead the Jaguar, could make the seX cost, IDK, $399?

The funny aspect of the discussion is, as an argument, they use Amazon, Wallmart, Bestbuy price instead of the base price and the release price for comparison.
I not blame neogaf at all, but resetera for sometime put that premisse and I find super stupid.

At point the discussion was at level of stupidity or astroturfing.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

I don't see the point of both believe Phil and bloomberg article at the same time either. PS5 will not be cheap. seX will not be cheap.

You're confusing me, Fake. The string of thoughts with my posts was about the BOM cost and that Phil was saying he was happy at what component costs were coming in at in mid-2019 (with provisos) meaning their retail price target should be met.

Nothing do with them being cheap or believing both Phil/Bloomberg.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

One X was $500. Thinking anything less is delusional neogaf crap. XSX will NOT be cheaper than $500, it will not be cheaper than One X. I took you all as brighter than this (my bad). Stop frothing at the mouth and use your heads.

XSX will be $500 or more.

No wonder that XSX gonna be near $550-600 but we were more likely discussing PS5's appreach as $500 for them is very doable if the bloomberg rumors hold any truth.

 

[devilNprada]

Does the summer start June 20th? I don't know my seasons, LOL. For MS I think pre-orders open on June 7 - 9th depending on when MS delivers their conference.

So I think by not going to E3 sony has to do it that first week in June... I assume they would not be cocksuckers and do it during E3, and should have it done by E3.

 

[Fake]

You're confusing me, Fake. The string of thoughts with my posts was about the BOM cost and that Phil was saying he was happy at what component costs were coming in at in mid-2019 (with provisos) meaning their retail price target should be met.

Nothing do with them being cheap or believing both Phil/Bloomberg.

 

[JAMMA]

.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

So I think by not going to E3 sony has to do it that first week in June... I assume they would not be cocksuckers and do it during E3, and should have it done by E3.

They can be cocksuckers, they're not new to that, and might try to deflate the Xbox hype bubble right after E3 with more time to strike back. Sony can get sarcastic at times:

 

[Neo Blaster]

I think the only time PS got beaten by Xbox in terms of power is with the XOX.

Xbox OG was more powerful than PS2, and although Cell was a beast, Xbox 360's Xenos GPU was stronger than PS3's RSX.

 

[Mendou]

I think they should have two different price points but just for storage. Stores can have the cheaper 1tb SSD models and then they can sell a more expensive 1.5 or 2tb SSD model

They did that with the PS3 by having a starting price of $500. People forget that and instantly call it the $600 console because it had a higher-tier storage option.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

So here’s my guess as of this moment.

$600 XSX
$500 PS5

Both are also worth that, so don’t whine no matter which camp you sit in. How much was that stupid phone that you’re browsing this on right now?

You mean they'll represent their power at that pricetag? Not sure if Phil Specner can report back to Microsoft that he's willing to eat a loss on every console and continue as the CEO of Xbox, he'll simply get sacked in the morning. Sony can do that and might attempt it even if they have the more powerful console, just to crush the competition. PlayStation is backed by Sony, Xbox is not backed by MS and could get axed and in no position to gamble on prices:

Bill Gates hints that Microsoft could sell off its Xbox division

Bill Gates, Microsoft's newly appointed 'technical advisor,' has reignited the perennial debate about whether Microsoft should sell off its Xbox and Bing businesses. For years, analysts and investors have leaned on Microsoft to sell off the loss-making Xbox division. With new CEO Satya Nadella...

www.extremetech.com

 

[Neo Blaster]

Xbox fans now

Care to elaborate?

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

or this:

It'll inspire them to get a sex change? That's a next gen feature I didn't expect

 

[DaGwaphics]

That's the stupid subject I probably ignore about almost the entire thread. Xbox One X launch at $500 with a fucking JAGUAR CPU. How they can believe a machine with a Ryzen CPU, SSD and RT, when Ryzen is in a universe ahead the Jaguar, could make the seX cost, IDK, $399?

It's important to note that what is on the APU (Jaguar/Zen etc.) is not that important to cost. It's the cost of the chip based on yields and the cost of fab process used. The One X was $500 in 2017, that's an important distinction. In 2017 a 1TB 7200 RPM spinners was $100 retail (at 2.5"), guess what price a 1TB SSD is now on the lower end. Obviously, MS doesn't pay retail, but as an example it shows trends. More information is needed, to make an accurate price assumption, than is currently available. How many GDDR6 chips are we talking about, and at what density (a 2GB GGDR6 module is <= in cost today when compared a 1GB GGDR5 chip in 2017 from most volume suppliers)? Many questions.

$500 or $600 could certainly be in the realm of possibility, I wouldn't rule it out. But I wouldn't mandate it just yet either.