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[VFXVeteran]

'... have to be humble, because of MS track record.'

Whereas PS consistent history speaks for itself. I've always been a multiplat guy, but never once have I denied PS leadership in regards to quality titles.

You are not honest with yourself, nor the people your interact with.

The PS fans defy gravity by consistently thinking their exclusive games are far and above everything that has ever been released and NOT because of the quality of the game and excellent art direction (which I would certain agree with 100%) but because of it's technical advantage in hardware (which is complete BS). The only reason they can claim such things is because those game have never released to a different platform. This generation will be different.

no true scotsman fallacy

but the cutscenes have "true" SSS? back in beyond3d you criticized U4 SSS as "far away from the real thing"

SSS is an effect, it is simulated by different techniques some better than others specially since this is real time and as a result it varies even more from your offline renders, also they may differ by different settings(link) and light placement in the scene, a light from the back of a character wont cause much effect in the face as notorious as ears that dont have bones inside, artists have to consider that, cutscenes may use an improved version or better light placement or both, you can criticize the quality of the effect all you want(after all ND describes their SSS as "cheap"), mention parts of its process instead of calling it by its name all day if you want, but you cannot deny the effect is SSS by definition and used in gameplay, other games also use SSS, some more cheap than other but they are SSS like MGSV or Tomorrow Children

My claim is that SSS shader is using a more advanced algorithm, more samples, more accurate lobes, more scattered light paths, etc.. etc.. in cutscenes. The approximation is garbage in real-time gameplay to keep a FPS budget. Most games are using reverse diffuse lighting which is a cheap way of getting things to "look" like they are SSS without going through the light path tracing in the much better approximation.

Take it for what you will. I have contacts at ND and TLoU2 will be the first time they use SSS while in gameplay. A LOT of these techniques in games originate from VFX whitepapers. So not sure why you think my knowledge would be any different from RT rendering.

 

[polybius80]

My claim is that SSS shader is using a more advanced algorithm, more samples, more accurate lobes, more scattered light paths, etc.. etc.. in cutscenes. The approximation is garbage in real-time gameplay to keep a FPS budget. Most games are using reverse diffuse lighting which is a cheap way of getting things to "look" like they are SSS without going through the light path tracing in the much better approximation.

your claim was SSS was not present in gameplay and when proved wrong then you claimed it wasnt SSS

Take it for what you will. I have contacts at ND and TLoU2 will be the first time they use SSS while in gameplay. A LOT of these techniques in games originate from VFX whitepapers. So not sure why you think my knowledge would be any different from RT rendering.

"The approximation is garbage in real-time gameplay to keep a FPS budget." that means SSS is used in gameplay in U4 just that you dont like it limitations like the bouce light, that is totally different from "no SSS in gameplay", so TLoU2 wont be the first time they use SSS in gameplay just that TLoU2 will use a more advanced approximation of SSS in gameplay, I think we all expect TLoU2 to improve over U4, ND is a very talented team and U4 was their first game for the system from the gorund up after the initial experiment of porting the first TloU from cell architecture

A LOT of these techniques in games originate from VFX whitepapers. So not sure why you think my knowledge would be any different from RT rendering.

VFXVeteran : You also use terms like "light transport in the hair and skin" when the game isn't actually calculating true light transport but using a hack (that is often inaccurate and fails under different conditions)

Clukos: Welcome to video games.


I respect the industry where you work, I respect you and your knowledge just that RT its full of hacks and aproximations while in non RT the focus is different so the way graphics are made changes drastically try not to make absolute claims unless you double check, for example all this discussion started by a bad worded absolute claim that all cutscenes are "orders of magnitude" above game play graphically when the very first example of cutscenes in wikipedia(pac-man) proves that wrong

 

[VFXVeteran]

your claim was SSS was not present in gameplay and when proved wrong then you claimed it wasnt SSS

I'm not proven wrong at all. You have shown no paper on any game that says they use SSS during gameplay let alone SSS of the quality of a cutscene - which was the original argument.

"The approximation is garbage in real-time gameplay to keep a FPS budget." that means SSS is used in gameplay in U4 just that you dont like it limitations like the bouce light, that is totally different from "no SSS in gameplay", so TLoU2 wont be the first time they use SSS in gameplay just that TLoU2 will use a more advanced approximation of SSS in gameplay, I think we all expect TLoU2 to improve over U4, ND is a very talented team and U4 was their first game for the system from the gorund up after the initial experiment of porting the first TloU from cell architecture

An approximation using reverse diffuse lighting isn't really SSS. You can't call something SSS just because it tries to mimic SSS.

VFXVeteran : You also use terms like "light transport in the hair and skin" when the game isn't actually calculating true light transport but using a hack (that is often inaccurate and fails under different conditions)

I know it's a hack.

The issue is you trying to claim that cutscenes can be used as a benchmark for comparing graphics with other games and that's an unfair metric since cutscenes will use way better shaders and lighting. Those are the things that's the most expensive in these games. Even in the R&C demo trailer, the difference between the cutscenes and the actual gameplay is like night/day.

 

[VideodromeX]

Why VFX was banned?

 

[CuNi]

Why VFX was banned?

Check the "Bans" Tab on the bottom of the website.
This is the supposed reason:

Spoiler: Reasons

You were warned days ago about the 9TF comment. You're an industry professional - and like every other member - were offered the chance to back up this claim with evidence or stop the FUD. We await the 'xbox fan banned unfairly' comment.

 

[Psykodad]

Check the "Bans" Tab on the bottom of the website.
This is the supposed reason:

Spoiler: Reasons

You were warned days ago about the 9TF comment. You're an industry professional - and like every other member - were offered the chance to back up this claim with evidence or stop the FUD. We await the 'xbox fan banned unfairly' comment.

Not surpised. I'm pretty certain that he's connected to the xbox-discord group and uses his professional credibility as a leverage, like I said before.

 

[Andodalf]

Check the "Bans" Tab on the bottom of the website.
This is the supposed reason:

Spoiler: Reasons

You were warned days ago about the 9TF comment. You're an industry professional - and like every other member - were offered the chance to back up this claim with evidence or stop the FUD. We await the 'xbox fan banned unfairly' comment.

Not sure who would think VFX is an Xbox fan, he’s a PC guy all the way I thought? Also BS you can’t even speculate that a variable GPU freq is actually variable, when they already said it was variable. After the UE5 demo you had people “speculating” that the Xbox wouldn’t even get any 3rd party games because devs wouldn’t think it was “worth it”. Don’t see how that baseless speculation is any better. In fact, that was worse.

 

[Ahmady]

No, there is no secret sauce, it's the same thing as "power of the cloud". It will never be a thing. Just look at the evidence:

We have PS5 ONLY games, there not constrained by PS4 nor PC, so they can take fully advantage of the SSD and now lets look at the result:

GT7 has some major LOD issues, Popins etc. just look here:

The lights suddenly appearing:



and here:




or the background suddenly appearing, looks like a snake on the back right:



and here:



and regarding R&C, well these are just small portions of the level that you can drag to you basically:



there are even the same enemies:



and if there is a level change, then you actually get a huge hidden loading screen, just look here, as soon as it zooms in, you have a loading screen:



same can be easily done on XSX and I think this looks even faster and more impressive on the medium:


And that's even an indie only and this is PC too.

So yeah, it's all marketing, same as "power of the cloud" and as long as Sony didn't show us any different, we shouldn't believe it, especially the whole "its year ahead" or like a midgen refresh or "years ahead of anything on PC", well this stuff shown here is easily possible on any SSD. maybe even on PS4/Xbox One, I mean titanfall 2/portal did something very similar

 

[Trueblakjedi]

No, there is no secret sauce, it's the same thing as "power of the cloud". It will never be a thing. Just look at the evidence:

We have PS5 ONLY games, there not constrained by PS4 nor PC, so they can take fully advantage of the SSD and now lets look at the result:

GT7 has some major LOD issues, Popins etc. just look here:

The lights suddenly appearing:



and here:




or the background suddenly appearing, looks like a snake on the back right:



and here:



and regarding R&C, well these are just small portions of the level that you can drag to you basically:



there are even the same enemies:



and if there is a level change, then you actually get a huge hidden loading screen, just look here, as soon as it zooms in, you have a loading screen:



same can be easily done on XSX and I think this looks even faster and more impressive on the medium:


And that's even an indie only and this is PC too.

So yeah, it's all marketing, same as "power of the cloud" and as long as Sony didn't show us any different, we shouldn't believe it, especially the whole "its year ahead" or like a midgen refresh or "years ahead of anything on PC", well this stuff shown here is easily possible on any SSD. maybe even on PS4/Xbox One, I mean titanfall 2/portal did something very similar

Flight simulator 2020 is a definitive demonstration of the power of the cloud.

Azure reference files = 4PB versus offline install of 150 GB

 

[Nikana]

Not sure who would think VFX is an Xbox fan, he’s a PC guy all the way I thought? Also BS you can’t even speculate that a variable GPU freq is actually variable, when they already said it was variable. After the UE5 demo you had people “speculating” that the Xbox wouldn’t even get any 3rd party games because devs wouldn’t think it was “worth it”. Don’t see how that baseless speculation is any better. In fact, that was worse.

I agree he's a PC guy through and through but the 9TF comment is pretty trolly. Hes lately come off as more "I told you so" after the ps5 reveal and to his credit he was right about some things but you're on a gaming forum. You aren't going to change anyone's mind that was made up before the PS4 and Xbox one launched that their ps5 will better than the Xbox series X and vice versa.I'm not sure what he's trying to acomplish anymore.

 

[Andodalf]

I agree he's a PC guy through and through but the 9TF comment is pretty trolly. Hes lately come off as more "I told you so" after the ps5 reveal and to his credit he was right about some things but you're on a gaming forum. You aren't going to change anyone's mind that was made up before the PS4 and Xbox one launched that their ps5 will better than the Xbox series X and vice versa.I'm not sure what he's trying to acomplish anymore.

I think he cared more about just being right/ accurate than convincing people, which I’ll take over people baselessly saying their platform is better any day.

 

[Nikana]

I think he cared more about just being right/ accurate than convincing people, which I’ll take over people baselessly saying their platform is better any day.

fair enough. I concur. I tend to engage in conversations about industry strategies and speculation vs hardware warring so my exposure to him is somewhat limited. But I agree that his posts tend to come off that way which are easier for me to digest than the blind biased.

 

[Faithless83]

No, there is no secret sauce, it's the same thing as "power of the cloud". It will never be a thing. Just look at the evidence:

We have PS5 ONLY games, there not constrained by PS4 nor PC, so they can take fully advantage of the SSD and now lets look at the result:

GT7 has some major LOD issues, Popins etc. just look here:

The lights suddenly appearing:



and here:




or the background suddenly appearing, looks like a snake on the back right:



and here:



and regarding R&C, well these are just small portions of the level that you can drag to you basically:



there are even the same enemies:



and if there is a level change, then you actually get a huge hidden loading screen, just look here, as soon as it zooms in, you have a loading screen:



same can be easily done on XSX and I think this looks even faster and more impressive on the medium:


And that's even an indie only and this is PC too.

So yeah, it's all marketing, same as "power of the cloud" and as long as Sony didn't show us any different, we shouldn't believe it, especially the whole "its year ahead" or like a midgen refresh or "years ahead of anything on PC", well this stuff shown here is easily possible on any SSD. maybe even on PS4/Xbox One, I mean titanfall 2/portal did something very similar

Not gonna lie, you had my attention on the GT7 pop in. It's a game in development and this is likely to be changed.

But then, you compared R&C loading an entire new level in 2 seconds, to a scene transition lacking textures and geometry of some indie game.
And using the words "huge hidden loading screen" to describe R&C.

But go on... this thread is golden.
I was thinking of skipping the thread since its 15 pages long, but I need to read it through now.
Thank you!

 

[KingT731]

I think it's clear

No, there is no secret sauce, it's the same thing as "power of the cloud". It will never be a thing. Just look at the evidence:

We have PS5 ONLY games, there not constrained by PS4 nor PC, so they can take fully advantage of the SSD and now lets look at the result:

GT7 has some major LOD issues, Popins etc. just look here:


and regarding R&C, well these are just small portions of the level that you can drag to you basically:



there are even the same enemies:



and if there is a level change, then you actually get a huge hidden loading screen, just look here, as soon as it zooms in, you have a loading screen:


same can be easily done on XSX and I think this looks even faster and more impressive on the medium:
And that's even an indie only and this is PC too.

So yeah, it's all marketing, same as "power of the cloud" and as long as Sony didn't show us any different, we shouldn't believe it, especially the whole "its year ahead" or like a midgen refresh or "years ahead of anything on PC", well this stuff shown here is easily possible on any SSD. maybe even on PS4/Xbox One, I mean titanfall 2/portal did something very similar

I think it will remain to be seen until we get the retail releases(GT7 definitely need some polish). The transition in The Medium looks cool but we don't know if that's indicative of gameplay or a cutscene but also I would say just because there is a transition during gameplay doesn't imply that it's a loading screen. Mark Cerny spoke about the use of transitions simply to smooth things over (he called some very fast transitions in scenes jarring)

 

[DForce]

Clear and convincing evidence of the SSD speed at work, but the OP makes this post, along with several others giving him the thumbs up in agreement?

Come on, people.


It changed to about 5 different levels in less than 10 seconds? That's ridiculously fast.

 

[CuNi]

Not sure who would think VFX is an Xbox fan, he’s a PC guy all the way I thought? Also BS you can’t even speculate that a variable GPU freq is actually variable, when they already said it was variable. After the UE5 demo you had people “speculating” that the Xbox wouldn’t even get any 3rd party games because devs wouldn’t think it was “worth it”. Don’t see how that baseless speculation is any better. In fact, that was worse.

I completely agree with you. I would even add that in the linked post to his ban he said "~9TF on average" which would come along with a console not being utilized 100% all the time, just like the Xbox will end up.
It surely does feel like SonyGAF sometimes that even vetted people who dare speak negatively or so of Sony get banned while some members run rampage with troll or console warrior posts and get away with it.
Anyway, I don't want to be banned myself, guess we should go back to being on topic.

 

[Psykodad]

I completely agree with you. I would even add that in the linked post to his ban he said "~9TF on average" which would come along with a console not being utilized 100% all the time, just like the Xbox will end up.
It surely does feel like SonyGAF sometimes that even vetted people who dare speak negatively or so of Sony get banned while some members run rampage with troll or console warrior posts and get away with it.
Anyway, I don't want to be banned myself, guess we should go back to being on topic.

He failed to back-up his claim towards the mods, which is why he got banned.

 

[SleepDoctor]

I think he cared more about just being right/ accurate than convincing people, which I’ll take over people baselessly saying their platform is better any day.

The 9tf comment being bannable is ridiculous when you read some of the bullshit that is said about the xsx.

The 9tf thing is not as farfetched as the dumb shit stated in the spec thread. You can't prove it true or false. We only know what the boosted clock is and there probably won't ever be a way to prove it or dismiss it.

Also you have to take into account how much vfx has been attacked by fanboys ever since he said Horizon was coming to pc. Yet nobody gets banned for it. Look how they ran off the df too.

 

[CuNi]

He failed to back-up his claim towards the mods, which is why he got banned.

So it is not common knowledge that a console won't be 100% utilized all the time?
Constant 90 to 95 util would net the console 9 to 9.5Tf which is what I would expect with a 100% util peak around its 10tf mark.
Xbox won't be 100% utilized as well, I don't know what's there to proof?

 

[DoctaThompson]

It changed to about 5 different levels in less than 10 seconds?

Exactly. It took about 2 seconds or so to load each transition. No where near instant compared to how some hyped it up.

I completely agree with you. I would even add that in the linked post to his ban he said "~9TF on average" which would come along with a console not being utilized 100% all the time, just like the Xbox will end up.
It surely does feel like SonyGAF sometimes that even vetted people who dare speak negatively or so of Sony get banned while some members run rampage with troll or console warrior posts and get away with it.
Anyway, I don't want to be banned myself, guess we should go back to being on topic.

I'd love to comment on that, but I already know what will happen to my account if I do. I wonder if the mods have some secret information that we don't know about the teraflops. Cause it wouldn't make sense for him to get silenced, yet you have people running around rampant and spreading misinformation all the time, with no repercussions. It's a little strange I must say. But I guess back on topic?

 

[Nikana]

So it is not common knowledge that a console won't be 100% utilized all the time?
Constant 90 to 95 util would net the console 9 to 9.5Tf which is what I would expect with a 100% util peak around its 10tf mark.
Xbox won't be 100% utilized as well, I don't know what's there to proof?

Actually reading this out of context I can see how it would be trolly but in the context of the conversation it's pretty hard to say he was even talking about the variable clocks. It's very possible he was simply talking about GPU utilization as a whole.

But it was said he was given the opportunity to prove/explain his claim and he didn't.

 

[Psykodad]

So it is not common knowledge that a console won't be 100% utilized all the time?
Constant 90 to 95 util would net the console 9 to 9.5Tf which is what I would expect with a 100% util peak around its 10tf mark.
Xbox won't be 100% utilized as well, I don't know what's there to proof?

The reason was very clear:
"You were warned days ago about the 9TF comment. You're an industry professional - and like every other member - were offered the chance to back up this claim with evidence or stop the FUD. We await the 'xbox fan banned unfairly' comment."

Him being an industry professional and letting everybody know at every opportunity, makes his words carry more weight.
He seems to forget that it's a double-edged sword.

Besides, Cerny made it clear that PS5 runs at 10.3tflop the majority of time and in rare cases clocks down, but only by a couple %.

His claim contradicts what Cerny, the designer of the PS5, said.

 

[Nikana]

The reason was very clear:
"You were warned days ago about the 9TF comment. You're an industry professional - and like every other member - were offered the chance to back up this claim with evidence or stop the FUD. We await the 'xbox fan banned unfairly' comment."

Him being an industry professional and letting everybody know at every opportunity, makes his words carry more weight.
He seems to forget that it's a double-edged sword.

Besides, Cerny made it clear that PS5 runs at 10.3tflop the majority of time and in rare cases clocks down, but only by a couple %.

His claim contradicts what Cerny, the designer of the PS5, said.

He wasn't talking about the variable clocks though. He was talking about GPU utilization as a whole in the context of the technology and how they are leveraged with power draws and curves. Has nothing to do with what cerny said.

 

[Psykodad]

Exactly. It took about 2 seconds or so to load each transition. No where near instant compared to how some hyped it up.

Nobody made a claim that PS5 games will have instant at all times.
Only that it's so fast that load times are non-existent to minimal.

2 secs is pretty minimal, especially given the fact that it has to load entire dynamic worlds with all kinds of stuff happening everywhere.
Plus, Cerny already explained during Road to PS5, that it's possible for devs to have to add ways to actually slow down transitions to avoid jarring situations.

Could well be the case that played a role to in the R&C demo.

 

[-Arcadia-]

You guys should take this to the ban thread versus a dark corner of Gaf. The final decision isn't a democracy, but your voice matters, and the team listens. I've never seen anyone banned for professionally, respectfully speaking up -- this isn't Reddit.

That said, if Cerny did say it's a 10.3 TF system most of the time, and doesn't dip much below that, and VFX didn't expand on his comments when asked... that's justifiable.

However, I do agree there have been far worse cases of inaccuracies, particularly from the same people likely smashing the report button on VFX.

My two cents anyway. Much love for hearing me out.

 

[Psykodad]

He wasn't talking about the variable clocks though. He was talking about GPU utilization as a whole in the context of the technology and how they are leveraged with power draws and curves. Has nothing to do with what cerny said.

Whatever it is, it was reason for a ban, apparently.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Accusing SONY of not properly displacing the SSD is crazy when you look at what was displayed it was gameplay, loading times next gen will be key.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

He wasn't talking about the variable clocks though. He was talking about GPU utilization as a whole in the context of the technology and how they are leveraged with power draws and curves. Has nothing to do with what cerny said.

GPU utilization is pretty much always 100% on my PC

Why wouldn't it be the same on consoles?

 

[Nikana]

GPU utilization is pretty much always 100% on my PC

Why wouldn't it be the same on consoles?

That doesn't mean you are getting the full util of the card. It's like with a power supply. Even if it's being drawn 100 percent of its power it's not going to get you what it's rated for in terms of watts. There's no such thing as 100 percent utilization of a spec in GPUs.

 

[sinnergy]

Just take the ban, like me, been banned for what feels like months in the next gen thread, my life is now more peaceful.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

That doesn't mean you are getting the full util of the card. It's like with a power supply. Even if it's being drawn 100 percent of its power it's not going to get you what it's rated for in terms of watts. There's no such thing as 100 percent utilization of a spec in GPUs.

So what, on average he's saying the PS5 won't utilize all 36 cores then?

 

[Psykodad]

The 9tf comment being bannable is ridiculous when you read some of the bullshit that is said about the xsx.

The 9tf thing is not as farfetched as the dumb shit stated in the spec thread. You can't prove it true or false. We only know what the boosted clock is and there probably won't ever be a way to prove it or dismiss it.

Also you have to take into account how much vfx has been attacked by fanboys ever since he said Horizon was coming to pc. Yet nobody gets banned for it. Look how they ran off the df too.

Didn't he also claim the Demon's Souls trailer contained CGI according to his Playstation source and then after it turned out it wasn't CGI, he quickly said he did another check his Playstation source and he confirmed it wasn't CGI?

 

[Nikana]

So what, on average he's saying the PS5 won't utilize all 36 cores then?

No he's saying that on average the card won't ever reach 10.3 because that's Impossible. The same way the series X won't reach 12. Meaning the average will be lower in the 9TF range on the ps5.

 

[Psykodad]

No he's saying that on average the card won't ever reach 10.3 because that's Impossible. The same way the series X won't reach 12. Meaning the average will be lower in the 9TF range on the ps5.

So, contradicting Cerny.

 

[Nikana]

So, contradicting Cerny.

No, that's not was cerny said.

 

[DForce]

Exactly. It took about 2 seconds or so to load each transition. No where near instant compared to how some hyped it up.

You're also looking at pre-alpha footage. I don't know why people try hard to it has no benefits when it's clear by looking at the gameplay video.

 

[SleepDoctor]

Didn't he also claim the Demon's Souls trailer contained CGI according to his Playstation source and then after it turned out it wasn't CGI, he quickly said he did another check his Playstation source and he confirmed it wasn't CGI?

I wouldn't know. I don't follow people around here, much less because they make a statement I don't agree with.

 

[Psykodad]

No, that's not was cerny said.

Cerny:
"We expect the GPU to spend most of it's time at, or close to, that frequency and performance. (2.23GHz/10.3Tflops)"

That's not 9Tflops then.

 

[DoctaThompson]

Nobody made a claim that PS5 games will have instant at all times.
Only that it's so fast that load times are non-existent to minimal.

2 secs is pretty minimal, especially given the fact that it has to load entire dynamic worlds with all kinds of stuff happening everywhere.
Plus, Cerny already explained during Road to PS5, that it's possible for devs to have to add ways to actually slow down transitions to avoid jarring situations.

Could well be the case that played a role to in the R&C demo.

Nobody made that claim? As in like ever? Not even on this forum? I'm not sure if you have read the multitudes of this exact thing, before the reveal, and even after the reveal. People are still claiming instant loading, when after it was proven that it isn't instant.

 

[Psykodad]

I wouldn't know. I don't follow people around here, much less because they make a statement I don't agree with.

Neither do I, I happen to notice his posts sometime.

Nobody made that claim? As in like ever? Not even on this forum? I'm not sure if you have read the multitudes of this exact thing, before the reveal, and even after the reveal. People are still claiming instant loading, when after it was proven that it isn't instant.

Possible of instant loading, yes. Not instant loading at all times in all games.

 

[Optimistic Gamer]

I hate suddenly seeing pop-in I didn't notice at first Can't un-see the windows on the left.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Not sure who would think VFX is an Xbox fan, he’s a PC guy all the way I thought? Also BS you can’t even speculate that a variable GPU freq is actually variable, when they already said it was variable. After the UE5 demo you had people “speculating” that the Xbox wouldn’t even get any 3rd party games because devs wouldn’t think it was “worth it”. Don’t see how that baseless speculation is any better. In fact, that was worse.

Fair enough. But realistically, what do you think the rendering limit will be with a GPU that does ~9TFLOPS on average? This is a hard limit. While there are several things that can be implemented into games, there are limits (i.e. resolution of both textures and final screen resolution as well as FPS) at which they can be done.

BTW, EA has Battlefront for photogrammetry so it's been seen already and nothing new.

I think it's because he claims that the average TFs of the PS5 is 9TFs. That doesn't look like specification to me because there isn't any evidence out there that the average TFs of the PS5 is 9.

I mean if he said it could be possible that it reaches 9 then it wouldn't be an issue because I've seen many people do that. But to claim that the average is 9TFs is a different story.

That's what I think happened.

 

[Nikana]

Cerny:
"We expect the GPU to spend most of it's time at, or close to, that frequency and performance. (2.23GHz/10.3Tflops)"

That's not 9Tflops then.

That sentence does not refute what VFX or what I said. Saying a card will always be at one frequency is not the same as saying what its draw is.

Even though its at that frequency it will not draw 10.3 teraflops. Thats what its "capable" of drawing at that frequency. Thats what the GPU is rated for but like I said in another post theres no such thing as 100 percent efficiency. The average draw of the card, or any GPU on the planet, will never reach its max efficiency/theoretical power because thats impossible. What he said had nothing to do with the variable clocks. He was talking about the average draw of the card which will not be 10.3 ever. If you take what the card is capable of and what its actual draw will be, its going to be lower than the theoretical max.

Its like when a car is rated at 250 BHP. Thats what the engine is capable of doing but its never going to draw 250 BHP because theres hundreds of other factors that will limit it.

 

[Psykodad]

That sentence does not refute what VFX or what I said. Saying a card will always be at one frequency is not the same as saying what its draw is.

Even though its at that frequency it will not draw 10.3 teraflops. Thats what its "capable" of drawing at that frequency. Thats what the GPU is rated for but like I said in another post theres no such thing as 100 percent efficiency. The average draw of the card, or any GPU on the planet, will never reach its max efficiency/theoretical power because thats impossible. What he said had nothing to do with the variable clocks. He was talking about the average draw of the card which will not be 10.3 ever. If you take what the card is capable of and what its actual draw will be, its going to be lower than the theoretical max.

Its like when a car is rated at 250 BHP. Thats what the engine is capable of doing but its never going to draw 250 BHP because theres hundreds of other factors that will limit it.

The key-part is "most of it's time at, or close to".

Put that next to the highlighted part of his quote mentioned in the post above yours and you have a disingenuous claim, at the very least.
And like the mods said, he's professional, so should know better if he can't back it up.

That's what you get for beating your chest all the time.

But I think it's time to get back on-topic: the SSD.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

What the fuck is this Xbox Discord group people are constantly bringing up It’s discussed like it’s the boogeyman.

 

[Nikana]

The key-part is "most of it's time at, or close to".

Put that next to the highlighted part of his quote mentioned in the post above yours and you have a disingenuous claim, at the very least.
And like the mods said, he's professional, so should know better if he can't back it up.

That's what you get for beating your chest all the time.

But I think it's time to get back on-topic: the SSD.

Not going to keep arguing this here as its OT. But you are misunderstanding. I implore you to join the talk in the ban justice thread.

 

[DoctaThompson]

The key-part is "most of it's time at, or close to".

Put that next to the highlighted part of his quote mentioned in the post above yours and you have a disingenuous claim, at the very least.
And like the mods said, he's professional, so should know better if he can't back it up.

That's what you get for beating your chest all the time.

But I think it's time to get back on-topic: the SSD.

So if it won't achieve 10.3 (because nothing is 100% efficient, whether that be a power supply, car engine, amplifier, etc), what would be wrong with saying ”~9TF"?
~9TF ranges anywhere from 9.00 to 9.99. which is not hard to believe at all if you know anything about the topic. But I'll leave this alone, as I don't want to be banned.

 

[MasterCornholio]

That sentence does not refute what VFX or what I said. Saying a card will always be at one frequency is not the same as saying what its draw is

I think the issue was when he claimed the average would be 9TFs.

Average: "A number expressing the central or typical value in a set of data, in particular the mode, median, or (most commonly) the mean, which is calculated by dividing the sum of the values in the set by their number."

I've also speculated that due to a variable frequency the number could drop to 9TFs in extremely rare cases which fits with what Mark Cerny said about the system. But I never claimed that it would be the average value of the PS5s GPU power.

It doesn't make sense for Sony to give us that 10.2 TF number if can only hit 9TFs most of the time.

Also would like to end my comment with that I know both are giving us theoretical maxes. So when developers perfectly code for the GPU and take full advantage of it they will get those numbers from the GPU. However that won't always happen since the GPU won't always need to out that level of calculations. Like to get a simple 2D indie point and click adventure game shouldn't take 12TFs of power to get it to run at 4K 60FPs.

 

[MasterCornholio]

So if it won't achieve 10.3 (because nothing is 100% efficient, whether that be a power supply, car engine, amplifier, etc), what would be wrong with saying ”~9TF"?
~9TF ranges anywhere from 9.00 to 9.99. which is not hard to believe at all if you know anything about the topic. But I'll leave this alone, as I don't want to be banned.

I think you are misunderstanding why he was banned.

 

[Psykodad]

So if it won't achieve 10.3 (because nothing is 100% efficient, whether that be a power supply, car engine, amplifier, etc), what would be wrong with saying ”~9TF"?
~9TF ranges anywhere from 9.00 to 9.99. which is not hard to believe at all if you know anything about the topic. But I'll leave this alone, as I don't want to be banned.

Because if it's mostly 9.9-10.2 it'd a 10TF.

And most of the time at or close to 10.3 means 10TF