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[GooseMan69]

His understanding of the game’s story is so surface level that it’s embarrassing. Same with other youtubers like Penguinz0 (who I love).

Totally cool to be like “this games not for me. Its narrative beats didn’t hit the mark for me personally”. But when you start throwing around terms like “bad writing”, you should at least show a basic understanding of the actual themes and whatnot.

 

[Paracelsus]

This game has so much potential for dark humor comedy.
They should just make a Scary Movie-like parody.

Agreed.

Most of the review is essentially a him trying to create "plot holes" or "out of character moments" most of which don't actually exist in order to validate his dislike. Seems expressing your internal feelings is far more difficult for alot of people than creating an arbitrary bullet point list.

Then this is the review you want

 

[kittoo]

Are there spoilers in the review?

 

[petran79]

Review saves me from watching the game.

"the last of them"? Perfect title

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I find it is pretty hard to find real and critical reviews of big AAA games from review sites nowadays - especially games which come from certain developers. When something like RDR2 or TLOU2 or Cyberpunk is releasew, you already what the tone of the reviews of the mainstream online media is going to be.

It may be that my taste just differs so much from these sites and their reviewers but sometimes it just seems like the reviews are more about the developer than the game.

Youtube is my go-to source for deep game reviews, Joe is one among them. At least I know they pick the games apart saying honestly what they thought was good and what wasn't. Like Skill Up in his Cyberpunk preview, instead of just gushing about it.

When you got most game sites reliant on game maker swag, ad revenue and early copies for their content, ,you know youre going to get trouble and biased reviews.

That's why guys like Joe with a big enough fanbase and random YTers who don't give a shit about signing relationship deals with game studios are the best source of critical reviews.

The drawback is the reviews come later since they don't get sent early copies. Joe's review is almost two weeks from release. Probably among the last reviews to go up out of all known gamers.

That's the good thing about movies. They get grilled to the bone and there's nothing any studio can do about it because aside from the couple of trailers which are public, there isn't this paid/freebie relationship between movie studios and the 100 movie critics reviewing a movie on RT. So there's nothing really to go on except maybe the reviewers getting an early viewing.

But even that doesn't seem to affect the relationship because when was the last time a movie reviewer said they got blacklisted by Disney or Universal for giving a movie a thumbs down? Never.

Movie studios have enough balls to accept bad reviews, critics have balls to dissect movies as they see fit, and the media/newspaper/site that employs that critic has balls to let the critic say what they want instead of sucking up for movie studio banner ads. A lot more freedom to work with in movies where every side can do their own thing and man up and accept reviews.

 

[Chromata]

And we are saying it failed HARD. Why is it so hard to grasp that just because the game director wanted to make you feel something doesn't absolve it from it's poor execution.

Why is it so hard to grasp that just because you disliked a story it doesn't mean it's bad?

The game actually succeeded in a lot of the emotional beats it was trying to convey which is evident in the strong opinions composing the bulk of its reception.

My comment towards you wasn't even about its successes or failures. I was just pointing out to you why the story was structured that way and why changing its structure would change the affect it has on the player. Whether that's better or worse is subjective.

 

[ZehDon]

if you guys want a somewhat decent review, watch this... if you do not like the story ... its not going to make you like the story but... I really like this review...

Thanks for sharing. A well written review, but it's worth pointing out that the tag line for that channel is "This isn't a review of [Game Title], this is a review of what it is like to live with someone who plays [Game Title]". It's a channel dedicated to the "backseat gamer" experience. A game being good to watch over being good to play isn't praise, in my opinion - they seem to have declared Uncharted 4 the best game you can watch, for example. What does that say about the game itself when the person watching it is having an identical if not better experience to the person playing it? For me, it means the game-play adds nothing - and that's not good. It's an interesting premise for a review, in any case.

 

[DavidGzz]

Waaah! Game didn't go the way I wanted it to go. Sounds about right.

 

[Paracelsus]

Thanks for sharing. A well written review, but it's worth pointing out that the tag line for that channel is "This isn't a review of [Game Title], this is a review of what it is like to live with someone who plays [Game Title]". It's a channel dedicated to the "backseat gamer" experience. A game being good to watch over being good to play isn't praise, in my opinion - they seem to have declared Uncharted 4 the best game you can watch, for example. What does that say about the game itself when the person watching it is having an identical if not better experience to the person playing it? For me, it means the game-play adds nothing - and that's not good. It's an interesting premise for a review, in any case.

Moviegames were always made with let's players in mind.
Uncharted 2 is a fun game and a great movie you can rewatch over and over.

 

[Collin]

Thanks for sharing. A well written review, but it's worth pointing out that the tag line for that channel is "This isn't a review of [Game Title], this is a review of what it is like to live with someone who plays [Game Title]". It's a channel dedicated to the "backseat gamer" experience. A game being good to watch over being good to play isn't praise, in my opinion - they seem to have declared Uncharted 4 the best game you can watch, for example. What does that say about the game itself when the person watching it is having an identical if not better experience to the person playing it? For me, it means the game-play adds nothing - and that's not good. It's an interesting premise for a review, in any case.

You’re tapping into something interesting here, definitely a video game philosophical idea that’s really worth exploring as the medium continues to develop.

There’s no denying that TLOUII was built from the ground up more like a movie than your average game. But as pretty a big gamer myself, frankly I need strong characters or strong environmental storytelling (something like Souls or even Breath of the Wild) AND great gameplay to fully engage me all the way. I have a theory that if gameplay is fun to play it’s fun to watch. TLOU in particular blends narrative and gameplay better than most - the combat actually feels very cinematic with sick camera zooms and great sound effects. That added drama adds to the fun for me and is why i think it’s so engaging to watch. Anecdotally, my girlfriend who really only plays Animal Crossing and Mario on her switch was glued to my playthrough of TLOUII (and not just the cutscenes).

If you look at the best selling Playstation exclusives, it seems that most people are in that same camp as me right now in terms of interest. It’s just where our medium is headed, for better or worse. (Personally I think it’s for the better but I understand why some are hesitant with game’s more cinematic approach as of late.) But for the record, I think Sony is nailing the careful blend of narrative and gameplay in my eyes.

 

[Halo is Back]

Why is it so hard to grasp that just because you disliked a story it doesn't mean it's bad?

The game actually succeeded in a lot of the emotional beats it was trying to convey which is evident in the strong opinions composing the bulk of its reception.

My comment towards you wasn't even about its successes or failures. I was just pointing out to you why the story was structured that way and why changing its structure would change the affect it has on the player. Whether that's better or worse is subjective.

So what? Am I not allowed to make criticisms of it's execution? It's very easy to see what Neil was trying to do, and in my opinion he did it poorly.

 

[Shouta]

Are there spoilers in the review?

Yeah, lots of spoilers.

I agree with just about everything Angry Joe said. Though the game is even worse in my eyes. I don't understand who Naughty Dog was targeting with this trash. As a fan of the original, I wish I had never played it. There is zero innovation here, and the "new" story (which is bad) just shits all over the existing characters.

That's kind of the big question. Who was Naughty Dog targeting with this because it's sure as hell doesn't feel like they wanted to target fans of the first game. There must have been someone there that knew it wouldn't go over well if they used the, almost universally, beloved characters from the first game in such a way.

 

[ZehDon]

You’re tapping into something interesting here, definitely a video game philosophical idea that’s really worth exploring as the medium continues to develop.

There’s no denying that TLOUII was built from the ground up more like a movie than your average game. But as pretty a big gamer myself, frankly I need strong characters or strong environmental storytelling (something like Souls or even Breath of the Wild) AND great gameplay to fully engage me all the way. I have a theory that if gameplay is fun to play it’s fun to watch. TLOU in particular blends narrative and gameplay better than most - the combat actually feels very cinematic with sick camera zooms and great sound effects. That added drama adds to the fun for me and is why i think it’s so engaging to watch. Anecdotally, my girlfriend who really only plays Animal Crossing and Mario on her switch was glued to my playthrough of TLOUII (and not just the cutscenes).

If you look at the best selling Playstation exclusives, it seems that most people are in that same camp as me right now in terms of interest. It’s just where our medium is headed, for better or worse. (Personally I think it’s for the better but I understand why some are hesitant with game’s more cinematic approach as of late.) But for the record, I think Sony is nailing the careful blend of narrative and gameplay in my eyes.

Excellent post. I certainly respect that position - who am I to disagree with what engages and entertains you? Glad you’ve found experiences you enjoy and get something out of. It’s what it’s all about.

For whatever It’s worth, my perspective is different, but a simple one: good characters, understandable themes - they apply to every story telling medium; games, books, movies. But video games is the only medium where the audience member can actively participate in the narrative as an agent. These “movie games” ultimately ignore the player - no choices, no decisions, no impact. It’s all about “The Writing”. For me, that’s a crying shame. I’ll always prefer Mass Effect 2, Deus Ex, or KOTOR, over the “movie game”, because they invite me to express myself. The consequences of my actions have more meaning because they were REAL actions, REAL choices. There’s no mo capped cutscene about someone crying about something I didn’t do that can equal the impact of me seeing the consequences of my own very real decisions. Anyway, thanks for coming to my Ted Talk

 

[Dipsed]

Lol

Joe just saved The Last of Us. I give this Review 10/10!

 

[DragoonKain]

I haven't finished the game yet, but watching the review I agree with a lot of his criticisms.

 

[SantaC]

same score as PewdiePie gave it.

 

[Halo is Back]

No one said you're not allowed to but an opinion without anything behind it is as interesting as a fart in the wind.

Omg dude I have already explained myself and my reasons behind them in multiple threads and I can link you more videos that mirror my opinions. Must be hard constantly defending this game.

 

[TGO]

Waaah! Game didn't go the way I wanted it to go. Sounds about right.

Doesn't that apply to every negative review of anything?

Most of the review is essentially a him trying to create "plot holes" or "out of character moments" most of which don't actually exist in order to validate his dislike

no matter what you keep telling people
Joel would actually run over a guy rather than find out if he really needs help
"Trust no one"
This mentality is repeated so many times
In the original you can't just brush it off as "oh they was looking for people"
"People change"

Spoiler

So it's in character of a cautious minded person to go with a stranger to their group that just happened to be hiding out on your front door, feed them all the information about the town, their supply's and who they are?
And she was heading towards the town, yet their cabin was the closest place?
Really?

Everything is just plot progression convenience to be overlooked, which obviously most people did.
Like I said before, it's still TLOU and I'm enjoying the gameplay parts but some stuff stick out like a sore thumb when it comes to it's story.
It stinks of a rewrite.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Why is it so hard to grasp that just because you disliked a story it doesn't mean it's bad?

The game actually succeeded in a lot of the emotional beats it was trying to convey which is evident in the strong opinions composing the bulk of its reception.

My comment towards you wasn't even about its successes or failures. I was just pointing out to you why the story was structured that way and why changing its structure would change the affect it has on the player. Whether that's better or worse is subjective.

I don't think the feelings neil wanted to convey was meant to lead people fo tearing up the discs lmao

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Omg dude I have already explained myself and my reasons behind them in multiple threads and I can link you more videos that mirror my opinions. Must be hard constantly defending this game.

I'm not sure what you're upset about, I told you NO ONE SAID YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO. That you've elaborated in the past doesn't automatically make your new posts interesting.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Doesn't that apply to every negative review of anything?
no matter what you keep telling people
Joel would actually run over a guy rather than find out if he really needs help
"Trust no one"
This mentality is repeated so many times
In the original you can't just brush it off as "oh they was looking for people"
"People change"

Spoiler

So it's in character of a cautious minded person to go with a stranger to their group that just happened to be hiding out on your front door, feed them all the information about the town, their supply's and who they are?
And she was heading towards the town, yet their cabin was the closest place?
Really?

Everything is just plot progression convenience to be overlooked, which obviously most people did.
Like I said before, it's still TLOU and I'm enjoying the gameplay parts but some stuff stick out like a sore thumb when it comes to it's story.
It stinks of a rewrite.

Spoiler

Joel has development of his character that happens later in the game but beforehand timeline-wise that makes it fine. They didn't have much choice in the blizzard and with a horde on top of them. Also, Joel didn't feed her any information... Tommy did. Joel says his name but it's after Tommy had already told Abby Joel's name. She also wasn't heading towards town, she was headed for Joel and Tommy, the plan was to grab some of their recon/scouts and pump them for info, they never planned to actually enter a town that big to find Joel, they wanted to find a way to lure him out.

 

[Chromata]

So what? Am I not allowed to make criticisms of it's execution? It's very easy to see what Neil was trying to do, and in my opinion he did it poorly.

And I fully respect that, I'm just differentiating between absolutes and opinions.

I didn't like The Godfather, that's my opinion. However, I wouldn't say it's a garbage story or the creators are incompetent because there's clearly a lot of merit there.

Regardless, none of this really matters. You didn't enjoy the game or its structure which is cool. I just mentioned why it was structured that way instead of what you proposed, for better or worse.

 

[Halo is Back]

I'm not sure what you're upset about, I told you NO ONE SAID YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO. That you've elaborated in the past doesn't automatically make your new posts interesting.

The levels of salt is unreal mate. You haven't even critiqued my opinion in this thread and just called it "a fart in the wind". Nice argument bro. I won't argue with you anymore because you defend this game at all cost. No matter what I say you will disagree so here you go.

 

[Spukc]

Hey guys, look, it's a Suicide Squad fan telling us what good writing is.

Thanks for saving my time

 

[SantaC]

I guess that Era is exploading right?

 

[Halo is Back]

And I fully respect that, I'm just differentiating between absolutes and opinions.

I didn't like The Godfather, that's my opinion. However, I wouldn't say it's a garbage story or the creators are incompetent because there's clearly a lot of merit there.

Regardless, none of this really matters. You didn't enjoy the game or its structure which is cool. I just mentioned why it was structured that way instead of what you proposed, for better or worse.

I didn't like the Godfather either

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

I'm not sure what you're upset about, I told you NO ONE SAID YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO. That you've elaborated in the past doesn't automatically make your new posts interesting.

Pot calling the kettle black

 

[Strategize]

Doesn't that apply to every negative review of anything?
no matter what you keep telling people
Joel would actually run over a guy rather than find out if he really needs help
"Trust no one"
This mentality is repeated so many times
In the original you can't just brush it off as "oh they was looking for people"
"People change"

Spoiler

So it's in character of a cautious minded person to go with a stranger to their group that just happened to be hiding out on your front door, feed them all the information about the town, their supply's and who they are?
And she was heading towards the town, yet their cabin was the closest place?
Really?

No, she wasn't heading towards the town. She went towards the place to the far right of the town looking for the patrol Owen told her about. Thus their cabin is still alot closer than Jackson, thus is the best option to save to survive the horde.

This isn't hard to understand.

 

[Deleted member 740922]

Problem is the entire NeoGAF filled with TLOU2 thread.....way too many.

It was the same with Death Stranding. It should start to fizzle out soon hopefully.

 

[DragoonKain]

lmao that part with him mocking D&D is hilarious

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

And I fully respect that, I'm just differentiating between absolutes and opinions.

I didn't like The Godfather, that's my opinion. However, I wouldn't say it's a garbage story or the creators are incompetent because there's clearly a lot of merit there.

Regardless, none of this really matters. You didn't enjoy the game or its structure which is cool. I just mentioned why it was structured that way instead of what you proposed, for better or worse.

If i think a story is dogshit i'll call it dogshit.

Not that the story of godfather is dogshit. Its just a boring af

 

[Chromata]

I don't think the feelings neil wanted to convey was meant to lead people fo tearing up the discs lmao

It's all a ploy to get people to go digital. Neil will eradicate every disk on this planet, one dead beloved character at a time.

 

[HawarMiran]

I never let reviews pursuade me into buying or not because I value my own opinion and I am not a sheep . I just want to see what other people think and if their views align. I watch a lot of AJs reviews and they are often times too long ( pacing issues ). And i have to say this review was dogshit . Most of what he is saying makes no sense and sounded like he was browsing the internet and picked stuff from other peoples complaints (pacing issues or Joel being dumb and not acting like the real Joel etc.) and packaged them into a video of him crying like a little bitch.

 

[jadefire66]

Great review haha, but he was way too generous with the rating. It's a 4/10 at best.

 

[pLow7]

Dude saw the Leaks and disliked the game from the get go. Seeing him play the game he didn'T really pay attention and hated everything without even trying to understand it. It was clear from the get go he wouldn't like this game.

Dude is also extremely slow, people don't care hating on this game any more.

 

[Chromata]

If i think a story is dogshit i'll call it dogshit.

Not that the story of godfather is dogshit. Its just a boring af

Go for it, didn't say you couldn't. Just saying your viewpoint isn't an absolute determinant of quality so just because it's garbage to you, it doesn't mean it's just garage. Same goes for me.

 

[rofif]

Lol This was funny. His points were spot on and 6/10 is what i gave it. I predict if they make a 3rd ellie will probably sacrifice herself for the cure.

6? wtf.... I genuinely love the game and while I admit it's not 10 and has pacing problems, I had no other issues with it and grew to love it from hating it initially. I even replayed first game this week... and it don't hold up as well as people think (still good though)

 

[xrnzaaas]

Predictable Joel dick sucking

It's ok (and often ideal) for sequels to have different protagonists

Sequels can have different protagonists, but it's not so easy to convince people to like someone new, especially if they just killed off a beloved character from the previous game. Many people, myself included, think that ND failed to do that.

 

[DeeDogg_]

He gave the first game a 10/10.

WTF I love Angry Joe now!

 

[Lanrutcon]

How easy would it have been not to fuck this game up, I ask you.

Expectations subverted, I guess.

 

[sobaka770]

Who would've thought a year ago that Girlfriend Reviews of all channels would actually have a better commentary and understanding of games than AngryJoe? Maybe, paying and streaming a lot of games is not a qualification for being a good critic.

Anyway, I called it a week ago - 6-7 rating and bad justifications for him going "but Joel".

Joe didn't want to engage with the game, he barely played it and walked out of the room half the time, picked up stupid complaints that make no sense to justify him being "unsatisfied" that he didn't get Joel back. Like literally, every further argument is there only to justify this single disconnect, the review could've been 5 minutes long. Angry Rant: "But Joel!" and we're done. I guess this review will feel good for people who can't let go of character, no matter how important it is for the overall story.

I don't even hate Angry Joe. His reviews are entertaining and I watch them for entertainment but I have no illusion that his commentary and analysis are weak for most things apart from gameplay maybe. Madden, Predator Hunting Grounds and some simple feel-good story games is his limit. I've seen some of his movie reviews and you expect these guys to like TLOU2? Lol.

 

[plasmawave]

Joe thought Abby didn't kill Ellie because she wasn't a man... lol
This is the level of maturity and media literacy we're dealing with here.

 

[scalman]

i liked their reviews , some of them at least for being funny, but this just being stupid , all review is : they killed my fav character so i iahte this game but i will still play it ... why they even bother really and most argument about game being bad are just stupid if they compare game stuff to real life stuff, thats now how video games works kinda...
thought they kinda more grown up and smarter and will try to enjoy game at least but no.... why even bother play damn thats some waste of time , just doing for views.

 

[SleepDoctor]

Big difference from big reviewers who get free copies for an embargo review and a courtesy call from Sony, to some YouTube reviewer.

I'd bet more reviewers would more in line with this if part of the game wasn't embargoed for them. First game was a one off masterpiece that they'll never outdo.

 

[Kagoshima_Luke]

The salt is overflowing in this thread.

A guy didn't like the game you love. It happens. You can still enjoy your game. You do you.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Dude saw the Leaks and disliked the game from the get go. Seeing him play the game he didn'T really pay attention and hated everything without even trying to understand it. It was clear from the get go he wouldn't like this game.

Dude is also extremely slow, people don't care hating on this game any more.

Clearly not true going by the salt in this thread lol

 

[BaneIsPain]

I agreed most of Joe's criticism which mainly about writing and plot armour. It should be better.
I still think this game deserves way higher than 6.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

The levels of salt is unreal mate. You haven't even critiqued my opinion in this thread and just called it "a fart in the wind". Nice argument bro. I won't argue with you anymore because you defend this game at all cost. No matter what I say you will disagree so here you go.

I mean, I'm asking you for more but you link me to someone else instead. I'm not the biggest fan of the video,

Spoiler

his point mostly seams to be "I got the point of this game long before it arrived at it" which is odd since he claims the same thing about part 1 but in that case it's a positive thing somehow? He seems to think the entirety of Abby's section is just to flesh out the themes but it's not, it's developing Abby as a character equal to Ellie in her role in the story, which... he seems to get that's part of the point? Like, he keeps saying he gets that the game is about how everyone is a person with a backstory but also wants the game to mostly just be Ellie? So he gets it but doesn't really embrace it. Now he's wishing the two narratives were intertwined... ugh... I just don't know, man. Is that really the main problem with the game for people? This whole review is about how the game is too wrapped up in the themes except it feels like HE'S too wrapped up in them, like he shouldn't need to play all this because he gets it, as if that's the only reason to play through the material is to drive home the theme. Like I "got" the theme of Dawn of the Dead a half hour in, guess it should have ended there? "I need to get to the theater because it's a cliffhanger" basically, the review. Oh now he's claiming it's audacious to parallel Abby and Lev to Joel and Ellie because of the hours we had as Joel and Ellie... so he wants it longer, not shorter now? I mean, he spends 10 minutes of the video on the idea that he "gets it" and the game needs to move on only to say that a game doesn't get to make a certain point because it isn't developed for hours, can he really have it both ways? The commentary on Dina revealing her pregnancy is baffling, as well.

Man, he's nearly approaching self-awareness talking about Ellie becoming more frustrated with the obstacles in the way of her goal, LIKE YOU BEING ANNOYED BY THE GAME TELLING YOU A STORY IN MORE DETAIL WHEN YOUR GOAL IS TO SEE THE SHOWDOWN. He keeps getting at this idea that you need to play something to empathize and that he doesn't, but the thing is most GAMERS do. Just listen to someone rant about the DISRESPECT to Joel and you'll realize the power of a normal gamer to empathize with a character they play as, but this guy was already not there because Joel being killed is just an interesting decision to him for a story. It didn't cause him to get mad or analyze the logic or character consistency of Joel's actions, he just saw it as an interesting jumping off point. This is reminding me of the people who complained Inception spent too much time explaining itself when they ALREADY GOT IT while other people didn't understand even with all the expository dialogue. It's a form of intellectual gatekeeping to demand these things be done in a way that is less mass appeal, to be honest. It's weird intellectual gatekeeping, though, because WANTING to see these characters clash/get revenge/etc. kindof indicates he DOESN'T get the point of the game, or at least not enough to agree with it. Oh God, more of this flashback in a flashback idea, it's not a flashback, you're playing the entire thing from another perspective. "One of my favorite moments is one of these flashbacks" - okay... so you've contradicted your ideas...

All of that said, way more interesting and well written review than Angry Joe's.

 

[pLow7]

Clearly not true going by the salt in this thread lol

This Forum isn't really a mirror of the rest of the internet. Check AJ Twitter Replies or the newes Replies to Druckman and compare it to few weeks ago.

 

[Stuart360]

lol all the 'He's too stupid to understand this amazing story' talk has started. Well CohhCarnage is probably one of the most intelligent and level headed streamers out there, and although he didnt review the game as such, he did say he was so glad it was over, and wont even allow talk of it in hs chat lol.