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[Deleted member 80556]

Damn. Yoshida was probably just saying the obvious: If the Wii U succeeds, then that means developers (that are probably not just first-party) will start to look for the same tech in other places other than Nintendo's console, and that would be the PSV/PS3 interconnectivity.

Why do people have to see it the wrong way always?

 

[Jacobi]

The funny Thing is the PS3 and Vita combination can do everything the wiiu does, and it Even offers more possibilities (Touch pad).

 

[Deleted member 80556]

The funny Thing is the PS3 and Vita combination can do everything the wiiu does, and it Even offers more possibilities (Touch pad).

I'm pretty sure the Wii U controller screen is a touch pad.

 

[Terrordactyl]

Is remote play's lagginess a limitation of PSP or a limitation of PS3 though?

It may be something Sony has already aimed to solve with Vita

Its a limitation of streaming over a network vs WiiU being specifically designed to stream directly from console to controller in the same room.

 

[Chuck Norris]

I'm pretty sure the Wii U controller screen is a touch pad.

Vita has multitouch and back touch, which is what he meant

 

[Ploid 3.0]

I'll be happy with remote play 2 on PS4 with PSV. Play in my back yard, every game supported (thanks to dual analog and PS4 sku TS, whatever they call that stuff). Make it happen sony, also make upload replays to youtube in every game as well. Screen shots also.

 

[Oppo]

Its a limitation of streaming over a network vs WiiU being specifically designed to stream directly from console to controller in the same room.

Actually, it's a limitation of 802.11b WiFi, and the video encoding process mostly. The Remote Play stuff was designed to do exactly the same thing you describe - stream directly from console to controller. You even connect your PSP to the PS3 directly as WiFi host.

It's laggy 'cause of the wifi speed, and 'cause it's 4 years old. The Wii U is using some variant of wireless video, it's a totally different thing, doesn't travel over a network protocol, it's more akin to the usb RF dongle that comes with most wireless mice (but for HD video).

Remote Play is not really a factor for this discussion other than as a data point; as said before, it would be a client/slave situation, for PS3-Vita dual screens. I've no doubt Remote Play will be in Vita for passive media streaming but I would guess devs would make specific apps to run on both systems to enable this sort of functionality.

Not really. I think PS3/Vita can be good for item management purposes, etc. But for some real action, there's bound to be latency issues, which presumably won't be there for Wii U.

Eh, not really. Why do people keep insisting on this without backing it up.

 

[fresquito]

The funny Thing is the PS3 and Vita combination can do everything the wiiu does, and it Even offers more possibilities (Touch pad).

Not really. I think PS3/Vita can be good for item management purposes, etc. But for some real action, there's bound to be latency issues, which presumably won't be there for Wii U.

That said, I don't think many devs will go beyond the gimmick use. Be it the Wii U or the PS3/Vita.

 

[left_senseless]

I wonder how much additional cost developers would incur by implementing these features to the ps3/vita combo after they have all the ground work done with the WiiU... streaming between the two systems would probably be ineffective but communications between the two systems running their own software does seem possible. the vita has a camera that could track the Move as well. I imagine developers could do some pretty crazy things with all three pieces of technology communicating and functioning together. I know it is unlikely because of the ultra limited user base, but think of the possibilities and accuracy with both cameras being capable of tracking the move from different angles of the playing field!

 

[Vinci]

If Sony wants to do the same, that's fine - but I'd really like to see them bring something distinct into the gaming space. It just seems like they don't really innovate in and of themselves, but always as a result of another company proving that something is or is not a good, marketable idea.

Outside of its financial policies, Sony is actually a very conservative company. I love many of the games the company produces, but... I don't know... I'd like to see them really step outside their comfort zone more often.

EDIT: And, people, the Vita + PS3 combination is a damn pipedream. Developers aren't going to design games around a combination of systems unless they're Sony 1st parties - and even that will be minimal.

 

[Shai-Tan]

Its a limitation of streaming over a network vs WiiU being specifically designed to stream directly from console to controller in the same room.

well psp is wireless b which is just terrible. the ps3 is wireless g which is a bit better but they missed an opportunity to move to wireless n in the ps3 slim. g has too many dropouts for it not to screw up all the time and the vita screen is too high res for it not to require some kind of compression to push video which the ps3 doesn't have resources for so video is a no go but some kind of software solution would be ok for integrating the touch screen with special software running on the vita. i.e. seamlessly moving a game between screens would not work but it's possible to integrate vita as a secondary control scheme

 

[Plinko]

Eh, not really. Why do people keep insisting on this without backing it up.

Because Sony didn't announce a lag-free remote play as part of Vita and the PS3 hasn't changed at all? Why do you believe it will be different than current remote play without any indication otherwise from Sony?

Look--remote play isn't changing for Vita. The PS3 is still the system that has to connect to the Vita. PS4 might be different, but that's not coming for years.

Or are you referring to the Wii U having no lag? If so, video clearly shows no lag as the system itself is specifically designed for it.

 

[jaypah]

See, Sony always has the clothes in their closet. That's not the problem. The problem is they don't know how to SWAG it out properly. Then when Nintendo hit's King of Diamonds on Monday night and makes $5,000 look like $50, you know, making it monsoon on them hoes Sony be all like, "man, I had that 'fit on deck but I never thought to put it together like that. DAMN....... they SWAGGED OUT IN THIS BITCH!". Then Nintendo buys out the bar and brings half of the show floor to V.I.P. And Sony is like, " iight, next week watch how I dip through this bitch. Gucci down, ya heard me?"

Sony just need a lil jump-start to their SWAG sometimes. Happens to everybody, Nintendo and MS too. It's just that right now....... RIGHT NOW? NINTENDO: SWAG ON INFINITY

 

[Oppo]

Because Sony didn't announce a lag-free remote play as part Vita and the PS3 hasn't changed at all? Why do you believe it will be lag free without any indication from Sony?

2 reasons -

1, the one everyone keeps ignoring, which is that it would not use Remote Play, it would be a client app, like they've demo'd in the past, and

2, because we know the spec. It has 802.11n and a 4-core mobile proc. The PS3 has no issue streaming and encoding this stuff, believe me, that's an area where the Cell shines, and it has 802.11g, so there's no reason to believe it can't.

If you believe that you can do any sort of LAN gaming over WiFi G at all then you have to believe this is possible.

 

[TAS]

And, people, the Vita + PS3 combination is a damn pipedream. Developers aren't going to design games around a combination of systems unless they're Sony 1st parties - and even that will be minimal.

LOL..seriously. That setup would run $500+ dollars. Or..Sony rips off Nintendo U controller with their next Dual Shock Controller. In fact..I'm calling it right now.

 

[Callibretto]

best solution is no video streaming involved, PS3 and Vita both run their own software with their own hardware and have them communicating with Wifi or bluetooth. this way, it even fix Wii-U limitation of only 1 tablet per console.

the problem is how will PS3 recognize Vita location in the room as Wii-U video also include AR stuff not just from the tablet, but also from the console (TV). I assume this is how stuff like catching a ball in the baseball video and throwing virtual shuriken from the tablet to the screen, the console will have to know where the tablet is located in 3d to accurately shoot to the screen.

 

[Stephen Colbert]

Mm.

 

[Gafapastismo]

No, make up some ideas for yourself.

WTF Sony? All you do is follow Nintendo these days. The only time you lead the industry is when graphics mattered. Now graphics have hit a spot where the lastest graphics are not that important and you don't know what to do with yourself. So you resort to copying. lol

Some weeks ago, somebody said that Sony copied again with Smart AR on PSVita, because in 3DS there is AR games

LoL

 

[Azure Dream]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=aRvwEa6_GKc

Nintendo showed their sytem playing Go just like that.

Multi-touch? Voodoo!

Not really. I think PS3/Vita can be good for item management purposes, etc. But for some real action, there's bound to be latency issues, which presumably won't be there for Wii U.

I understand there are more likely to be slight additional latency concerns with the Vita processing, possibly the local Wi-Fi or Bluetooth transfer and such, but Nintendo's implementation will probably have a few issues crop up outside of their controlled settings as well. Plus they are heavily bound by range as it currently stands.

One thing that bugs me is that with both forward and back-facing cameras, the Vita is an even better fit for augmented reality content than the Wii U, which isn't a big deal, but seems like a missed opportunity for slapping in a relatively cheap camera. I know, pennies adds up to millions, but if they're already throwing in everything in the world as it is...

 

[Jimrpg]

For Vita to take off as another controller for the PS3, it needs to be a part of the console. It is not. It is merely an addon, an expensive one. That is why it won't take off, and developer support will be minimal.

Completely disagree.

All the PS3+Vita stuff can be optional.

For example say GT5....

If people have just dual shocks - they have to take it in turns to select the cars, and colours and options and tuning.

If each player had a vita then you can select your car and options on the Vita screen... all at the same time... you would get a mini track on your screen.... hell if you plug in a set of earphones... you can get instructions or lap times or something relating to your race and who's behind u, how far, all the telemetry stuff etc.

regardless - the GT5 game would only send over a small program file of say 1 gig to do these things and link with the main game.

having your own screen would be huge for multiplayer gaming to 'do your own thing' while everyone still plays the main game. thats what its all about... im surprised and a little curious this is not really the route Nintendo is thinking for the Wii U - so we'll have to wait and see.

 

[Lord Error]

Frankly, I consider the cross play feature of Wipeout 2048 more impressive and more useful than just copying the Wii U functionality, so they should probably pursue more of that kind of stuff. It's also something Wii U cannot do without visual penalty, as it would have to render game twice, as there's no processing power in the tablet.

Nintendo showed their sytem playing Go just like that.

It wasn't even like that. Players had to take turns as there's no multitouch.

 

[Londa]

Some weeks ago, somebody said that Sony copied again with Smart AR on PSVita, because in 3DS there is AR games

LoL

um so? I'm talking about how Sony said they will be testing ideas from Wii U. "Inspiring" the PS Vita.

 

[Oppo]

the problem is how will PS3 recognize Vita location in the room as Wii-U video also include AR stuff not just from the tablet, but also from the console (TV). I assume this is how stuff like catching a ball in the baseball video and throwing virtual shuriken from the tablet to the screen, the console will have to know where the tablet is located in 3d to accurately shoot to the screen.

That's a good point - is the Wii U doing any sort of tracking for this, or is it all MEMs and accelerometers? Like does that tablet thing use the sensor bar or something?

On the point of Vita being a separate thing - of course it's never going to be a main feature, it will never have the sort of penetration that the Wii U, of course! But if I was a 3rd party dev like Ubi or EA, working on a multiplatform game, and I had done all this work to support 2nd screen functionality for my Wii U title, why not re-use that work for some optional PSV-PS3 connectivity? It's definitely possible. No idea if it'll play out that way but as it stands I don't see a technical reason why not.

 

[Callibretto]

Completely disagree.

All the PS3+Vita stuff can be optional.

For example say GT5....

If people have just dual shocks - they have to take it in turns to select the cars, and colours and options and tuning.

If each player had a vita then you can select your car and options on the Vita screen... all at the same time... you would get a mini track on your screen.... hell if you plug in a set of earphones... you can get instructions or lap times or something relating to your race and who's behind u, how far, all the telemetry stuff etc.

regardless - the GT5 game would only send over a small program file of say 1 gig to do these things and link with the main game.

having your own screen would be huge for multiplayer gaming to 'do your own thing' while everyone still plays the main game. thats what its all about... im surprised and a little curious this is not really the route Nintendo is thinking for the Wii U - so we'll have to wait and see.

I like the idea, but your example of GT5 is not very practical imo. simply because you're not gonna look down to your Vita to see track and time while you're playing the game and look at your TV.

better example would be LBP and Mod Nation Racers, hook up Vita to get access of Vita creation tools with touchscreen and everything to make levels in PS3 LBP.

 

[gofreak]

best solution is no video streaming involved, PS3 and Vita both run their own software with their own hardware and have them communicating with Wifi or bluetooth. this way, it even fix Wii-U limitation of only 1 tablet per console.

the problem is how will PS3 recognize Vita location in the room as Wii-U video also include AR stuff not just from the tablet, but also from the console (TV). I assume this is how stuff like catching a ball in the baseball video and throwing virtual shuriken from the tablet to the screen, the console will have to know where the tablet is located in 3d to accurately shoot to the screen.

I was wondering how that worked...have they explained? There seems to be missing piece of the puzzle there. There's no camera on the back of the controller, no apparent sensor connected to the box, looking from the TV's perspective.

In terms of Vita, it could get a lock on the TV's position using the back-camera I guess. Then use internal sensors.

If Sony wanted devs to experiment with this they'd have to provide a 'PS3 play' framework that exposed these kinds of things easily. Some stuff could be trivial enough without much help from Sony - e.g. just pulling the HUD off the TV - but others could do with some groundwork from Sony to make realising ideas easy.

(IF sony saw this as worthwhile in the first place, of course)

 

[Callibretto]

I was wondering how that worked...have they explained? There seems to be missing piece of the puzzle there. There's no camera on the back of the controller, no apparent sensor connected to the box, looking from the TV's perspective.

In terms of Vita, it could get a lock on the TV's position using the back-camera I guess. Then use internal sensors.

If Sony wanted devs to experiment with this they'd have to provide a 'PS3 play' framework that exposed these kinds of things easily. Some stuff could be trivial enough without much help from Sony - e.g. just pulling the HUD off the TV - but others could do with some groundwork from Sony to make realising ideas easy.

(IF sony saw this as worthwhile in the first place, of course)

I assume it's the same way with Wiimote (and Motion plus maybe)? there's got to be a sensor bar there because Wiimote is still the default controller isn't it?

 

[Oppo]

Yeah, like... there's no camera in the back, correct? so how does it work?

 

[Cwarrior]

Too bad this will never be supported out side 1 or maybe even 2 games.

How many users will own a vita and ps3 plus a game that support the feature....not Many so devs have very little reason to support a feature only few can take advantage of.

Big difference between the two is, every wiiu comes with a controller while psvitas don't come with a ps3.

 

[Lan_97]

I was wondering how that worked...have they explained? There seems to be missing piece of the puzzle there. There's no camera on the back of the controller, no apparent sensor connected to the box, looking from the TV's perspective.

It's probably just gyroscope.

Unless I have missed something, I haven't seen anything that needed actual 3D positioning. Just face the screen and let the gyroscope do the rest.

 

[gofreak]

I assume it's the same way with Wiimote (and Motion plus maybe)? there's got to be a sensor bar there because Wiimote is still the default controller isn't it?

The new controller is the default one.

But that aside, even if you plug your sensor bar into the Wii U and have it atop the TV, what on the controller picks it up? There doesn't seem to be any camera or sensor on the back of the controller.

Think there's a missing puzzle piece here unless anyone has more insight (?)

It's probably just gyroscope.

Wouldn't work on its own for some of the concepts shown, like catching the ball from the TV or aiming at something on the TV using the tablet. It would have no idea where it is relative to what's on the screen with just a gyro.

Were any of those kinds of demos shown live?

 

[MetatronM]

I was noticing this last night how both Nintendo and Sony seemed to be on similar wavelengths about liberating their traditional console experiences from the TV to some degree. By contrast, Microsoft is going in the exact opposite direction, almost taking more and more disparate concepts and tying them irrevocably to the TV.

Very interesting distinction between the Japanese and Western console makers this E3.

 

[Callibretto]

Too bad this will never be supported out side 1 or maybe even 2 games.

How many users will own a vita and ps3 plus a game that support the feature....not Many so devs have very little reason to support a feature only few can take advantage off.

Big difference between the two is, every wiiu comes with a controller while psvitas don't come with a ps3.

it will only exist as bonus feature or part of cross platform connection if they ever make it. why do developers are pushing for cross platform play, save transfer, LBP and MNR content sharing etc. these things don't happen automatically, they have to code this to both PS3 version and Vita version. it's there to give incentive for us to buy both games.

if dual screen feature will ever happen for PS3-Vita, it will also be there as extra feature to give people incentive to buy both games instead of just 1.

 

[Lan_97]

Wouldn't work on its own for some of the concepts shown, like catching the ball from the TV or aiming at something on the TV using the tablet. It would have no idea where it is relative to what's on the screen with just a gyro.

You probably aren't actually aiming at specific points at the TV. You are facing the screen and the gyroscope does the rest to approximate. Just like Face Raiders on 3DS.

 

[Man]

The funny thing is that combination will be $200 more than WiiU and still not have all the functionality of the WiiU.

What functionality is that actually? Stylus?

 

[Tenks]

Wasn't the PSP already supposed to support features like that? I thought I remember reading back in the day a PSP could be used as a rear view mirror in GT5.

 

[Callibretto]

The new controller is the default one.

But that aside, even if you plug your sensor bar into the Wii U and have it atop the TV, what on the controller picks it up? There doesn't seem to be any camera or sensor on the back of the controller.

Think there's a missing puzzle piece here unless anyone has more insight (?)




Wouldn't work on its own for some of the concepts shown, like catching the ball from the TV or aiming at something on the TV using the tablet. It would have no idea where it is relative to what's on the screen with just a gyro.

Were any of those kinds of demos shown live?

the console can only connect to 1 tablet, how can it be the default controller? how will multiplayer games work?

 

[gofreak]

The funny thing is that combination will be $200 more than WiiU and still not have all the functionality of the WiiU.

For 60m+ PS3 owners it would be a cheaper option...

...of course though, the overlap in PS3 and Vita's audiences is not going to be comprehensive. But I think you would eventually be talking double-digit millions. There will be a fair degree of joint ownership.

Enough to justify much dev support? I dunno. Although I think it would be nice for Sony to make a framework available for it and then let devs decide. At the very least, with a Sony provided environment, you might get some PSN titles experimenting with, or the like. I think it comes down to whether Sony will find reasonably compelling use cases to motivate them to commit to it, and to ask devs to support it. It could be asking for a lot of juggling of different configurations (PS3, PS3+Move, PS3+Vita), so only a strong creative argument or low investment/risk will see this happen at all IMO.

 

[Dragon]

I'm pretty sure the Wii U controller screen is a touch pad.

Perhaps he meant that Vita is multi-touch while the Wii U controller is not.

 

[Oppo]

The funny thing is that combination will be $200 more than WiiU and still not have all the functionality of the WiiU.

Correct, it will have more - 2 cameras, multitouch, backpad, higher-rez OLED screen, real analog sticks. Oh and a quad-core proc. (does the Wii U tablet have a mic? I assume it does)

Anyways gofreak is right, it all depends on if Sony provides a good framework, and if 3rd party devs can re-use any Wii U work.

I have to admit it's a cool idea. Dead Space with inventory stuff on the pad, no pausing, you have to look down and do stuff...

 

[Graphics Horse]

The new controller is the default one.

But that aside, even if you plug your sensor bar into the Wii U and have it atop the TV, what on the controller picks it up? There doesn't seem to be any camera or sensor on the back of the controller.

Think there's a missing puzzle piece here unless anyone has more insight (?)

There is an I/R camera on the top edge, this is very much still built with a sensor bar in mind. Presumably it's mostly in there for TV to gyro calibration, but it should be able to be used as a pointer in its own right.

Little black rectangle:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTkCIJGTe_U&t=3m13s

Edit: There's a chance that could just be a simple I/R port actually, but I think it's going to need the camera to do what they've shown in Shield Pose.


In terms of Vita doing the same thing, I wonder if it could be calibrated so the rear camera simply detects the image coming from the TV and positions itself based on that?

 

[Oppo]

That makes sense, good eye graphics horse.

 

[onQ123]

I called this from the second they said the new wii would have a touch screen controller.

 

[UberTag]

My bet is that while Sony developers will experiment with Wii U cross-game application between the PS3 and PSVITA (especially for multiplatform titles which are on all 3 systems already) they won't get any traction due in large part to the fact that they'll expect Playstation owners to purchase two copies of the same game to take advantage of it.

In the long-term it won't really matter because Wii U ports won't find much of an audience with Western audiences due to online limitations (perceived or actual).

 

[Kevtones]

From the pioneers of the 'massively successful' Move...

 

[Dragon]

From the pioneers of the 'massively successful' Move...

And the PS1/PS2/PS3/PSP...seriously what's your point again? Other than being snarky it added nothing to the discussion.

 

[mentalfloss]

Didn't Sony already try something like Wii U with the PSP and PS3 ??

GT rear-view mirror comes to mind.

How come that didn't succeed?

 

[gofreak]

There is an I/R camera on the top edge, this is very much still built with a sensor bar in mind. Presumably it's mostly in there for TV to gyro calibration, but it should be able to be used as a pointer in its own right.

Little black rectangle:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTkCIJGTe_U&t=3m13s

When you're holding it up though and not toward the TV - as in many of the use cases - it won't be able to see the TV. It'll be pointing at the ceiling.

Looking at the concept video, there were bits where what was shown on the tablet wasn't lined up exactly with the TV (when you were ostensibly looking 'through' the tablet at the TV. E.g. here:

So maybe they're just not caring too much about accuracy...maybe it asks you at the start of the game to hold it up toward the TV, and then goes from there using the internal sensors, without caring too much about whether the tablet and TV are actually lined up right.

 

[Graphics Horse]

So maybe they're just not caring too much about accuracy...maybe it asks you at the start of the game to hold it up toward the TV, and then goes from there using the internal sensors, without caring too much about whether the tablet and TV are actually lined up right.

Yup, that's how Wii motion plus does it. It's probably not perfect unless there's an addition to the new sensor bar we don't know about.

 

[StickSoldier]

Could Vita actually stream PS3 games to it like the WiiU tablet does?

 

[Callibretto]

Could Vita actually stream PS3 games to it like the WiiU tablet does?

PSP can do that with remote play, but it's limited and laggy. if Sony want to do something similar to Vita, they have to do it some other way.