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Sigh...Signs of development hell has surfaced for 343 Industries. I'm moving on.

YeulEmeralda

YeulEmeralda

Member
Punished Miku said:
I watch stuff like this for entertainment mostly. But it's not like it's all that reliable. Almost every job can be summarized negatively.

I don't think anyone thinks 343 is running fantastically, but they mostly seem to put out mediocre games with some technical issues. Probably the same case here, and this is their first open world game. Probably mediocre, but potentially enjoyable for a low entry price.
Click to expand...

In fairness most games are mediocre. We cannot expect every developer to crank out triple A blockbusters.
 
F

Foamy

Unconfirmed Member
Monkeygourmet said:
Why is that all studios apart from Sony / Nintendo studios rack discerprin
Click to expand...

Gee I have no idea why the 343 Industries has completely gone down the shitter.

ESlrweCXQAE5PFZ.jpg
 
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danielJackson

danielJackson

Banned
Foamy said:
Gee I have no idea why the 343 Studios has completely gone down the shitter.

ESlrweCXQAE5PFZ.jpg
Click to expand...
While it may sound like sexist, I lately saw a study about men vs women at jobs. And conclusion were that men do more things related to the job / are more efficient at it on average than women, whom spend more time to do things that are not related to the goal of the job (like social stuff, taking care of needs of others, thinking about feelings and so on). In the same exact job. And if those "not directly related to job" tasks are still kind of mandatory, someone have to do it anyway so maybe it is unfair to women if men just do their job and dont care if there is milk in the fridge or not

Simplified: men did on average "100%" and women did "80% and 20% wasted on other things" or something like that.

And all women I have talked about how it is to work on place that consist mainly from women have said: it sucks, so much of energy and time wasted in gossip, trash talk, envy, talking and then instead of being team players they form smaller social units that "fight" for the glory + try to down talk other units. And bosses are usually selfish assholes whom favor their inner circle.

Same women have said that if they have been working at job that have mainly male workers, it is much more relaxed and no time wasted to stupid "who is the head chicken" fights.

Yes, there are talented women and shitty men, and not all workplaces are like this for sure. But if/when there is some truth in this = I would not be surprised if woman only dev team cant achieve same as male only dev teams, even if they are equally talented.

Maybe it is easier to men to be "No-life workers" and spend long hours at job while women like to leave after official hours are over, I have read about that too, men do much more overtime.

Genders have physical+mental differences so of course they can affect the performance of a team. On good and on bad. And there is probably some kind of balance of genders & personalities that is perfect for the performance

On this case, if that picture is from the 343. Maybe they are just shitty devs or their leadership sucks, no matter the gender? OR they have 500 men and these are only women? (but there is at least few men in it too)
 
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F

Foamy

Unconfirmed Member
danielJackson said:
While it may sound like sexist, I lately saw a study about men vs women at jobs. And conclusion were that men do more things related to the job / are more efficient at it on average than women, whom spend more time to do things that are not related to the goal of the job (like social stuff, taking care of needs of others, thinking about feelings and so on). In the same exact job. And if those "not directly related to job" tasks are still kind of mandatory, someone have to do it anyway so maybe it is unfair to women if men just do their job and dont care if there is milk in the fridge or not

Simplified: men did on average "100%" and women did "80% and 20% wasted on other things" or something like that.

And all women I have talked about how it is to work on place that consist mainly from women have said: it sucks, so much of energy and time wasted in gossip, trash talk, envy, talking and then instead of being team players they form smaller social units that "fight" for the glory + try to down talk other units. And bosses are usually selfish assholes whom favor their inner circle.

Same women have said that if they have been working at job that have mainly male workers, it is much more relaxed and no time wasted to stupid "who is the head chicken" fights.

Yes, there are talented women and shitty men, and not all workplaces are like this for sure. But if/when there is some truth in this = I would not be surprised if woman only dev team cant achieve same as male only dev teams, even if they are equally talented.

Maybe it is easier to men to be "No-life workers" and spend long hours at job while women like to leave after official hours are over, I have read about that too, men do much more overtime.

Genders have physical+mental differences so of course they can affect the performance of a team. On good and on bad. And there is probably some kind of balance of genders & personalities that is perfect for the performance

On this case, if that picture is from the 343. Maybe they are just shitty devs or their leadership sucks, no matter the gender? OR they have 500 men and these are only women? (but there is at least few men in it too)
Click to expand...
Anyone worth their paycheck in management will tell you its far easier working with men than women.
 
D

dcll

Banned
Well when you have a bunch of diversity women hires with hormones what do you expect. Women have drama in every workplace
 
VincentMatts

VincentMatts

Member
Dr Bass said:
Turnover is a healthy thing?

The man has lost his mind. Turnover is extremely costly and time consuming for software projects.
Click to expand...

I've worked in multiple companies that had regular turnover. It doesn't necessarily = development hell or toxic environment. Some people are all about their careers and salaries and will move the moment they get offered more money. Other people are more "comfortable" where they are and stick around longer. Its not always toxic.
 
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Verchod

Verchod

Member
danielJackson said:
While it may sound like sexist, I lately saw a study about men vs women at jobs. And conclusion were that men do more things related to the job / are more efficient at it on average than women, whom spend more time to do things that are not related to the goal of the job (like social stuff, taking care of needs of others, thinking about feelings and so on). In the same exact job. And if those "not directly related to job" tasks are still kind of mandatory, someone have to do it anyway so maybe it is unfair to women if men just do their job and dont care if there is milk in the fridge or not

Simplified: men did on average "100%" and women did "80% and 20% wasted on other things" or something like that.

And all women I have talked about how it is to work on place that consist mainly from women have said: it sucks, so much of energy and time wasted in gossip, trash talk, envy, talking and then instead of being team players they form smaller social units that "fight" for the glory + try to down talk other units. And bosses are usually selfish assholes whom favor their inner circle.

Same women have said that if they have been working at job that have mainly male workers, it is much more relaxed and no time wasted to stupid "who is the head chicken" fights.

Yes, there are talented women and shitty men, and not all workplaces are like this for sure. But if/when there is some truth in this = I would not be surprised if woman only dev team cant achieve same as male only dev teams, even if they are equally talented.

Maybe it is easier to men to be "No-life workers" and spend long hours at job while women like to leave after official hours are over, I have read about that too, men do much more overtime.

Genders have physical+mental differences so of course they can affect the performance of a team. On good and on bad. And there is probably some kind of balance of genders & personalities that is perfect for the performance

On this case, if that picture is from the 343. Maybe they are just shitty devs or their leadership sucks, no matter the gender? OR they have 500 men and these are only women? (but there is at least few men in it too)
Click to expand...
I think maybe they're glorifying things here. Men maybe more into the job they have, I don't doubt that as its more selfish, but they are certainly not harder working. I've ran into far more men who are lazy and complete chancers than I have women.

Men aren't more productive.
 
ReBurn

ReBurn

Gold Member
Dr Bass said:
Turnover is a healthy thing?

The man has lost his mind. Turnover is extremely costly and time consuming for software projects.
Click to expand...
Sometimes turnover is a healthy thing. If there are people on the team who are bringing others down sometimes they may need to go. If there are people who aren't bought in to the plan and vision they may need to go. After leading commercial software development teams for many years I can attest that all it takes is one dissatisfied person on the team to put a project in jeopardy. Software developers can be some of the most difficult people to keep engaged in team goals.
 
Hendrick's

Hendrick's

If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
danielJackson said:
While it may sound like sexist, I lately saw a study about men vs women at jobs. And conclusion were that men do more things related to the job / are more efficient at it on average than women, whom spend more time to do things that are not related to the goal of the job (like social stuff, taking care of needs of others, thinking about feelings and so on). In the same exact job. And if those "not directly related to job" tasks are still kind of mandatory, someone have to do it anyway so maybe it is unfair to women if men just do their job and dont care if there is milk in the fridge or not

Simplified: men did on average "100%" and women did "80% and 20% wasted on other things" or something like that.

And all women I have talked about how it is to work on place that consist mainly from women have said: it sucks, so much of energy and time wasted in gossip, trash talk, envy, talking and then instead of being team players they form smaller social units that "fight" for the glory + try to down talk other units. And bosses are usually selfish assholes whom favor their inner circle.

Same women have said that if they have been working at job that have mainly male workers, it is much more relaxed and no time wasted to stupid "who is the head chicken" fights.

Yes, there are talented women and shitty men, and not all workplaces are like this for sure. But if/when there is some truth in this = I would not be surprised if woman only dev team cant achieve same as male only dev teams, even if they are equally talented.

Maybe it is easier to men to be "No-life workers" and spend long hours at job while women like to leave after official hours are over, I have read about that too, men do much more overtime.

Genders have physical+mental differences so of course they can affect the performance of a team. On good and on bad. And there is probably some kind of balance of genders & personalities that is perfect for the performance

On this case, if that picture is from the 343. Maybe they are just shitty devs or their leadership sucks, no matter the gender? OR they have 500 men and these are only women? (but there is at least few men in it too)
Click to expand...
TLDR: Women are only good for one thing.
 
Dr Bass

Dr Bass

Member
ReBurn said:
Sometimes turnover is a healthy thing. If there are people on the team who are bringing others down sometimes they may need to go. If there are people who aren't bought in to the plan and vision they may need to go. After leading commercial software development teams for many years I can attest that all it takes is one dissatisfied person on the team to put a project in jeopardy. Software developers can be some of the most difficult people to keep engaged in team goals.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I know all that stuff. I'm the engineering lead at my company. But I wouldn't consider that "turnover", that's needing to fire an employee that is damaging the morale or effectiveness of the team. I've seen that too, and plenty. It's not the same thing.

There is tons of information about there about how employee turnover can basically be indicative of a company's long term success. A high turnover rate in general at a place that is highly dependent on knowledge workers is bad. There is no real way to spin that fact.

So either Spencer is lying or he is completely incompetent. If I were the CEO of a massive company like Microsoft and one of my VPs of an engineering department came to me said "I'm really happy with our high turnover rate, it means we have constant fresh blood and people eager to work!" I would fire that person on the spot.
 
tkscz

tkscz

Member
Foamy said:
Gee I have no idea why the 343 Industries has completely gone down the shitter.

ESlrweCXQAE5PFZ.jpg
Click to expand...

This is just a picture of all their female workers taken for internet brownie points. Doesn't say anything about the work place environment as a whole. And while danielJackson danielJackson makes an interesting point, we can't say for sure if that's the case here or not.
 
Mamofish

Mamofish

Member
Guy in the back looks happy!

Kidding aside... I think there is a general worry about companies hiring for social points rather than focusing on talent and ruining their precious game franchises. Not saying the people in the picture are not talented, this is my assumption of what the picture of the woke dev is supposed to represent but, it's not a very good one.

This is the cycle of things, passionate dev team makes great game, big company moves in on making money with sure thing. Game turns to shit under company that cares about money over game.

It's time to move on, create the next original.
 
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ReBurn

ReBurn

Gold Member
Dr Bass said:
Yeah, I know all that stuff. I'm the engineering lead at my company. But I wouldn't consider that "turnover", that's needing to fire an employee that is damaging the morale or effectiveness of the team. I've seen that too, and plenty. It's not the same thing.

There is tons of information about there about how employee turnover can basically be indicative of a company's long term success. A high turnover rate in general at a place that is highly dependent on knowledge workers is bad. There is no real way to spin that fact.

So either Spencer is lying or he is completely incompetent. If I were the CEO of a massive company like Microsoft and one of my VPs of an engineering department came to me said "I'm really happy with our high turnover rate, it means we have constant fresh blood and people eager to work!" I would fire that person on the spot.
Click to expand...
Anytime someone exits it is turnover. A consistently high turnover rate is typically indicative of a problem, yes. But a really low turnover rate is also indicative of a problem. If people never leave it's probably not because the company is great. It's probably because you have people who aren't being challenged and are happily coasting. The article doesn't really say that turnover is high, but with a studio head exiting there's bound to be some downstream fallout and additional turnover as people either adapt to the change in leadership or the get coached out the door.

Also, software development in general is no longer a highly specialized field where turnover has a long term negative impact to projects. With high level languages and development tools being as efficient as they are it's possible to move new people into teams with relatively little disruption to projects. Unless there's some really esoteric processes or specialized technology in place it's usually not difficult to absorb 10%-12% turnover and stay productive. Once you get above 18% or so there's likely some sort of underlying issue with leadership that needs to be addressed.

I'm sure it's a bit tougher to absorb turnover with game development where the skills are more specialized. But I don't have any illusion that every software developer who gets a job making games is somehow an employee a company can't live without.
 
F

Foamy

Unconfirmed Member
tkscz said:
This is just a picture of all their female workers taken for internet brownie points. Doesn't say anything about the work place environment as a whole. And while danielJackson danielJackson makes an interesting point, we can't say for sure if that's the case here or not.
Click to expand...
I know that and I agree completely.
What I have a problem with is companies who go out of their way to draw attention to how diverse they are. Like this picture, which was posted on their website celebrating National womens day. Do they ask all the afro Americans in the office to line up for a photo op on Martin Luther King day?
Shit its St. Patty's next week, get us some little people from the temp agency and dress them up in green.
Nothing says we respect our employees more than parading them out like props to show the world what a great company we are.

OR they could just disperse with the SJW agenda, concentrate on what they do and let their work and employees speak for themselves.
 
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JCK75

JCK75

Member
I imagine it's not too unlike IT where I work when you get two different scenarios, one is a boss that likes to micromanage everything and it results in a lot of bad decisions and cluster f's, The second is the complete opposite where the boss wants to be cool and let everyone do what they want and people get too relaxed and don't really do much work. I'm lucky that in the last two bosses I've had I've landed right in the middle for the boss trust that you know what you're doing allows you to do it but demands there be results.
 
timmyp53

timmyp53

Member
Staff photos to show diversity actually is a thing that exist(yes it is cheesy). Are there stats to prove that they are the majority in development team. And even if they were who cares? If the game ends up decent thats all that matters.
 
Valued Gamer

Valued Gamer

Banned
Foamy said:
Gee I have no idea why the 343 Industries has completely gone down the shitter.

ESlrweCXQAE5PFZ.jpg
Click to expand...
Interestingly though, they are never short of sandwiches. J/k

If you are using a group of people of a similar bond (race, gender or religion) as a promotional opportunity, you might not have the right intentions.
 
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