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[Razvedka]

It's been touched on several times in this thread (I don't think I've posted here, but its been a long week so... lol) but:

1. The paper specs seem to favor the XSX at first glance. I completely agree with that, sans SSD and Audio stuff.
2. However, until we find out which box has the more refined APIs + what the 'real world' performance of the silicon is after factoring in all of the dedicated hardware each box uses to offload work from their CPU/GPU/Memory I genuinely think it's up in the air. I can see many instances where the PS5 does outperform the XSX.

I will give you one example of #2. I think, with fairly high confidence, that the PS5 will have substantially more usable memory as a result of the SSD. They won't need the buffer sizes that XSX will for the assets, which translates to more usable memory for the CPU or GPU. Given both systems use the same amount of RAM (16GB) I think this is a pretty safe bet. The only other outlier I can think off of the top of my head is OS memory reservation, but do we know final figures? Last I read both boxes were at 2GB-2.5GB? Is that still true? Or is one smaller than the other?

Against #2's premise is the fact that we've heard several devs already state that the XSX allows to do 'more effects' (stuff like that). So it could well be that the paper specs broadly convey the simple point that Team Green built a graphically powerful box than Team Blue.

 

[Soulblighter31]

It's been touched on several times in this thread (I don't think I've posted here, but its been a long week so... lol) but:

1. The paper specs seem to favor the XSX at first glance. I completely agree with that, sans SSD and Audio stuff.
2. However, until we find out which box has the more refined APIs + what the 'real world' performance of the silicon is after factoring in all of the dedicated hardware each box uses to offload work from their CPU/GPU/Memory I genuinely think it's up in the air. I can see many instances where the PS5 does outperform the XSX.

There will be no instance where ps5 is better than xbox. These are not machines separated by a margin of error performance. Its near 20% for GPU, almost 10% for cpu and 25% for ram. The only thing to see when these machines come out is how stupid the discourse around ps5's ssd was all this time and how little it will matter.

 

[Razvedka]

There will be no instance where ps5 is better than xbox. These are not machines separated by a margin of error performance. Its near 20% for GPU, almost 10% for cpu and 25% for ram. The only thing to see when these machines come out is how stupid the discourse around ps5's ssd was all this time and how little it will matter.

I'm not emotionally invested in this. We'll see after the games start hitting.

But I don't think the situation is so cut and dry, as I think a fair trading of blows is inevitable between the two.

 

[Soulblighter31]

I'm not emotionally invested in this. We'll see after the games start hitting.

But I don't think the situation is so cut and dry, as I think a fair trading of blows is inevitable between the two.

I dont even game on consoles at all, ive always hated them and the games they propose. Im a pc only gamer for my entire life. But considering the pretty substantial difference in power, most importantly in ALL areas that form these systems, i just cant see a single ocassion where ps5 will come ahead. The ssd's will help in the sense that they're ssd's and not mechanical drives. Thats the extent to which is see this going. I cant imagine a developer leveraging the extra ssd speed from the ps5 in a sustained manner for any length of time. I mean, when did devs became so good overnight that they can single out that theoretical max peformance of the ssd and then design some special game that will need that ssd speed for the entire duration of your gaming session ?

It just doesnt make any sense. The speeds in xbox are sufficient enough to do anything the ps5 will do. The way i see this ssd in ps5 is overengineered on one hand and overemphasised because the ps5 is literally weaker in every single component that forms that console. Every one. The only thing they had was ssd after microsofts reveal, so they went with it.

 

[GustavoLT]

It's been touched on several times in this thread (I don't think I've posted here, but its been a long week so... lol) but:

1. The paper specs seem to favor the XSX at first glance. I completely agree with that, sans SSD and Audio stuff.
2. However, until we find out which box has the more refined APIs + what the 'real world' performance of the silicon is after factoring in all of the dedicated hardware each box uses to offload work from their CPU/GPU/Memory I genuinely think it's up in the air. I can see many instances where the PS5 does outperform the XSX.

I will give you one example of #2. I think, with fairly high confidence, that the PS5 will have substantially more usable memory as a result of the SSD. They won't need the buffer sizes that XSX will for the assets, which translates to more usable memory for the CPU or GPU. Given both systems use the same amount of RAM (16GB) I think this is a pretty safe bet. The only other outlier I can think off of the top of my head is OS memory reservation, but do we know final figures? Last I read both boxes were at 2GB-2.5GB? Is that still true? Or is one smaller than the other?

Against #2's premise is the fact that we've heard several devs already state that the XSX allows to do 'more effects' (stuff like that). So it could well be that the paper specs broadly convey the simple point that Team Green built a graphically powerful box than Team Blue.

the difference in graphics will be similar to OneX vs Pro

 

[Journey]

 

[Derktron]

I still haven’t seen more information on PS5 to even make a final judgment on how fast games load. I’d say Xbox is fast for now but until I see that super SSD that everyone is freaking out for on the PS5 then I’ll make my final judgment.

 

[Journey]

the difference in graphics will be similar to OneX vs Pro

Do you really think the difference will be THAT significant? I mean Red Dead Redemption 2 is on a different league on Xbox One X.

 

[Razvedka]

Do you really think the difference will be THAT significant? I mean Red Dead Redemption 2 is on a different league on Xbox One X.

The gap between the PS4 Pro and Xbox One X is substantially bigger than PS5 => XSX on paper.

 

[Journey]

The gap between the PS4 Pro and Xbox One X is substantially bigger than PS5 => XSX on paper.

Right, that's not what I'm saying though

 

[Razvedka]

Right, that's not what I'm saying though

Right, my post was in agreement with yours. I think people believing that the XSX PS5 gap will be significant are in for a rude awakening.

 

[geordiemp]

PS5 - 4K 30fps PC High(some medium) settings 1080p RT
XSX - 4K 30fps PC High(some ultra) settings (1080p - 1440p) RT

PS5 - 4K dynamic (most 1440p) 60fps PC Medium (some high) settings (900p - 1080p) RT
XSX - 4K 60fps PC High (some medium) settings 1080p RT

LOL, when do you think MS will show a modern game ? never mind RT/.

Not even close, keep wishing it will be funny.

 

[Journey]

Right, my post was in agreement with yours. I think people believing that the XSX PS5 gap will be significant are in for a rude awakening.

There will be a difference nonetheless. PS3 and Xbox 360 were probably the closest we can get in the history of rivals, yet even as the PS3 was considered to be more powerful on paper, it was the Xbox 360 that ended up having the superior multiplatform games most of the time, and that's because there are more reasons than paper specs, you have development tools, complex architectures and other variables. Lastly it's the perception of gamers, to some the difference between PS4 Pro and Xbox One X is small, I on the other hand see a significant difference.

Sources who analyze games have their work cut out for them, it's going to be a blood bath based on all the arguments lol.

 

[FrankWza]

There will be no instance where ps5 is better than xbox. These are not machines separated by a margin of error performance. Its near 20% for GPU, almost 10% for cpu and 25% for ram. The only thing to see when these machines come out is how stupid the discourse around ps5's ssd was all this time and how little it will matter.

those numbers you referenced add up to the x being marginally more powerful overall. The number you didn’t mention is Sony’s custom SSD being more than 100% more powerful in terms of bandwidth than the x’s standard drive. The question is how much can Sonyutilize the drive in their machine to make up for the slight advantage that the x has spec-wise with the components you mentioned and can they utilize with all games. They’ve engineered the system to take advantage of this drive. We’ll see.

 

[GustavoLT]

LOL, when do you think MS will show a modern game ? never mind RT/.

Not even close, keep wishing it will be funny.

I mean about third party multi

 

[Soulblighter31]

those numbers you referenced add up to the x being marginally more powerful overall. The number you didn’t mention is Sony’s custom SSD being more than 100% more powerful in terms of bandwidth than the x’s standard drive. The question is how much can Sonyutilize the drive in their machine to make up for the slight advantage that the x has spec-wise with the components you mentioned and can they utilize with all games. They’ve engineered the system to take advantage of this drive. We’ll see.

Love how you put it. An entire fucking quarter extra power is "marginally". "slight advantage". Its neither marginal nor slight. Its big. Its a QUARTER extra power. There are different generations of graphic cards that dont have that much progress. This is only downplayed by sony fans.

The ssd wont matter in the slightest. The one in xbox is fast enought. What extra speed the one in ps5 has, will not be perceivable by us. We're talking microseconds here. You're not gonna feel it in a meaningful way.

And again, its a damn storage device. Its beyond ridiculous how the entire conversation around ps5 became around a storage device, because everything else is weaker by a large margin. Its a storage device man. Its not gonna transform games and its not gonna have the impact sony fans think it will have

 

[mcjmetroid]

Like more powerful console everytime. You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise.

 

[base]

More power? Halo?

 

[FrankWza]

Love how you put it. An entire fucking quarter extra power is "marginally". "slight advantage". Its neither marginal nor slight. Its big. Its a QUARTER extra power. There are different generations of graphic cards that dont have that much progress. This is only downplayed by sony fans.

The ssd wont matter in the slightest. The one in xbox is fast enought. What extra speed the one in ps5 has, will not be perceivable by us. We're talking microseconds here. You're not gonna feel it in a meaningful way.

And again, its a damn storage device. Its beyond ridiculous how the entire conversation around ps5 became around a storage device, because everything else is weaker by a large margin. Its a storage device man. Its not gonna transform games and its not gonna have the impact sony fans think it will have

I don’t know where you’re getting 25% from. But let’s just say 1 component is 25%,1 is 20%and 1 is 10%. Those 3 ALL matter. But the SSD that is capable of OVER 100% more throughput that will be used to offset the amount of ram needed makes no difference whatsoever because in your mind it’s JUST a storage solution? Ok

 

[Soulblighter31]

I don’t know where you’re getting 25% from. But let’s just say 1 component is 25%,1 is 20%and 1 is 10%. Those 3 ALL matter. But the SSD that is capable of OVER 100% more throughput that will be used to offset the amount of ram needed makes no difference whatsoever because in your mind it’s JUST a storage solution? Ok

Lets ignore the ridiculous claim that the ssd will be used like ram. Lets pretend it will be real. So what ? Huh ? SO .... WHAT ? Its a storage drive, for fucks sake. Will all of a sudden the cpu and gpu not matter anymore because every component in the ps5 is weaker except the drive ? That magic drive will become so important, that everything else wont matter, right ? Like the components that actually run and render the games themselves. Jesus. Sony was blessed with a special breed of fanbase.

 

[Neo_game]

PS5 - 4K 30fps PC High(some medium) settings 1080p RT
XSX - 4K 30fps PC High(some ultra) settings (1080p - 1440p) RT

PS5 - 4K dynamic (most 1440p) 60fps PC Medium (some high) settings (900p - 1080p) RT
XSX - 4K 60fps PC High (some medium) settings 1080p RT

Multiplats games are usually on medium settings on consoles and RT will probably be low. Whatever the difference will be between the console will be scaled accordingly with resolution or dynamic resolution. That is how it has been happening so far and I do not see that changing.

 

[Razvedka]

His numbers don't add up to me either, unless he's counting the PS5 gpu to be sitting at 9ish TF vs towards the higher end of 10.2 TF.

PS5 CPU upper end is 3.5Ghz w/ SMT and XSX's is 3.6Ghz w/ SMT.

If we take Cerny at his word, the console will effectively be at the upper end of its variable range most of the time.

So best case for PS5:
CPU: XSX 100Mhz advantage
GPU: XSX 1.9TF (ish) advantage.

Worst case for PS5:
CPU: ??? I don't know the lower bound.
GPU: XSX 3TF (ish advantage).

Bandwidth is weird given the whole split pools on XSX and cache scrubbers on PS5. But on paper XSX has a sizable advantage for 10GB.

The power gap between the two is only huge if Cerny was wrong/not being honest and the PS5 spends most of its time downclocked.

Notably, this supposition assumes the APIs are equal, and that neither system has any extra benefits from dedicated silicon offloading work relative to the other.

 

[geordiemp]

I mean about third party multi

What have you seen so far to suggest even close to your prediction, anything running on anything..

 

[FrankWza]

The proprietary SSD - how it works and what it delivers
From the very first PlayStation 5 reveal in Wired, Sony has spent a lot of time evangelising its SSD - the solid-state storage solution that will be transformative not just in terms of loading times, but in how games will be able to deliver bigger, more detailed worlds and much more dynamic use of memory. With an impressive 5.5GB/s of raw bandwidth alongside hardware accelerated decoding (boosting effective bandwidth to around 8-9GB/s), PlayStation 5's SSD is clearly a point of pride for Mark Cerny and his team.

Lets ignore the ridiculous claim that the ssd will be used like ram. Lets pretend it will be real. So what ? Huh ? SO .... WHAT ? Its a storage drive, for fucks sake. Will all of a sudden the cpu and gpu not matter anymore because every component in the ps5 is weaker except the drive ? That magic drive will become so important, that everything else wont matter, right ? Like the components that actually run and render the games themselves. Jesus. Sony was blessed with a special breed of fanbase.

I copy pasted fromeugamer. This is from themarch deep dive. So you can choose to ignore what the PS5 architect is saying but I won’t.

 

[GustavoLT]

What have you seen so far to suggest even close to your prediction, anything running on anything..

SpiderMan Remaster
Ratchet and Clank

 

[geordiemp]

SpiderMan Remaster
Ratchet and Clank

Ray tracing, high quality pixels and lighting is expensive.

You will be lucky if XSX games look that good from 3rd parties lol.

You need your eyes testing.

You realise that simple 4k60 without details, effects and lighting like halo is much easier, and looks shit.

All we have seen from XSX is old stuff like gears and halo, both look their age.

 

[GustavoLT]

Ray tracing, high quality pixels and lighting is expensive.

You will be lucky if XSX games look that good from 3rd parties lol.

You need your eyes testing.

You realise that simple 4k60 without details, effects and lighting like halo is much easier, and looks shit.

All we have seen from XSX is old stuff like gears and halo, both look their age.

have you played Red Dead Redemption 2 / Odyssey, Origins / Forza Horizon 4 on OneX... !? FH4 runs at 4K locked 30fps High PC settings (DF´s analisis)

 

[geordiemp]

have you played Red Dead Redemption 2 / Odyssey, Origins / Forza Horizon 4 on OneX... !? FH4 runs at 4K locked 30fps High PC settings (DF´s analisis)

Next gen, not last gen, XBX came out a year later than ps4pro.

 

[MrLove]

loading times, but seriously i think we get much better load times and graphics will be better on ps5. no dev looks at the tf

2-3sec vs 30sec load times is huge and a gamechanger.

even bill stillwell is helpless. 2 options: xsx get lower assets or all 20 sec loading times

 

[GustavoLT]

Next gen, not last gen, XBX came out a year later than ps4pro.

console games are better optimized! they use tricks to make it look good!! Mafia Definitive Edition uses that to simulate RT!

 

[Forsete]

loading times, but seriously i think we get much better load times and graphics will be better on ps5. no dev looks at the tf

2-3sec vs 30sec load times is huge and a gamechanger.

even bill stillwell is helpless. 2 options: xsx get lower assets or all 20 sec loading times

Told ya'll.

 

[Riky]

This next gen/last Gen thing is overblown, how does it work on PC? What is a next gen game, just a game that runs on a next gen console? Or is it a game that only comes out on a next gen console?

If so Titanfall was next gen at X1 launch, until the 360 version came out, was it then not next gen?

Forza Horizon 4 at 4k 60fps and Gears 5 at 120fps are they next gen because last Gen couldn't do those specs?

 

[LisaMariaMartin]

Looks like people put all their hopes into the magic ssd again

 

[Kenpachii]

This is the take of someone that doesn't understand how long and tough these projects are. Game consoles aren't created in a year, these are multi year projects with a lot of investment and design goals.

What you described is nonsense that only exists in the heads of forum console warriors.

Exactly that's why i never stated such a thing. Funny not?

Now read what i say and try again.

It's hilarious if you believe this is what actually happened. Like Sony just threw it in there last minute, wasting a ton of money for no reason.

Again i never stated they threw in a ssd on the last minute and wasting a ton of money for no reason.

Can u guys even read or did i break your braincells with a simple question.

 

[Azurro]

Exactly that's why i never stated such a thing. Funny not?

Now read what i say and try again.



Again i never stated they threw in a ssd on the last minute and wasting a ton of money for no reason.

Can u guys even read or did i break your braincells with a simple question.

I believe you are the one that doesn't understand how these things are planned out, you are definitely pretending this narrative that MS caught Sony by surprise to be real and pushing it.

When Cerny and Sony set out to create the PS5, they decided that one of the aspects that limited game design the most was I/O and set out to create the fastest one they could, as they talked about in their GDC talk.

This isn't a gimmick or some "niche thing that you market the shit out of", they worked on it for years because they noticed that was most important rather than push the TF number as high as posible, while still offering a really powerful machine.

That's the reason they are talking about it, because it's something that has the potential to change how we play games rather than push the TF number that will only result in a bit more pixels on screen or slightly higher resolution ray tracing which won't make much of a difference and it's harder to notice.

 

[Lethal01]

I mean, when did devs became so good overnight that they can single out that theoretical max peformance of the ssd and then design some special game that will need that ssd speed for the entire duration of your gaming session ?

I think I'm just gonna trust the hundred or so Devs screaming at gamers that they do indeed have ways to leverage the SSD in ways that will free up VRAM and allow for things such as more detailed and varied geometry with solutions that will be scalable so that they can use the full power of the PS5 SSD without being held back by slower platforms..

I'd post more but I'm sure if you cared about reality you'd already have seen how wrong you are so I'll just leave this so that others can have fun laughing at you pretending to know what you're talking about.

 

[geordiemp]

I think I'm just gonna trust the hundred or so Devs screaming at gamers that they do indeed have ways to leverage the SSD in ways that will free up VRAM and allow for things such as more detailed and varied geometry with solutions that will be scalable.

I'd post more but I'm sure if you cared about reality you'd already have seen how wrong you are so I'll just leave this so that others can have fun laughing at you pretending to know what you're talking about.

Most of the posters in this thread think the only metric is how many theoretical calcs per second is real world performance, and thats it, nothing else matters or they dont understand anyway.

Lets them dream, when they dont get 18 % more resolution none of them will come back, you can guarantee it, or it wil be wait until the next game as that one was not optimised, MS were not ready or whatever/

 

[MarkMe2525]

Just curious and I think this may be the appropriate thread for this question. Was there a situation during the PS1 and N64 era where the N64 was able to have game mechanics that were only possible because of the near instant access to info on the cart?

I'm not sure if the comparison is even applicable 25 years later, but non the less, I'm curious.

 

[Nester99]

Neither mater,

Only games mater.

Exclusives vs Gamepass this gen. Everything else if fluff.


let them fight.

 

[Lysandros]

What a misleading thread flooded by ignorance, despite some noble efforts.

 

[theddub]

Neither mater,

Only games mater.

Exclusives vs Gamepass this gen. Everything else if fluff.


let them fight.

I'm actually super excited for XSX exclusives more than anything else,

Avowed for example as the game I'm most excited for, XSX is gonna be THE RPG King this gen

 

[FrankWza]

Most of the posters in this thread think the only metric is how many theoretical calcs per second is real world performance, and thats it, nothing else matters or they dont understand anyway.

Lets them dream, when they dont get 18 % more resolution none of them will come back, you can guarantee it, or it wil be wait until the next game as that one was not optimised, MS were not ready or whatever/

What a misleading thread flooded by ignorance, despite some noble efforts.

They must have missed it when the architect of the successor to the second highest selling console of all time went in to detail about it.It was only 6 months ago though...no time to catch up. So much for enthusiasts

 

[The Leaked Truths]

PlayStation Fanboys still believe that the SSD is responsible for rendering the Pixels? Unbelievable

 

[DAHGAMING]

My mates uncle is a top Mafia Don and knows someone at Sony who said it loads quick, sounds great in 3d but looks like a dog shit. Also I know a warlord whos son works at Microsoft, he said that looks so crisp so clean but takes a long long time to load, like 15 seconds.

 

[Soulblighter31]

They must have missed it when the architect of the successor to the second highest selling console of all time went in to detail about it.It was only 6 months ago though...no time to catch up. So much for enthusiasts

the seller that was trying to sell you his product said things out of context and real world scenarios ? No way :O Then it must be so, since he said it.

That Unreal Engine footage is a damn tech demo, not a game. And right after we got leaks it could run on a laptop with a 2080, which was quickly deleted after, probably because it doesnt suit the narative that ps5's magical ssd touched by alladin is just bullshit.

I cant imagine that something more ridiculous than fixating on the storage device can exist. Everything else at least could have been viable in the real world, the ram, the cpu, the gpu. But we had to choose the drive instead =))

 

[geordiemp]

That Unreal Engine footage is a damn tech demo, not a game. And right after we got leaks it could run on a laptop with a 2080, which was quickly deleted after, probably because it doesnt suit the narative that ps5's magical ssd touched by alladin is just bullshit.

False, this was debunked as FUD

 

[Sultan711]

Lets ignore the ridiculous claim that the ssd will be used like ram. Lets pretend it will be real. So what ? Huh ? SO .... WHAT ? Its a storage drive, for fucks sake. Will all of a sudden the cpu and gpu not matter anymore because every component in the ps5 is weaker except the drive ? That magic drive will become so important, that everything else wont matter, right ? Like the components that actually run and render the games themselves. Jesus. Sony was blessed with a special breed of fanbase.

Brother calm down why are you this emotionally invested in PS5 failing lol

 

[geordiemp]

PlayStation Fanboys still believe that the SSD is responsible for rendering the Pixels? Unbelievable

Stil cant belive posters dont understand streaming data and how that would effect performance if going very high details and textures.

it does not matter anyway, Dymnamic 4k is this gen, but Spiderman never dipped below native 4k for 60 FPS, and its effectively open world as a large cty.

So I really dont know where the expectation differences are going to be, especially the resolution posts are laughable.

In 2 months time GAF will be arguing about quality of reflection in a puddle you pass in 2 seconds of gameplay.

Enjoy the games, anyone expecting to see differences will be disappointed, especially 3rd party.

Any game can be native 4k and 60 FPS if dev wants it to be. Or they go RT and effects. Choices/

 

[Soulblighter31]

Brother calm down why are you this emotionally invested in PS5 failing lol

god forbid for it to fail. There are 105 million of ps4 owners and many millions are isis level of fanatics around the brand itself, the corporation. They managed to take a weaker in everything system and claim its marginaly slower to the point that they're basically the same. They took the storage drive and made it out as if you basically just take the ssd itself, place it under the tv and by its lonesome will run everything.

Imagine what will those fans do if this fails in some way

 

[EverydayBeast]

Should be allowed to vote both nobody wants a slow console