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[zubairali2]

thats a great idea. sony releasing playstation home on the ps4 and having an area dedicated to seeing more infomation about ths ps5 as it comes to launch and then boom....ps home gets a cross gen release.

it would be the dream right?

 

[Bo_Hazem]

That link doesn't work for me, but this is the one I was referring to, along with a description of the methodology used:



It shows the same thing, though. DualShock 4 over USB was implemented late on after the PS4 Pro launched, and was apparently to help in tournament like environments where there's a lot of Bluetooth competing for airtime. I'm guessing the USB polling rates on the PS4 were never designed with controller traffic in mind. In it's standard Bluetooth usage, it's already putting a massive focus on latency.
In Mark Cerny's talk that introduced PS4, he talked about how they'd worked hard on input latency for the DualShock 4, and that was it. A single sentence saying that. No marketing buzzword, not even a comparison to other systems or the previous DualShock 3.

I think if Sony had given the changes made to their IO pipeline between PS4 and PS5 a catchy sounding name, we'd not be hearing the end of it, even now. Instead people just talk about the "PS5 SSD", as if it's all about the flash chips and controller.

You mean something catchy like this?

For Xbox Series X, the team devised a solution in which the new controller samples and transmits the most up-to-date input just before the game asks for it. The result is “just in time” delivery that they call “Dynamic Latency Input (DLI)”.

Xbox Series X: What’s the Deal with Latency? - Xbox Wire

Webster’s Dictionary defines ‘latency’ as “the quality or state of being present and capable of emerging or developing but not now visible, obvious, or active.” And now that I’ve finally gotten to use that hackneyed writing trope in my career, let’s dive into what latency means in the world of...

news.xbox.com

I should say catchy names are great for marketing, but you should deliver accordingly as well.

 

[KingT731]

Sure, I get that, but we are still
Comparing what Epic thought it was good to show off their tech working on either console and IMHO Sony was coy and waited so long to show off PS5 specific things until they had working HW and could do real-time believable demos that were meaningful and not just PR stunts. Either that or yes their PR And tech department are clueless and like MS to control the narrative for no reason as they could have shown faked impressive demos much earlier on and dominated the narrative with misleading stuff.

Wasn't this already addressed by Epic when Tim said that demo was supposed to be at GDC?

 

[pasterpl]

“We’ve been working super close with Sony for quite a long time on storage,” he says. “The storage architecture on the PS5 is far ahead of anything you can buy on anything on PC for any amount of money right now. It’s going to help drive future PCs. [The PC market is] going to see this thing ship and say, ‘Oh wow, SSDs are going to need to catch up with this.”

Epic CEO Tim Sweeney says the PS5 is so impressive it’s ‘going to help drive future PCs’

Epic and Sony have been working closely together, and Sweeney is impressed.

www.theverge.com

You can ask Tim Sweeney yourself if you don't like those quotations and the videos him stating those, and post his replies here. If you think it's not true, provide a proof of what you are saying, and hard proofs (which isn't happening). Stop derailing the thread with repeated, washed-out questions that have been answered several times already.

you specifically said it will crash xbsex or pc, and it looks like it is not a case, it’s not mentioned anywhere that it would crash any other system, another example of fud by you. It might not run the same (I suspect that xbsex and high end pc will result in higher native res and better FPS) but it will run, it will not crush these systems.

all of the effects and tech in that demo will run on both pc and xbsex

 

[TLZ]

xbox has sony beat on shown next gen games.

What nextgen games? I think we saw a couple, and they were trailers. We're yet to see actual nextgen games.

 

[Panajev2001a]

you specifically said it will crash xbsex or pc, and it looks like it is not a case, it’s not mentioned anywhere that it would crash any other system, another example of fud by you. It might not run the same (I suspect that xbsex and high end pc will result in higher native res and better FPS) but it will run, it will not crush these systems.

all of the effects and tech in that demo will run on both pc and xbsex

Sure, it is a scalable tech, but it does highlight some strengths about the platform that the demo was meant to highlight so a demo for XSX will show other strengths and other weaknesses: “The Unreal Engine 5 demo on PlayStation 5 was the culmination of years of discussions between Sony and Epic on future graphics and storage architectures.” This does a good job to complement the Road to PS5 talk and what drove the PS5 architecture.

 

[pasterpl]

What nextgen games? I think we saw a couple, and they were trailers. We're yet to see actual nextgen games.

I think Sony will beat ms to show next gen games first, I hope that we will see at least couple videos with actual gameplay during their June event, with ms, we know we have to wait till July

June inside Xbox should be forever forgotten

 

[J_Gamer.exe]

I think by reused assets he means something like this video.

Timestamped.

That's interesting when he adds just 3 of those rocks in full quality and it completely tanks performance on a high powered PC.

It really shows how much they have achieved with the tech in unreal engine 5 and with the ability of PS5 with geometry engine and Ssd io etc to run that entire demo at 1440p and above 30fps.

Damn.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

you specifically said it will crash xbsex or pc, and it looks like it is not a case, it no mentioned anywhere that it would crash any other system, another example of fud by you. It might not run the same (I suspect that xbsex and high end pc will result in higher native res and better FPS) but it will run, it will not crush these systems.

all of the effects and tech in that demo will run on both pc and xbsex

Ok stop spinning for a moment, now I'm talking about THAT EXACT DEMO WITH THE EXACT ASSETS QUALITY AND PERFORMANCE. Can you now provide a proof that same demo at the same level/performance will work outside PS5?

All effects will work on other devices, might as well androids and iPhones, but they'll scale down.

On other platforms, it looks like Unreal Engine 5 will just scale down, although it's not clear to what degree it'll scale down on each platform.

Epic's Unreal Engine 5: I got a first look on PS5, and now I'm a believer

Epic's Tim Sweeney hints at what's to come in 2021 for new consoles, Fortnite and more.

www.cnet.com

Saying that exact demo will run with the exact amount of details and performance on XSX is a fairy tale. Lumen, Nanite etc will work everywhere and scale according to HW capabilities, no one even bothered to say otherwise.

EDIT:

Tim Sweeney said this demo is running on "the best hardware that will be available at the end of the year":

Timestamped:

 

[RicochetBullet]

board meeting at Xbox HQ:

We put this team on branding alot of our custom hardware and software. We got cool fanboy-tickling stuff like Velocity Architecture and Sampler Feedback Streaming. Awesome. Problem is they're bogged with work and we only have a group of monkeys branding our consoles:


Xbox, Xbox 360, Xbox 360 S, Xbox 360 E, Xbox One, Xbox One S, Xbox One X, Xbox One S, Xbox One S AD, Xbox Series X

 

[Gudji]

All hail the most powerful GPU, lets keep ignoring SSD and I/O speeds though, that shit doesn't matter for anything. /s

 

[FeiRR]

Is there any realtime footage from Xbox Series X available to date, except for last gen ports of games like SoD2, GoW5 and Minecraft with RT? If not, why? It's less than half a year till the release.

IT WORRIES ME. /s

 

[3liteDragon]

Is there any realtime footage from Xbox Series X available to date, except for last gen ports of games like SoD2, GoW5 and Minecraft with RT? If not, why? It's less than half a year till the release.

IT WORRIES ME. /s

Wait until July, hopefully they’ve learned their lesson from the recent Inside Xbox event and show off next-gen games actually running on the console. Tbh, they’re all gonna be first-party games so they’re most likely gonna be shown off running in real-time on the Series X.

 

[TLZ]

i cant wait for sony to reveal the ps5, should be interesting what his reaction would be

 

[Panajev2001a]

Is there any realtime footage from Xbox Series X available to date, except for last gen ports of games like SoD2, GoW5 and Minecraft with RT? If not, why? It's less than half a year till the release.

IT WORRIES ME. /s

I do not think there is cause of concern really , I think they want to make a big presentation and not to give Sony PR ammunition. After that last Inside Xbox they are probably even more careful at what they say and how.

 

[phil_t98]

Is there any realtime footage from Xbox Series X available to date, except for last gen ports of games like SoD2, GoW5 and Minecraft with RT? If not, why? It's less than half a year till the release.

IT WORRIES ME. /s

there is equally less on the PS5 and its nothing to worry about, both would of shown a lot during E3 so expect a lot coming up real soon

 

[TLZ]

I think Sony will beat ms to show next gen games first, I hope that we will see at least couple videos with actual gameplay during their June event, with ms, we know we have to wait till July

June inside Xbox should be forever forgotten

I want to see those gameplay videos and I want it to be November already. I'm bored of all this talk now.

 

[Panajev2001a]

there is equally less

? What?

 

[J_Gamer.exe]

Haha nice.

Oh wait so maybe this is actually a glimmer of how it looks on the xbox.... it can run the demo afterall just a 'different' quality.

Kidding ofcourse...

 

[phil_t98]

? What?

footage of ps5 games

 

[J_Gamer.exe]

This video made me wonder, where is the Microsoft GDC talk addressing the finer details about their own harware?

When those gaps are going to be covered?



PS. Keeping people in the dark about their SSD storage system, when they even showed the form factor and DF made like 10 videos about the Series X for them, is ridiculous at this point.

I'm working off the principle that if a brash company like Microsoft is quiet when they usually shout from the rooftops if ahead, then they are probably behind.

Note also sony put a power estimate to their audio chip. Didn't xbox just say that they had one with no details. Same principle as above.

I wonder if the cpu still has more to do with audio on xbox as that dev opinion riddle mentioned the coordinator having to deal with lots of things including the noise of the neighbour's lol.

 

[martino]

You mean something catchy like this?

For Xbox Series X, the team devised a solution in which the new controller samples and transmits the most up-to-date input just before the game asks for it. The result is “just in time” delivery that they call “Dynamic Latency Input (DLI)”.

Xbox Series X: What’s the Deal with Latency? - Xbox Wire

Webster’s Dictionary defines ‘latency’ as “the quality or state of being present and capable of emerging or developing but not now visible, obvious, or active.” And now that I’ve finally gotten to use that hackneyed writing trope in my career, let’s dive into what latency means in the world of...

news.xbox.com

I should say catchy names are great for marketing, but you should deliver accordingly as well.

we want concrete info on ssd latency over that.

edit :

Variable refresh rate (VRR): When games miss their frames, VRR will show the result with the lowest possible latency. 120 Hz TVs that support VRR typically have very large timing windows which makes above 40 FPS performance free of screen tearing.

why a 40 fps threshold....this is a so bad choice.

 

[Rusco Da Vino]

you specifically said it will crash xbsex or pc, and it looks like it is not a case, it’s not mentioned anywhere that it would crash any other system, another example of fud by you. It might not run the same (I suspect that xbsex and high end pc will result in higher native res and better FPS) but it will run, it will not crush these systems.

all of the effects and tech in that demo will run on both pc and xbsex

Again using ill founded argumentations and being disingenuous?

That tweet from Tim Sweeney says that: "The Nanite and Lumen tech powering it will be fully supported on both PS5 and Xbox Series X and will be awesome on both"

Which is fucking obvious by the way.

He does not talk about how this very specific PS5/UE5 demo will run on Xbox Series X or PC, which is the point you try to "shut down".

In fact, about this very specific PS5/UE5 demo he says this:

So yes, people are free to conclude that this very specific PS5/UE5 demo only can run on PS5 and not in another systems.

Cut the crap. Last time did not end well for you.

 

[LED Guy?]

Ok stop spinning for a moment, now I'm talking about THAT EXACT DEMO WITH THE EXACT ASSETS QUALITY AND PERFORMANCE. Can you now provide a proof that same demo at the same level/performance will work outside PS5?

All effects will work on other devices, might as well androids and iPhones, but they'll scale down.

On other platforms, it looks like Unreal Engine 5 will just scale down, although it's not clear to what degree it'll scale down on each platform.

Epic's Unreal Engine 5: I got a first look on PS5, and now I'm a believer

Epic's Tim Sweeney hints at what's to come in 2021 for new consoles, Fortnite and more.

www.cnet.com

Saying that exact demo will run with the exact amount of details and performance on XSX is a fairy tale. Lumen, Nanite etc will work everywhere and scale according to HW capabilities, no one even bothered to say otherwise.

EDIT:

Tim Sweeney said this demo is running on "the best hardware that will be available at the end of the year":

Timestamped:

Yeah exactly, I wonder how it’ll scale down to Xbox Series X because I don’t think it’ll 100% run it the same as PS5 with those huge assets streamed in-out of screen, that’s why Nanite/Lumen can scale-down accordingly, so XSX will get and run the same exact demo, but with lower quality assets and textures because of the much slower SSD.

PlayStation 5 =

 

[Tchu-Espresso]

we want concrete info on ssd latency over that.

edit :

Variable refresh rate (VRR): When games miss their frames, VRR will show the result with the lowest possible latency. 120 Hz TVs that support VRR typically have very large timing windows which makes above 40 FPS performance free of screen tearing.

why a 40 fps threshold....this is a so bad choice.

Limitation of tv panels.

 

[Thirty7ven]

And people are funny when they don't mention that you need to pay $300 just for the shitty Windows OS (now down for $140 for the Home version, $200 for Pro, and $310 for Workstation Pro).

Yes that is interesting isn’t it?!

 

[Bogroll]

So reading this thread now, I'm expecting PS5 to come out on top in DF videos.

 

[hemo memo]

So reading this thread now, I'm expecting PS5 to come out on top in DF videos.

GAF =/= reality (sometimes)

 

[ethomaz]

Mark Cerny didn't mention NVMe to be the expandable solution, he specifically mentioned m.2. I think Sony and some partners are working on introducing a much superior architecture similar to PS5's or better, but lacking the I/O if you use it on PC but still a major upgrade over NVMe.

NVMe is just the software communication protocol.
Sony can use any custom protocol without any hardware change... they can for a sample just to update the drive firmware with the new protocol via PS5 when first used.

 

[Gudji]

So reading this thread now, I'm expecting PS5 to come out on top in DF videos.

Both versions will have advantages and disavantages.

 

[Jon Neu]

So reading this thread now, I'm expecting PS5 to come out on top in DF videos.

Well, the thread is filled with pro Sony users with a Sony masturbatory rhetoric all around and any Xbox user is rapidly dogpilled to the point of not daring to go against the Sony masturbatory narrative. So it’s understandable you will have that impression after reading it.

Let’s see what happens in reality.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Well, the thread is filled with pro Sony users with a Sony masturbatory rhetoric all around and any Xbox user is rapidly dogpilled to the point of not daring to go against the Sony masturbatory narrative. So it’s understandable you will have that impression after reading it.

Let’s see what happens in reality.

It’s funny how accepting the XSX has a more powerful GPU, enough to make a modest difference just isn’t enough for some of you. You need the world to accept your fantasies.

It ain’t happening.

 

[Gediminas]

Well, the thread is filled with pro Sony users with a Sony masturbatory rhetoric all around and any Xbox user is rapidly dogpilled to the point of not daring to go against the Sony masturbatory narrative. So it’s understandable you will have that impression after reading it.

Let’s see what happens in reality.

in reality, xbox users here mostly comes with fud or with ridiculous statements, yes, how dare ps users stand up for reality with facts and logic?

Both versions will have advantages and disavantages.

of course it will. both companies approaching new gen from different angles.

 

[geordiemp]

Tim Sweeney said this demo is running on "the best hardware that will be available at the end of the year":

Timestamped:

I actually think (opinion), based on the MS demos so far of fast loading and fast resume demos, I just think MS is still working on changing how data is accessed on the SSD to help remove "some of the latency", Hence the 100 GB comments, think its a different paging memory access system which is just not ready yet hence we have no good demos just walls of text and marketing words.

Yes XSX will run stuff like this well, so will PCs, but will need changes to api / storage and whatever to do at such high resolutions. A ps4 / xb1 can run that demo, but at either lower resolution / detail or probably both.

I just think Sony is just further down the fast SSD line by a long way at this point in time, but we need XSX to be also fast enough so 3rd party go all in.

I think Sonys SSD and Epics demo has cauight so many by surprise a little - just my opinion.

If MS is ready, we will see games loading in 1 second any time now............



I like that GIf sorry, could not resist ...

 

[ToadMan]

Lets let the games do the talking because right now xbox has sony beat on shown next gen games. Im fan of both consoles but this is bs

Yes let's do that. So far a mulitplat tech demo on PS5 had more gameplay and made more jaws drop than MS's actual Gameplay Reveal... MS is already on the ropes...

 

[LED Guy?]

Well, the thread is filled with pro Sony users with a Sony masturbatory rhetoric all around and any Xbox user is rapidly dogpilled to the point of not daring to go against the Sony masturbatory narrative. So it’s understandable you will have that impression after reading it.

Let’s see what happens in reality.

Nope, Xbox fanboys are always lying and misinforming gamers, they got so butthurt because of that tech demo running on PS5.

That demo made Hellblade 2 trailer looking like plastic compared to it, the lighting in that demo DESTROYS Hellblade 2 lighting!!

There are many Xbox fanboys in here too but they always get shut down because they’re constantly lying.

 

[T-Cake]

Does anyone remember (was it a patent) that Sony mentioned ages ago about swapping out textures on the fly for old games and replacing them with higher quality ones? Now that we've seen the Unreal 5 engine demo and resolution was just something nobody give two thoughts about (it looks 4K!), what if Sony's backward compatible solution kept the games at 1080p30 (or whatever resolution they play at) but just swapped in new 8K textures? The games would get an immediate facelift and look higher resolution than they really are.

 

[Bogroll]

Both versions will have advantages and disavantages.

It's like build up to a big boxing fight. The Ps5 has a more (in this thread of recent weeks ) confident I'm going to knock you out in the 2nd round boxer (followers/so called experts) I just want the fight to happen soon. Let's bring it on, let's see who runs of into the bushes when the fight starts.

 

[ToadMan]

So reading this thread now, I'm expecting PS5 to come out on top in DF videos.

For multiplats there wont be any practical difference between the 2 platforms this gen.

 

[Bogroll]

For multiplats there wont be any practical difference between the 2 platforms this gen.

So after all the talk this is it.

 

[geordiemp]

Does anyone remember (was it a patent) that Sony mentioned ages ago about swapping out textures on the fly for old games and replacing them with higher quality ones? Now that we've seen the Unreal 5 engine demo and resolution was just something nobody give two thoughts about (it looks 4K!), what if Sony's backward compatible solution kept the games at 1080p30 (or whatever resolution they play at) but just swapped in new 8K textures? The games would get an immediate facelift and look higher resolution than they really are.

Maybe but I dont think it really matters.

Games are either made to run on Jaguar (current) or next gen (Zen2) and as such current gen game will look VERY old in scope and what they are doing very quickly it will be stark and profound.

Tarting up current gen games only goes so far using the CPU from my toaster

 

[FeiRR]

I like the phrase 'equally less'. I really do.

 

[Shmunter]

Well, the thread is filled with pro Sony users with a Sony masturbatory rhetoric all around and any Xbox user is rapidly dogpilled to the point of not daring to go against the Sony masturbatory narrative. So it’s understandable you will have that impression after reading it.

Let’s see what happens in reality.

It’s reasonably clear to those that choose to be informed you have to admit.

XsX is an evolution of what came before. More speed & power as is customary - good. Whereas PS5 puts focus on targeting the memory pipeline with the aim of changing up the equation. Less focus on raw pixel pushing power, more focus on feeding data to the GPU.

XsX should perform better in cross gen titles. PS5 should offer more scope for a new breed of software targeting high quality assets or scene variety. This is not a matter of debate as much as common sense based on what we know today.

How it materialises in the hands of devs is yet to be seen in commercial products. It may get bloody, or it may be underwhelming.

 

[geordiemp]

So reading this thread now, I'm expecting PS5 to come out on top in DF videos.

Depends, if its a game programmed for Jaguar with current rendering techniques with a lick of paint or rays, XSX will win easily. Think current gen games resolution bumped.

True ground up next gen games using huge details and assets and streaming, Ps5 will look better IMO on current evidence and stuff shown. But its early.

So MS will win the first few rounds is my guess but loose more later, except Sony First party will be up to speed round 1 is my guess.

I can see the meltdowns on both sides already, fun awaits.

 

[Thirty7ven]

For multiplats there wont be any practical difference between the 2 platforms this gen.

Biggest difference will be the marketing I reckon.

Microsoft will be able to build their marketing around power and Sony will market around speed.

If Sony can build marketing around 1 or 2 seconds loading of a game, that will allow for great ads. Really short ads at it.

 

[FranXico]

It's like build up to a big boxing fight. The Ps5 has a more (in this thread of recent weeks ) confident I'm going to knock you out in the 2nd round boxer (followers/so called experts) I just want the fight to happen soon. Let's bring it on, let's see who runs of into the bushes when the fight starts.

Most third party games are not going to be optimized for fast data streaming. The result will either be a slight performance/sometimes resolution advantage on XsX (because the delta between the machines is really not that high) or lazy cross-gen ports where any differences will actually be meaningless or none.

Is that enough to satisfy you?

 

[geordiemp]

Biggest difference will be the marketing I reckon.

Microsoft will be able to build their marketing around power and Sony will market around speed.

If Sony can build marketing around 1 or 2 seconds loading of a game, that will allow for great ads. Really short ads at it.

No need at all, last gen games like say Gears 5 or TLOU2 you can bump them up with resolution and frame rates, add rays and other nice stuff all you want, they will still look dated in a year or even less.

Games built with Zen2 and fast sreaming in mind will look visually miles ahead it will be plain to see. Your eyes will do the judgement, as is the case with that uE5 demo.

Next gen will be about quality of pixels not how many of lower quality of them there as a number IMO.

Sony just need 1 first party game to utilise the pd5 SSD to make it look like that UE5 demo and thats it, no words needed. i am sure they know that, and do MS.

 

[FranXico]

If Sony can build marketing around 1 or 2 seconds loading of a game, that will allow for great ads. Really short ads at it.

"Greatness waits no longer."

 

[Wandering Leopard]

Biggest difference will be the marketing I reckon.

Microsoft will be able to build their marketing around power and Sony will market around speed.

If Sony can build marketing around 1 or 2 seconds loading of a game, that will allow for great ads. Really short ads at it.

I disagree, the most effective way to market a console is compelling content you can't find on any other platform. Marketing specifications/performance is fine at the start, but all that is forgotten once people actually see next gen games for themselves. It's arguably why MS have been investing more in their first party studios.

 

[Bogroll]

Most third party games are not going to be optimized for fast data streaming. The result will either be a slight performance/sometimes resolution advantage on XsX (because the delta between the machines is really not that high) or lazy cross-gen ports where any differences will actually be meaningless or none.

Is that enough to satisfy you?

This is what I originally thought, but now I was expecting no pop in on PS5, better Unreal 5 game details on PS5. So after all that I thought right.