ethomaz
Banned
Yeap.
Geometry Engine is the name AMD use while Mesh Sharders are the name used by nVidia and MS.
It does the same functions... when you use Mesh Shaders in DX API it will utilize Geometry Engine in AMD hardware.
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Geometry Engine is the name AMD use while Mesh Sharders are the name used by nVidia and MS.
It does the same functions... when you use Mesh Shaders in DX API it will utilize Geometry Engine in AMD hardware.
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
Exactly, follow the entire discussion please. My point is that "not being for everybody" is not only about games coming from crazy son of a bitches. Entire genres are not for everybody and some games that in the past were declared "not for everybody" now are declared as masterpieces.
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ThisIsMyDog
Member
were any new rumors about date when sony is gonna show us PS5 games?
Agnostic2020
Member
130 is not the correct math lol
PS5 ssd is 230% of XSX:
100% of 1 is 1
200% of 1 is 2: 200X1/100=2
230% of 2.4 is 5.5: 230X2.4/100=5.5
however you can say PS5 SSD is 130% faster than XSX:
2.4+(130X2.4/100)=5.5
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VanSiriusGabriel
Member
Likely after June and Ghost of Tsushima.
They don't want their PS4 exclusives look bad. Maybe some tech demos before that.
ethomaz
Banned
It can reach 22GB/s with Kraken compression is very few cases.
On real cases it avg. at 8-9GB/s with compression.
Maybe 220% is using that peak I don’t know.
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draliko
Member
This is not how math works... A thing 100% faster is the double of the other...
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LokusAbriss
Member
When there is such a tiny gap between the two consoles, why do people argue that the SSD in the PS5 is such a game changer?
Looks to me that maybe third party devs can't use that faster ssd to full potential or that its faster speed doesnt really matter that much.
Agnostic2020
Member
i edited for complete picture and it 100% is lol
llien
Member
You guys do not seem to be following.
People with faster SSDs existed for a while.
But games were still designed with "I won't be able to load it quickly".
And what I'm asking is, who, out there, somewhere, thinks that developers who do cross platform games, will design levels for PS5 SSD specifically, as opposed to going with most common denominator (or even below, if also targeting PCs)???
You seriously think game devs will load lower res textures on an XSeX?
Nothing PS5 specific there.
22GB is how much controller could theoretically pipe through.
A totally irrelevant, made up, nobody gives a fuck about figure, that has nothing to do with neither 5.5GB/s raw throughtput nor expected, let me be generous, twice that much of uncompressed throughtpout.
120% higher.
Agnostic2020
Member
exactly what i wrote
depends how u say the sentence,
100% faster or 200% of
both are same
draliko
Member
No its not the same, but I give up... As I said reason has long left this place. Have fun guys
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
A multiplat dev was questioned why he was more excited by the PS5:
Evidence is mounting, PS5 pushing industry forward, Series X just like a sequel to One X, with all its games on PC
Evidence is mounting, PS5 pushing industry forward, Series X just like a sequel to One X, with all its games on PC
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Agnostic2020
Member
it is 100% correct what i wrote
A is 100% faster than B or A is 200% of B in speed. both same thing
u need to study math bro
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
Look, srly.A multiplat dev was questioned why he was more excited by the PS5:
Evidence is mounting, PS5 pushing industry forward, Series X just like a sequel to One X, with all its games on PC
I'm gonna buy PS5 unless is fucking broken, I don't want to lose the exclusives, the eastern titles, friends and VR, nor the pad which I'm abituated with.
But devs are humans: depending on what they do and how they prefer to do it, some will prefer SeX and some PS5. We can stay here all day posting people declaring their preferences.
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Mr Moose
Member
Interesting. PS5 (dev kit at least) is a bit bigger than the Series X big box? Or the dev kit? Edit: He said dev kit right? The Series X dev kit is kinda small.A multiplat dev was questioned why he was more excited by the PS5:
Evidence is mounting, PS5 pushing industry forward, Series X just like a sequel to One X, with all its games on PC
Small difference between the two? (assuming PS5 stays at 10.3TF? 17.5% difference or less?).
The CPU and SSDs in these next gen machines are massive leaps over this gen, can't fucking wait. What they did this gen on those shitty CPUs is pretty damn good.
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Now suddenly it doesn't matter, yet back in 2013 and on forth it was "ZOMG THE XBONELESS IS 720P 30 FPS OH NONONONO"
Looking at the chart, it can be interpreted as it does matter, the Saturn was the worst at 3D which took over the market, the PS1 was the mid power and easiest to code, the 64 was the most powerful, but it used cartridges (lack of space for assets).
The Xbox came in fall 2001, the PS2 had a year and plus on the market with closing 20 million units, considering that it had the same near monopoly share like the PS1 on market and games, also it was more powerful than the DC, needless to say what happened... But one thing to remember is that the Xbox in 04 was starting to overtake the PS2 in monthly sales, and that was before Halo 2.
The PS3 was more powerful in raw terms, but thanks to its design, the X360 ended up being the most powerful.
BatSu
Member
My man, he young here
And that with 1.84 TF ...
Do people really care about only having 9 or 10 Tf?
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
no the cpu stuff is separate. That uses AMD's smart shift technology to use unused power from the cpu to the gpu so they can render a few more pixels.
what cerny is doing with this variable clock stuff is something completely different. hes using a built in power control system to throttle down the cpu AND the gpu based on ingame activity. not based on what the other part of the apu is doing. again, there is smart shift and there is the power control feature cerny put in. we simply dont know what its going to run at. all we can do is take his word for it and assume that its only going down 2% in the worst case scenario but like i said, i wanna see the receipts.
your reading comprehension skills are a bit lacking. im not saying his engineering skills are as bad as penello's. the comparison im making between the two has to do with the PR they are both spinning. this was cerny an engineer doing PR work. there was more spinning here than in a ballet routine.
- 3 ghz induces so many headaches, they decided to go with a completely different sysem. MS and of course AMD with discrete zen 2 chips had no such headaches.
- cerny all of a sudden likes higher clocks now? he literally said that. i like higher clocks vs more CUs. the same guy who made an 800mhz and 911 mhz GPUs.
- 36 cu at higher clocks have better performance than 48 cus at lower clocks. again, pure spin. ms has 52 cus. come launch, i can promise you sony wouldnt have higher resolution and framerate.
there were more excuses and qualifiers in that presentation than in that legendary albert penello post where he said they invented directx. tflops are a dangerous comparison. he said that. lmao.
pasterpl
Member
show me where does it say this?
T-I-N-M-A-N dX
Member
So question about PS5 and SSD? So with its speeds and ability to bridge the gap, does this raise questions about its durability/reliability for a console generation?
it_wasn't_me
Banned
Yep. Found that post recently, pretty good tidbits.
Okay guys, this is getting silly now, XSX is a great console. PS5 is a great console. XSX has more graphical power than PS5. That is fact, how much will it manifest in real world performance ? Probably an insignificant amount(Tiny bit more resolutions, tiny bit more FPS, realistically nothing anyone can discern with the naked eye).
Now I know Microsoft is not really well liked, but can we give credit where credit is due? They’ve made a great console focused 100% on gamers, no gimmicks no bullshit. They’re showing a real commitment to making games. Do we really want them to fail? Just imagine tomorrow MS decides to bin the gaming division and we’re left only with PlayStation and Nintendo, who is that good for? Not you or me I’ll tell you that right now.
Now I get that most people will only get one console(myself included), and so they have to turn this into a sports thing with teams and winners and losers. But it isn’t. We should all go to the dedicated Xbox/PS5 threads, each to which ever console they think they’re likely to get, and discuss all the new gameplay ideas that this gen will enable and how the tech can be used to create new experiences. I think that’s more interesting of a discussion.
Now I know Microsoft is not really well liked, but can we give credit where credit is due? They’ve made a great console focused 100% on gamers, no gimmicks no bullshit. They’re showing a real commitment to making games. Do we really want them to fail? Just imagine tomorrow MS decides to bin the gaming division and we’re left only with PlayStation and Nintendo, who is that good for? Not you or me I’ll tell you that right now.
Now I get that most people will only get one console(myself included), and so they have to turn this into a sports thing with teams and winners and losers. But it isn’t. We should all go to the dedicated Xbox/PS5 threads, each to which ever console they think they’re likely to get, and discuss all the new gameplay ideas that this gen will enable and how the tech can be used to create new experiences. I think that’s more interesting of a discussion.
Audiophile
Member
(64 GiB * 1.024^3 = 68.7194767 GB Per Chip) * 12 Channels = 824.633721 GB
Hence "825GB".
This is nothing new: bigger, rounder numbers and "GB" are easier to market than random numbers and "GiB". And seeing as file sizes and storage capacity have been conveyed to the user in this manner for years, it's generally better not to confuse people at this point. The numbers are different but the proportions remain the same.
Hence "825GB".
This is nothing new: bigger, rounder numbers and "GB" are easier to market than random numbers and "GiB". And seeing as file sizes and storage capacity have been conveyed to the user in this manner for years, it's generally better not to confuse people at this point. The numbers are different but the proportions remain the same.
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Kumomeme
Member
LOL all these fight lol ..there even people try spinning cerny word about tf lol
i predict for 3rd party title will perform bit better on xsx in term of resolution especially fps much like ps4 pro vs x1x..but might be more about fps than resolution though..i believe ps5 also should had no problem hitting 4k but the differences might be 4k30fps vs 4k60fps on xsx...on bright side, this is not bad at all unlike ps4 vs x1 at beginning of current gen...this time there no situation of subpar 1080p like on x1 where there even game running on 792p lol....next gen might be not that bad..both atleast should be able to hit decent resolution required be it 4k, 1440p or even 1800p...both console also will have atleast equal level of details as xsx with its extra horse power while ps5 had blazing fast ssd to cover bit of the gap...RT is another story we dont know how ps5 gonna actually do that. which is on the moment xsx had advantages over extra cu...but who know? all these secret sauce talk circling around
in the end, it all about game...nintendo for example had their first party studio to showcase the potential despite end result not always be 'desireble' due to their weaker console...botw for example not even running 1080p on docked but who care? the game is awesome and visual is pretty due to art style..people end up praising the game, didnt bother to bring much about how less resolution and fps is..all is 'forgiven' as long they can output awesome game...in this aspect luckly sony had their own reputable first party for it, much like nintendo..i believe this is might be one of aspect ms failed last gen with x1...although inferior to ps4, if they had great game, people wont much bother to the weaker specs even the game tailored to the weaker specs at first place...other than halo and gears, what else? scalebound end up cancelled instead...not to mention their game even available on pc which 'hurt' x1 more...this time, next gen ms seems had upperhand in hardware despite all the talk about ps5 secret sauce lol..general audience who doesnt had decent knowledge other than '10tf vs 12tf' doesnt care about ssd and stuff...all their care is game...this time hopefully ms step up their game..bring first party game that will showcase what xsx can do hopefully lockhart not exist and devs no need to developed for x1 as lowest denominator even for first 2 years lol
i predict for 3rd party title will perform bit better on xsx in term of resolution especially fps much like ps4 pro vs x1x..but might be more about fps than resolution though..i believe ps5 also should had no problem hitting 4k but the differences might be 4k30fps vs 4k60fps on xsx...on bright side, this is not bad at all unlike ps4 vs x1 at beginning of current gen...this time there no situation of subpar 1080p like on x1 where there even game running on 792p lol....next gen might be not that bad..both atleast should be able to hit decent resolution required be it 4k, 1440p or even 1800p...both console also will have atleast equal level of details as xsx with its extra horse power while ps5 had blazing fast ssd to cover bit of the gap...RT is another story we dont know how ps5 gonna actually do that. which is on the moment xsx had advantages over extra cu...but who know? all these secret sauce talk circling around
in the end, it all about game...nintendo for example had their first party studio to showcase the potential despite end result not always be 'desireble' due to their weaker console...botw for example not even running 1080p on docked but who care? the game is awesome and visual is pretty due to art style..people end up praising the game, didnt bother to bring much about how less resolution and fps is..all is 'forgiven' as long they can output awesome game...in this aspect luckly sony had their own reputable first party for it, much like nintendo..i believe this is might be one of aspect ms failed last gen with x1...although inferior to ps4, if they had great game, people wont much bother to the weaker specs even the game tailored to the weaker specs at first place...other than halo and gears, what else? scalebound end up cancelled instead...not to mention their game even available on pc which 'hurt' x1 more...this time, next gen ms seems had upperhand in hardware despite all the talk about ps5 secret sauce lol..general audience who doesnt had decent knowledge other than '10tf vs 12tf' doesnt care about ssd and stuff...all their care is game...this time hopefully ms step up their game..bring first party game that will showcase what xsx can do hopefully lockhart not exist and devs no need to developed for x1 as lowest denominator even for first 2 years lol
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Apollo Helios
Member
Yeah I played upwards of 240hrs and loved nearly every minute of it. I don't care what anybody says about the 'walking' nature of the game but the game mechanics were beyond anything released on that front and the gameplay was extremely fun and satisfying. There are some Japanese quirkiness in the story and cinematics but as soon as I remembered in the past me watching Neon Genesis Evangelion, I got in the mood for it any everything became two layered and metaphorical in meaning so that I just witnessed stuff unfolding in game but I was thinking what does it mean in the back of my head all the time which is the correct approach to playing all Kojima games.
Yup. But also there are instances of harkening to familial bonds and how it shapes not just our own reality but actually the whole reality as well. The game is not just open to any base interpretation (if this means that then it can mean anything blah blah - basic approach of stupid ppl) but instead open to informed discourse in reading the meaning behind entertainment and stories.
Dude did anyone took a good look at the full goddamn paper?? It is a treasure trove and most definitely will be the cooling in the retail console, if not already in DevKits...
Is there a thread specifically for this? It needs one.
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
I mean in the game you may start collecting packages everywhere, accepting more deliveries than you can carry, putting you in dangerous situations just to get a side quest done and stealing shit to other people.
Congratulations: you have become a mule.
It really succeeds in make its world real because you can become what you see in the game.
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saintjules
Member
Still waiting. Godfall was the only PS5 game mentioning they would show more this Spring. God only knows when.
Gamernyc78
Banned
Right lol as killzone fans we detested tht arcade feel of other shooters. Secondly it didn't stop lens of truth and Digital foundry from comparing the two and it wasnt even close in meta or in breakdowns, killzone 2 swept it.
Edgy response but again Halo meh in graphics side of things, those bullshots thy use to release were hilarious once you got the game.
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VanSiriusGabriel
Member
I'm a Killzone fan too, but I just find way more impressive that a 60 fps shooter can totally wipe the floor with Halo, despite being also a multiplat while Killzone is a exclusive.
ID and ID Tech 7 are something else.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Wandering Leopard
Member
I think it's too early, games like The Last of Us 2 and Ghosts of Tsushima haven't been released yet.
Guerrilla Games will probably be the first of Sony's first party studios to show something; and then maybe (2nd party in this case) Blue Point will show what they've been working on.
At the very least some in engine tech demos would be nice :/
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Aceofspades
Banned
I want Sony to show us the console and DS5.
nikolino840
Member
Audiophile
Member
Most people don't know what they want til they experience it.
There's a difference between hearing audio and being placed in the soundscape itself; Sony's solution takes care of every link in the chain to achieve this.
The audio angle is a riskier move as it's harder to market, as are the benefits of a super fast, parallel and granular SSD beyond loading times. But at least Sony are pushing literal game changers, things that fundamentally move the industry forward. Even when most of those advantages will only be seen by consumers in First Party titles.
Without a doubt, MS' marketing has been way better so far and they have the advantage of more compute width. But the real-world performance differential that will likely amount to will be something like ~2034p vs ~2160p.
You can prefer whichever you like, no judgement, no ill will meant.
But to me, what Sony's doing is fundamentally more important moving forward and the compromises they had to make to achieve them within their budget/thermal/power constraints are more than worth it. I feel like MS are more concerned with hitting TF numbers.
Again, that's fine if that's where your priorities lie. When it comes to getting that last bit of quality out of something I've been on the receiving end of plenty of confusion and ridicule in my life for my ethos when collecting movies and music....
For movies I have to get the absolute best transfer and master with the best bitrate on the best format. With music I'll look for the best mix+master and then try and find that on the best format possible. This can result in hours of research and comparison simply because I care about mass-archival and preservation, I care about experiencing content as faithfully as possible, effectively as intended by its creators; or at least true to an original release.
...So yeah, I understand about wanting the very best possible, but games are multifaceted and compromises have to be made. The negligible compromises Sony made are worth it.
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
Because 448GB/s is mated with at least 9GB/s (up to 22GB/s) compared to 560GB/s tied to 4.8GB/s (up to 6GB/s).
The 448GB/s can transfer much more bigger data faster than 560GB/s.
We still need to see it in practice.
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
Both Cerny and the guy ho designed SeX are probably facepalming to death with all the memes around this power/speed shit lol
DrDamn
Member
If the alternative is variable clocks you can't predict or rely on then yes, obviously, however if the alternative is allowing developers with a game well within it's CPU budget to reassign some of the power budget to GPU and help there then that's good isn't it? It's flexibility.
Gamernyc78
Banned
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
your math is right but your conclusions are wrong.
5.5 is indeed roughly 230% of 2.5, but it doesnt mean the ps5 ssd is 230% faster than the xbox ssd. when you say something is a 100% faster, you are saying something is 2x faster. 2.5 * 2 = 5gb. so the ps5 ssd is roughly 2x or 100% faster than the xbox series x.
math sucks.
CJY
Banned
PS5 SSD is 129% faster than XSX SSD
XSX SSD is 56% slower than PS5 SSD
PS5 SSD speed is 229% of XSX's SSD speed
XSX SSD speed is 43% of PS5's SSD speed
All different ways of saying the same thing
Agnostic2020
Member
Haha From my quote :
"however you can say PS5 SSD is 130% faster than XSX"
230% speed of
130% faster than
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VanSiriusGabriel
Member
Absolutely true. Average people generally want the same thing but moar, that's it. Take this thing I know so well and I'm accustomend with, and add X. That's it.
The average gamer would take a 20 TFs console still with HDD and say "woah it's 20x more powerful tha PS4, giant leap!".
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