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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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DJ12

Member
Even after the patch PS5's version is vastly superior visually, at least:

dirt5xsxps5.png


From:


Look at all the vrs happening in the xbox scene. Shame riky doesn't know what's he's talking about. I would like him to explain what else is causing the huge loss in detail in the xbox shot.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member

Ghost of Tsushima Sequel confirmed by Sucker Punch’s Cinematic Creative Director




👀
Industry’s worst kept secret.

1) the sales cemented it
2) their hiring shoutout a month or so ago mentioned a new historical feudal Japan game
3) stoked to see what they flex on the PS5
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
People really still talking about Dirt 5? That game was a disaster and should never have been released in that state.

it wasn't great on the PS5, and was unfinished on XsX. GT sport running BC on the PS5 or Forza Horizon on the XsX piss all over. It ain't even close.

Let it go, using this game as proof of anything is ridiculous..
Just like the fanatical crazies arguing about Hitman mofo 3 as if it’s some sort of benchmark of next gen excellence.
 

Imtjnotu

Member
Back to the real issues. Finally moved the shelf for ps5. Cable management maybe later next week :p
Had to remove most of my coke bottles collection to make room for 360 (not connected) but I think I prefer to see those games, rather than bottles... lol
At the same time, it would be much tidier if I got rid of 360 and most of the bottles... maybe it's time to move on
KWJLunm.jpg
How did you get your ps5 to play on a tablet screen?
 

Bo_Hazem

Banned
I think that's a bit unfair - unless the person in question continues to refute a fact when getting the info first hand, rather than third hand, it is just getting info verified IMO.

Richard actually implied in his line of questioning that Cerny was lying - in his Road to PS5 talk- in the post interview he gave DF, and even now they still claim surprise at the PS5 performance - so clearly refuse to understand or accept info direct from a first hand source that isn't a sales person or marketing person or manager, but a technical industry luminary.

And we all find ourselves on the wrong side of something in a discussion on the internet, don't we? Surely as long as people accept the facts when the dust settles - after people are no longer entrenched in a discussion - it is all fine, no? Arguing IMHO is a fantastic way to learn quickly and clears up any misinformation.

There, that's my Oxford University teacher. I personally got confused in the Demon's Souls matter due to the official site saying raytracing, as Mr Moose Mr Moose explained. Also 1 year before I knew dog shit, but learning a lot from here from the great posters, and you are one of them.

I feel no shame in being wrong in a technical subject and be corrected, and even onesvenus onesvenus got my admission on this very matter way, way back. I'm actually "too" surprised, makes me think that he's overestimating my technical background. I personally think that I've been pretty flexible in many matters and don't hold a false ground when proven wrong.

If I'm an expert in anything it'll be debating, it's a daily practice since a was a little one in nearly every subject. Got a pretty OP stamina in that makes some friends resort to personal banter when they get exhausted, which I'm pretty good at as well. :lollipop_tears_of_joy:
 
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Ghost of Tsushima Sequel confirmed by Sucker Punch’s Cinematic Creative Director




👀
it sounds more like PS5 version for Ghost of Tsushima, like a proper next-gen patch.

I'm sure HeisenbergFX4 HeisenbergFX4 also mentioned that the last of us 2 and ghost of tsushima where receiving a next gen patch as well.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Thanks!

Quoting his post here because as always Alex puts his keen and penetrating mind to the task only to arrive at the wrong conclusions.

I will respond more in full later - But the 2070S offered flat out better performance than PS5, not just in the bandwidth constrained area that I Highlight (PS5 drops frames on each Camera cut while 2070S does not). 2060S goes below PS5 as I Show in the Video. XSX bests both the 2060S and 2070S, not not a great Deal above the 2070s though and the 2070S actually has less drastic Camera cut frame drops.

The reason why I find this comparison from this video so compelling is because like watchdogs Legion, we have most of the important settings that greatly affect framerate in the scene we are looking at being 100% there on PC - mirror Match for the big settings. It also just happens to be a scene where the bandwidth sapping particles are full on screen. Ass Creed comparison I unfortunately think Was another of these instances where the particle quality was affecting performance greatly (fire effects on screen there). I also think the same for call of duty. So yes, i find this hitman comp to be the truest measured of performance I have produced yet next to WDL. It just happens to Also be measuring over draw performance. Maybe if more devs are nice to us we will get a game with an unlocked framerate and exact settings at some point to do this again but also Show more of the differences.

I think Blops and Ass Creed were disadvantaging PC in ways that cannot be overlooked especially given the scenes that I was realsitically able to choose from to compare performance.
The test he is talking about is flawed because his findings in that cutscene test are going against his own benchmarks that show the 2060 super performing worse than the PS5.

What's even more bizarre is that he using a test that shows the Nvidia GPUs as performing better than AMD GPUs even though overall the game performs better on AMD cards. Surely the test is flawed and I dont care how "compelling" the results are to him, they clearly dont line up with his own findings.

I like how he says that the XSX is beating both the 2060 super and the 2070 super and yet the comparison he's talking about here shows the opposite. I get that it's a different test measuring different things, but in his post he calls this test compelling and more accurate/truest test of performance. The guy is a walking contradiction.

fHVSDJp.png
 
it sounds more like PS5 version for Ghost of Tsushima, like a proper next-gen patch.

I'm sure HeisenbergFX4 HeisenbergFX4 also mentioned that the last of us 2 and ghost of tsushima where receiving a next gen patch as well.

Ghost received next gen patch, allowed the PS4 code to uncap the frame rate at the higher resolution mode and it ran at 60fps on PS5!
 

JonkyDonk

Member
Thanks!

Quoting his post here because as always Alex puts his keen and penetrating mind to the task only to arrive at the wrong conclusions.






The test he is talking about is flawed because his findings in that cutscene test are going against his own benchmarks that show the 2060 super performing worse than the PS5.

What's even more bizarre is that he using a test that shows the Nvidia GPUs as performing better than AMD GPUs even though overall the game performs better on AMD cards. Surely the test is flawed and I dont care how "compelling" the results are to him, they clearly dont line up with his own findings.

I like how he says that the XSX is beating both the 2060 super and the 2070 super and yet the comparison he's talking about here shows the opposite. I get that it's a different test measuring different things, but in his post he calls this test compelling and more accurate/truest test of performance. The guy is a walking contradiction.

fHVSDJp.png
I can't quite make sense of what is going on. How does the PS5 go from performing like a 2080S in one game and then a month later it's like a 2060S. How does the Series X make such a dramatic turnaround, from being like ~30% behind to being ~40% ahead. If 1800p on PS5 is as taxing as 2160p on XSX, then how come in that one stress level XSX drops frames but PS5 doesn't. Isn't that evidence of headroom?

DF were so puzzled by the AC Valhalla results and didn't really accept it as indicative of the consoles' relative performance, but they are so quick to push forward Hitman 3 as the gold standard benchmark. It's confusing. I just want more games to come out quickly so we have more benchmarks to look at.
 

JonkyDonk

Member
Why do some of you folks make mountain of a molehill? So what PS5 version doesn't perform as well it should on Hitman 3, so be it. Move on man, this is just madness with constant validation and comparison with PC cards and Series X SlimySnake SlimySnake MasterCornholio MasterCornholio Every other game has been performing admirably on PS5. Just move on and go play the games!
You are right, it doesn't really matter. It's kind of fascinating to puzzle out what is going on with gaming hardware, and what the hell Alex is talking about at any given time! But it doesn't actually affect me much. Once I can find a new GPU then I will have the option to play all these multiplats better than any console. And I will enjoy my PS5 for exclusives, which will always be the best showcase for the console.

I do sometimes think that I was happier with games back in the day when I didn't think about resolution and frame-rate and ray-tracing and all of this shit.
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I can't quite make sense of what is going on. How does the PS5 go from performing like a 2080S in one game and then a month later it's like a 2060S. How does the Series X make such a dramatic turnaround, from being like ~30% behind to being ~40% ahead. If 1800p on PS5 is as taxing as 2160p on XSX, then how come in that one stress level XSX drops frames but PS5 doesn't. Isn't that evidence of headroom?

DF were so puzzled by the AC Valhalla results and didn't really accept it as indicative of the consoles' relative performance, but they are so quick to push forward Hitman 3 as the gold standard benchmark. It's confusing. I just want more games to come out quickly so we have more benchmarks to look at.
TBH, I always expected the series x to perform better. not 40% better but 15-20% always made sense to me. I was just as surprised when the XSX launch games performed worse.

And yes, there is definitely a lot of headroom there on the PS5 which is why its bizarre to see Alex jump to conclusions here. And wrong ones at that. Because PC benchmarks show that the 2060 Super comes very close to hitting 60 fps at native 4k medium settings. And his own testing, not the memory bandwidth one, but actual ingame performance shows the PS5 outperforming the 2060 super.

CKeg6A4wGLjRFaTGSq8yD9-970-80.png


So the PS5 should be able to do a lot better than 1800p. I am guessing they were aiming for a locked 60 fps on the PS5 and settled on the resolution that gave them that locked 60 fps. I was looking at some 5700xt benchmarks and the performance is all over the place. Some levels hit 75 fps while others drop to 50 fps at native 4k. I think they didnt want the PS5 dropping to 50 fps and just settled on 1800p instead.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
I do sometimes think that I was happier with games back in the day when I didn't think about resolution and frame-rate and ray-tracing and all of this shit.
You would have cared about sprite size, rotation and scaling, true alpha blending vs dithering tricks, hblank scaling tricks for Mode7 like effects, number of frames of animation, banding or weird dithering in background layers, unique tile sets, infinite scrolling vs screen based scrolling, speed of scrolling, number of colore per active palette, color depth of the palette and tricks to do per frame palette swaps, MIDI and PCM vs FM Synthesisers for sound and music, number of active audio channels, number of active sprites per line, maximum sprite size, number of background/scrolling layers, number of parallax layers active, etc...

We had plenty to shit talk about :D.
 
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onesvenus

Member
I think that's a bit unfair - unless the person in question continues to refute a fact when getting the info first hand, rather than third hand, it is just getting info verified IMO.

Richard actually implied in his line of questioning that Cerny was lying - in his Road to PS5 talk- in the post interview he gave DF, and even now they still claim surprise at the PS5 performance - so clearly refuse to understand or accept info direct from a first hand source that isn't a sales person or marketing person or manager, but a technical industry luminary.

And we all find ourselves on the wrong side of something in a discussion on the internet, don't we? Surely as long as people accept the facts when the dust settles - after people are no longer entrenched in a discussion - it is all fine, no? Arguing IMHO is a fantastic way to learn quickly and clears up any misinformation.
Well, the people you talk about on your first sentence is exactly the kind of people I was talking about. This thread is full of people who repeat some claims without having no proof and not being able to provide it whatsoever, just because that allows them to paint their prefered plastic box in a better light. How many times have we read that PS5 uses some RDNA3 features? Or that it has infinity cache? Or that the CPU cache is not split? People can, at most, write some congetures around that but throwing those things as absolute facts. In addition to that, how many times have we read some bad logic inference to talk about how powerful one plastic box is versus the other?

It's not only posters but also video creators. Case in point, in another forum I saw a video of one of the biggest Spanish youtube games channels laughing at DF and claiming that COD: Cold War had RT on the Series S. It was doing so by showing what clearly was shadow mapping, with all the macroblocking, etc. That video had hundreds or thousands of views and all the people were spreading that as fact because that channel said that. I suppose it's this kind of thing that really bothers me and that makes me think about the responsability we all have. Nothing happens to say "I don't know that" or to talk about what you think as speculation instead of an absolute truth which you can't prove.
There, that's my Oxford University teacher. I personally got confused in the Demon's Souls matter due to the official site saying raytracing, as Mr Moose Mr Moose explained. Also 1 year before I knew dog shit, but learning a lot from here from the great posters, and you are one of them.

I feel no shame in being wrong in a technical subject and be corrected, and even onesvenus onesvenus got my admission on this very matter way, way back. I'm actually "too" surprised, makes me think that he's overestimating my technical background. I personally think that I've been pretty flexible in many matters and don't hold a false ground when proven wrong.

If I'm an expert in anything it'll be debating, it's a daily practice since a was a little one in nearly every subject. Got a pretty OP stamina in that makes some friends resort to personal banter when they get exhausted, which I'm pretty good at as well. :lollipop_tears_of_joy:
Bo_Hazem Bo_Hazem I wasn't talking about you specifically, you know I love you :p
 

JonkyDonk

Member
You would have cared about sprite size, rotation and scaling, true alpha blending vs dithering tricks, hblank scaling tricks for Mode7 like effects, number of frames of animation, banding or weird dithering in background layers, unique tile sets, infinite scrolling vs screen based scrolling, number of colore per active palette, color depth of the palette and tricks to do per frame palette swaps, MIDI and PCM vs FM Synthesisers for sound and music, number of active audio channels, number of active sprites per line, maximum sprite size, number of background/scrolling layers, number of parallax layers active, etc...

We had plenty to shit talk about :D.
Oh I know, arguing over stupid shit has always been a favoured pastime for folks! But I was too young and not that deep into gaming when that stuff was a thing; and when I did eventually get into games properly I was still completely oblivious to anything technical for many years. It would be liberating to go back to that honestly, to just play games and not think about how much better the fidelity or performance could or should be. And not just that, I think games would be better if developers didn't have to worry so much fidelity and performance, and instead focused on more interesting gameplay systems.
 
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Bo_Hazem

Banned
Bo_Hazem Bo_Hazem Bo_Hazem Bo_Hazem I wasn't talking about you specifically, you know I love you :p

I know that I rarely clash with you from time to time, but I know that you're galaxies ahead of me in terms of knowledge and experience. But that won't stop me from debating or arguing with you, it's just the way of life and even in college which was problematic sometimes as some doctors don't like it especially when I hit the right spot. Even if Mark Cerny was here I might debate with him on some subjects. I think that's the way you build up your knowledge without having first-hand experience like you have.

I just came from clinic and been asking the dentist questions while he's working. Well, now I know that they use titanium/nickel mix instead of steel in their tools, and they're 1-time usage so it's one of the things justifying the steep price for one tooth, along with the x-ray, a strange machine that reads the depth of how much he should dig to reach the nerve, etc.

It's not about disrespecting or discrediting, no one should approach a debate/discussion that way. Knowing more usually results in appreciating more. :messenger_ok:
 
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Bo_Hazem

Banned
Why do some of you folks make mountain of a molehill? So what PS5 version doesn't perform as well it should on Hitman 3, so be it. Move on man, this is just madness with constant validation and comparison with PC cards and Series X SlimySnake SlimySnake MasterCornholio MasterCornholio Every other game has been performing admirably on PS5. Just move on and go play the games!

This is the charm of this thread, here we break things to understand them better. The best thread ever! 🥳
 

Dibils2k

Member
Look at all the vrs happening in the xbox scene. Shame riky doesn't know what's he's talking about. I would like him to explain what else is causing the huge loss in detail in the xbox shot.
its not VRS 😂😂😂 VRS doesnt just remove textures, it just lowers res, so its either lower AF or draw distance, simple as
 

Bo_Hazem

Banned
sprite size, rotation and scaling, true alpha blending vs dithering tricks, hblank scaling tricks for Mode7 like effects, number of frames of animation, banding or weird dithering in background layers, unique tile sets, infinite scrolling vs screen based scrolling, number of colore per active palette, color depth of the palette and tricks to do per frame palette swaps, MIDI and PCM vs FM Synthesisers for sound and music, number of active audio channels, number of active sprites per line, maximum sprite size, number of background/scrolling layers, number of parallax layers active, etc...

4v7xhg.jpg
 
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ToadMan

Member
Straight up, that's what he said. And other people over there were saying that this is the only game that wasn't rushed/bugged/unoptimised so it's the only one that shows the true standings.

Well that’s false. I played the opening level and had plenty of bugs and weirdness - graphics glitches and the AI is just brain dead. Even had a crash again ... I expected much more given the reviews but the initial impressions of this are bad.

But putting aside the bugs, it just doesn’t look that good. I don’t think it looks “next gen” at all. Animations are stiff, 47’s character and textures are poor looking even by PS4 standards.

It seems to me this needs at least a couple of patches from IO before I could see it being a decent last gen game. I don’t think it can be patched to be a next gen game - the core engine is just limited by last gen.

Demon’s souls is still the only next gen looking game that I’ve played - I haven’t tried MIles Morales yet though.
 

FranXico

Member
Straight up, that's what he said. And other people over there were saying that this is the only game that wasn't rushed/bugged/unoptimised so it's the only one that shows the true standings.
How many devs is Alex calling "lazy" in this way?

Is shaming devs who don't make the Xbox version better no matter what going to become a thing then?
 
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JonkyDonk

Member
How many devs is Alex calling "lazy" in this way?

Is shaming devs who don't make the Xbox version better no matter what going to become a thing then?
To be fair, it wasn't him who said the thing about games being rushed or whatever. That was the other people in that thread.

Alex is mainly talking about PC GPUs versus the consoles. He really wants to put the consoles in their place, especially the PS5, and he is saying that the Hitman 3 benchmark is the most correct measure of how performant these consoles are because he can match the settings exactly. But the problem is that if by his logic the PS5 is more or less a 2060S and the XSX is above a 2070S, then how does he explain the other game benchmarks and the number of times that PS5 has peformed better? Is he saying that it was all really about the tools? Have the tools improved so much in such a short time that XSX has made ~70% gain? Did IOI unlock the hidden power that nobody else could? Did the PS5 get weaker in the last month??
 

ethomaz

Banned
Thanks!

Quoting his post here because as always Alex puts his keen and penetrating mind to the task only to arrive at the wrong conclusions.






The test he is talking about is flawed because his findings in that cutscene test are going against his own benchmarks that show the 2060 super performing worse than the PS5.

What's even more bizarre is that he using a test that shows the Nvidia GPUs as performing better than AMD GPUs even though overall the game performs better on AMD cards. Surely the test is flawed and I dont care how "compelling" the results are to him, they clearly dont line up with his own findings.

I like how he says that the XSX is beating both the 2060 super and the 2070 super and yet the comparison he's talking about here shows the opposite. I get that it's a different test measuring different things, but in his post he calls this test compelling and more accurate/truest test of performance. The guy is a walking contradiction.

fHVSDJp.png
The Mr. Batalia really shows his "reaching" lol
Let's see what he will say with next game that doesn't fit his agenda (most will).
 

DJ12

Member
its not VRS 😂😂😂 VRS doesnt just remove textures, it just lowers res, so its either lower AF or draw distance, simple as
Interesting theory, wrong, but interesting all the same. Thanks for your efforts.

You can tell it's VRS as the colours all merge together, even in the portion before the gap near the loan plant where the LOD is still trying to draw pebbles.

You can even see the squares being drawn on the rocks to the right of the jump.

Yes it's lower res than PS5 (not that much that pixels look 4x bigger though), draw distance is the same (lod difference also the same)

If you want another crack at denying the application of VRS, please deal with the points about which are not explained by anything you have mentioned.
 

Dibils2k

Member
Interesting theory, wrong, but interesting all the same. Thanks for your efforts.

You can tell it's VRS as the colours all merge together, even in the portion before the gap near the loan plant where the LOD is still trying to draw pebbles.

You can even see the squares being drawn on the rocks to the right of the jump.

Yes it's lower res than PS5 (not that much that pixels look 4x bigger though), draw distance is the same (lod difference also the same)

If you want another crack at denying the application of VRS, please deal with the points about which are not explained by anything you have mentioned.
draw distance and LOD is the same? do you not see the road at the back?? ps5 has textures, xbox one doesnt

you dont understand what VRS is, thats fine
 
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kyliethicc

Member
Silent hill and mgs remake never happening


No that's not quite true. They're dissolving their 3 production divisions but not the other ones (I think), which would be enough to still license IPs to other companies (like Sony) to make games, shows, etc. They literally have a separate division just for IP management.

All this shows is that Konami is not going to be making any of these rumored games themselves.
 

THEAP99

Banned
No that's not quite true. They're dissolving their 3 production divisions but not the other ones (I think), which would be enough to still license IPs to other companies (like Sony) to make games, shows, etc. They literally have a separate division just for IP management.

All this shows is that Konami is not going to be making any of these rumored games themselves.
Oh ok. Thx
 

Segslack

Neo Member
N
No that's not quite true. They're dissolving their 3 production divisions but not the other ones (I think), which would be enough to still license IPs to other companies (like Sony) to make games, shows, etc. They literally have a separate division just for IP management.

All this shows is that Konami is not going to be making any of these rumored games themselves.
Now the MGS & SH rumor makes more sense...
 
Ghost received next gen patch, allowed the PS4 code to uncap the frame rate at the higher resolution mode and it ran at 60fps on PS5!
I was thinking that too, but as others have pointed out as well his wording is a little a strange, 'presently working on the Ghost of Tsushima game for PS5'', he didn't explicitly state it was a sequel and he mentioned the title as definite. However, we already know through other sources the sequel is in the works so he could just be referring to that.

Hello again!

Has there been any info (or rumours) about checkerboard 2.0?

I'm more excited about this tech now, since Nvidia's DLSS has made it quite apparent how useful they can be.

Checkerboard 1.0 was good, so looking forward to whatever advances have been made since.
I don't think we'll see Checkerboard 2.0, but we already know AMD is working on an upscaling technology which will be avaible across the PC, PS5 and Series X, although little details are known about it. I don't expect it to come close to something like DLSS (which has a lot of dedicated silicon).
 

DJ12

Member
draw distance and LOD is the same? do you not see the road at the back?? ps5 has textures, xbox one doesnt

you dont understand what VRS is, thats fine
OK, you obviously buy your shoes from Bozo's shop.

See where the pebbles stop being rendered, its the same distance from the camera, LOD is the same.

There is nothing cut off the xbox version at a certain range, so the draw distance is the same or the same as can be established with this image. Flags, hoardings all present in both versions.

And I have pointed out where VRS is blatantly in effect, and as expected you ignored them completely as it doesn't fit with your "there's no VRS" narrative.

vrs_softparticle.png


See anything familiar in this image? Such as pixels being merged, detail being lost and "squares" clearly evident.

But yeah, I don't know what VRS is.
 

Bo_Hazem

Banned
Well that’s false. I played the opening level and had plenty of bugs and weirdness - graphics glitches and the AI is just brain dead. Even had a crash again ... I expected much more given the reviews but the initial impressions of this are bad.

But putting aside the bugs, it just doesn’t look that good. I don’t think it looks “next gen” at all. Animations are stiff, 47’s character and textures are poor looking even by PS4 standards.

It seems to me this needs at least a couple of patches from IO before I could see it being a decent last gen game. I don’t think it can be patched to be a next gen game - the core engine is just limited by last gen.

Demon’s souls is still the only next gen looking game that I’ve played - I haven’t tried MIles Morales yet though.

Yeah, after Hitman 2, I'm not wasting my money on that garbage. AI is the biggest problem in the game, and AI should be the main thing in such a game. The scores seem too high and deceiving like Hitman 2.
 

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Yeah, after Hitman 2, I'm not wasting my money on that garbage. AI is the biggest problem in the game, and AI should be the main thing in such a game. The scores seem too high and deceiving like Hitman 2.
The point of Hitman games is the fact that the NPCs have exacting routines. The expectation isn't dynamic AI, it's actually predictable AI.

Loads of people love these games, I don't think high scores are deceiving lol, you just don't like the games.
 
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