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Faster loading (ps5) vs more power (xsx) ?

Faster loading (ps5) vs more power (xsx)

  • Faster loading ps5

    Votes: 245 45.1%
  • More power xsx

    Votes: 298 54.9%

  • Total voters
    543

FrankWza

Member
That's a sata drive you have in that ps3 bub.

XSX is NVME with its own custom interface.

My goodness. In reality, the difference in the ssd implementations is going to be very small. I would laugh if the XSX ends up having the superior load times.
Putting an SSD in a PS3 is absolutely nothing like having a system designed with an SSD as the default.

If the Xbox is built with it as default and the ps5 has a custom SSD that it’s being built AROUND how is the ps5 just about load times then?
If you’re gonna dumb it down to just load times....
I mean, that’s all I’ve been seeing in this thread with the ps5 being capable of doing so....
 
If the Xbox is built with it as default and the ps5 has a custom SSD that it’s being built AROUND how is the ps5 just about load times then?
If you’re gonna dumb it down to just load times....
I mean, that’s all I’ve been seeing in this thread with the ps5 being capable of doing so....
That's the koolaid i'm talking about.

Xbox has a fancy name for its ssd implementation too, the velocity architecture. This idea that only Sony has dat SSD supapowah is just fud. The CPU matters for load times and data streaming as well, and Xbox will have higher clocks. I don't see many people talking about that :messenger_dizzy:

Teh Cell
Teh SSD
amirite
 

MrFunSocks

Banned
If the Xbox is built with it as default and the ps5 has a custom SSD that it’s being built AROUND how is the ps5 just about load times then?
If you’re gonna dumb it down to just load times....
I mean, that’s all I’ve been seeing in this thread with the ps5 being capable of doing so....
They're both built around having an SSD, the PS5's is just faster. SSDs and HDDs load stuff, that's why its mainly talked about in terms of load times. If you think the PS5 is going to be constantly streaming 9GB of data every second you don't understand games.
 

sendit

Member
That's the koolaid i'm talking about.

Xbox has a fancy name for its ssd implementation too, the velocity architecture. This idea that only Sony has dat SSD supapowah is just fud. The CPU matters for load times and data streaming as well, and Xbox will have higher clocks. I don't see many people talking about that :messenger_dizzy:

Teh Cell
Teh SSD
amirite

You aren’t right. Please educate yourself and watch the Road to PS5 video. Come back to this thread, and formulate an educated response as to why the CPU equation becomes less of a factor in terms to I/O. This holds true with XSX as well, but to a lesser extent.
 

FrankWza

Member
They're both built around having an SSD, the PS5's is just faster. SSDs and HDDs load stuff, that's why its mainly talked about in terms of load times. If you think the PS5 is going to be constantly streaming 9GB of data every second you don't understand games.
No. The Xbox is built with an SSD. You can probably pick it up anywhere. The ps5 uses the that they had custom made when it was being designed and engineered. That’s the difference you’re unaware of and why load times keep coming into the conversation for some reason.
That's the koolaid i'm talking about.

Xbox has a fancy name for its ssd implementation too, the velocity architecture. This idea that only Sony has dat SSD supapowah is just fud. The CPU matters for load times and data streaming as well, and Xbox will have higher clocks. I don't see many people talking about that :messenger_dizzy:

Teh Cell
Teh SSD
amirite

Cool. When you get your Xbox, buy the SSD that’s in the PS5 and put it in your Xbox and see what happens. Share the link for the site you use to buy it when you do.
 
You aren’t right. Please educate yourself and watch the Road to PS5 video. Come back to this thread, and formulate an educated response as to why the CPU equation becomes less of a factor in terms to I/O. This holds true with XSX as well, but to a lesser extent.
It still is a factor, esp. on backwards compatibility where the games aren't coded for these architectures. You know, that one generation the ps5 is maybe compatible with, 99% eventually, probably.

Continue shilling.
 

MrFunSocks

Banned
No. The Xbox is built with an SSD. You can probably pick it up anywhere. The ps5 uses the that they had custom made when it was being designed and engineered. That’s the difference you’re unaware of and why load times keep coming into the conversation for some reason.
lol no. The SSD in the PS5 can be replaced with a standard PCIE4 SSD. Like with the xbox, the "secret sauce" is around the SSD.
 
Sure, it's possible. I just don't believe that it's likely ps5 has any, what will be, RDNA3 features, I could be wrong. Oct 28th we should have the complete RDNA2 features though.....hopefully. I'm excited for the new tech regardless. We won't know much about RDNA3 probably till sometime next year.

Sony sure isn't marketing.any of those possible, that I believe unlikely, RDNA3 features. That we do know.

I think what Cerny said is that they created some features for the PS5. And if those features perform well they might be used in future AMD GPUs like their RDNA3 lineup. Honestly the cache scrubbers and the I/O complex stand out as Sonys unique features to me. Also they said the geometry engine is extremely customized for them so there might be something there as well.
 

sendit

Member
It still is a factor, esp. on backwards compatibility where the games aren't coded for these architectures. You know, that one generation the ps5 is maybe compatible with, 99% eventually, probably.

Continue shilling.

Right.....100-200 MHz diff is going to make all the difference in the world for backwards compatibility. You’re a bright one.
 
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FrankWza

Member
lol no. The SSD in the PS5 can be replaced with a standard PCIE4 SSD. Like with the xbox, the "secret sauce" is around the SSD.

That’s for supplemental storage. We still don’t know if the ps5 will have an nvme slot inside or need to use one of its ports for extra storage. The SSD in the ps5 will not be available anywhere else. Getting an equivalent or better with similar store capacity will cost almost as much as the console itself in the first 6 months to year.

This statement below is from March
“ the reason why the PS5 SSD is 825GB, is because it is specially made for the console and is a perfect match for the 12 channel flash interface that allows the PS5 SSD to process data as quickly as it does.”
 
Right.....100-200 MHz diff is going to make all the difference in the world for backwards compatibility. You’re a bright one.
I'm glad you appreciate I can do math.

PS5 - 3.5ghz with variable clocks (meaning it can go lower)
XSX - 3.8ghz non variable

So that's 300mhz, at least.

But expecting an less than 1gb (theoretical) advantage in ssd bandwidth will make the difference? 4.8 vs 5.5 according to Sony and MS.

But that's what i'm saying : all this load speed talk is window dressing over the fact that the ps5 is just the flat out weaker machine.
 
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FrankWza

Member
I'm glad you appreciate I can do math.

PS5 - 3.5ghz with variable clocks (meaning it can go lower)
XSX - 3.8ghz non variable

So that's 300mhz, at least.

But expecting an less than 1gb (theoretical) advantage in ssd bandwidth will make the difference? 4.8 vs 5.5 according to Sony and MS.

But that's what i'm saying : all this load speed talk is window dressing over the fact that the ps5 is just the flat out weaker machine.

It’s 2.4 vs 5.5 RAW. compressed is 4.8 for X and much higher than 5.5 for PS5. Come on now....you’re bean shootin
 
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MrFunSocks

Banned
That’s for supplemental storage. We still don’t know if the ps5 will have an nvme slot inside or need to use one of its ports for extra storage. The SSD in the ps5 will not be available anywhere else. Getting an equivalent or better with similar store capacity will cost almost as much as the console itself in the first 6 months to year.

This statement below is from March
“ the reason why the PS5 SSD is 825GB, is because it is specially made for the console and is a perfect match for the 12 channel flash interface that allows the PS5 SSD to process data as quickly as it does.”
That's all rubbish. They said you can use any NVME 4 SSD that meets the specifications, one of which is 7GB/S read speed minimum.

What do you mean by "supplemental storage"? You don't think there will be any way to expand the storage of the PS5 other than transferring games back and forth to an external?
 

MarkMe2525

Member
I am genuinely surprised. When I first saw "more power (XsX)" was leading the poll, I assumed the Sony faithful would hit this poll like a DDoS attack. Maybe I got it all wrong. Shows my bias.
 

sendit

Member
I'm glad you appreciate I can do math.

PS5 - 3.5ghz with variable clocks (meaning it can go lower)
XSX - 3.8ghz non variable

So that's 300mhz, at least.

But expecting an less than 1gb (theoretical) advantage in ssd bandwidth will make the difference? 4.8 vs 5.5 according to Sony and MS.

But that's what i'm saying : all this load speed talk is window dressing over the fact that the ps5 is just the flat out weaker machine.

Wow...you really are out of touch. A significant portion of what is normally done on the CPU is offloaded to PS5s bespoke I/O chip. This hardware takes a significant portion of their SoC. It isn’t just hardware decompressors like the XSX.

iqClObA.jpg


We can safely assume that the CPU in the PS5 has more free cycles to process other task in comparison.
 

theddub

Banned
That's all rubbish. They said you can use any NVME 4 SSD that meets the specifications, one of which is 7GB/S read speed minimum.

What do you mean by "supplemental storage"? You don't think there will be any way to expand the storage of the PS5 other than transferring games back and forth to an external?
Hopefully there's a system test on the ps5, if your replace the SSD, that can test andntell if the drive meets ALL the requirements, with no variance otherwise games might perform erratically or performance might vary more on different SSDs.
 

FrankWza

Member
That's all rubbish. They said you can use any NVME 4 SSD that meets the specifications, one of which is 7GB/S read speed minimum.

What do you mean by "supplemental storage"? You don't think there will be any way to expand the storage of the PS5 other than transferring games back and forth to an external?

The way the SSD attaches to the system isn’t the point I’m making. It’s the drive itself that is state of the art and will be unique and unable to be replaced initially and then will cost a lot to either find an equivalent or better for. Even then, we don’t know if it will be able to achieve the bandwidth that Sony’s drive is capable of(2 times the Xbox drive)

Supplemental or extra storage?I do think there will be a way. Possibly with a second bay or slot to add a standard nvme SSD. But Sony has not showed us this yet.

Either way, nobody knows what they will be able to achieve with this drive. This drive is only available in the ps5 right now. There is no precedent for this approach ever in this industry. It’s not a proprietary drive like vita storage or a memory card for ps2. It’s future tech that is unavailable anywhere else. That’s it’s purpose. To be better and more powerful than any other SSD available for some time and the ps5s entirely built around it.

Edited to say it’s actually MORE than 2 times the Xbox drive. 2.4Xbox to 5.5PS5 raw.
 
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I'm glad you appreciate I can do math.

PS5 - 3.5ghz with variable clocks (meaning it can go lower)
XSX - 3.8ghz non variable


So that's 300mhz, at least.

But expecting an less than 1gb (theoretical) advantage in ssd bandwidth will make the difference? 4.8 vs 5.5 according to Sony and MS.

But that's what i'm saying : all this load speed talk is window dressing over the fact that the ps5 is just the flat out weaker machine.

Are you sure you know what you're talking about?

XSX is 3.8GHz with hyper threading (SMT) disabled.
 

MrFunSocks

Banned
The way the SSD attaches to the system isn’t the point I’m making. It’s the drive itself that is state of the art and will be unique and unable to be replaced initially and then will cost a lot to either find an equivalent or better for. Even then, we don’t know if it will be able to achieve the bandwidth that Sony’s drive is capable of(2 times the Xbox drive)

Supplemental or extra storage?I do think there will be a way. Possibly with a second bay or slot to add a standard nvme SSD. But Sony has not showed us this yet.

Either way, nobody knows what they will be able to achieve with this drive. This drive is only available in the ps5 right now. There is no precedent for this approach ever in this industry. It’s not a proprietary drive like vita storage or a memory card for ps2. It’s future tech that is unavailable anywhere else. That’s it’s purpose. To be better and more powerful than any other SSD available for some time and the ps5s entirely built around it.

Edited to say it’s actually MORE than 2 times the Xbox drive. 2.4Xbox to 5.5PS5 raw.
If you ignore everything that Sony have said about the ssd and how you can replace it with an off the shelf one then I guess......
 
I'm curious to see what you lot prefer going in to this coming generation of console gaming as the playstation 5 has faster ssd & I/O speed and the xbox series x has a better cpu and gpu.

I believe the playstation will load up to twice as fast so if 30 seconds on xbox series x then 15 seconds on playstation 5.

I believe the ps5 will be more likely to have a bit lower graphics quality or fps how much is unknown both will be detectable/noticeable if there.

I'd prefer to wait the extra seconds so any non pc console exclusive games I'll pick up on xbox series x and stick to playstation only games on playstation 5 Black edition when it will eventually come out.

This is such a peculiar concern for the SSD performance. The impression I got from Cerny's presentation is that because the SSD stream's data so fast, we are going to have more believable worlds that doesn't force level designers, world levels into arbitrary "restrictions". Loading a game 2x faster than the XseriesX only gives validation to the fact that video games will be stuck with PS4/cross-gen style limitations and not the massive changes we expect from "next-gen".
 

FrankWza

Member
If you ignore everything that Sony have said about the ssd and how you can replace it with an off the shelf one then I guess......

Except nobody needs to get one off of the shelf. They took the trouble to include one that you can’t buy anywhere else. And there’s nothing to guess. Just like the series x has more power on paper because of the tflops. The ps5s SSD allows for over 100% more bandwidth than the series x drive. So we don’t know how that will translate to overall power for ps5. Again, nobody knows yet. But we know the Xbox is pretty conventional in its build. Nothing has been done like this with this powerful an SSD so we’ll have to see.
 

MrFunSocks

Banned
Except nobody needs to get one off of the shelf. They took the trouble to include one that you can’t buy anywhere else. And there’s nothing to guess. Just like the series x has more power on paper because of the tflops. The ps5s SSD allows for over 100% more bandwidth than the series x drive. So we don’t know how that will translate to overall power for ps5. Again, nobody knows yet. But we know the Xbox is pretty conventional in its build. Nothing has been done like this with this powerful an SSD so we’ll have to see.
There are already SSDs announced that are faster than the PS5 one lol. They’re the ones that Sony have said you can use to expand your storage.
 

skneogaf

Member
This is such a peculiar concern for the SSD performance. The impression I got from Cerny's presentation is that because the SSD stream's data so fast, we are going to have more believable worlds that doesn't force level designers, world levels into arbitrary "restrictions". Loading a game 2x faster than the XseriesX only gives validation to the fact that video games will be stuck with PS4/cross-gen style limitations and not the massive changes we expect from "next-gen".

Are you talking about 1st party games which make up a tiny percentage of games on a console?

I ask as it sounds like you're expecting developers to make a game specific to the ssd speed inside a ps5 then make a version for slow hard drives like xbox series and pc or even ps4 and xbox one.

3rd party games will surely have to take into account all setups so game design will have to take in the lowest possible hard drive speed or have the minimum requirement at ps5 ssd & I/O speed.
 

geordiemp

Member
Looks like Xbox series x will be more powerful than ps5

But im still going with PS5


Whats a kid you tube channel got to do with anything ?

The real world performance is what matters, that is the power, not paper specs of 1 part of a GPU.

It also depends on the efficency of the work, if you can do a Ray tracing job and use half the resources, then you get twice the result and twice the real world effect (power).
 

Esppiral

Member
Reading this type of threads is funny, is like if the Xbox SX is using floppy discs to store game data lol.
 

FrankWza

Member
There are already SSDs announced that are faster than the PS5 one lol. They’re the ones that Sony have said you can use to expand your storage.
. I’m not talking about expanded storage. That’s just to have extra storage and transfer games back and forth. The 825gb drive that is INSIDE the Ps5 at LAUNCH. It’s the more powerful SSD in either console by over 100% more bandwidth. That SSD was intentionally put in the ps5 and the ps5 was designed and engineered to have this drive and have games draw off of this drive in a way that is unprecedented.
So Sony, instead of including an SSD for storage(in my opinion SSD should have been included in at the very least the mid gen upgrades by both manufacturers last gen)said we’re not just interested in using the SSD for faster load and transfer speeds. They see the potential that SSD offers. ESPECIALLY if you design a system around utilizing it for gameplay and game design. So they got the best and fastest SSD. One that is not available anywhere else YET. So, they future proofed it a little too. I know faster SSDs have been announced, but when they come to market they will be cost prohibitive. Especially compared to the cost of the system itself at $400-$500. The drive could cost for 1tb at least $200-$300 initially.
 

ReBurn

Gold Member
I'm looking forward to seeing the differences when there are actual multiplat games to compare. I'm not really expecting enormous differences between them either way. A second or two here, a shadow or two there. Probably going to be nitpicky scraps to argue over at best.
 

Lysandros

Member
Based on spec. Only advantage PS5 has is the ssd.
Nearly everyone seems to accept an imaginary fantasy as an established fact. XSX's GPU isn't 18% 'more powerful', it has the potential to push 18% more Vector ALU operations per second. This doesn't mean 18% more 'performance', far from it. PS5's GPU has 20% higher rasterization, 20% higher pixel fill rate, 20% higher cache bandwidth, more L1 and L2 cache available per CU and 20% faster ACES. Additionally PS5's GPU has advanced hardware features such as fully programmable Geometry Engine and Cache Scrubbers and these aren't there to just sound pretty. PS5's SSD is only 115% faster if we really want to pretend that the IO complex with all its hardware blocks (Coherency Engine, Coprocessors, Decompression Engine, SRAM, DMA Engine, all designed to remove every single bottleneck of the data throughput) doesn't exist and XSX's magical software solution is its equal. Based on these facts, i personaly cannot say for sure which system will (slightly) outperform the other in real world gaming scenarios. I'll wait for the comparison videos for my judgement.
 
Both look super damn powerful. Not sure if one is better than the other until and unless we see real world games running on either hardware to find out where does one perform over another. So yeah this holiday 2020 everything shall be revealed. Does AC Valhalla, COD: Cold War, Dirt 5 perform better on Series X or PS5? Holiday 2020, the presidential debate will most likely get eclipsed by the which console runs which games better debate!
 
Are you talking about 1st party games which make up a tiny percentage of games on a console?

I ask as it sounds like you're expecting developers to make a game specific to the ssd speed inside a ps5 then make a version for slow hard drives like xbox series and pc or even ps4 and xbox one.

3rd party games will surely have to take into account all setups so game design will have to take in the lowest possible hard drive speed or have the minimum requirement at ps5 ssd & I/O speed.

This is a contradiction. You can't build 1 game based on 1 ssd speed and expect to have the same game. Obviously, I'm expecting developers to compete based on the marketshare, we've already confirmed FFXVI - a massive game franchise that is confirmed to be a console exclusive for Sony. They've also got project Athia as well from the same company. Now that MS has just bought off Bethesda, I can expect developers to push towards 1 console exclusive with the expectation they will be integrated under the umbrella of that company.
 

fast_taker

Member
the faster loading ps5 thing is not important enough as the performance improvement is not noticeable.
Do we actually have loading time comparisons between the two? An improvement of 3 seconds is insignificant.
It would be interesting to see how well the half bandwidth XSX performs.
On the other hand, smooth framerates without drops are noticeable and make my eyes hurt.
Yes, i am all in with "more power" :)
 

Hairsplash

Member
go with the faster loading...
the more power only matters when it is the dominant Console...

even then it does not matter...

xbox 1 (and xbox 1 s... not the xbox 1 series models). is weaker than ps4 (12 vs 16/18ps4)
games were designed for xbox one (well gtav console was imo). UNTIL IMO the ps4 had at least 50% more installed units (and even then only on exclusive sony titles (HZD) ... HZD imo used all the power of the ps4, and a bit more power of the ps4pro...)

games for the ps4 (multiplatform) (non sony exclusive) are still designed with the weakness of the OG xbox one in mind...

so, IN MY OPINION, games this generation will be targeted to the “weakest” console PS5 (lol, not weak, but serves my argument)... the xbox one series X power will be wasted/ not used (somewhat like the ps4/ps4pro situation)...

the fast loading of the PS5 is a function of the OS, not the Game designer, so will always be used because it is something intrinsic not something you need to create .
ok 80/20 situation... only 20 percent effort to use fast loading, compared to 80% effort to use more GPU power...
and it is moot point...(to use more GPU power if the most powerful console is not the most popular one by 50%...)

discount the XBOX series S, because (correct me if i am wrong) it only has 20 CU’s to ps5’s 36/40 CU so half the power, and it is microsoft not Sony...
 
Clearly the loading times are more important. Both new consoles are powerful enough to run 1080p at 60fps. Of course a lot of people will say "but what about 4K", but the matter of fact is, that 4k will only impact a minority of players. I have a 4K tv, but I heard recently that still only 2% of people have a 4K television. So only a few gamers will benefit from 4k, but everyone, regardless of their tv" benefits from faster loading times.

Actually, I also don't know how important 4k is for most players. I care about graphics and also bough a full HD television when the PS3 came out, but I still have the base PS4 and never during my playtime, I have thought, that this would be cool in 4k", instead I was bothered constantly about the loading times. I played recently Assassins Creed Odyssey and you need to have your phone near you while playing, because otherwise fast traveling is pure torture.
 

Kenpachii

Member
So you think Sony/Cerny went with this expensive super fast solution for absolutely no reason then, when they could just have gone the standard PC SSD route like MS and saved a lot of money? Seems very strange to me, why would they do that if there are no tangible benefits?

What would u have done if you were cerny and your specs will be outclassed by microsoft and they will compete or even lower the launch price vs your box so that's not going to work?

U invest into a niche that the competition doesn't care for and market the shit out of it.
 
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Azurro

Banned
What would u have done if you were cerny and your specs will be outclassed by microsoft and they will compete or even lower the launch price vs your box so that's not going to work?

U invest into a niche that the competition doesn't care for and market the shit out of it.

This is the take of someone that doesn't understand how long and tough these projects are. Game consoles aren't created in a year, these are multi year projects with a lot of investment and design goals.

What you described is nonsense that only exists in the heads of forum console warriors.
 
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MrFunSocks

Banned
Yes there would, because the PS5 has a fixed power envelope. It can't spend more power than X. So it downclocks very slightly when more power hungry instructions are run. And ONLY then. This power management can happen extremely quickly back and forth, it's not like spinning up or down a fan which is slow.

If it was literally only doing it for milliseconds then there would have been no problem just giving it a microscopic bit higher power envelope.

It's not that I disagree, it's that it doesn't answer my question. Here it is phrased a different way. Do you think there is a real world benefit for Sony to choose less CUs and give up almost 200GB of storage space for a 2x faster SSD? Or do you think they are idiots who wasted money for no benefit?
The real world benefit will be faster loading. IMO that's not worth 2TF less power and worse raytracing and all the other things.

I don't think they're idiots, I think they just bet on the wrong horse. You don't have to be an idiot if you do option A vs option B, you just took a different option. I think it will prove to be the wrong option, but it doesn't make them idiots.
 

RoadHazard

Gold Member
What would u have done if you were cerny and your specs will be outclassed by microsoft and they will compete or even lower the launch price vs your box so that's not going to work?

U invest into a niche that the competition doesn't care for and market the shit out of it.

It's hilarious if you believe this is what actually happened. Like Sony just threw it in there last minute, wasting a ton of money for no reason.
 
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FrankWza

Member
This is the take of someone that doesn't understand how long and tough these projects are. Game consoles aren't created in a year, these are multi year projects with a lot of investment and design goals.

What you described is nonsense that only exists in the heads of forum console warriors.
It's hilarious if you believe this is what actually happened. Like Sony just threw it in there last minute, wasting a ton of money for no reason.

wait until they find out the PS5 SSD isover 100% more powerful than the drive in series x. The problem too is in the poll choice. Most think that means load screen from level to level or how quick The game loads after they die. They have no idea it’s a custom drive that the system was engineered around and that isn’t available anywhere else.
 

GustavoLT

Member
PS5 - 4K 30fps PC High(some medium) settings 1080p RT
XSX - 4K 30fps PC High(some ultra) settings (1080p - 1440p) RT

PS5 - 4K dynamic (most 1440p) 60fps PC Medium (some high) settings (900p - 1080p) RT
XSX - 4K 60fps PC High (some medium) settings 1080p RT
 
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