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[akilshohen]

I think they SHOULD charge for them, but for god sakes take them off the disc if people are finding ways to access them. Its the SMART thing to do...

If it wasn't on the disk, this whole topic wouldn't have been here. They should just have it day, or leave it off the disk.
This is getting ridiculous, and I don't see them pricing this sensibly. They would probably sell a lot more if there was a season pass, like WB did for Batman and MK; and then for substantial necessary content like characters treat it like AE. The Street Fighter IV series is the only fighting game DLC they did correct.

 

[Hellix]

So, will the PC version get the DLC characters?

 

[narcosis219]

If it wasn't on the disk, this whole topic wouldn't have been here. They should just have it day, or leave it off the disk.
This is getting ridiculous, and I don't see them pricing this sensibly. They would probably sell a lot more if there was a season pass, like WB did for Batman and MK; and then for substantial necessary content like characters treat it like AE. The Street Fighter IV series is the only fighting game DLC they did correct.

And it's sad that it's totally a non-issue.

It was planned to be DLC, so it would have either been a waste of bandwidth or have it ready to go so you don't have to download a 500 mb patch. I guess everyone would have been a lot happier downloading a big patch.

 

[Gokurakumaru]

Define incomplete?

Let's pretend the 12 don't exist. Oh wait, you're right, SFxT can't be played anymore.

Can I take SSFIV to my friend's house and play it? Yes. But I can't play AE2012. Same thing.

Game company wants to make money. Stop the presses!

Incomplete: You pay full retail price and have an out-of-date version that's missing characters a month after launch. To put this in perspective people bitched about having an outdated game a full 9 months after MvC3 launched, and justifiably so. But being out of date immediately? I'm not seeing $60 worth of value in that launch window.

Up until the 2012 patch you had the option to buy the most complete version of SFIV at retail, all on disc, all completely portable. You can't do that with MvC3. You can't do that with SFxT.

Consumers choose to exercise their right not to buy. Stop the presses!

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Never buy Capcom fighters day one. This game looks like crap with a terrible cast anyway, so I don't feel like I'm missing out.

 

[V_Arnold]

And it's sad that it's totally a non-issue.

It was planned to be DLC, so it would have either been a waste of bandwidth or have it ready to go so you don't have to download a 500 mb patch.

Yes, I really have a hard time understanding what is goiing on with some opinions regarding this.

I understand hating the DLC method OVERALL.
But asking DLC to be REMOVED from disk just so...just what?

Either hate all DLC and stop buying games that use this method of additional(!) optional content, or accept that the methods of distributing is different from company to company.

I personally do not care if it is on the disc or not. Hell, I prefer that it do be in on the disc, as it saves storage space on my 360 HDD, hehe I knew that the roster is 38+12 (or 38+12+potentially even more), and I am fine with it.

SFxT is amazing, the cast is already huge, more than half of that is totally new in a 2d environment, so I really do not understand why Capcom is in the wrong here in any way, shape or form.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

And it's sad that it's totally a non-issue.

It was planned to be DLC, so it would have either been a waste of bandwidth or have it ready to go so you don't have to download a 500 mb patch. I guess everyone would have been a lot happier downloading a big patch.

Sure why not, I feel like I'm downloading a patch each time I boot up UMVC3, and when I play ranked and finish a fight. So much unnecessary loading, checks, confirmations going on on boot and when you're spit out to the menu after a fight. I'm betting things don't get any better with SFxT.

 

[mclem]

It's Capcom, for putting this stuff on the disc. The "honest" consumer now gets to watch the "dishonest" consumer enjoy the content months ahead of time for free. That's not a good situation, and it's one that was very foreseeable.

If you're already seeing someone play a game without having the right to do so, why is it then *more* offensive to see that they're also using characters they don't have the right to do so?

 

[Papercuts]

If you're already seeing someone play a game without having the right to do so, why is it then *more* offensive to see that they're also using characters they don't have the right to do so?

Buying a game that breaks street date doesn't mean you don't have the right to play it. You paid the price of entry, store's fault.

 

[mclem]

No one pirated anything, people have been playing the game for days because they got it early. They simply went digging into the disc and unlocked the characters for themselves, there's literally no piracy here because nothings being stolen or copied.

It's infringing on the publisher's right to deny you access to that content. I'd be interested to see how a legal expert would regard that.

This whole on-disc DLC thing definitely is a grey area but I don't think it is actually illegal for people to do what they want with what they bought provided they have the know how.

Ask Geohot about that. It's by no means a fact I'm fond of, but I'm pretty sure it's covered by the DMCA.

 

[Papercuts]

Yes, I really have a hard time understanding what is goiing on with some opinions regarding this.

I understand hating the DLC method OVERALL.
But asking DLC to be REMOVED from disk just so...just what?

Either hate all DLC and stop buying games that use this method of additional(!) optional content, or accept that the methods of distributing is different from company to company.

I personally do not care if it is on the disc or not. Hell, I prefer that it do be in on the disc, as it saves storage space on my 360 HDD, hehe I knew that the roster is 38+12 (or 38+12+potentially even more), and I am fine with it.

SFxT is amazing, the cast is already huge, more than half of that is totally new in a 2d environment, so I really do not understand why Capcom is in the wrong here in any way, shape or form.

There are videos of these 12 characters, fully finished, being used in fights. So yeah, even if taking them off the disc in their still complete form doesn't change anything, people would rather pretend that it isn't the same case. I guess knowing there's 12 complete characters on the disc that you can't access until paying later is like the game is taunting you.

 

[tsab]

So, will the PC version get the DLC characters?

I am certain you will buy them via the Windows Marketstore or whatever they call it.
This WILL be a Games For Windows title afterall

 

[mclem]

So I'm with you in boycotting the game. Companies need to start learning the market sets the price, not them.

Given the fact that it seems reasonably lucrative and continues happening, should that statement not in fact be "DLC protestors need to start learning the market as a whole sets the price, not just them"?

 

[Tizoc]

So, will the PC version get the DLC characters?

Yes they should. I think the PC ver. is releasing in May prob. to remove their data from the disc ;P

 

[Hayeya]

And it's sad that it's totally a non-issue.

It was planned to be DLC, so it would have either been a waste of bandwidth or have it ready to go so you don't have to download a 500 mb patch. I guess everyone would have been a lot happier downloading a big patch.

Narcosis are you a Capcom employee or what ???? Take it easy, relaxxxxx

 

[Mr Touchdown]

Take it easy, relaxxxxx

Same could be said of the people complaining.

 

[dose]

Are there empty entries visible on the character select screen, ready for when the new DLC characters become available?

 

[Yuripaw]

If it wasn't on the disk, this whole topic wouldn't have been here. They should just have it day, or leave it off the disk.
This is getting ridiculous, and I don't see them pricing this sensibly. They would probably sell a lot more if there was a season pass, like WB did for Batman and MK; and then for substantial necessary content like characters treat it like AE. The Street Fighter IV series is the only fighting game DLC they did correct.

This right here is the most reasonable solution. I like the idea of the season pass stuff. It gets paying for the content out of the way, and it gets you all of it at a little bit of a discount compared to buying it separately usually.

Capcom's track record shows that they don't really price DLC fairly though, and so we'll end up paying a lot more than we should have to for the type of DLC that they have planned. Paying $5 per character is not something I can get behind, but give me a season pass of all the upcoming characters and costumes for $15-$20, and I'd probably be okay with that. They'd probably sell a lot more, and it would be still be profitable.

 

[V_Arnold]

There are videos of these 12 characters, fully finished, being used in fights. So yeah, even if taking them off the disc in their still complete form doesn't change anything, people would rather pretend that it isn't the same case. I guess knowing there's 12 complete characters on the disc that you can't access until paying later is like the game is taunting you.

I understand this.
But! When we need to use smoke and mirrors instead of engaging what is the core of the matter is when my bullshit meter starts to tick off.

If I were completely fine (or "okay-ish") with DLC NOT being on the disk but would be sad/mad/enraged when it is on the disc, and I still have to buy the unlock codes, that would mean that I have an issue with how I perceive content as "mine" and "theirs". This issue is just a reflection of that, and is by no means Capcom's fault.

What I am touching upon here is this: if just selling it as downloadable makes it okay, you still have zero control over your content. All you will achieve is that every single publisher would be using this method to control the content and continue doing DLC while the game is being developed, not after.

The thing is, developers already has to plan ahead with DLC and create the most or all the content within the development cycle. But the product has nothing to do with how the development went: that is STRICTLY the matter between funder/publisher and the developer.

The only relation a player has to the developers is when they are buying the game or not based on what it contains. In our case, SFxT contains 38 characters. It does not matter how many was made during development, or how many is in the disk, they are offering you 38 characters for your money - take it or leave it. But the physical arrangement of the additional (or reduced, say however one once to spin it) content changes nothing in this regard.

 

[Nose Master]

Yes, I really have a hard time understanding what is goiing on with some opinions regarding this.

I understand hating the DLC method OVERALL.
But asking DLC to be REMOVED from disk just so...just what?

Removed is the wrong word. It would have been much better if they weren't on the disc in the first place, even if they were completely finished. I know that I'm buying a lot of retail games piecemeal, but Capcom doesn't need to rub my nose in it.

Here's hoping they at least release them at a decent price. Or a pack.

 

[toddhunter]

Given the fact that it seems reasonably lucrative and continues happening, should that statement not in fact be "DLC protestors need to start learning the market as a whole sets the price, not just them"?

Yes seems like a simple concept to me.

Companies will do what they can to stay in business. If they go to far, people will not buy their products and they will be in trouble.

In the meantime, they sell things and make money and stay in business.

Staying in business is a good thing, because they get to make games. I like to purchase games, the system works well.

If they are on the disc or not makes no difference. I knew what I was getting. I don't get the source code either. I paid my money. I made the choice. If they offer more things, I will make a similar choice.

 

[Castor Krieg]

Narcosis are you a Capcom employee or what ???? Take it easy, relaxxxxx

He is right, though. Every single time a thread about this is made, it's due to DLC being on the disc, while many games have Day 1 or Day 15 DLC, which is a non-issue, while being terribly obvious they were made during normal production process. Notice the response below:

Removed is the wrong word. It would have been much better if they weren't on the disc in the first place, even if they were completely finished.

 

[V_Arnold]

Removed is the wrong word. It would have been much better if they weren't on the disc in the first place, even if they were completely finished. I know that I'm buying a lot of retail games piecemeal, but Capcom doesn't need to rub my nose in it.

Here's hoping they at least release them at a decent price. Or a pack.

Capcom is not rubbing your nose in it. You are doing that to yourself.
Really, think about it for a second There are no empty boxes for DLC characters in the game. The characters are not even announced yet for home versions.

If it were not for:
1) Hackers doing stuff that is borderline illegal
2) Hackers uploading the results to public channels
3) FGC sites like Eventhubs searching wildly for such content
4) People who were already expecting the "next Crapcom bullshit" actively looking out for such footage

..without all these steps, you would not have to care about this at all. At all.

 

[Alucrid]

Hm, so why doesn't capcom just keep these off the disc and just let the data sit until they start rolling out the DLC? That way there's no bad press. Is it more costly for however megabytes the download for the actual characters would be as opposed to just an unlock key?

 

[GraveHorizon]

Does this mean we're officially in the future now? Also, which is more infuriating, this or the Jill/Shuma debacle? Because that was just two characters.

And if you think about it, the characters already being on the disc is actually more beneficial to the consumer, because you won't have to spend a lot of time downloading all the character data; it'll just be a tiny code, and you can be playing with them in seconds.

Spoiler

I think it's lame.

 

[Castor Krieg]

Hm, so why doesn't capcom just keep these off the disc and just let the data sit until they start rolling out the DLC? That way there's no bad press. Is it more costly for however megabytes the download for the actual characters would be as opposed to just an unlock key?

Most likely they are lazy, or it's just a pain to partition a game like that, and way better to keep it behind unlock code.

 

[V_Arnold]

Most likely they are lazy, or it's just a pain to partition a game like that, and way better to keep it behind unlock code.

At one point, someone will have to explain this in detail.
Who do you consider lazy in this process? The developer? The programmers? When they are working on a project at this scale, the last thing they are doing is "hey Nishima san, do you think we should INCLUDE or not include this on the disk? Oh, include it, I am lazy!"

Or the publisher? If they have to pay for the bandwith generated by the downloaded amount to MS/Sony, then of course they will save cost if the content is done.

 

[Gokurakumaru]

Given the fact that it seems reasonably lucrative and continues happening, should that statement not in fact be "DLC protestors need to start learning the market as a whole sets the price, not just them"?

Given the oversaturation and death of the fighting game genre 10 years ago, I wouldn't be so quick to gloat about how well this experiment is working. In the meantime I'll be doing my bit and not buying, and being vocal about the reason why on message boards so that Capcom can work out the reason why their games are tanking should that day ever come.

 

[Castor Krieg]

At one point, someone will have to explain this in detail.
Who do you consider lazy in this process? The developer? The programmers? When they are working on a project at this scale, the last thing they are doing is "hey Nishima san, do you think we should INCLUDE or not include this on the disk? Oh, include it, I am lazy!"

Or the publisher? If they have to pay for the bandwith generated by the downloaded amount to MS/Sony, then of course they will save cost if the content is done.

True, that's tricky.

The developer, because most likely after crunch time and working on a game for 2-3 years the last thing you want is to re-visit finished game and carefully cut the content, while making sure it doesn't screw up some part of the game.

The publisher, because if they have to pay for bandwidth, there is no reason for them not to include it on a disc. They will get some bad press, but I figure they already decided it will offset extra bandwidth costs they would've paid if they made gamers download MBs of assets for new characters.

I will go with developer then. It's a great coincidence with regard to DLC issue that motivations of a developer and publisher are different, yet they still arrive at the same conclusion.

 

[Nose Master]

Capcom is not rubbing your nose in it. You are doing that to yourself.
Really, think about it for a second There are no empty boxes for DLC characters in the game. The characters are not even announced yet for home versions.

If it were not for:
1) Hackers doing stuff that is borderline illegal
2) Hackers uploading the results to public channels
3) FGC sites like Eventhubs searching wildly for such content
4) People who were already expecting the "next Crapcom bullshit" actively looking out for such footage

..without all these steps, you would not have to care about this at all. At all.

You're right, I wouldn't. You forgot one. 5) Capcom thinks ahead. The 360 isn't exactly air-tight. You have to expect this sort of thing to happen, if it's there.

How exactly are they going to word this when they do announce the DLC for purchase? If it isn't reasonably priced (hah), they will eat so much shit.

 

[Tizoc]

Just saw Elena footage...AND SHE LOOKS GORGEOUS!

 

[Ploid 3.0]

I'm going to finally fold on this capcom game. I'll wait for a great steam, amazon download, or ps3 sale. Something along the lines of $20-$30, may skip it all together and just enjoy the tournament casts. I'm still more interested in watching UMVC3 streams. I'm not even thirsty for games enough for this type of a ride.

The characters I would like to play are dlc key unlocks. How about if I were to just buy those two characters and a extra $10 for a client and be able to play online with only those two characters?

Good luck with this weird situation capcom. Fighting games are already not that popular compared to other genres, you should be making them more attractive than to make the fans pay more. Though it's works better for streaming since there's only one pov.

SF4:
DLC alts
DLC alts from SF4 aren't included in SSF4 as default.
Alts are included in SF4 3DS

MVC3:
DLC characters Included on the disk but seem to be unfinished
DLC characters aren't included in UMVC3. Wasted since not many use them.
Good stuff included in PSV UMVC3 (buy PSV to see the hitboxes of attacks, watch replays, and improve your game!)

SFxT:
Following MVC3's character downloads I see these characters being used even less. It would be better if all the characters were included in dlc like SF4AE rather than separately, that way everyone could upgrade, or go back and play the normal SFxT with people that didn't. No surprises because some people can't train against particular characters.

Gems in the tournament streams is going to be interesting, I hope the USB thing works out. Should have the side effect of getting rid of button checks too.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Capcom is not rubbing your nose in it. You are doing that to yourself.
Really, think about it for a second There are no empty boxes for DLC characters in the game. The characters are not even announced yet for home versions.

If it were not for:
1) Hackers doing stuff that is borderline illegal
2) Hackers uploading the results to public channels
3) FGC sites like Eventhubs searching wildly for such content
4) People who were already expecting the "next Crapcom bullshit" actively looking out for such footage

..without all these steps, you would not have to care about this at all. At all.

News is news, paparazzi, celebrity candid drug pictures, E! type shows grabbing any news they can do the same thing. The people finding stuff on their disk didn't get in trouble for finding art work, easter eggs, or available soundtracks (sf movie psx) by looking at the files.

 

[mclem]

Hm, so why doesn't capcom just keep these off the disc and just let the data sit until they start rolling out the DLC? That way there's no bad press. Is it more costly for however megabytes the download for the actual characters would be as opposed to just an unlock key?

It'd have to be *both* a patch containing the characters for non-purchasers to fight against *and* a separate DLC for the unlock key; they'd have to incur extra costs for something that *really* shouldn't matter. And as soon as a person downloads the patch, they *then* "have the data but it's being withheld from them until they buy an unlock key"; it's not really fixing the perception issue.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Is there a list (not a screenshot) of the 12 characters somewhere?

 

[Ploid 3.0]

It'd have to be *both* a patch containing the characters for non-purchasers to fight against *and* a separate DLC for the unlock key; they'd have to incur extra costs for something that *really* shouldn't matter. And as soon as a person downloads the patch, they *then* "have the data but it's being withheld from them until they buy an unlock key"; it's not really fixing the perception issue.

No, in that situation they are downloading the characters to be able to see who they are fighting. They are updating their game to be compatible with the new dlc. This happens all the time. Capcom is pinching pennies too much. You want to do dlc don't be sloppy with it, and stop asking me if I want to check for dlc at when I boot up my game (hate popups in games I already bought). I usually boot it up because someone wants to play. That prompt + the other stuff loading on slow me down.

 

[akilshohen]

also, who is that box with the blank head next to Random? Xbox 360 version of cole?

Why can't avatars replace the cats? LOL.

 

[mclem]

No, in that situation they are downloading the characters to be able to see who they are fighting. They are updating their game to be compatible with the new dlc. This happens all the time.

But it's the same thing! That's my point. The *only* difference is one of perception. Unless you can present some substantive reason that a post-release patch to add the characters (which were created ahead of time) is 'fairer' than including them on the disc?

 

[liger05]

Forget DLC. Its all about the old days of taking the Dreamcast VMU to the arcades to the get the extra characters on Marvel v Capcom 2. That was the way to get extra content!!!

Shame the UK arcade machines never had this option so I missed out.

 

[Izayoi]

Welcome to the future of gaming. Whether it was on the disc or not doesn't really bother me, it's the fact that the content is finished and ready to go with the shipped game but they instead withheld it in order to nickel and dime.

It's not going to change, though. People are going to continue lapping this shit up and developers will continue with this practice.

We gave them an inch, and they're more than happy to take a mile. Hell, gamers seem like they're ready to give more than just an inch. We're practically renting many online games nowadays, it probably won't be long until all games are rented out and nobody really owns anything anymore. Monthly fees and DLC hell for everyone!

 

[test_account]

I never understood the complains about DLC being on the disc. What is the difference that you download a 3D model/patch or downloading an unlock code? The result would be exactly the same.

6 years into this generation, we know that DLC is planned before the game is out. And if a game has 50 characters, why should people be entitled to get 10 more characters for free? It took extra time and money to create those extra 10 characters.

 

[tsab]

Is there a list (not a screenshot) of the 12 characters somewhere?

Characters that will be revealed/released by the Vita version's release
Street Fighter:
Guy
Cody
Blanka

Sakura
Dudley
Elena

Tekken:
Bryan Fury
Lars Alexanderson
Alisa Boskonovitch
Lei Wulong
Jack-X
Christie Montiero


http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=464822

 

[Izayoi]

And if a game has 50 characters, why should people be entitled to get 10 more characters for free? It took extra time and money to create those extra 10 characters.

That's a pretty slippery slope. What dictates "extra"? At what point does it stop being part of the base game and become additional content?

"If a game has 1 character, why should people be entitled to get 49 more characters for free? It took time and money to create those extra 49 characters."

 

[tsab]

What if Sony just paid Capcom to delay the unlocking of the characters to make the Vita version superior?
You know, to increase the Vita sales.

Spoiler

but IT IS capcoma afterall. they will milk their fans for the rest cast

 

[Venfayth]

Dunno if anyones posted this yet, but someones playing the DLC characters on stream:

http://www.twitch.tv/sfxtekken2

 

[EvilMario]

If it wasn't on the disk, this whole topic wouldn't have been here. They should just have it day, or leave it off the disk.
This is getting ridiculous, and I don't see them pricing this sensibly. They would probably sell a lot more if there was a season pass, like WB did for Batman and MK; and then for substantial necessary content like characters treat it like AE. The Street Fighter IV series is the only fighting game DLC they did correct.

It wouldn't have blown up as much, but there is backlash for DLC that's available at launch as well.

Vote with your money, people. If you don't like the practice, don't buy the game, and don't buy the DLC.

 

[mclem]

That's a pretty slippery slope. What dictates "extra"? At what point does it stop being part of the base game and become additional content?

"If a game has 1 character, why should people be entitled to get 49 more characters for free? It took time and money to create those extra 49 characters."

That goes both ways. If a company was selling a game with 1 character (and 49 as further DLC) , then it'll have to *justify* the $60 pricetag to do so. Skylanders pretty much manages this; 3 characters, a further 29 as 'dlc' (after a fashion), but it manages to justify the pricetag enough to be successful.

Alternatively, what if the game had one character - and 49 as DLC - but the 1-character game was *free*? That's pretty much the basis of the F2P model; the DLC is accepted because the price of entry is fair.

So, ultimately: Is $60 a fair price for 38 characters? Ignore everything else that's in this environment, just focus on that single issue. Is $60 a fair price for the advertised product?

If $60 is a fair price for you for the advertised product, buy it. If not, don't. That is the only meaningful criteria here.

 

[Chev]

I never understood the complains about DLC being on the disc. What is the difference that you download a 3D model/patch or downloading an unlock code? The result would be exactly the same.

At the root of it it's down to false advertising. If it's already there and working, there is nothing "downloadable" about it. Needing an activation key hardly qualifies since then any game needing activation could be considered DLC.

Unlockable content would be a more correct term, but naturally it's avoided because players expect mere unlockables to be free or unlocked through achievements, and any denomination containing "pay" is frowned upon because it scares people away.

if it's gotta be there they could at least have encrypted it so it isn't trivial to activate it without paying.

 

[Gokurakumaru]

6 years into this generation, we know that DLC is planned before the game is out. And if a game has 50 characters, why should people be entitled to get 10 more characters for free? It took extra time and money to create those extra 10 characters.

Don't pretend this is about covering production costs, because it blatantly isn't. You see this happening all over the industry, most recently with Gears of War 3 and Mass Effect 3. DLC hits its stride after the series draws in a fanbase, not when the companies are trying to build one.

So what is it that makes those last 12 characters so expensive to make? It took time and money to make the first 38 characters too. Capcom somehow had enough budget left to blow on modelling extra costumes, rendered promotional trailers and fully animated endings.

In 2008 Capcom were somehow able to create an entirely new engine, some 25 characters, and commission a game-exclusive anime for their first iteration of Street Fighter IV. This game is built on that engine and using a chunk of those character assets.

Do people honestly believe the game would be unprofitable without DLC characters? Or have people just become so accustomed to being ripped off that they don't even bother making a fuss anymore?

 

[mclem]

At the root of it it's down to false advertising. If it's already there and working, there is nothing "downloadable" about it. Needing an activation key hardly qualifies since then any game needing activation could be considered DLC.

Isn't that just an issue of semantics?