To touch on something posted in the OP,
I wouldn't consider female fighters having lower health a form of sexism. I'm assuming they have some other benefit to balance the lower health handicap. Male and female bodies are differently built, so if a game tries to apply that in terms of stats, I wouldn't have any objection.
The way the fighting game community appears to be somehow split on this incident makes an outsider like me view them as a community of people that are totally and completely socially inept. This has all been like one massive case of Aspergers.Very glad this topic got a separate thread. Original thread shouldn't be clogged with attempts of discussion on this topic.
As for the situation in question, i believe that nobody should be put in an environment where they feel offended or harassed. That isn't right. I believe everyone feels the same way.
However, it has never come to anyone's attention that people did feel offended. I won't speak like I am part of the FGC or know anything more than your average stream monster but even despite what is called juvenile and off-colour environment, everyone enjoyed it (best example i can think of is the newly created fgtv, which has homosexuals and people of many different ethnicities under one roof). They use slurs and other things which may be considered offensive, but they are all completely cool with it.
That is where the "you gotta have thick skin" stigma comes from; because a lot of who is in the community aren't very easily offended by it.
When you think about it, this may be the reason why the community is very small. So this should be an eye-opener as to how to expand the community as a whole, while creating a more appealing atmosphere for newcomers.
How is that done though? That isn't a very easy question to answer. Everyone has their own idea on what the community should be, but the fact of the matter is the community is all of it. The reason there is a defense is because there is this idea that the community becoming "mainstream" will slowly shun out other segments, leaving some that want to monopolize it. A simple example would be people wanting to get rid of the "yipes" and "rush hour" portion of the community, and push the "ultrachen" portion. The reasons also differ. Some want to see the community itself grow as a whole, others just want to monopolize it for personal gain. This is where the defensive attitude comes from.
What i think needs to be done is that people need to sit down and really think about what is the good and the bad with every aspect of the FGC. This occurrence obviously is an example of the bad. They should work to rectify it, and not just shun the persons responsible.
To touch on something posted in the OP,
I wouldn't consider female fighters having lower health a form of sexism. I'm assuming they have some other benefit to balance the lower health handicap. Male and female bodies are differently built, so if a game tries to apply that in terms of stats, I wouldn't have any objection.
To touch on something posted in the OP,
I wouldn't consider female fighters having lower health a form of sexism. I'm assuming they have some other benefit to balance the lower health handicap. Male and female bodies are differently built, so if a game tries to apply that in terms of stats, I wouldn't have any objection.
"Vagina tax" is an incredibly stupid argument. It is simply a balancing aspect, nothing more, nothing less. It affects male characters that have the same advantages that they do. (larger moveset/more options/more mobility/smaller hitbox/more combo and overall damage output)
The small female characters are among the most powerful in Street Fighter IV as well.
Want to speak on it? Ask Capcom to put in a female grappler with slow movement and a large body.
Not sure why they don't (oh wait i do: nobody liked or played Mika)
If they try that again and the char has 900 health, then there will be an argument to be made.
But for the most part it's a thinly veiled excuse to whine that their character shouldn't have weaknesses.
But that's another discussion for another thread.
makes for a wonderful trip through google image search!lol R Mika. Not exactly a point in SF's favor.
The irony about this is that the female body can generally deal with pain much bother than the male.
makes for a wonderful trip through google image search!
Stop it. You're going to create some kind of paradox.Yeah but pussies can take more punishment than balls and yet balls = courage, pussies = cowards.
Stop it. You're going to create some kind of paradox.
Yeah but pussies can take more punishment than balls and yet balls = courage, pussies = cowards.
The way the fighting game community appears to be somehow split on this incident makes an outsider like me view them as a community of people that are totally and completely socially inept. This has all been like one massive case of Aspergers.
In no way shape or form should this kind of thing be okay. it's discerning to me that people are rationalizing this in the context of some kind of FGC rule set. Just, what the fuck? Really?
Yet "men are stronger" is just as likely to be a result of social expectations etc etc. Boys grow up playing sports and opening jars, girls grow up playing with dolls and not doing math, etc etc. Of course the adult versions turn out differently.I've never understood that. Just the general men are stronger thing present in society I guess.
Yet "men are stronger" is just as likely to be a result of social expectations etc etc. Boys grow up playing sports and opening jars, girls grow up playing with dolls and not doing math, etc etc. Of course the adult versions turn out differently.
Aris was likely raised in an environment that nurtured sexism. The real tragedy here isn't that he's a dick but that he probably doesn't think he's wrong or that anyone thinks differently, and that when everything is said and done he'll still think sexism is perfectly acceptable as long as it's off-camera and nobody complains.
Hmm, well yes there's always that consideration. I seriously doubt he's some kind of evil dude. Just not very bright when it comes to interacting with females at it would seem. He's not mentally challenged though (as far as I know), you should be able to identify the difference between what is right and what is wrong. If he's currently incapable of that well then I think a very strong reaction against how he acted might make him grow as a person. Coddling this behavior should be the very last option here.The split, in my view, isn't about whether Aris was right or wrong. An overwhelming majority in the community don't seem to be too happy with Aris at the moment (though, working full time and being busy beyond that, maybe I just haven't had the time to investigate every nook and cranny). The split seems to be between people thinking Aris is just a straight up evil person, and others thinking of him more like a grandfather who's good at heart, but also kinda of socially tone deaf and casually uses the word "nigger" like it's nothing.
Is this discussion actually happening right now?If that was the case, men and women would be a lot closer at the olympic level then they are.
When societal expectations are cast off and you spend years and years of your life training to be the best at what you do, if there were no real differences between the sexes than we'd notice.
Is this discussion actually happening right now?
It is not.I guess it's not completely relevant... heh.
"He seems like a nice guy but he smells like shit" Hahah. Ohhh this thread is awesome.I met Aris two years ago at Super Arcade (before Watson). He seemed like a nice guy. I would question his hygiene before his sexism. Dude stinks. I remember my friend, after he lost a match against him in 3s, saying something along the lines of him smelling like cigarettes, weed, and a hooker.
Okay I added the hooker part, but the rest-- true story.
Probably, but that's also at the extremes of human conditioning, and very few olympic events involve co-ed brawling to say who can take more of a beating so this is all kinda moot.If that was the case, men and women would be a lot closer at the olympic level then they are.
When societal expectations are cast off and you spend years and years of your life training to be the best at what you do, if there were no real differences between the sexes than we'd notice.
The split, in my view, isn't about whether Aris was right or wrong. An overwhelming majority in the community don't seem to be too happy with Aris at the moment (though, working full time and being busy beyond that, maybe I just haven't had the time to investigate every nook and cranny). The split seems to be between people thinking Aris is just a straight up evil person, and others thinking of him more like a grandfather who's good at heart, but also kinda of socially tone deaf and casually uses the word "nigger" like it's nothing.
THIS!!!I think that until these articles came about, people were very very likely to mostly just say "Oh, Aris", wag their finger at him and then allow things to go back to normal because he has a ton of friends in the community and he's been there awhile.
I get that people are reluctant to censure him in any way because of their friendship, but I think that his behavior will pretty much always remain as it is until there are some consequences for his actions. If the community aids and abetts him then well, I honestly don't know what to say.
Yes.Would it be ok of they said kick her ass??
The split, in my view, isn't about whether Aris was right or wrong. An overwhelming majority in the community don't seem to be too happy with Aris at the moment (though, working full time and being busy beyond that, maybe I just haven't had the time to investigate every nook and cranny). The split seems to be between people thinking Aris is just a straight up evil person, and others thinking of him more like a grandfather who's good at heart, but also kinda of socially tone deaf and casually uses the word "nigger" like it's nothing.
THIS!!!
Yes.
Except he was hurling out obscenities specific to her being a female. Complete fucking different. One is sexist, one is not.
Social agenda? If anyone actually views standing up for a woman being sexually harassed as some kind of social agenda then I don't want to fucking speak to them.It is completely right to inform and push for change in the FGC. But I can understand if it comes off as someone stopping by on their high horse ready to push their social agenda on others, and then leave when they get bored.
Hah well, sexism and harassment put together equals sexual harassment.The video I watched went beyond sexism into outright harassment. He said he was going to get close and smell her, while grilling her about her boyfriend. She repeatedly said not to, yet he ended up doing so anyway. That, coupled with the comments about her body and buying her a dress are more than enough to have you fired from most companies.
That and it's hard to accept criticism from people who have likely never had had any sort of interaction at all with the FGC if by chance they hadn't have stumbled on this incident and likely won't care at all when it's all said and done. And then those in the community that have spoken on it, have done so not as a means to attempt to improve the community, but rather to make it more ideal to profit from.
It is completely right to inform and push for change in the FGC. But I can understand if it comes off as someone stopping by on their high horse ready to push their social agenda on others, and then leave when they get bored.
I get laughed at and stuff myself at places, you just brush it off and don't take it to heart. Outplay them, or use it as a drive to get better. Some people are just assholes. Online they have 30534038430 feet between you and them, and the asshole factor increases. The second you let things people say to you effect the fun you have with anything is the moment you stop having fun.
Trash talk is a key component of the fighting game community. Sexism is not trash talk, as it is directed and specific. Sexism is not a key component of the fighting game community.I get laughed at and stuff myself at places, you just brush it off and don't take it to heart. Outplay them, or use it as a drive to get better. Some people are just assholes. Online they have 30534038430 feet between you and them, and the asshole factor increases. The second you let things people say to you effect the fun you have with anything is the moment you stop having fun.
Fucking exactly. I have friends that are girls active in the gaming community that kind of go with that same mentality. In all fairness, you almost have to react that way considering the people you are dealing with most of the time at some of these kind of events.It's one thing to trash talk, it's another thing to say all other sexes and races are inferior to yours. They're not just insulting her, they're insulting women. People like that treat all women the same way, and it's not okay. It's not something you should have to just shrug off.
Hah well, sexism and harassment put together equals sexual harassment.
But absolutely, it was incredibly aggressive in this case. That's what I'm finding fucked up about all of this as well.
It is completely right to inform and push for change in the FGC. But I can understand if it comes off as someone stopping by on their high horse ready to push their social agenda on others, and then leave when they get bored.
...but if it promotes someone inside the FGC to step and say "hey, this needs to stop once and for all" then it's worth it. We will see. It would be cool to see an actual improvement, and those who started the fuss come back and possibly write a followup on how the community improved.
It's not out of the realm of possibility. And I agree, it is despicable.Social agenda? If anyone actually views standing up for a woman being sexually harassed as some kind of social agenda then I don't want to fucking speak to them.
Obviously when dealing with an entire community there is more to it than that, there is no sense in trying to paint the entire community with broad strokes.I'm not sure if you're intent was to make the FGC come off as a super insecure and xenophobic group of people but, if you did, you just nailed it.
That and it's hard to accept criticism from people who have likely never had had any sort of interaction at all with the FGC if by chance they hadn't have stumbled on this incident and likely won't care at all when it's all said and done. And then those in the community that have spoken on it, have done so not as a means to attempt to improve the community, but rather to make it more ideal to profit from.
True. I was not trying to argue, as much as agree and expand on what you've said.
It may be hard to accept criticism from people outside the FGC's little pocket of the universe, but perspective from an outsider is almost always useful.
It's one thing to trash talk, it's another thing to say all other sexes and races are inferior to yours. They're not just insulting her, they're insulting women. People like that treat all women the same way, and it's not okay. It's not something you should have to just shrug off.
Excuse me if I'm misunderstanding something, because my first reaction to this post is that you're calling women crippled, which can't be right.
...uh, what? That's terrible
...uh, what? That's terribleInsulting a crippled person about being crippled and having no chance at the game is just trash talk? Oh okay.
Every time I read a comment that tries to make the argument of "she went along with it so this kind of treatment is okay" my life is tilted. How can you possibly say this? If someone is getting bullied and they try to laugh it off it's okay? Shit, kids in high school even defend their bullies sometimes to try and fit in. You have got to be kidding me. She says it wasn't okay, so it's not okay.
Insulting a crippled person about being crippled and having no chance at the game is just trash talk? Oh okay.
I really want the name of this thread changed to just "Aspergers Megamix 2012". Although, that's also really offensive.Yeah. Same here. I'm wondering if any of these people have problems functioning socially in the real world.