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An Open & Honest Conversation about Some Who Leaked The Wrong Specs About PlayStation 5

LED Guy?

Banned
The github leak was obviously the ps5. ruling it out and saying that Matt was right is wrong. No mention of the RT and other bits does not exclude it.

There were leaks before the PS4 reveal that showed that the xbox one was weaker. THey certainly didn't come from Thuway. lol And the OS leaks and problems with party chat were first leaked by CBOAT, not him.

Please list what Klee got right? Before leaving the other place, I was involved in all of the speculation threads, and I don't remenber him getting anything right. I also have no recollection of him hinting at the VGA reveal. Seeing as apparently Microsoft rehearsed one thing, and surprised even the host/organisers by showing what they did. I would love to see everything.
I did not rule out GitHub, I'm saying Matt stating that comment does mean that he wanted us to rule it out because it wasn't conclusive at all, and I can see his stance on this whole thing, because everyone treated that leak as Gospel.

Kleegamefan was right on many things, I'll name some of them off the top of my head.

- Both consoles being double digits in TFLOPS.
- Both consoles being more feature-packed & more powerful than AMD's latest RX 5700 XT.
- PlayStation 5 having way faster SSD than Xbox Series X.
- Xbox Series X being revealed at VGAs, he even said "and this is the day where I will bounce" before anyone knew it.
- Him confirming both consoles are in RDNA TFLOPS when all of us were doubting, he confirmed it multiple times.

There are even other instances which I don't really remember right now.
 
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makaveli60

Member
So I will chime in what happened with my numbers.

I have a pretty good friend who knows more about the Xbox side of things who was saying 12 TFs both consoles were super close.

I also had my crazy little birdie friend as I have called him chime in months ago the PS5 was around 9.5 who later came up to 10.5 on a latest DK but he also was saying both consoles were very close, within 10% its where I got my number of 10% from him.

Many people here asked me why I was getting different sets of numbers and it never really occurred to me both guys were right about the console they were closest to.

I have tried to hang around here as much as I could and answer peoples questions, several through DMs and will never go and hide.

If someone has any questions be sure to tag me so I see them.

Stay Safe
I cannot possibly know this of course but you seemed the only genuine "insider" to me always.
 

onQ123

Member
Dude can’t you keep this in the dozens of other battleground threads? Cmon man

update the script

If you want to ignore every dev , engineer & tech guru that praise the PS5 that's on you. look around



"GPU specs aren't everything, neither are TFLOPs: Game devs say the PlayStation 5 isn't inferior to the Xbox Series X despite the GPU discrepancy"

Read more: https://www.tweaktown.com/news/7139...gnificantly-more-powerful-than-ps5/index.html


Ignore them


“I’m getting texts even today from developers being, like, this is such a shame – the PS5 is superior in all these other ways that they’re not able to message right now or can’t talk about right now,” said Schreier. “I heard from at least three different people in the past couple of hours since the Cerny thing being like, wow, the PS5 is actually the more superior piece of hardware in a lot of different ways, despite what we were seeing in these spec sheets.”




Ignore them

 

onQ123

Member
What I noticed:

- Insiders with credibility kind of went quiet near the MS 12TF reveal
- Insiders with little credibility started yapping about 13TF PS5 after the 12TF reveal

What I think happened:
- Dev kit wise PS5 was > Xbox, but MS hadn't gone to 12TF yet.. insiders were real, but reporting based on devkits not final info, and things can and do change
- Once the 12TF number was released insiders werent' sure anymore and just shut up
- Fake insiders didn't shut up, so we got the likes of Osiris hyping 13TF, it was all just them hoping that since MS was 12TF and so many legit insiders hinted PS5 was stronger, that they'd be right

I actually noticed that real insiders seemed to shut up after the 12TF reveal before Sony's reveal, and posited this theory.. and I think I was right.

The only problem with that is that we had the Xbox 12TF number since the beginning of the leaks it was one of the 1st things that leaked & never changed.
 

Leyasu

Banned
I did not rule out GitHub, I'm saying Matt stating that comment does mean that he wanted us to rule it out because it wasn't conclusive at all, and I can see his stance on this whole thing, because everyone treated that leak as Gospel.

Kleegamefan was right on many things, I'll name some of them off the top of my head.

- Both consoles being double digits in TFLOPS.
- Both consoles being more feature-packed & more powerful than AMD's latest RX 5700 XT.
- PlayStation 5 having way faster SSD than Xbox Series X.
- Xbox Series X being revealed at VGAs, he even said "and this is the day where I will bounce" before anyone knew it.
- Him confirming both consoles are in RDNA TFLOPS when all of us were doubting, he confirmed it multiple times.

There are even other instances which I don't really remember right now.

No treated Github like gospel.. It was dismissed out of hand because "it didn't match with what Klee said"

I'm sorry, but most of what Klee said had already been circulating since the wired article and various other echoes on the net. I honestly don't remember anything about the VGAs either.
 
I have a theory about some of the rumors that's probably a little bit crazy.

Is it possible that someone knew the actual TF numbers and was just spreading rumors of higher ones just to screw around with people?

I saw some users of Gaf that appeared to be doing those types of things. Like the recently banned TFlivematters user.

Not saying that all rumors we're spread this way but it seems like some of them were.
 

CrustyBritches

Gold Member
The simple explanation is that the insiders didn't know shit, and never really disclosed anything, but people believed them anyway because of confirmation bias. Meanwhile, Digital Foundry said 36CUs is likely based on the information back in April 2019.
 
I did not rule out GitHub, I'm saying Matt stating that comment does mean that he wanted us to rule it out because it wasn't conclusive at all, and I can see his stance on this whole thing, because everyone treated that leak as Gospel.

Kleegamefan was right on many things, I'll name some of them off the top of my head.

- Both consoles being double digits in TFLOPS.
- Both consoles being more feature-packed & more powerful than AMD's latest RX 5700 XT.
- PlayStation 5 having way faster SSD than Xbox Series X.
- Xbox Series X being revealed at VGAs, he even said "and this is the day where I will bounce" before anyone knew it.
- Him confirming both consoles are in RDNA TFLOPS when all of us were doubting, he confirmed it multiple times.

There are even other instances which I don't really remember right now.
Not to rain your parade but....
Klee insisted until the end that the ps5 GPU has more TF than the XSX.
Playstation having a way faster SSD than the XSX was like the most obvious thing ever, I predicted it too many months before the ps5 unveiling, does that make me an insider too ?
There were rumors that something really big was coming from MS at the GA , I think even Jez mentioned it, so Kleegamefan made a lucky guess based on observation.
Noone sane was doubting that the new consoles would be RDNA, the only doubt came from some Sony diehards who couldn’t believe that the XSX would be 12 TF.

The 12 TF XSX number was mentioned in a DF article in April 2019, many months before Klee made his prediction. The guy insisted that he has the actual spec sheet for both consoles and was adamant that ps5>XSX in terms of TF number. He disappeared just before the spec for both consoles was about to be released. In the end he predicted nothing. I won’t even bother with the rest of the pseudo insiders, these were jokes that helped both forums gain some traffic .
 

DaMonsta

Member
It’s kinda a simple concept.

NDAs work. No one was willing to risk their livelihood over fanning the fanboy wars.

Insiders “info” was based on off the cuff purposely misleading/vague comments by those in the know.

The insiders then interpreted that info, put their own spin on it and made their predictions.

Don’t know from where, but somewhere in the mix the idea that PS5 was more powerful took hold, so the insiders tried to make their info fit that idea.

And here we are.

As I said a long time ago in the “next gen” thread I hope this makes all of us really think about where/how we get our info from the internet, and what we chose to believe.
 
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LED Guy?

Banned
Not to rain your parade but....
Klee insisted until the end that the ps5 GPU has more TF than the XSX.
Playstation having a way faster SSD than the XSX was like the most obvious thing ever, I predicted it too many months before the ps5 unveiling, does that make me an insider too ?
There were rumors that something really big was coming from MS at the GA , I think even Jez mentioned it, so Kleegamefan made a lucky guess based on observation.
Noone sane was doubting that the new consoles would be RDNA, the only doubt came from some Sony diehards who couldn’t believe that the XSX would be 12 TF.

The 12 TF XSX number was mentioned in a DF article in April 2019, many months before Klee made his prediction. The guy insisted that he has the actual spec sheet for both consoles and was adamant that ps5>XSX in terms of TF number. He disappeared just before the spec for both consoles was about to be released. In the end he predicted nothing. I won’t even bother with the rest of the pseudo insiders, these were jokes that helped both forums gain some traffic .
Tell yourself what pleases you, because what you said is very untrue, I watched the whole thing unravel as hours go by even.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Came down to a few things.

1. Most insiders are total BS no-nothings

2. For the insiders that do know people with info, it gets more complicated. But it seems there was a coordinated plan by insiders and their contacts to keep promoting PS5 is more powerful than SeX and PS5 was 12-13TF. Aside from Githubbers who pushed Oberon 9.2 for a year, and maybe a couple random insiders guessing low, nobody else said PS5 would be around 10 tf

The fact most insiders clustered at this same range shows it's not random people with all kinds of numbers. You'd think the average insider would also have more than one industry source, yet how many of them ever said........... Hmmmm... one guy says 10tf and another 13tf. You never saw that. It was direct to 12-13tf with no wide range.

But I can see #2 being done.

It was t prevent game forums from going ape shit. Looks how much PS5 has been blasted and Cerny's show was only 3 week ago.

Just imagine how forums would be if people came out last year saying PS5 is around 10 tf.

You'd have PS5 nailed to the cross and the majority of forum fans (more PS than Xbox) bickering over a 10 tf rumour for a full year.

The first Oberon leaked data seemed to be recapped by Eurogamer in April 2019. But I don't know if it was actually earlier than that. Ya, PS5's core hardware was leaked a year ago, but all the insiders controlled forums until Cerny finally had to give details.

Then most of the insiders bolted.
 
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It’s kinda a simple concept.

NDAs work. No one was willing to risk their livelihood over fanning the fanboy wars.

Insiders “info” was based on off the cuff purposely misleading/vague comments by those in the know.

The insiders then interpreted that info, put their own spin on it and made their predictions.

Don’t know from where, but somewhere in the mix the idea that PS5 was more powerful took hold, so the insiders tried to make their info fit that idea.

And here we are.

As I said a long time ago in the “next gen” thread I hope this makes all of us really think about where/how we get our info from the internet, and what we chose to believe.
Most insiders, except HeisenbergFX4, were basically writing what most people wanted to read. Any tech discussion based on the only real leak we had , was ridiculed because «no way the ps5 has 36 CU, the same number of CU with the pro» ,« no way is the ps5 clocked so high», «all, insiders are saying the ps5 has more TF than the XSX, I believe them».

We have a similar situation now with developers but I will stop here.
 
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CatLady

Selfishly plays on Xbox Purr-ies X
I did not rule out GitHub, I'm saying Matt stating that comment does mean that he wanted us to rule it out because it wasn't conclusive at all, and I can see his stance on this whole thing, because everyone treated that leak as Gospel.

Kleegamefan was right on many things, I'll name some of them off the top of my head.

- Both consoles being double digits in TFLOPS.
- Both consoles being more feature-packed & more powerful than AMD's latest RX 5700 XT.
- PlayStation 5 having way faster SSD than Xbox Series X.
- Xbox Series X being revealed at VGAs, he even said "and this is the day where I will bounce" before anyone knew it.
- Him confirming both consoles are in RDNA TFLOPS when all of us were doubting, he confirmed it multiple times.

There are even other instances which I don't really remember right now.

Double digit flops - Even my cat knew that - we didn't need an insider to tell us the next gen consoles would be more than 3 flops higher than the 1X
AND at the time he said it he was WRONG for the PS5 as it was still a single digit 9.2 per GitHub

More featured-packed
- Again my cat told me that before Klee said it

PS5 faster SSD - I'm not sure but wasn't that a given already? Even if it wasn't known at the time it would not be a stretch to extrapolate it based on the Wired interview with Cerny.

XsX reveal at VGAs - I've heard that alot but never seen any proof

RDNA Flops - when did he say it? I thought everyone assumed RDNA for a long time

As already stated he was also WRONG about the PS5 being more powerful than the XsX. In my opinion his track record was vague, untruthful and pitifully wrong.
 

Gavin Stevens

Formerly 'o'dium'
I’ve already said my part but I’ll repeat it here just for clarity and ease of finding.

I have worked with and continue to work with several people over the years while as a developer myself, with my own work in various retail and indie products. I know a lot of people close enough to call friends, who work at large studios. A few of these are first party studios. I never once had access to consoles myself, and made a point to say that a lot. Everything I had, was second hand info.

As hard as I tried, I was never able to get anything from camp Xbox. That ship was as tight as a nuns arsehole. I tried, several times, to get something, anything. Not a sausage, other than “just wait”.

But camp Sony was a different story. I have a friend in first party who I game with and used to work with, and we chat often. On talking about next gen, his original tidbits stared small, with smaller details on dates and things for shows, talks, things he had heard rumblings of. Most of which were bang on target, and I posted them, hence the Johnny five stuff.

We get to talking about specs, and his original things we would drop, I would pass on. Target of 10.5-11.5, with it being on the low-mid end of that scale right now for their DK, but it wasn’t sustainable due to heat. On posting this, I got ripped to shreds, as how dare I say Sony didn’t have their shit together.

A little time passes, and he sends me new info, on memory speed and tf being at 11.6, but still with the old heating stuff. He assures me it’s good, so... I roll with it.

I make a bit of a game. Simple, it’s a pigeon game. Lots of clues, lots of little bits of info. Some guess it right, some dont. It’s fun, a laugh.

Then the spec reveal comes and... it’s wrong.

I spend a good week and then some trying to get context off him asking him what happened, and when I finally do, I get an answer; He saw what I was posting before was being talked about, and got the willies. He gave me bad info to compensate for this, but didn’t think it would blow up the way it did. He apologised, and of course, I accepted.

There really isn’t much more to this story sadly. I was given good info the first time, posted it, and it was shot down. I should have ran with that like I did with the pigeon stuff instead of waiting but hey ho.

You win some, you lose some.

I’ve since had several threats, several really nasty DMs on Twitter about my kid, Some Xbox live spam... it’s been a ride.

I still post, even though I get a shit load of flack. I deserve some of it, but not all. I usually just let most of it slide because when you shit the bed, don’t be surprised when people point and laugh. But some of it’s totally crazy.

But either way, it was fun, I didn’t set out to mislead people, I actually set out to help. And I only change my mind once given different info, so, there’s that. But wrong is wrong. What else is there to say?

I’ll answer whatever I can, regardless.

But it has to be said...

qptvw4B.jpg
 

Captain Hero

The Spoiler Soldier
Some of them I really respect because they were here whether they wrong or right .. but they don’t have to explain every wrong info they tried to give it to you guys , at that time everyone was just like a wild animal you wanted any info even if you know it’s wrong ! But still you want that insider to say it ..

So half of the problem is YOU .. fanboys or non-fanboys ...

At the end .. thank you OsirisBlack OsirisBlack BGs BGs HeisenbergFX4 HeisenbergFX4 ..

Games are the indicator of next gen’s success.. so fuck every perfection we just want games to be better than previous gen ..
 
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No offense , because you seem like a genuinely good guy, but how was a 36 CU ps5 going to be 11,5+ TF. The amount of CU was set in stone, so what clock speeds would Sony achieve to reach that number ? Even at 10.28 , the clock speed is unparalleled and variable.
 
Some of them I really respect because they were here whether they wrong or right .. but they don’t have to explain every wrong info they tried to give it to you guys , at that time everyone was just like a wild animal you wanted any info even if you know it’s wrong ! But still you want that insider to say it ..

So half of the problem is YOU .. fanboys or non-fanboys ...

At the end .. thank you OsirisBlack OsirisBlack BGs BGs HeisenbergFX4 HeisenbergFX4 ..

Games are the indicator of next gen’s success.. so fuck every perfection we just want games to be better that previous gen ..
Why are you thanking osirisblack ? The guy got everything wrong during the Xbox one x/ps4 pro era and got everything wrong again with these new consoles. So why are you thanking him exactly ?
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Why are you thanking osirisblack ? The guy got everything wrong during the Xbox one x/ps4 pro era and got everything wrong again with these new consoles. So why are you thanking him exactly ?
Maybe because he finally gave up doing his convoluted riddles thinking he's a big shot.

At some point in Dec or Jan, he got frustrated and finally started writing like a normal person.
 

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
The only problem with that is that we had the Xbox 12TF number since the beginning of the leaks it was one of the 1st things that leaked & never changed.
Yeah I suppose I'm wrong then; I honestly didn't start following much until right before that MS announcement and I guess I now remember the only real surprise was people expecting 12TF to not be RDNA?

It's just weird because I doubt someone like Klee would actually lie; he's a dude with a real name you can google and whatnot. So I just assume he was mislead somehow.
 

Gavin Stevens

Formerly 'o'dium'
No offense , because you seem like a genuinely good guy, but how was a 36 CU ps5 going to be 11,5+ TF. The amount of CU was set in stone, so what clock speeds would Sony achieve to reach that number ? Even at 10.28 , the clock speed is unparalleled and variable.

I was never told anything specific, Cu count wise, for the 10.5-11.5 target. Ever. Just a base target tf.

But I WAS told 52@1600 or “there abouts” for 11.6.
 

CatLady

Selfishly plays on Xbox Purr-ies X
Some of them I really respect because they were here whether they wrong or right .. but they don’t have to explain every wrong info they tried to give it to you guys , at that time everyone was just like a wild animal you wanted any info even if you know it’s wrong ! But still you want that insider to say it ..

So half of the problem is YOU .. fanboys or non-fanboys ...

At the end .. thank you OsirisBlack OsirisBlack BGs BGs HeisenbergFX4 HeisenbergFX4 ..

Games are the indicator of next gen’s success.. so fuck every perfection we just want games to be better than previous gen ..


I pretty much agree except OsirisBlack OsirisBlack got nothing right as far as I recall and from what I understand, he disappeared a day or 2 after the PS5 reveal so I would cross him out and put Gavin Stevens Gavin Stevens instead. He's still here and at least he correctly stated the XsX is more powerful than the PS5 and had very close TFs for the PS5 when at max GPU clock before he was fed wrong info right before the reveal
 
There it is.. Just people like Matt who are mods n the other place and have to stick around.
Matt basically lost all credibility. An impartial developer would never try to shut down the github talk and give ammo to baseless speculation. The only legit person in the other forum is the DICE developer and he NEVER says anything, because you know he is an actual dev in a big company. The only thing you could get from him is a form of enthusiasm for the XSX, calling it sex and meaning it and such, nothing else.
 

BGs

Industry Professional
PS5 GPU has another TFLOPS equivalent from the RT cores besides the shader cores. When RT workloads are factored in, no VII can match it.
Sorry. I do not understand your reply.

Can you explain to me? Thanks.
 

CrustyBritches

Gold Member
No offense , because you seem like a genuinely good guy, but how was a 36 CU ps5 going to be 11,5+ TF. The amount of CU was set in stone, so what clock speeds would Sony achieve to reach that number ? Even at 10.28 , the clock speed is unparalleled and variable.
I figured I'd touch on a couple funny topics, but firstly, the 36CU/2GHz core clock was already known in August 2019. From there they basically decided to OC as much as possible and use variable clocks for marketing purposes. Cerny said in his presentation that core clock usually only varies "2-3%". That 3% change drops you down to a "9TF" GPU, so you can see why it was so essential for them to hit that mark.

Secondly, one of the more intriguing parts of this saga was when a thread, a good thread actually, was created by a guy called metalcleaner called something like "Simulating Gonzalo". The thread found that the sweet spot for a RDNA chip concerning perf/watt was around 1.8GHz, and that high clocks on a narrow design were inefficient and unlikely. This was used as the basis for the idea that PS5 couldn't be 36CU/2GHz, because it was inefficient. The likelihood, it was speculated, was that it was "Big Navi" at around 1.8GHz. If you've stuck with me this far, the funny-ass punchline is that was exactly what XSX turned out to be, while PS5 is this old narrow design to accommodate for BC with fat OC and variable clocks. Then the narrative shifted to "that's better, don't cha know" and "XSX is brute force design". :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
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sneas78

Banned
Can someone who really knows their shit talk about in raw performance going to rdna2 what TF IN GCN we would get .. for both consoles? Is it like equivalent to 18TF 20TF.. what? If that last the case we are fighting the wrong battle.
 
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Leyasu

Banned
Matt basically lost all credibility. An impartial developer would never try to shut down the github talk and give ammo to baseless speculation. The only legit person in the other forum is the DICE developer and he NEVER says anything, because you know he is an actual dev in a big company. The only thing you could get from him is a form of enthusiasm for the XSX, calling it sex and meaning it and such, nothing else.
Totally agree.
 
I would not like this response to be interpreted as an attack on anyone in particular. It is not like this. I simply take advantage of the moment to try to contribute my point of view, especially in the general way that it is when it comes to judging information (or sometimes people).

Since I cannot speak for others, I will speak for myself. This was going to be a long text, but I've finally narrowed it down. Since I have been quoted, I will make a general reflection, although I think I already mentioned it once.

All truthful information is only true at the right time and under specific circumstances.

On the one hand there are the Specs of DK1, DK2, DKF and Retail. All different from each other. And people really want to know about retail. But since he cannot know them, he begins to speculate based on the DK. That is your responsibility. My responsibility is to say nothing that I cannot say. And assume the consequences of what I say.

That said, and as you all know, I only have the opportunity to discuss my personal experience with the DK1, which I consider to be top-tier information, but having the possibility does not mean that I am allowed to do so (NDA). That has always been clear. Beyond that, the rest of the information is second level, that is, through the mouth of my colleagues, who are subject to their own NDA. And then comes third-level information, contacts at other companies. Then the fourth level information would come, which would be that of the type "a type related to the sector (journalist, screenwriter, etc.) has contact with a worker from a developer and has told him that ...". And finally, in my opinion, would come the start of the dubious information, which would be the type "I have a butcher friend who has a cousin who works in ...". This is where the information has to be taken with the tips of your fingers because you can get burned. The rest of levels, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, up to 4th, is reliable information. Nobody in their right mind, and who wants a stable job, will risk their position for free (within those 4 levels) by giving information that can discredit them. It is possible that within the 4th group there is some erroneous information, but I do not think that deliberately.

Within the group of real Insiders (workers in the first group) there will be no one who comes to a public forum to say anything they cannot say. What we can do is talk about what has already been made public, as long as said conversation does not conflict with other unpublished information. And we can also comment on filtered information, as long as said conversation does not harm third parties. Once all these restrictions lose effect, over time, we can talk about everything. Which is what interests me.

It would also be helpful to make it clear that there are still things that have not been said to begin with. Therefore, branding any possible Insider a liar for the "Road to PS5 aimed at developers" would be a mistake, in my opinion. Surely there will have been one. And others don't. But come on, I think everyone has said what they have been able to say based on each of their specific circumstances. But I doubt that reputable and old users have put their reputation at risk for a time of "glory" knowing what was going to happen. It is clear to think that these people have either been deceived or were telling the truth at that "moment". Because the information goes from "moments".

We are going to give examples.

If you have a January 2019 Leak, it is legitimate to debate that Leak in 2020. But is it correct? Yes, but risky. You run the risk that this Leak, which was correct in 2019, is no longer correct in 2020, and therefore you are wasting time debating about it. Is it correct to debate the heating problems of a system in the DK1 of 2019 if it turns out that when you are debating it, that problem no longer exists or will it be corrected in the Retail version? Yes, it is correct to debate, but depending on how it can be an absurd waste of time using old information, as much as such old information was leaked yesterday. You decide what to debate and what not. And what to believe and what not. But it would not hurt to use common sense a little from time to time. Many times you fight to know that Devkit is the most powerful without stopping to think that this is of little importance with respect to Retail versions. And the specs of the Retail versions, which is what you really want to know, you will not know until their respective companies so wish.

But yes, this is a forum and you have to talk about something. But a top tier Insider will always tell you what he can talk about, and maybe what he can talk about is expired information. An insider here will be more useful once the consoles are released. Meanwhile, what you need is not an Insider. You need a spy or leaker.

As I have done so far, beyond the obvious jokes, it has been giving you indirect information that you could interpret correctly or not. For example, "puberty". What happens if you do the conversion from 9.2 RDNA2 to GCN? What number results?

Then there is my claim that PS5 was no longer 9.2. Given that I think there is no doubt either.

I know what you want. But what you want an Insider cannot give you right now. So I personally do not find it useful.

Health for everyone.
Sorry, there must be a lot of kids in this forum... Or at least people who were never involved in a project inside a giant corporation.
 
Everyone who actually knows concrete information is under very strict NDA contract, where they will be fired or even sued for breaking it. So 99%+ of these people are probably smart enough to keep their mouth shut.

This means it’s highly unlikely that they will tell anyone who shouldn’t know, no matter who they are. Games journalists don’t know any more than we do, and if they do they are probably wise enough to keep their mouth shut too. The ones teasing snippets without actually committing to anything probably know nothing and are just attention seekers. It’s not hard if you have a keen interest in gaming to make predictions with a 50%+ accuracy.

Also people need to chill on elevating someone to “insider” status. Just because you worked for a game magazine 20 years ago doesn’t mean you have access to the contents of Phil Spencer’s wife’s knicker drawer.
 
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DaMonsta

Member
Most insiders, except HeisenbergFX4, were basically writing what most people wanted to read. Any tech discussion based on the only real leak we had , was ridiculed because «no way the ps5 has 36 CU, the same number of CU with the pro» ,« no way is the ps5 clocked so high», «all, insiders are saying the ps5 has more TF than the XSX, I believe them».

We have a similar situation now with developers but I will stop here.
Well obviously a part of what “insiders” do is stoke expectations. Remember they are human like the rest of us.

Then people will believe and promote what they want to believe.

An insiders perceived credibility is more closely based on peoples own wants and desires than the actual quality of source/information.

Like you said, we see that now. Anyone claiming PS5 to Xbox power gap will be minimal gets praised and defended here, while people saying the opposite get trashed.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
I figured I'd touch on a couple funny topics, but firstly, the 36CU/2GHz core clock was already known in August 2019. From there they basically decided to OC as much as possible and use variable clocks for marketing purposes. Cerny said in his presentation that core clock usually only varies "2-3%". That 3% change drops you down to a "9TF" GPU, so you can see why it was so essential for them to hit that mark.

Secondly, one of the more intriguing parts of this saga was when a thread, a good thread actually, was created by a guy called metalcleaner called something like "Simulating Gonzalo". The thread found that the sweet spot for a RDNA chip concerning perf/watt was around 1.8GHz, and that high clocks on a narrow design were inefficient and unlikely. This was used as the basis for the idea that PS5 couldn't be 36CU/2GHz, because it was inefficient. The likelihood, it was speculated, was that it was "Big Navi" at around 1.8GHz. If you've stuck with me this far, the funny-ass punchline is that was exactly what XSX turned out to be, while PS5 is this old narrow design to accommodate for BC with fat OC and variable clocks. Then the narrative shifted to "that's better, don't cha know" and "XSX is brute force design". :messenger_tears_of_joy:
Hints at PS5 came in April!


How the core has been enhanced over Vega and its prior GCN stablemates remains to be seen, but a PCB leak from Komachi Ensaka via a now-deleted post on a Chinese forum reveals an all-new board design we've not seen before, marked with AMD branding. The boards seen in the photos are not populated with any silicon, but a lot of information can be gleaned from them. First of all, the pin configuration on the memory side of things confirms that the new AMD GPU will be paired with GDDR6 modules. 16GB - or more likely 8GB - of memory will be paired with the new core, and based on established memory speeds, a total of 348GB/s or 448GB/s of bandwidth seems likely, operating over a 256-bit interface. Which speed we get depends on which spec of GDDR6 AMD eventually settles upon.
 

CrustyBritches

Gold Member
Hints at PS5 came in April!
DF straight up said as much in their PS5/Gonzalo vid from April, 2019:
a good place to start is PlayStation 4 Pro, shipped with 36 active compute units which may be a good match for Sony [backwards] compatibility-wise. That would give us a GPU compute total of 8.3 teraflops.
This was the NovaMonbasa XSX/PS5 leak from January 2019. It was delayed, had a revision, and came back as the 2GHz Oberon in August 2019. From there, variable clocks jumped it another 160-230MHz. The Nova leak nailed the 12TF XSX, too...all in January 2019.
 
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Right to this day devs are still saying that PS5 perform better & so on

You mean the Sony 1st-party devs Schreir got his quotes from? Or the Crytek dev whose interview was redacted within hours and has a Twitter feed that almost screams like an obsessed fanboy? Or probably very likely broke NDA (if they were ever actually a dev with access to devkits btw) to give an interview no 3rd-party would wants its devs to do so as to keep in good relations with platform holders?

Also why was that your takeaway from my comment? Time to hop off that train bro, this thread's not even about that :LOL:

Yes I agree with what you said there, thicc!!

But it’s weird, you know? It’s like everything we’ve heard about the PS5 was downright WRONG, it makes ya think, you know?

Not everything was wrong; the SSD stuff more or less turned out correct, and technically that is hardware-related.

What I noticed:

- Insiders with credibility kind of went quiet near the MS 12TF reveal
- Insiders with little credibility started yapping about 13TF PS5 after the 12TF reveal

What I think happened:
- Dev kit wise PS5 was > Xbox, but MS hadn't gone to 12TF yet.. insiders were real, but reporting based on devkits not final info, and things can and do change
- Once the 12TF number was released insiders werent' sure anymore and just shut up
- Fake insiders didn't shut up, so we got the likes of Osiris hyping 13TF, it was all just them hoping that since MS was 12TF and so many legit insiders hinted PS5 was stronger, that they'd be right

I actually noticed that real insiders seemed to shut up after the 12TF reveal before Sony's reveal, and posited this theory.. and I think I was right.

Here's the thing though... if ever PS5 was > XSX, wouldn't that have been before January 2019 (the Nova leak CrustyBritches CrustyBritches mentioned), and would not Ariel therefore had been reporting higher numbers in the Github leaked info and testing data that followed? I don't quite recall what rumors there were for both systems prior to 2019, but I do know PS5 started development earlier than XSX. 2015 seems a good time frame for when PS5 dev began, right as the team was wrapping up PS4 Pro. Meanwhile XSX development likely bega sometime in later half 2016, and probably didn't ramp up until the X was more or less ready for final certs.

So my thing is, if PS5 was ever above XSX in TF terms, what were folks basing that on? I doubt MS would have aimed XSX at anything other than 12 TF, since the X was already 6. Sony apparently decided on 36 CUs very early on, and PS4 Pro development very likely cemented that approach. They likely counted on overall efficency and architectural improvements with RDNA/RDNA2 to deliver a 2x increase over the Pro in terms of raw numbers, while fitting the same chip size as the Pro, also meaning they were (maybe still are?) aiming at a $399 MSRP.

I'm thinking a lot of the earlier PS5 performance speculation may've been based on devkits using Vega-based hardware to effectively aim at what they wanted on the RDNA/RDNA2 architecture. One of the lingering questions I guess is, was PS5 aiming at RDNA2, or RDNA1? Because Ariel was an RDNA1 chip. Well I still maintain they wanted an RDNA2 chip because if the original release date was 2019, the first Oberon revision showed a log date of June 2019 and that's enough time to test and then spin the production for the system from. We might still need to know just how much of an RDNA2 chip PS5 is (to be fair, can extend that to XSX; since both systems are using custom chips there are aspects of RDNA2 they won't need in their given systems), but I think they always targeted at least some RDNA2 features including RT, from the early stages.

Now, if an Oberon revision didn't show up until, say, September 2019 but the system was still aiming at a 2019 release before getting delayed to 2020, then there could be some merit to an idea RDNA2 implementation was something that came later and not planned from the start. But that seems extremely unlikely IMHO because Sony and MS have had access to AMD's roadmap for a very long time by now, they therefore would know what features AMD sought to implement and what node processes they sought to do them on.
 
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Shin

Banned
unless the PS5 devkits were using Vega Radeon VII cards earlier on and on paper that 13.8 number would be larger than 12 (but on very different architecture).
That would have been a funny move and missed opportunity, to potentially mess with the heads of your competitor.
Now I wished it did just for shits and giggles, I'm no investor so CBA about being profitable and shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiittttttttttt.

giphy.gif
 

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
So my thing is, if PS5 was ever above XSX in TF terms, what were folks basing that on?

Well my theory has always been: the actual dev kits people were using. As others have pointed out we had "leaks" that XSX was 12TF from early 2019, but what about the devkits? The reports from right around the time Klee got confident about PS5 > XSX were that the XSX dev kits were coming late/having issues/etc.
 

Genx3

Member
I knew they were lying all along. Its obvious when people are being vague or just throwing up bs numbers.
People here are just gullible. They'll believe what ever they want to believe and someone came in and took advantage of that.
Back in 2013 when it leaked out that XB1 was 1.2 TF's (later upclocked to 1.3TF's) and PS4 was 1.8 TF's I knew that MS had messed up. The same way it leaked out that PS5's clocks were being tested at 2 GHZ with 9.2 TF's on tap (later boosted to 2.23GHZ and 10.3TF's). I knew that Sony had messed up and started pushing the clocks way up to try to close the gap.
It really is as simple as that.
 

Gargus

Banned
If you put stock in a leak you're a retard.

If it isn't an official announcement from the source then its all just bullshit. The internet has created this plauge called "someone said it on the internet so it must be true" and its ruining our society.
 

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
It was obvious he was full of shit. Even his claim to fame about the PS4 Pro is quite clearly BS when you look into it.

The issue here is that what he said about a PS5 Pro and base, and their respective TFs was utterly wrong. He said that the base would be 9TF and Pro somewhere towards 12. Yet here we are with a PS5 confirmed pretty much bang between those numbers meaning that a budget version at - 1.2TF or a Pro at + 1.7TF are just not realistic. Sony have actually announced the perfect number of TFs to debunk either of those figures because a whole new system above or below to meet those numbers would be pointless.

VFXVeteran was right about Horizon Zero Dawn, but he's been very much wrong in regards to the PS5.
Yeah I stopped reading when he mentioned VFXVeteran VFXVeteran
 
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Hawk269

Member
Yeah I suppose I'm wrong then; I honestly didn't start following much until right before that MS announcement and I guess I now remember the only real surprise was people expecting 12TF to not be RDNA?

It's just weird because I doubt someone like Klee would actually lie; he's a dude with a real name you can google and whatnot. So I just assume he was mislead somehow.

That is exactly what i was saying over at the other place...but when I suggested that the info that Klee was being feed could potentially be wrong people came out with pitch forks attacking me for even suggesting that....Klee was for some the second coming of Christ over at that other forum and me merely suggesting that perhaps the information Klee was reporting could be wrong. He was not getting information directly from Sony or MS, it was 2nd hand information and there is always a potential that the information could be inaccurate. But Era being Era I was attacked and "how dare I question someone like Klee" was a popular comment. I even said that I have no issue with Klee...but I would advice to talk what he is saying with a pinch of salt because even Klee himself said this is what he was being told.
 
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