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[OmegaSupreme]

Good luck building a PC with the same specs under $500.

Steal from a Microcenter. Easy.

 

[ThatGamingDude]

That is absolutely not true most assets nowadays are expensive already id say even more expensive cause you have to design in zbrush then make lods for each assets then start programming how youll load them into memory its alot of hastle amd wastage of money that goes to work with low memory more time than to work with more memory ask any developer and hell tell you more ram is needed, its the reason theyve put super fast ssds in the first place,

Games take years and money to be finalised because developers are still working around how to fit stuff in memory they go into iterations and iteration and iterations just for that your absolutely wrong here.

Your obvious misunderstandings about how hardware and software are showing

Might want to zip that back up

Anyways, like other people have said, if you want that crafted peak performance, then purchase the product that does so, a PC
Consoles have been, and likely always will be, a cheap-working-out-of-the-box-solution for gamers

Much like those cell phones you keep going on about

Keep this in mind when you bring up these sorts of topics:
It is always easy to argue for more, but it is not so easy to argue WHY it needs more
Figure out your WHY before you bring up the topic, eh?

 

[Elektro Demon]

Good luck building a PC with the same specs under $500.

Don't be a plonker.
You could build a 1k usd pc that will last you the entire next gen. It pays off in the long run along with many other perks of being a pc gamer.
Games are cheaper if you buy cd keys and know where to look. This is something that really pays off and not just clicking buy on steam.

 

[Shangounchained]

Your obvious misunderstandings about how hardware and software are showing

Might want to zip that back up

Anyways, like other people have said, if you want that crafted peak performance, then purchase the product that does so, a PC
Consoles have been, and likely always will be, a cheap-working-out-of-the-box-solution for gamers

Much like those cell phones you keep going on about

Keep this in mind when you bring up these sorts of topics:
It is always easy to argue for more, but it is not so easy to argue WHY it needs more
Figure out your WHY before you bring up the topic, eh?

Go ask any developer and youll heere what they tell you its always about memory,

The thing about pc is that it will always be held back with consoles so there is no point getting a pc itll be 10x expensive anyway for the same performance and for what i have a 1080p tv its fine for me consoles will already easily output 60fps its the base consoles that i care about.

 

[Shangounchained]

Don't be a plonker.
You could build a 1k usd pc that will last you the entire next gen. It pays off in the long run along with many other perks of being a pc gamer.
Games are cheaper if you buy cd keys and know where to look. This is something that really pays off and not just clicking buy on steam.

You cant build a 1000$ pc thatll last you the whole next gen 1000$ isnt even enough for a gpu to rival the series x

 

[Elektro Demon]

You cant build a 1000$ pc thatll last you the whole next gen 1000$ isnt even enough for a gpu to rival the series x

That's sad if you actually believe that. You ain't getting 2080ti levels of performance in your next gen 500 buck box, son.

 

[Ballthyrm]

What you are seing OP is the law of diminishing returns.

Graphics are just not going to jump like they used to.

The next big leap is probably once we get realistic lighting with smooth path-tracing as we get better and better hardware to support it and it gets implemented in game engine.
Right now that stuff barely runs on anything smoothly.

This is not lazyness or whatever words you want to use, it's just how the whole silicon industry is doing.
Now revolution will have to be done on Architecture design and not just on transistor density.

Most of the "gains" console manufacturer had before was just Moore's law, they haven't become more lazy than before.
If anything they are trying harder now than they use to because they need to reinvent how to design consoles, hence the totally new architecture we are seeing.

 

[FranXico]

Dude, does 12TF sound like an excuse to you?

 

[CuteFaceJay]

The systems gonna have 16GB of VRAM? I only have 6GB in my GPU

 

[ThatGamingDude]

Go ask any developer and youll heere what they tell you its always about memory,

Sure, I'll go get up from my desk and go talk to my developer about it at work
Oh wait....I don't need to because I understand how hardware and software interacts, and development life cycles
(I don't work in games, but I do work in IT)

The thing about pc is that it will always be held back with consoles so there is no point getting a pc itll be 10x expensive anyway for the same performance and for what i have a 1080p tv its fine for me consoles will already easily output 60fps its the base consoles that i care about.

Hey there, with that big brain of yours and how much money you seem to have, seems like you found a niche market to create a product for!

Go out there and create a new hardware platform for gamers that appeal to consumers and developers for your product
If not, you have your available solutions, take 'em or leave 'em.

 

[Shangounchained]

That's sad if you actually believe that. You ain't getting 2080ti levels of performance in your next gen 500 buck box, son.

Gears 5 was already running at 100fps ultra + global illumination and other settings better than the 2080ti it even outperformed the 2080 ti in mesh shading. Plus 2080ti has 11gb vram the series x is 16gb

 

[mckmas8808]

I wouldn't say for the next 7 years, they will no doubt release a PS5 pro in the middle of it's life cycle.

You guys are acting as if 7 year gens are normal. Normally after 5-6 years EVERY console generation in history starts to show its age. This is normal!

 

[Elektro Demon]

Gears 5 was already running at 100fps ultra + global illumination and other settings better than the 2080ti it even outperformed the 2080 ti in mesh shading. Plus 2080ti has 11gb vram the series x is 16gb

Gears 5 is nothing special in terms of graphics so I don't see that as an astounding feat.
When I see Metro Exodus or any other big open world game running on ultra + raytracing, then we'll talk.
I'm just preparing you so you don't get dissapointed. There's no way in hell you're getting that much performance out of a 500 dollar plastic box. You should be lucky if you get to rx 5700 levels of performance. I even doubt that, but we'll see.

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

Don't be a plonker.
You could build a 1k usd pc that will last you the entire next gen. It pays off in the long run along with many other perks of being a pc gamer.
Games are cheaper if you buy cd keys and know where to look. This is something that really pays off and not just clicking buy on steam.

I have GOG as my main platform for games but still dont see how anyone would think PC gaming is a financially viable way to play the best games out there.

 

[Danjin44]

The power the console is irrelevant to me, I buy new console for new games and as long as they give me the games I enjoy then I’m happy regardless how weak or powerful the system actually is.

 

[Shangounchained]

Sure, I'll go get up from my desk and go talk to my developer about it at work
Oh wait....I don't need to because I understand how hardware and software interacts, and development life cycles
(I don't work in games, but I do work in IT)


Hey there, with that big brain of yours and how much money you seem to have, seems like you found a niche market to create a product for!

Go out there and create a new hardware platform for gamers that appeal to consumers and developers for your product
If not, you have your available solutions, take 'em or leave 'em.

I work in games and graphics i have been working with graphics for years and memory has always been the bottleneck, its the reason you have loading screens its the reason you have lods, its the reason you have elevators corners and slow walking horses in adventure games and its the reason your even seeing a polygon on screen,

If you cant ask a developer go and watch behind the scenes or making of videos all games are made with a memory budget doesnt matter how fast your machine is what youll experience is whats in the memory budget. And most time in development infact most innovations in gaming are all centered around ways to deal with memory budgets, its the pain in the ass and now even more than ever the had to get fast ssds.

 

[ThatGamingDude]

I work in games and graphics i have been working with graphics for years and memory has always been the bottleneck, its the reason you have loading screens its the reason you have lods, its the reason you have elevators corners and slow walking horses in adventure games and its the reason your even seeing a polygon on screen,

If you cant ask a developer go and watch behind the scenes or making of videos all games are made with a memory budget doesnt matter how fast your machine is what youll experience is whats in the memory budget. And most time in development infact most innovations in gaming are all centered around ways to deal with memory budgets, its the pain in the ass and now even more than ever the had to get fast ssds.

Can we get a mod to vet this please?

 

[Shangounchained]

Sad thing is well all get a new console anyway

 

[Shangounchained]

Gears 5 is nothing special in terms of graphics so I don't see that as an astounding feat.
When I see Metro Exodus or any other big open world game running on ultra + raytracing, then we'll talk.
I'm just preparing you so you don't get dissapointed. There's no way in hell you're getting that much performance out of a 500 dollar plastic box. You should be lucky if you get to rx 5700 levels of performance. I even doubt that, but we'll see.

Brav it seems your not understanding if the series x already beats a 2080ti on gears 5 a 60fps designed game itll beat the 2080ti in any game even more vigorously.

 

[Elektro Demon]

Brav it seems your not understanding if the series x already beats a 2080ti on gears 5 a 60fps designed game itll beat the 2080ti in any game even more vigorously.

No it seems to me that you're buying into the hype.

 

[Shangounchained]

No it seems to me that you're buying into the hype.

Its not hype they the console was fucking runnig gears at 4k 100fps with ultra + raytraced gi + other settings its mathematics not religioua hype

 

[Elektro Demon]

Its not hype they the console was fucking runnig gears at 4k 100fps with ultra + raytraced gi + other settings its mathematics not religioua hype

So they say. Who says it's not fake?

 

[ThatGamingDude]

I work in games and graphics i have been working with graphics for years and memory has always been the bottleneck, its the reason you have loading screens its the reason you have lods, its the reason you have elevators corners and slow walking horses in adventure games and its the reason your even seeing a polygon on screen,

If you cant ask a developer go and watch behind the scenes or making of videos all games are made with a memory budget doesnt matter how fast your machine is what youll experience is whats in the memory budget. And most time in development infact most innovations in gaming are all centered around ways to deal with memory budgets, its the pain in the ass and now even more than ever the had to get fast ssds.

Alright alright, I'll nod to you being a dev

I come from the server side; so I'm sure you've heard this before

The issue is not my hardware, but the code utilizing my hardware. The hardware was designed for the tasks to a certain scale, and we can not account for the software beyond that scale.
You will need to code more efficiently or look for another platform solution for your software product

If AAA studios can do it, it is possible on the hardware.
Your coding issue is not my hardware issue.

And at that, I remove my watch from the thread; have a good one explaining why you want 256GB of RAM for entertainment software

 

[longdi]

A week isolated at home has made me realise this, with all do respect i absolutely understand both sony and ms worked hard to deliver us the up coming next gen consoles but!

Yes theyve included super fast ssds and technology to efficiently deal with data to which most of the inventions like mesh shading, vrs, even the ssd was all mostly because they knew they couldnt afford enough vram in this machines,

Everybody online celebrated this new fancy techs , but they didnt see the skeletons hiding in the closet as to why both sony and microsoft are talking more about ssd speeds and poor mans tricks to work with low vram budgets.

I hate to say it but 10 teraflops 16gb doesnt cut it for me especially when were talking about a "PLAYSTATION 5." And i feel they had to cut this costs just because little johny in neogaf and twitter wants a ps5 at 399$ at the end we are all getting cheap hardware on ps5 thats going to be around with us in 7 years because of little whinny penny pincher johny.

Thats all folks dont know how u feel but the cheap buzz words about dx12,vrs, dynamic res, machine learning all sound to me like a poor mans excuse for low performance.

TBF, last gen was even worse, from Xenos and Cell to jaguar cpu and low range gpu.

I have same feels about PS5 though. That Cerny $399 dreams is holding games back.

Series X would be perfect if MS went with 20gb ram of full 520gb/s bandwidth.

In the end, MS is still the shining knight of the upcoming gen.

 

[Clarissa]

Can ya'll just enjoy your next gen console when it arrives without overthinking things?

The games will be good no matter if you're an Xbox or Playstation supporter!! That's the most important thing right?

 

[Esppiral]

I'd say Ps4 and Xbox One has been the most lame, uninspired and cheapest console generation/jump this industry has seen in a looking time.

Ps5 and XbSX both look promising.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Don't forget that external SSD. Probably be $100 minimum.

 

[WouldYouKindly]

So buy the series x then? Like does this place not have mods anymore. This isnt a next gen thread it's a yet another sony sucks thread we get it its weaker. Theres a simple solution to your problem dont buy it.

 

[donfonzie]

All this talk of teraflops and SSDs does not mean anything to the average gamer. Both companies need to show some games to build up the excitement for the new consoles.

 

[Shangounchained]

I'd say Ps4 and Xbox One has been the most lame, uninspired and cheapest console generation/jump this industry has seen in a looking time.

Ps5 and XbSX both look promising.

512mb to 8gb thats a 16x jump now its 8gb to 16gb more like a kid and his brother it used to be a kid and his father

 

[Von Hugh]

Keep up the good work OP, those windmills will submit to you eventually.

 

[Shangounchained]

Alright alright, I'll nod to you being a dev

I come from the server side; so I'm sure you've heard this before

The issue is not my hardware, but the code utilizing my hardware. The hardware was designed for the tasks to a certain scale, and we can not account for the software beyond that scale.
You will need to code more efficiently or look for another platform solution for your software product

If AAA studios can do it, it is possible on the hardware.
Your coding issue is not my hardware issue.

And at that, I remove my watch from the thread; have a good one explaining why you want 256GB of RAM for entertainment software

There is never enough ram for games yoh always need more mempry there isnt a rule in computing that says you dont need more than 10gb or 250gb, if you said you want 8gb of ram 20 years ago youll be lynched in public for talking blasphemy so dont be silly.

Every console generation has always had more memory this isnt just because they can afford it its simply because of more realism, from 8bits to 16bits to ps1s 2mb and ps2s 32mb its the memory that holds the graphics, sounds and everything your interacting with the processors are simply their to work with memory,

And as for any generation more memory is what defines how the games will look like and ever since ps1 weve had a jump of 16x hence last gen consoles 512mb to ps4s 8gb naturally we should be getting 128gb only reason we couldnt is economics, they simply cant afford the cost itll be 4000$ if they put 128gb this is why they went with 16gb and ssds as virtual memory as some compensation or excuse of not reaching that target.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

I have GOG as my main platform for games but still dont see how anyone would think PC gaming is a financially viable way to play the best games out there.

Upfront costs aside. Games are always cheaper. They are often discounted quickly and heavily after six months or so. Not to mention free online(outside of subscription games). It depends how hardcore you want to go I suppose.

 

[Clarissa]

Aso

512mb to 8gb thats a 16x jump now its 8gb to 16gb more like a kid and his brother it used to be a kid and his father

So you expected 128gb ram? You know quality of games is not related to how much ram you have in your console right?

 

[Shangounchained]

So they say. Who says it's not fake?

Ok so you keep hoping its fake pray to all your gods its fake and hope a miracle happens that its fake cause thats all you have to hold on to now

 

[DoctaThompson]

Gears 5 was already running at 100fps ultra + global illumination and other settings better than the 2080ti it even outperformed the 2080 ti in mesh shading. Plus 2080ti has 11gb vram the series x is 16gb

Gears 5 was running around 1080p for that benchmark. Not impressive at all for such a low resolution. Definitely no where near 2080 TI levels. There's an obvious reason there is video and proof of everything BUT that.

Common sense alone should tell you something is suspicious, when Minecraft is dropping below 30fps @1080p with raytracing. Do you wonder why Nvidia's version runs at high framerate, high resolution, and looks a night and day better than what Microsoft presented?

If you want the best of the best, get pc. Otherwise you can choose between either console. But like Elektro Demon said, you aren't getting anywhere near 2080 TI levels of performance for a fraction of the cost of the gpu alone.

 

[Shangounchained]

Aso

So you expected 128gb ram? You know quality of games is not related to how much ram you have in your console right?

Quality of games is related to ram it always has always will be, what you see onscreen is data, data is whats ram. Doesnt matter how good an artist you are you need enough memory/canvas to display your paintings

 

[Shangounchained]

Gears 5 was running around 1080p for that benchmark. Not impressive at all for such a low resolution. Definitely no where near 2080 TI levels. There's an obvious reason there is video and proof of everything BUT that.

Common sense alone should tell you something is suspicious, when Minecraft is dropping below 30fps @1080p with raytracing. Do you wonder why Nvidia's version runs at high framerate, high resolution, and looks a night and day better than what Microsoft presented?

If you want the best of the best, get pc. Otherwise you can choose between either console. But like Elektro Demon said, you aren't getting anywhere near 2080 TI levels of performance for a fraction of the cost of the gpu alone.

The benchmark was 4k 100fps even digital foundry said it, and the minecraft on series x wasnt rastwrised like the one on pc it was full on raytracing not rasterised

 

[OmegaSupreme]

Not sure what you expected op? Your getting pretty damn capable machines for a hopefully good price. You'll be playing triple AAA games at 4k60. There's only so much performance you can put in a relatively small box and keep the thermals and costs down enough for average joe and mom to afford.

 

[PPIMystaceus]

A Phone is essential but people buy a new iphone every year this isnt essential people buy shoes for 400$ since when is this essential and a console to which we all love and admire and will be with us provide fun for friends and family for years should cost 399$ ive had a 70$ used phone for a year this is essential not buying 1500$ iphone just to use snapchat and pornhub and call it essential.

Most people are not buying new flagship phones every year. Same with people who buy $400 shoes. You're taking a small minority of richer people and extrapolating it to the average population.

 

[DoctaThompson]

The benchmark was 4k 100fps even digital foundry said it, and the minecraft on series x wasnt rastwrised like the one on pc it was full on raytracing not rasterised

No they did not. They did not specifically say benchmarked @4k with framerates better than a $2500 USD gpu. Please think with logic here, and not fanboyism. RTX Titan is not 4x weaker than a console, lol! I hope you are trolling right now, because you are losing any credibility you have left, with your "profession".

 

[Caio]

The XSX is the most impressive console since the original Xbox. The jury is still out for the ps5.

Yep, agreed.

 

[M1chl]

Gears 5 was running around 1080p for that benchmark. Not impressive at all for such a low resolution. Definitely no where near 2080 TI levels. There's an obvious reason there is video and proof of everything BUT that.

Common sense alone should tell you something is suspicious, when Minecraft is dropping below 30fps @1080p with raytracing. Do you wonder why Nvidia's version runs at high framerate, high resolution, and looks a night and day better than what Microsoft presented?

If you want the best of the best, get pc. Otherwise you can choose between either console. But like Elektro Demon said, you aren't getting anywhere near 2080 TI levels of performance for a fraction of the cost of the gpu alone.

Nope.

 

[Jtibh]

Well considering the price hike from 10 to 14 or higher tflop would be around 200 you expect them to sell 700 dollar plus consoles?

Close this thread this is stupid.

I want quality threads about the new consoles.

All this bitching and whining....are you guys in pain or whats all this?

Freakin energy vampires

 

[Fbh]

The upgrade seems pretty decent to me. Between the decent CPU's in both and SSD as a standard it could give some more exciting upgrades to next gen games compared to this gen which was mostly just more of the same but nicer looking.

Consoles are supposed to be relatively affordable, that at and their ease of use is their main advantage. If you want the most powerful hardware possible and you don't mind paying more then go build a PC.

 

[Xenon]

No Id say last gen was worse with the gimped off the shelf laptop processors. This was compounded by the fact that both companies worked with proprietary highly optimized chips before. Sure they were optimizations but it looks like they're really going the extra step this upcoming generation to expand on that and take advantage of all the components. It's pretty obvious that both realize that design as well as power is necessary to stay in the console price point yet offer competitive graphics to the PC.

 

[Elder Legend]

A week isolated at home has made me realise this, with all do respect i absolutely understand both sony and ms worked hard to deliver us the up coming next gen consoles but!

Yes theyve included super fast ssds and technology to efficiently deal with data to which most of the inventions like mesh shading, vrs, even the ssd was all mostly because they knew they couldnt afford enough vram in this machines,

Everybody online celebrated this new fancy techs , but they didnt see the skeletons hiding in the closet as to why both sony and microsoft are talking more about ssd speeds and poor mans tricks to work with low vram budgets.

I hate to say it but 10 teraflops 16gb doesnt cut it for me especially when were talking about a "PLAYSTATION 5." And i feel they had to cut this costs just because little johny in neogaf and twitter wants a ps5 at 399$ at the end we are all getting cheap hardware on ps5 thats going to be around with us in 7 years because of little whinny penny pincher johny.

Thats all folks dont know how u feel but the cheap buzz words about dx12,vrs, dynamic res, machine learning all sound to me like a poor mans excuse for low performance.

This feels like the cheapest jab at not realizing how big and massive the leap is in hardware from this gen to the next compared to the last 2 gens. Ignorance is a bliss, please continue to be so ignorant and uneducated so I can laugh at pathetic posts like these and know who to put on my "laugh at" list. Thanks for the entertainment.

 

[Filippos]

So they say. Who says it's not fake?

DF have seen it and they confirmed that it’s 4K native. What are you talking about?

 

[ipukespiders]

A week isolated at home has made me realise this

It's been a whole week, eh? I can't wait for what comes next.

 

[EverydayBeast]

The casual population makes up a large portion of console fans, and I think there's a psychological effect to seeing a $399 console as being "Cheap" or "low" you shouldn't worry about SONY or Microsoft producing powerful consoles.