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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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BGs

Industry Professional
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TheAssist

Member
Its funny that during console and new PC hardware hype phase I always learn so much about hardware. Not even sarcastically (well, not entirely), but there is so much content out there that tries to explain stuff to common folk that at the end of the day I have learned something.
I learned much more about how I/O influences cpu and gpu performance, what role the API has, how teraflops work and in what scenarios clock speed is important. I actually think thats really cool. You hast have to find trustworthy sources, which is the hardest part.
 
Its funny that during console and new PC hardware hype phase I always learn so much about hardware. Not even sarcastically (well, not entirely), but there is so much content out there that tries to explain stuff to common folk that at the end of the day I have learned something.
I learned much more about how I/O influences cpu and gpu performance, what role the API has, how teraflops work and in what scenarios clock speed is important. I actually think thats really cool. You hast have to find trustworthy sources, which is the hardest part.

It's the same for me. The hype and wait leads to binge reading and a renewed interest.
I think rather than trying to find a single trustworthy source it pays to read from as many different sources as possible. The things they agree on are likely pretty accurate. The things they might contradict each other on tells you where to focus your research. Everyone has biases. Literally everyone. And that's OK so long as you can recognise them, and also recognise your own and are aware of them if your goal is actually to understand something instead of just convincing yourself and your tribe of what you/they want to hear.
It's much more useful to learn how to find things out than to find some oracle(s) to do it for you.

You always need to find the source of any claim being made to see if it's being presented accurately or not. No end of times a careful reading/listening to the source of information can actually show it makes the opposite point someone was quoting it for, because they only half understood it but felt compelled to make a YouTube video or article on it anyway.
It's also critical to pay attention to the words being used and not jump to conclusions or make assumptions about what is being said, as when Linus was told "PS5's storage architecture is ahead of anything on PC", but instead heard "PS5's SSD is faster than anything you can buy for PC".

The Dunning-Kruger effect is real, and the people often most confident and passionate in telling you how something is are typically the ones that know the least about it. They know just enough to now think they're an expert. Some people get off on imagining people thinking they're an expert and will try to make what they write as jargon filled as possible to put some more weight behind what they don't really understand.

If your only interest is to genuinely try to learn more about how things work and what to expect then hype and speculation threads like this are full of these kinds of snares. Some people care more about what others might think than finding out what is really the case. Some people care more about how their tribe is perceived than any kind of interest in how things really work. I even think some people—on some level—believe that if they argue some technical point hard enough, and convince enough people that they're right about it, that reality will morph to fit what they believe.

There's a lot of cool information floating around about next-gen, and what advances we might expect to see, but to get to that information you need to brush aside and deal with some bizarre people that ultimately don't really care about that information—even if they superficially seem like they do—but ultimately care more about how they appear to others, and how their "team" appears to others.

Always find the original source of some information and check it. Always have as many different varied sources as possible.

It was just a known fact for some that PS5 has some expensive and cutting-edge cooling going on. I was even given a source for that claim recently, but the source didn't say anything of the sort. It merely said that typically console cooling solutions have a cost price of around a dollar, and that Sony could be spending more than that.

"Expensive and cutting-edge" cooling conjures images of water cooling or something, but in the context of the original source article that only really hinted at "expensive" in the context of it usually being $1 worth of basic fan and heatsink. Even $5 worth of multiple smaller fans would be 5x more expensive than typical, but is hardly "expensive and cutting-edge" in the world of cooling in general.
 

molly14

Member
i’m intrigued by what Cerny has done with the audio.He says you only need headphones to experience it.Dolby Atmos listening on headphones is already mind blowing ,so if he has beaten that ,then it will quite literally sound astonishing,can’t wait to find out soon.
 
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ToadMan

Member
I dont know why so many people didn't like HZD... Maybe because the facial animations? Well, i loved the game, and i'm waiting the sequel.

You know I tried to pick up HZD recently after buying it at launch - HZD2 might be a launch game after all.

But I just don't enjoy it. That USGamer review that was linked earlier sums up my thoughts on it. The story just doesn't grab me, I don't feel connection to the characters or their plight and I don't really like the enemy design - I find the whole tech mismatch post apocalyptic setting a bit labored.

That, coupled with the graphics - I didn't love them that much. I can see they're technically impressive but it felt like an open world where there wasn't much "space". For me RDR2 was a good open world - I like the idea of a wilderness and the "role playing" that comes from happening upon strange events, friends and enemies, wildlife and so on..

I just didn't get that from HZD - there were the robots, boars, foxes and the occasional brave who didn't have much to say.

Maybe I didn't get far enough into it - but I do remember one point where I decided to put it down again recently. I think I was going into mothers crown - I'd taken a strider and sprinted to the place and on the way a couple of robo-wolves got agro'd and chased me. They chased me right to the bridge entrance to Mother's Crown where there's a sentry post.

I go off my "horse" and prepared to be attacked - but the wolves didn't cross the bridge (fair enough) but the sentry, right there above them did absolutely nothing too. I thought the sentry would at least fire a few arrows or pretend to comprehend the world.

To me that kind of things just breaks what role playing and immersion I could feel for it - in that moment it's obviously a game to play, not a world to discover. I saved and switched off and I don't have much interest to return...

I'm not that interested about HZD2 unless it's a much better experience. As it stands if that's the PS5's only notable launch game I probably wouldn't pick one up at launch.
 

T-Cake

Member
i’m intrigued by what Cerny has done with the audio.He says you only need headphones to experience it.Dolby Atmos through headphones is already mind blowing ,so if he has beaten that ,then it will quite literally sound astonishing,can’t wait to find out soon.

I've never really bothered about sound in games - still using my tinny TV speakers - but it sounds like I'm going to need to get a decent pair of headphones for next-gen.
 
Think of the GPU CUs as buckets.

The theoretical maximum teraflops is how much water they can all hold if they were all filled to the brim multiplied by how many times per minute they are all moved from the source pool of water and poured out into the destination pool of water.

How full each bucket gets to be depends on the efficiency of the game code and the rest of the GPU machine that moves them around.

XSX is like having 52 buckets moving at 182mph.
PS5 is like having 36 buckets moving at 223mph.

Typical game code can only fill each bucket 30% full each time it comes around to the source pool again to fill up.

It takes time for the water to flow into these buckets as they scoop up water.

Sometimes when a bucket scoops up some water it can also catch a fish in it, and we don’t want that because my weird ass analogy says so.

In the 52 bucket version, if a fish is detected in the bucket as it’s moving from pool to pool, it has to empty the entire bucket out and go back and start scooping again.

In the 36 bucket version, if a fish is detected in the bucket as it’s moving from pool to pool, Mr Coherency Engine can tell Mr GPU cache scrubber to yoink the fish out and let the bucket and remaining water carry on its way.

This is simplified and the analogy could be expanded to account for more of what is going on and be a better fit for the kind of process that is happening, but this is a rough notion of what Matt was talking about.

Because the fish’d bucket hasn’t got to empty everything and start again the 36 bucket system averages a higher fill percentage per bucket because it never has empty ones to bring the average down.

Because the fish’d bucket doesn’t need to be refilled again from scratch, there are never any buckets being filled that will be tipped out and need to come back, meaning the average fill rate of buckets is higher in the 36 bucket system.

Because of this Matt is saying it’s not just as simple as counting the amount of buckets or the speed they travel.
In a perfect world with no fish the 52 bucket system delivers more water.
In a world with fish in your source water pool, you can’t make that calculation, and more than just that, Matt seems to think this fish plucking system is actually more significant than just counting buckets and bucket speed and multiplying them.

He’s suggesting the Coherency Engine and GPU cache scrubbers effectively increase CU occupancy by having them stall less often due to cache misses caused by entire caches being flushed instead of selectively pruned.
He’s suggesting that because refetching of cache data from system memory when entire caches are invalidated isn’t required, the system memory bandwidth requirement is less, because it’s not having to keep refetching the same pages as the good get thrown out with the bad.

It’s about efficiency vs brute force.
It’s about smarter buckets versus shit loads of them.

It’s suggesting what has been murmured for a while by developers in that there’s just not much difference between the two in real world game code. Not as much as comparing theoretical numbers might suggest.

PS5 is quite exotic, and these cache scrubbers are just another example of how streamlined and efficient the entire IO pipeline is to the point comparing numbers while assuming all other things are equal doesn’t really work. At least not to the extent some people are thinking.

It’s like if we had gasoline engines whereby spark plugs only fired 30% of the time in real world driving, even if they could do so 100% of the time in an engine stand in ideal conditions. If we wanted to compare two engines with different cylinder counts and maximum RPMs, but neglected to factor in that one has got some new and unconventional spark plugs that fire more than 30% of the time in real world driving, just multiplying the cylinder count by the RPM wouldn’t make for an accurate comparison.

PS5’s Coherency Engines and GPU cache scrubbers will make a real world difference to CU occupancy and effective GPU system memory bandwidth. We have no idea to what extent in typical game code. Matt thinks it will be significant.

This post needs to be nailed to every gaming site in the land. Fantastic and informative. I knew Cerny was a genius but this just cements it further. It's like 36 trucks not having to stop and throw out a lil fishy caught in their cargo. Each truck will be full and reach their destination faster and more efficiently on average. This thing is TIGHT.
 

Neo Blaster

Member
I dont know why so many people didn't like HZD... Maybe because the facial animations? Well, i loved the game, and i'm waiting the sequel.
I loved the game, I've got the platinum trophies for the main campaign and Frozen Wilds. Story, graphics and ranged combat are amazing, but I didn't enjoy melee combat and the climbing. I hope they get improved in the sequel. Oh, and we need flight, of course.
 
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Brudda26

Member
Alot of headphone partnerships usually end up just being branding. You see it with a lot of mobile phones partnering with headphone companies. They claim all this and that, usually just ends up being branded headphones with custom audio profile on the phone. I imagine this being much the same. I dont even know why they bothered partnering with them anyway, dont microsoft already make a good set of headphones.
 
Alot of headphone partnerships usually end up just being branding. You see it with a lot of mobile phones partnering with headphone companies. They claim all this and that, usually just ends up being branded headphones with custom audio profile on the phone. I imagine this being much the same. I dont even know why they bothered partnering with them anyway, dont microsoft already make a good set of headphones.
Well, Bang & Olufsen have a certain gravitas in the world of audio, and they're catering to the high-end segment, meaning most likely expensive price, so, they're probably not gonna be direct competition to anything Microsoft has out there. I don't think anything revolutionary it's gonna come out of this partnership, at all, but it's not a bad idea, in my opinion.
 

3liteDragon

Member
This post needs to be nailed to every gaming site in the land. Fantastic and informative. I knew Cerny was a genius but this just cements it further. It's like 36 trucks not having to stop and throw out a lil fishy caught in their cargo. Each truck will be full and reach their destination faster and more efficiently on average. This thing is TIGHT.
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Gamernyc78

Banned
As a cheap 4K TV user myself, I don't recommend seeking cheap 4K. Or either a top end 1080p or a mid range 4k TV.

Don't know what this even means. My tcl six series 65inch has great HDR, full gamut, dimming etc and only cost 750 and I out it against tvs tht are 2000 and rtngs will tell you the same. Pound for pound it is a beast. My games look sublime.
 
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