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[JackMcGunns]

Bungie?

I blame MS. They have no idea what they're doing as always.

Correction.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Sosokrates]

At the time Xbox were very controlling over there developers.

 

[Ansphn]

Have you seen Halo infinite? Bungie is dead under the Xbox umbrella.

 

[Max_Po]

The only time Halo was fun was when Bungie was incharge. I never cared about FPS... but

Halo 1, Halo 2, 3 Reach ODST... it was an exciting event when they released Halo ......

 

[Spitfire098]

It's wild to me that the destiny subreddit is larger than halo. Not bad for a halo rip off

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Oh sweet naive child.

 

[Kimahri]

Destiny is basically just Halo with a shitty art style.

 

[Varteras]

Reasons. What more do you need?

 

[Hendrick's]

I would rank this up there with TV, TV, TV and Kinect as one of Xboxes biggest blunders. I'm sure Phil who is a huge Destiny fan, is salty about it.

 

[German Hops]

Bungie didn't receive any kickbacks from Game Fuel sales.
Jason Jones didn't like that and decided to part ways with MS.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

They are at the best possible place for their future IP's and TV adoption with the elites in both industries.

 

[Crayon]

I think they wanted to make bags and bags of money.

 

[HoofHearted]

Seems to be working out great.. awesome gameplay mechanics never before seen...

 

[cinnamonandgravy]

considering MS's history with developers/studios, the only reason a studio would agree to join MS is so its mgmt can enjoy an early retirement.

guess they decided they still wanted to make games after all.

 

[skneogaf]

Exactly what I wrote!

which words do you require help with?

 

[NickFire]

I thought they wanted more creative control at the time they left. I still do, but in some respects I think they abandoned that ideal when GaaS became so profitable.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Destiny is basically just Halo with a shitty art style.

That's an achievement considering Halo's art style isn't that great either.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Money.

Part of MS.

Big partnership with Activision.

Now part of Sony.

A total mercenary company who’ll sell out to the highest bidder.

 

[Spukc]

And Destiny was their idea of creativity?

Bruv destiny is halo 2.0

 

[01011001]

They wanted creative freedom, the end.

creative freedom to create Halo with worse Leveldesign, brain-dead grinding and spongy enemies... I mean... if that's what they wanted

 

[Neo_game]

Destiny is basically just Halo with a shitty art style.

Halo has good art style ? Halo engine needs a serious overhaul. It looks and performs average at best.

At least Destiny with the patch runs native 4K 60fps on console and also has a good 120fps mode.

 

[Iced Arcade]

Microsoft formed what they thought was a super duper mega center to control all things Halo (343i) and thought is was pointless to hang on to Bungie, who wanted independence. so they cut them free.


that timeframe for xbox was a weird time.

 

[01011001]

Halo has good art style ? Halo engine needs a serious overhaul. It looks and performs average at best.

At least Destiny with the patch runs native 4K 60fps on console and also has a good 120fps mode.

Destiny literally runs on a modified Halo Reach engine. which Halo also does these days

 

[Kimahri]

Halo has good art style ? Halo engine needs a serious overhaul. It looks and performs average at best.

At least Destiny with the patch runs native 4K 60fps on console and also has a good 120fps mode.

Since when did engine, 4K, 60fps and 120fps have anything to do with art style?

I'm not convinced you know what art is.

 

[Three]

so where is the creativity?

edit: I MEAN...they did try to dumb down and casualise D2 but people got pissed and forced them to go back to the grindfest of D1.

They left and created something new 8yrs ago.

What do you mean where is the creativity?

 

[Neo_game]

Since when did engine, 4K, 60fps and 120fps have anything to do with art style?

I'm not convinced you know what art is.

That is for performance. Everyone thought since Halo looks the way it does at least it will perform better but that was also not the case. lol.

 

[Kimahri]

That is for performance. Everyone thought since Halo looks the way it does at least it will perform better but that was also not the case. lol.

How is that relevant to the art style?

You and I, my friend, we're not having the same conversation.

 

[CamHostage]

People don’t understand that “old” Microsoft was brutal, so many of the upper management were actively stabbing as many people in the back as possible just to ascend the corporate ladder.

There were reports that despite having one of the best selling series of all time Microsoft would randomly restrict Bungie. They would want to throw a fan event and Microsoft would just kill it outright and say it was too expensive and a bunch of other petty shit.

The "old" Microsoft was also making deals with Halo as if it owned the place (which, it did, but...) and Bungie didn't like that.

Halo Wars wasn't Bungie's idea and they were upset that a different studio was handling their baby (even though the final game was good), Ensemble too was making an MMO that probably wasn't asked for, then there was the Halo movie and Halo Chronicles... MS even was shall we say "slow to say no" to those with external deals for Microsoft Game Studios who assumed Halo was on the table, thus Halo Gizmondo and Halo DS and some other projects that never came to light.

Even though Bungie was shifting away from Halo with stuff like Reach (which eventually got "Halo Reach" tagged on the label,) they were upset that MS wasn't treating Halo as hallowed ground; MS meanwhile was probably frustrated that Bungie was being so snobby about the company's biggest cash cow. So the relationship was in a difficult time of transition anyway post-Halo 3 (even though Bungie did 2 more Halo games,) and eventually it was easier to part ways and let MS do whatever it wanted to with Master Chief while Bungie made its own thing with nobody ever having the power to co-opt it no matter who owned the company.

 

[Neo_game]

How is that relevant to the art style?

You and I, my friend, we're not having the same conversation.

It has to do with their gfx engine the game uses

 

[CamHostage]

I don’t get Bungie at all. From MS to independent, then tied to Activision, only to pay to become independent. And now bought by Sony. I think Bungie is Bipolar.

Activision (and now Sony) are the publishers for Bungie products in these relationships, but they do not produce or manage the product. Bungie calls the shots.

Activision couldn't for example use the Destiny characters in whatever mascot kart racer or Smash clone it put out (not that they would.) It couldn't tell Bungie to make other Destiny products besides FPSes (though maybe that would have been smart) or to farm out to external studios for more releases quicker. It couldn't do much more than put out the product and take its share of the money. Supposedly Activision raised the question, "Hey, you were supposed to make a new Destiny game every other year when we made that deal, it's been almost a decade and we're still only at #2, so could you maybe...", and Bungie responded with something to the effect of, "Fuck off, we're leaving and we're taking Destiny with us, good day." (OK, it probably wasn't that vehement a response. But Activision didn't have the power to take command of the product line when the franchise wasn't going the way Activision usually mined its brands, their main options of recourse was to pressure Bungie for more or to cut Bungie and commit those marketing resources to other brands; they seemingly would not have had the ability contractually to make an endrun around Bungie and manage the Destiny product line itself, despite that they "owned" the company. And same more or less for Sony.)

 

[Kimahri]

It has to do with their gfx engine the game uses

Which has nothing to do with art style

I'm talking about what the artists do. You know, the ones with paint brushes and color wheel fetishes.

You're talking about what programmers do. You know, the ones with "if true then" fetishes.

 

[Dthomp]

For the same reason they left Activision, and the same reason they'll leave Sony. The grass is always greener to be a "small indie" studio, right up until the next brinks truck pulls up.

 

[Roxkis_ii]

creative freedom to create Halo with worse Leveldesign, brain-dead grinding and spongy enemies... I mean... if that's what they wanted

Sad they left huh?

 

[DeaDPo0L84]

I mean, I get it, Microsoft wanted to continue Bungie to make Halo and Bungie wanted to pursuit new projects, which was destiny.

OP nails it.

 

[//DEVIL//]

So we can get 343Idiots ....

 

[FUBARx89]

No, give it 3 years, when the leaderships employment contracts that guarantee creative/publishing control run out.

Then they'll leave the company and start their own... sometime after that.... probably with a hiatus in between if Sony negotiated a non-compete.

Bookmark this post.

Has the first part ever been said about?

Tbf, most the big names in Bungie left ages ago, it's not the same Bungie everyone loved in the xbox days. Think really only Jason Jones is the biggest name there now (?)

Don't get me wrong by the way, I do like Destiny and Halo, but it's definitely not the same company anymore.

 

[bentanchorbolt]

This was around when they took Rare and had them make Kinect game shovelware. They turned what was one of the most renowned studios at the time and turned them into a joke.

This is such a bad take. David Doak, Steve Ellis, Karl Hilton, Graeme Norgate, Lee Ray and James Cunliffe, all left Rare in 1999 to create Free Radical Design, a full 3 years before MS bought Rare. The Rare that MS purchased was not the same Rare that made classics such as the DKC series, Goldeneye, or Perfect Dark.

MS gets a lot of shit for mismanaging studios but its revisionist history when people say they ruined Rare.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Has the first part ever been said about?

Tbf, most the big names in Bungie left ages ago, it's not the same Bungie everyone loved in the xbox days. Think really only Jason Jones is the biggest name there now (?)

Don't get me wrong by the way, I do like Destiny and Halo, but it's definitely not the same company anymore.

What isn't known is that they have employment contracts for important people, they have to stay for 3 years IIRC or break the contract.

Wasn't isn't known is how contractually obligated the "creative freedom / publishing control" is. Reading between the lines IMO, it IS contractual, but limited by time, and/or a specific set of games that Sony agree to let Bungie control. There were interesting things like Sony announcing Bungie is keeping it's board of directors... Bungie making it known they are maintaining "full creative control", and that Bungie will keep publishing on Xbox..

I find it hard to believe Bungie would say those things unless there was some guarantee by Sony in writing that they actually will maintain control... I find it odd that Bungie still has a board of directors, etc.

Leaders of a company maintaining control after a purchase is not unheard of.. you want to keep them around, and so you want them to sign employment contracts.. how do you get a rich guy who you just gave 100+ million to to keep working for you? Let him have control for a time being.

There was lots of speculation that's what happened with Instagram for instance.. the 2 owners insisted Instagram was not merging with Facebook in any way, and the company did actually maintain independence.. right up until.. they didn't, and both company founders quit.

There are likely contingencies where Sony can "break" any contract either way, as can the people on employment contracts as well though.

 

[remember_spinal]

Sad they left huh?

 

[Salty Popsicle]

They are at the best possible place for their future IP's and TV adoption with the elites in both industries.

That's strange considering Sony has no control over any of Bungie's IP.

 

[casablanca]

Money.

Part of MS.

Big partnership with Activision.

Now part of Sony.

A total mercenary company who’ll sell out to the highest bidder.

Ridiculous statement.
Do you work for the lowest bidder ?
Only console warriors work for free.
They created two of the biggest and most profitable franchise on the industry and they should be loyal to some company forever ?
Freedom in creativity, partners and projects is one of the biggest if not the biggest luxury in the professional world.

 

[Ogbert]

I’ll say it again for the 100th time.

I genuinely believe MS letting Bungie go was the single most catastrophic decision they made. Halo totally and utterly defined everything about Xbox. If Destiny remained as an Xbox exclusive, I would have no choice but to buy their console.

 

[IntentionalPun]

That's strange considering Sony has no control over any of Bungie's IP.

Give it a few years; it's doubtful any control Bungie maintained is indefinite.

Chances are, reading between the lines.. it's for Destiny 2 + whatever other game(s) Bungie had already started developing.

Anything after that, it's doubtful Bungie would maintain control over.

It's why I think the control is a contingency of their employee retention contracts.. there's pretty much no chance Sony releases anything on Xbox w/o such a contract in place, nor will they do so when the contracts are up (if I'm correct about this being contractual.)

That same contract I think exists also likely codified the "partnership" between Bungie/Playstation to share knowledge/tech concerning GAAS games, hence why Bungie talks about it like it was an agreement between 2 companies even though Sony bought them. The leaders will eventually bail once their "babys" are done being made.

 

[Ogbert]

They are at the best possible place for their future IP's and TV adoption with the elites in both industries.

No one.

And I mean no one.

Is going to watch Destiny the TV show.

 

[Salty Popsicle]

Give it a few years; it's doubtful any control Bungie maintained is indefinite.

Chances are, reading between the lines.. it's for Destiny 2 + whatever other game(s) Bungie had already started developing.

Anything after that, it's doubtful Bungie would maintain control over.

It's why I think the control is a contingency of their employee retention contracts.. there's pretty much no chance Sony releases anything on Xbox w/o such a contract in place, nor will they do so when the contracts are up (if I'm correct about this being contractual.)

That same contract I think exists also likely codified the "partnership" between Bungie/Playstation to share knowledge/tech concerning GAAS games, hence why Bungie talks about it like it was an agreement between 2 companies even though Sony bought them. The leaders will eventually bail once their "babys" are done being made.

If Activision couldn't pry the Destiny IP away from Bungie when it was topping charts and talked about every week, then Sony has no chance.

 

[Kokoloko85]

Halo and Destiny are nothing alike. It doesn't feel similar at all, Destiny feels like call of duty.

Destint 1 gunplay feels more like Halo then COD. Not sure about D2

 

[IntentionalPun]

If Activision couldn't pry the Destiny IP away from Bungie when it was topping charts and talked about every week, then Sony has no chance.

Activision never owned Bungie, Sony does.

Bungie leadership appears to have negotiated some control, but it is incredibly unlikely it's anything indefinite. Sony owning them, is indefinite lol

 

[Bo_Hazem]

That's strange considering Sony has no control over any of Bungie's IP.

clowniest. take. ever.

No one.

And I mean no one.

Is going to watch Destiny the TV show.

You are overestimating your opinion.

 

[fermcr]

Not even Bungie know what they actually want.
They claimed they were fed up doing the same thing: Halo franchise... and now they stuck doing the same thing indefinitely: Destiny.

People at Bungie need therapy.

 

[wipeout364]

You would have left too if Steve “sweat stains” Ballmer and Don “Dumbass” Mattrick were your bosses.