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Sony Principal Graphics Engineer confirms PS5 has custom architecture that is based on RDNA2. (Update: Read OP)

kuncol02

kuncol02

Banned
thicc_girls_are_teh_best said:
I can't believe the part mentioning no ML. The other stuff? Yeah I can see some precedent for it and I think there's a timeline to support it (I also don't think it's really a bad thing at all because it'd still mean it has many RDNA2 and maybe even some RDNA3 features while being on a more efficient node process, same as Series X. They are both "essentially" custom RDNA2).

But no ML? Why gut that out? The Pro had ML support; maybe Sony figured from their internal studios it wasn't worth implementing, or they used the budget on the GPU on other things like the cache scrubbers and customizing the GE and PS? I just can't wrap my head around the possibility it has no ML but if that's true I think that'll be a big negative down the line and would be curious to see what things they could implement to make up for it (if those techniques exist).

Figured there would be at least similar FP16 ML support as the Pro, even if ML is not a focus for Sony. I'd love a full technical feature breakdown on both PS5 and the Series systems i that regard but that's never going to happen :pie_roffles:

Again, I knew there would be some differences between the systems and we can clearly see that, but I didn't think one would be as drastic as ML/no ML whatsoever.
Click to expand...
Don't forget about decompression block they had to fit into silicon because of superfast SSD.
 
Thugnificient

Thugnificient

Banned
nosseman said:
Sure there is.

Different architecture results in different performance.

GPU A with 10 tflop can have better performance in games compared to GPU B with 10 tflop.

So - 1 tflop of RDNA 2 is better (or worse but better is more likely) in real life performance than 1 tflop of RDNA 1.
Click to expand...
Yes, and there is a lot more to architecture than FLOPs. FLOPs simply measure shaders*GPU clocks*2. Mem bandwidth, which is one of the most important factors at high resolutions isn't even accounted for.

A FLOP is a FLOP. The feature-set and other key differences determine the disparity. Not the FLOPs.
 
Agnostic2020

Agnostic2020

Member
eastwood333 said:
Its a Sony PS5 principal engineer employee. Has nothing to do with Xbox era. Cerny has never mentioned Machine Learning. Why? Sony has not mentioned whether the SSD speeds are peak or sustained. Why? Sony has only confirmed PS5 uses RDNA 2 in some fashion. Sony has never claimed PS5 is the most powerful next gen console. Why?

Phil has stated multiple times XSX is the most powerful next gen console. MS has confirmed the SSD speeds of XSX are sustained performance. MS has confirmed XSX is RDNA 2 and gone into detail what those RDNA 2 features are. MS has confirmed machine learning in XSX.
Click to expand...
Lol its fake as per usual with you xbox fan boys .

wh0CWH1.jpg
 
thicc_girls_are_teh_best

thicc_girls_are_teh_best

Member
ANIMAL1975 said:
Mind-blowing, it's a custom chip they could choose whatever they want from what AMD had to offer. For instance geometry engine is in RDNA1 _ hardware support to geometry in the gpu _ Sony took it and customized it, see road to ps5 again about geometry engine and primitive shaders, it's all there...
Click to expand...

I mean, you're right but..that's just reaffirming what this guy is saying. I think the bigger issue is when you look at the circumstantial evidence particularly Ariel and Oberon, their timeline, the earlier launch rumors, the rumors of heating issues with the devkits (not the retail system) etc.

There's a strong chance now people who were saying the system is base RDNA1 weren't wrong after all. HOWEVER, we can also clearly see they've done a lot of customizations, they've added things like the cache scrubbers, etc.

Some people are asking if the deal is similar with Series X; I'm inclined to say no, because we know that AMD could not get Primitive Shaders verified for support in DX12/DX12U because MS did not deem them sufficient enough. So it leads to possibility that implementation of Mesh Shaders on Series systems and PC RDNA2 GPUs was at the behest of Microsoft, seeing that Nvidia's solution was more fitting than AMD's. Also explains why PS5 has (customized) Primitive Shaders and not Mesh Shaders. There's nothing against the idea they could not have customized the PSers and/or parts of GE to "bring in" some of the functionality of Mesh Shaders though.

Honestly the bigger issues here are apparently no ML, no VRS etc. Those are going to create some notable differences going forward in the generation if true.

kuncol02 said:
Don't forget about decompression block they had to fit into silicon because of superfast SSD.
Click to expand...

Yes there's also that. Think it's clear now that Sony, for various reasons, shifted a focus to SSD I/O in a way they felt befitting their design. The question is if this was in reaction to feeling they went with a GPU architecture design more in line with RDNA1 as its base, or if this is something they had planned from the absolute beginning?

Not having ML present, if true, is so crazy enough to me I'm willing to say it might be the latter. But it does mean the Series systems have more advantages in the GPU department than simple percentages can indicate.
 
Last edited:
ANIMAL1975

ANIMAL1975

Member
SplunkyMunkey said:
Im having a hard time on who to believe this guy saying inbetween RDNA1 AND RDNA 2 then cerny at hes road show based on RDNA 2 and even lisa su from amd also said both consoles are RDNA 2 and theres rumoured rdna features not found on series x so who do u believe?
Click to expand...
It's not what he is saying, his words are already being taken out of context.
He's saying that the PS5 gpu has features from the RDNA1 arc that Sony asked for, decided to adopt. That's how a custom APU is designed, and most certainly MS did the same thing.
Whoever paid attention to the reveal of the PS5 and knows something about Navi, when heard Cerny talking about the Geometry Engine and primitive shaders (dedicated hardware support for geometry), immediately was aware of the presence of a RDNA1 feature on the PS5 gpu and one that Ms apparently didn't adopt.
 
M

Mmnow

Member
VincentMatts said:
Games at lunch practically never take full of advantage of the hardware. Especially third party games. You won’t see a big difference until a few years down the road. If then.
Click to expand...

Obviously things get better, that goes without saying. But if there are generation defining upgrades, they don't just pop up in year 3. There are hints. Killzone and Horizon are a world apart, but not in a way that should surprise anyone who was paying attention.

My point is, if the SSD was going to push the PS5 a million miles beyond the Series X, we'd have seen it. And the same will be true for Thursday. No waiting past launch will change that.
 
E

eastwood333

Banned
Agnostic2020 said:
So sony paid who ? Epic or amd or everyone .fucking lol think before talking 😂😂😂
Click to expand...

Sony invested 250 million into Epic. Um...nobody is arguing whether PS5 uses RDNA 2 in some fashion. Its to what degree. According to the sony graphics engineer, PS5 is a hybrid of RDNA 1 and RDNA 2. Of course AMD is going to market PS5, its using RDNA1 and RDNA2. Your post proved nothing.
 
Last edited:
FunkMiller

FunkMiller

Member
So, I can’t see any proof that Leonardi actually wrote the contents of that message. The dude on Twitter asks him if it’s true, and the only thing he says is true is that he did indeed play Tsushima until 5am.

So, unless anyone can say different, if they’ve searched better, there is a chance the comment in the message is fake?

🤷‍♂️

Edit: can’t find the tweet about ML either...

Not willing to believe any of this, unless I see the actual, original tweets on Twitter. Sorry, but this does seem like console war bullshit at the moment, with faked tweets and messages.
 
Last edited:
KonstructReborn

KonstructReborn

Member
I don't believe it especially when Cerny said otherwise. Quite honestly that guy sounds like he has a very serious videogame addiction. Up all night playing GOT psshh.
 
E

eastwood333

Banned
Agnostic2020 said:
Amd ceo called it rdna 2 . End of story rest are xbox fanboy fud . Keep it in your discord 😂😂.or better yet go play some video games and enjoy ur life
Click to expand...

Its RDNA 2 if its using SOME RDNA 2 features. Again, the question is to what degree. MS has gone in full detail the RDNA 2 features XSX is using.
 
kuncol02

kuncol02

Banned
thicc_girls_are_teh_best said:
I mean, you're right but..that's just reaffirming what this guy is saying. I think the bigger issue is when you look at the circumstantial evidence particularly Ariel and Oberon, their timeline, the earlier launch rumors, the rumors of heating issues with the devkits (not the retail system) etc.

There's a strong chance now people who were saying the system is base RDNA1 weren't wrong after all. HOWEVER, we can also clearly see they've done a lot of customizations, they've added things like the cache scrubbers, etc.

Some people are asking if the deal is similar with Series X; I'm inclined to say no, because we know that AMD could not get Primitive Shaders verified for support in DX12/DX12U because MS did not deem them sufficient enough. So it leads to possibility that implementation of Mesh Shaders on Series systems and PC RDNA2 GPUs was at the behest of Microsoft, seeing that Nvidia's solution was more fitting than AMD's. Also explains why PS5 has (customized) Primitive Shaders and not Mesh Shaders. There's nothing against the idea they could not have customized the PSers and/or parts of GE to "bring in" some of the functionality of Mesh Shaders though.

Honestly the bigger issues here are apparently no ML, no VRS etc. Those are going to create some notable differences going forward in the generation if true.



Yes there's also that. Think it's clear now that Sony, for various reasons, shifted a focus to SSD I/O in a way they felt befitting their design. The question is if this was in reaction to feeling they went with a GPU architecture design more in line with RDNA1 as its base, or if this is something they had planned from the absolute beginning?

Not having ML present, if true, is so crazy enough to me I'm willing to say it might be the latter. But it does mean the Series systems have more advantages in the GPU department than simple percentages can indicate.
Click to expand...
No ML means no DLSS like functionality. DLSS in some games is difference between 30fps and 60fps with actually better graphics (like in Control).


thicc_girls_are_teh_best said:
Yes there's also that. Think it's clear now that Sony, for various reasons, shifted a focus to SSD I/O in a way they felt befitting their design. The question is if this was in reaction to feeling they went with a GPU architecture design more in line with RDNA1 as its base, or if this is something they had planned from the absolute beginning?

Not having ML present, if true, is so crazy enough to me I'm willing to say it might be the latter. But it does mean the Series systems have more advantages in the GPU department than simple percentages can indicate.
Click to expand...
If that info is true, then I'm almost certain that they started designing from SSD and then used rest of transistor budget to make as fast console as possible without compromising SSD speed. Similar to MS bet on RAM with XOne (more of slower ram and ESRAM to compensate).
 
Bryank75

Bryank75

Banned
DForce said:
According to RedGamingTech, Xbox Series X is not a full RDNA 2 either.

His sources state that PlayStation 5 also has VRS and it will be using some features of RDNA 3.




Click to expand...

Yeah, I'd trust him more than anything else posted here.... if this whole thing turns out to be another Xbox fan created troll, it will be a very bad look for them. After the whole GOW on steam thing..... they really are looking pathetic lately! (Not all Xbox fans obviously)
 
VincentMatts

VincentMatts

Member
Mmnow said:
Obviously things get better, that goes without saying. But if there are generation defining upgrades, they don't just pop up in year 3. There are hints. Killzone and Horizon are a world apart, but not in a way that should surprise anyone who was paying attention.

My point is, if the SSD was going to push the PS5 a million miles beyond the Series X, we'd have seen it. And the same will be true for Thursday. No waiting past launch will change that.
Click to expand...

Oh, the SSD won’t push the PS5 one million miles beyond the series X. Not even in year three. It’s not gonna happen. The SSD is a hard drive. There’s only so much you can do with that. And both are quite similar.

But graphics and CPU optimization does tend to improve with time. And when one Console has more power than the other, then games look and play better for longer.
 
Jtibh

Jtibh

Banned
It took more than 2 or 3 months after the cerny show for this guy to tweet this?
Wonder who paid and how much.
 
Optimistic Gamer

Optimistic Gamer

Member
Investor9872 said:
Mark Cerny actually said that the PS5 GPU is "a custom AMD GPU based on their RDNA 2 technology." Cerny never said that it was RDNA 2, but rather based on that architecture. Cerny customized the PS5 GPU to his vision to make the PS5 run more efficiently, better, and faster by getting rid of all the various bottlenecks and a blazing fast SSD. I trust Cerny's vision, and for him to deliver an awesome product. The PS5 is highly customized, and doesn't use the traditional PC parts, and it's better for it.
Click to expand...
I love how you can tell the PS5 fans from other people by them always adding a superlative in front of "SSD". Even though it's known that the SSD is great just saying "PS5 SSD" is not enough. There needs to be a "blazing fast", "lightning fast" or "super fast".

Every one of these threads has me looking forward to actual analysis once the systems are out. Currently, my money for better performance is actually on Microsoft, but I also know not to underestimate the Cerny.
 
E

eastwood333

Banned
Agnostic2020 said:
And he says I m under nda. But here are few secret info for no reason over pm so I lose my job and get sued by my company . Makes sense 😂🤔
Click to expand...

You're lying. He said the info he's giving is already out to the public, therefore its not under NDA. There is nothing secretive.

Somebody asked him a question and he answered it without fear of getting into trouble. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
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