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Do you think it will be possible for Nintendo to ever create a Mario game as groundbreaking as Mario64 was?
- Thread starter clem84
- Start date
TexMex
Member
No
Those are definitely great games, but if we're talking groundbreaking here (and not magical) - Odyssey and Galaxy are not groundbreaking games. They're excellent games on the 64 formula. Neither move Mario forward like that very first pivot to 3D, which was insane.
Those are definitely great games, but if we're talking groundbreaking here (and not magical) - Odyssey and Galaxy are not groundbreaking games. They're excellent games on the 64 formula. Neither move Mario forward like that very first pivot to 3D, which was insane.
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SlimeGooGoo
Party Gooper
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Touch fuzZy. get BizZay
Member
Not without technology that shifts the way we game drastically.
To clarify, it's not "groundbreaking" to make an excellent, high quality game that iterates on established formulas like recent triple AAA 3D Mario games. Groundbreaking would be establishing something new that others then follow.
To clarify, it's not "groundbreaking" to make an excellent, high quality game that iterates on established formulas like recent triple AAA 3D Mario games. Groundbreaking would be establishing something new that others then follow.
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ManaByte
Member
Astrobot felt the same but for VR.It's not possible ATM. Mario 64 was THE seminal moment in 3D gaming, and if you weren't at least a teen when it released I think it's hard to describe what a big deal it felt like.
Kinda miss those days sometimes.
Kilau
Member
If only Nintendo had the balls to release the REAL revolution...
That wouldn’t have happened.
Dr Bass
Member
I was thinking about that, but it's still just a VR version of what already existed. VR is rad, but I just don't think it has the same easy mass appeal of seeing Mario 64 for the first time.
It was impossible to ignore Mario 64 when it was released. Like, literally impossible. AstroBot is enjoyed by only a few unfortunately. I don't really have a solid prediction as to what the future of VR holds. Stuff has to be brain dead easy for the public to get into it.
ManaByte
Member
That is completely wrong. Did you even play the game? The way the game uses the VR environment in its level design is every bit as revolutionary as the 3D in Mario 64.
ManaByte
Member
Go play Astrobot on PSVR.
Dr Bass
Member
Yes I've played it, I had PSVR and sold it and would gladly get a new version for PS5 if something good for it comes out. I'm not discounting it, or your opinion at all. Like I said I thought of that game, but decided against using it as an example and it's clear to me why.
Let me ask you this.
Someone just asked this about Mario 64 and if something could be produced that would be as groundbreaking.
So by default, Mario 64 is still being talked about and discussed 25 years later.
You can argue its because VR doesn't have the same reach, so not as maybe people got to experience it,
But how many people talked about Astrobot when it even released? As great as Astrobot was, it just didn't have the same impact. No one is going to be talking about it 20+ years from now, almost no one is talking about it now. The ratings for it also didn't reach the heights of Mario 64, which again, was a huge revelation at the time for so many reasons.
You can say I am wrong, and that is fine, this is just my opinion ... but now I ask you ... were you really into games when Mario 64 released? It felt like a monumental shift in the entire medium and it changed everything. Astrobot simply didn't do that. Inventive yes, a new experience yes, but not a paradigm change. And people are still measuring games against Nintendo's offering.
That is the difference for Mario 64.
nerdface
Banned
I wish I had a VR setup. I did enjoy the shit out of Blue Fire tho. That game kicks mario in the dick tits.
ShigeruMiyamoto
Neo Member
Bowser's Fury was really good too. I feel like this question is a non-starter, Nintendo has innovated light years beyond how good Mario 64 was, even at the time.
01011001
Banned
Odyssey didn't even show its core gameplay mechanic in the first trailer and still wowed people and created unholy amounts of hype... by showing gameplay WITHOUT the core mechanic that actually makes it different. what game can claim the same?
but at the same time, how could it be more groundbreaking than literally setting the gold standard for the entire 3D platformer genre? like it also did before with the 2D platformer genre.
so not really... only if they somehow make a revolutionary VR platformer out of it that sets a new gold standard for that genre
but at the same time, how could it be more groundbreaking than literally setting the gold standard for the entire 3D platformer genre? like it also did before with the 2D platformer genre.
so not really... only if they somehow make a revolutionary VR platformer out of it that sets a new gold standard for that genre
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Mohonky
Member
I don't like Odyssey personally and I don't see the 'ground breaking' part of it.
As to the OPs question; not really possible to compare, Mario64 was the first '3D' Mario and it also utilised the analogue stick which wasn't a thing until then, most games were still effectively using D-Pads for navigating 3D spaces so you still only had 8 directions where Mario64 was far more linear in control. Short of some form of augmented reality Mario everything else is sort of an evolution of Mario64. I would still argue games like Super Mario 3D World and the Galaxy titles are far better games though.
As to the OPs question; not really possible to compare, Mario64 was the first '3D' Mario and it also utilised the analogue stick which wasn't a thing until then, most games were still effectively using D-Pads for navigating 3D spaces so you still only had 8 directions where Mario64 was far more linear in control. Short of some form of augmented reality Mario everything else is sort of an evolution of Mario64. I would still argue games like Super Mario 3D World and the Galaxy titles are far better games though.
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Neff
Member
Nah. It's hard to convey just how big a deal Super Mario 64 was unless you were there at the time. I can't foresee technology allowing for a similar advance any time soon.
In fairness, Rescue Mission is custom-made for VR and a lot of the ways it works simply wouldn't be possible without it.
Otherwise, I think you're right. As brilliant as Rescue Mission is (and it is brilliant), there's just no comparison. Super Mario 64 was an event horizon moment. You were watching a paradigm shift in the gaming zeitgeist happening before your very eyes, and every 3D game going forward was influenced by it to some degree. If you were a gamer, at the very least you wanted to try it immediately upon seeing it.
Rescue Mission is a very competent and imaginative platformer, and it makes use of VR in unique, fun ways, but it's largely based on established design rules. SM64 wrote its own rules, and for everyone else too.
In fairness, Rescue Mission is custom-made for VR and a lot of the ways it works simply wouldn't be possible without it.
Otherwise, I think you're right. As brilliant as Rescue Mission is (and it is brilliant), there's just no comparison. Super Mario 64 was an event horizon moment. You were watching a paradigm shift in the gaming zeitgeist happening before your very eyes, and every 3D game going forward was influenced by it to some degree. If you were a gamer, at the very least you wanted to try it immediately upon seeing it.
Rescue Mission is a very competent and imaginative platformer, and it makes use of VR in unique, fun ways, but it's largely based on established design rules. SM64 wrote its own rules, and for everyone else too.
BusierDonkey
Member
Nintendo never missed the boat, they were there before the boat even showed up, then got hit by the boat because their eyes were bleeding.
Nintendo had the only VR-Only console ever made, which means they also had the best VR-Only console ever made.
Spukc
always chasing the next thrill
It’s not about being the first.Nintendo never missed the boat, they were there before the boat even showed up, then got hit by the boat because their eyes were bleeding.
Nintendo had the only VR-Only console ever made, which means they also had the best VR-Only console ever made.
It’s about coming at the right time.
VB was way too early. And it showed.
Neff
Member
One could argue that contemporary VR, as good as it is, has come before its time due to the fact that it's failed to capture mainstream audience attention.
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Codes 208
Member
Bowsers Fury was really good but it also felt like an extension to Odyssey but with 3D world’s mechanics
I Love Rock 'n' Roll
Member
This. Nintendo should have done this game.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Nope. That game was a revolution, it really can't happen that way again. People saying Odyssey, lol. That game was super safe, just with the hat mechanic added. Bowser's Fury was a bigger "leap" with its open world etc (and a better game), but still nothing like the brand new experience SM64 was at the time. If you weren't there in '96-'97 you simply cannot understand how mind-blowing it was seeing and playing that game for the first time. Nothing has ever felt "new" in the same way to me ever since, except maybe VR.
Maybe if Nintendo decides to go all in on VR and revolutionizes how VR platformers should be done.
Maybe if Nintendo decides to go all in on VR and revolutionizes how VR platformers should be done.
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carlosrox
Banned
4k 60, open like Bowser's Fury with an endless amount of stuff to do and shit just everywhere. Bombard the player with Mario stuff just everywhere.
Create a gigantic seamless Mario World. Mario needs to be able to interact with many things in many ways.
Bowser's Fury was a step in the right direction.
Create a gigantic seamless Mario World. Mario needs to be able to interact with many things in many ways.
Bowser's Fury was a step in the right direction.
Marcus Aurelius
Banned
Mario 64 was never special, it seemed that way because of 2D to 3D transition. Play it now and it's just a mediocre platformer.
No, you would need a new form of visuals for that to happen. Vr although nice is just the tv screen slapped onto your face. I think the next most interesting thing Nintendo could get into would those 3d holographic games that would allow you to see the whole field while you play.
GametimeUK
Member
Agree massively with the Astro Bot comments. I believe Astro Bot has done the most interesting things in a 3D platformer since Mario 64.
One of the more interesting connections I can link between the two games is Astro Bot physically places you in the game space as N64's version of Lakitu with the camera controls. It opened up the door for a bunch of innovation and interactivity. The level with the beanstalk amazed me, but I'm being vague here as not to spoil it for anyone who hasn't played.
One of the more interesting connections I can link between the two games is Astro Bot physically places you in the game space as N64's version of Lakitu with the camera controls. It opened up the door for a bunch of innovation and interactivity. The level with the beanstalk amazed me, but I'm being vague here as not to spoil it for anyone who hasn't played.
Kokoloko85
Member
When they do a full on Mario VR / AR or nintendo mind controlling mario Game lol.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Nintendo never missed the boat, they were there before the boat even showed up, then got hit by the boat because their eyes were bleeding.
Nintendo had the only VR-Only console ever made, which means they also had the best VR-Only console ever made.
VB really wasn't VR, it was just stereoscopic Game Boy graphics strapped to your face. You need a lot more than that for something to actually be VR.
carlosrox
Banned
You're trying too hard.
Kokoloko85
Member
Thats the whole point. It was special because it was the first to do 3D right. Like how doom was one of the 1st mainstream 1st person shooters. Go and play it now and its nothing special
Karmic Raze
Member
It would take something monumental to have the same groundbreaking effect that Mario 64 did. It was revolutionary and had to be experienced when it first came onto the scene to truly appreciate what it did to push the gaming industry to greater heights.
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kiphalfton
Member
Mario Odyssey had too many useless moons to collect. Some of the moons felt like the devs had a brain-dead intern place them in the game (i.e. it was totally inspired and made no sense).
Level design was alright, but not super memorable. Art style sucked in some of the levels.
Best part of it was the gameplay obviously.
It was a good effort, but not groundbreaking.
Im thinking we probably won't see another Mario game of this scale for a LONG time.
Level design was alright, but not super memorable. Art style sucked in some of the levels.
Best part of it was the gameplay obviously.
It was a good effort, but not groundbreaking.
Im thinking we probably won't see another Mario game of this scale for a LONG time.
Twinguistics
Member
Not really. They are great games, fantastic games even but not 'ground breaking'.Every gen had a groundbreaking Mario.
Ground breaking doesn't just mean great.
To answer the question, sure they can. They have to 'break new ground' in a gameplay or technological sense.
For example, an AR Mario where he's somehow running around your living room and it works. That would be ground breaking if it actually worked well and was a fun experience.
breakfuss
Member
Guess you just had to be there? Nothing has come close to blowing my mind the way 64 did.