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[mclem]

As for my issue with this game, I believe it's false advertising to say a game will have DLC, when it is on the disk. It is misrepresenting the term and leads to uninformed buying decisions. It's a microtransaction if you're being honest. Now say you're selling a game and it's advertised with microtransactions, then I believe that would have effected the sales in a different way than misrepresenting it as DLC.

Do you kick up a fuss in a restaurant if the blue plate special isn't served to you on a blue plate?

 

[Ken Masters]

Do you kick up a fuss in a restaurant if the blue plate special isn't served to you on a blue plate?

Only when the pizza restaurant has no pizza

 

[Master Milk]

1. Characters are significant content for a fighting game. Major gameplay content that takes work to create, design, tweak, etc. This is not something a developer does on his/her lunch break in a day. It's significant work in both time and money.

Okay.

2. Do people really think Capcom went into this with no plan or idea of how many characters to shoot for on the roster and what their plans were for additional content outside of that core content?

I'm not sure what the point of this one is. Of course they had a plan. The plan is to hold the 12 characters back for DLC and the Vita version of the game sometime in the Fall.

3. Do you really think Capcom would have created all 50 of these characters if they weren't planning to sell some later? i.e. Would anyone really expect Capcom to have put all 50 in the $60 retail release?

Here's the one I really wanted. The way this is phrased is either terribly disingenuous or horribly uninformed. Capcom didn't just up and create 50 new characters for this game. A lot of the characters are taken from a game that already existed. I refuse to believe the same effort it takes to create a new character from scratch matches the effort it takes to port a character from one game to the next.

I think Capcom could have easily given us a game with these 50 characters for $60. The reason they don't is because they feel they can make more money by releasing them as DLC instead.

But your question wasn't could they, but would they. To that, I'd say yes, if DLC didn't exist, and they didn't have the option of making more money post $60 retail release, yes, they'd have given us a game with these 50 characters from the start. It isn't an insane idea to think that Capcom would release a fighting game with a huge roster.

Not trying to defend them, but just think realistically about those a minute.

Just something to think about for those outraged by this: Isn't it their choice how to sell their work? I know to many it feels like an injustice or corporate greed they do this or we can't have all these if the data is on the disc, but it seems to me that if this stuff wasn't planned to sell, we'd be sitting here with the same accessible content we'd have now for $60.

It's their choice, yes, but if their choice is a method that their customers don't agree with, one that makes them feel like they're being wronged, isn't it the customers' right to get upset?

Just in terms of the character DLC, I find it amusing how much hate Capcom is getting for selling major work-intensive content when Namco gets no where near this amount for its Soul Calibur V DLC. I have no idea what's "on the disc", but I'm pretty sure the extra costume parts weren't all made-post launch.

Even more jarring, last time I checked there were 26! music tracks to buy for SCV at $1 a pop. Music tracks from old SC games. Completed music tracks! Tracks that required almost no new work aside from possibility re-encoding them to another audio format or something. Maybe. $26 for simply throwing existing audio files into the game. THAT I find offensive. Where's the Namco hate thread?

Fighters catch hate for all types of DLC. Characters, costumes, colors, whatever. Someone somewhere on the internet hates it, and is vocal about it.

The main thing, however, is that how much hate other companies do or don't get doesn't excuse or justify Capcom's actions.

 

[mclem]

But your question wasn't could they, but would they. To that, I'd say yes, if DLC didn't exist, and they didn't have the option of making more money post $60 retail release, yes, they'd have given us a game with these 50 characters from the start. It isn't an insane idea to think that Capcom would release a fighting game with a huge roster.

So you're saying that they'd have been able to produce exactly the same amount of content... on a smaller budget? Intruiging. How?

 

[Master Milk]

So you're saying that they'd have been able to produce exactly the same amount of content... on a smaller budget? Intruiging. How?

I didn't say anything about budget. Where are you pulling that from?

Why are you assuming the budget would have been smaller?

 

[mclem]

I didn't say anything about budget. Where are you pulling that from?

Why are you assuming the budget would have been smaller?

Because sensible budgeting is proportional to expected revenue. Take out the DLC, you're taking out a further stream of revenue; the expected revenue should drop, and so the (overall) budget should be reduced accordingly.

 

[Kai Dracon]

The only times Capcom has ever released a FG for consoles with 50+ characters was MVC2, which was actually a quick and dirty low budget game built out of the bones of 5 games worth of recycled sprites.

The only indication of what an "average" budget for a Capcom FG in this much more expensive era of development, and an "average" amount of content, suggests that 25-35 characters is average with a certain quality of audio-visuals.

We cannot, of course, know their internal budgeting without them giving us documentation.

But it seems quite a jump to assume they would release a game with around 55 characters, where over half of them were brand new work from scratch, for the same budget and price as their other FGs this gen.

You could assume that out of the kindness of their heart, the accounting department said "fuck it, let's have much slimmer profit margins on this release. We don't need the cash. Make much more content for the same budget and dev cycle!"

But I dunno.

Everyone is so cynical about DLC, yet not, evidently, cynical enough to assume that the game wouldn't have 55 characters if there was no possibility of more revenue to cover its increased size compared to their previous releases.

 

[Master Milk]

Because sensible budgeting is proportional to expected revenue. Take out the DLC, you're taking out a further stream of revenue, so the expected revenue should be expected to drop.

Taking out the DLC is what's giving them a further stream of revenue . . .

Couldn't resist. Anyway.

Capcom's released fighters in the past with large rosters that reused assets from previous fighters without going under, so I have to imagine that it's possible for them to do so. DLC expands their revenue, sure. But it's not absolutely necessary. I don't think it's the reason we're getting this content. DLC isn't the reason this content exists. It exists because Capcom thinks people would enjoy it in the game. DLC is, however, the reason why people have to pay extra money to use the content.

 

[mclem]

Capcom's released fighters in the past with large rosters that reused assets from previous fighters without going under, so I have to imagine that it's possible for them to do so. DLC expands their revenue, sure. But it's not absolutely necessary. I don't think it's the reason we're getting this content. DLC isn't the reason this content exists. It exists because Capcom thinks people would enjoy it in the game. DLC is, however, the reason why people have to pay extra money to use the content.

It exists because Capcom thinks people would enjoy it in the game AND DLC revenue would justify budgeting to make it.

If Capcom thought people would enjoy it in the game but there was no DLC option to budget to make it, where does the money come from?

 

[Master Milk]

The only times Capcom has ever released a FG for consoles with 50+ characters was MVC2, which was actually a quick and dirty low budget game built out of the bones of 5 games worth of recycled sprites.

The only indication of what an "average" budget for a Capcom FG in this much more expensive era of development, and an "average" amount of content, suggests that 25-35 characters is average with a certain quality of audio-visuals.

Taking that in mind, if you subtract the number of old characters on the roster from the total number, what do you get? Something bigger than 25-35?

We cannot, of course, know their internal budgeting without them giving us documentation.

But it seems quite a jump to assume they would release a game with around 55 characters, where over half of them were brand new work from scratch, for the same budget and price as their other FGs this gen.

You could assume that out of the kindness of their heart, the accounting department said "fuck it, let's have much slimmer profit margins on this release. We don't need the cash. Make much more content for the same budget and dev cycle!"

I don't know much about 3D work, but isn't one of the benefits that you don't have to do this? If you're making a bunch of human characters with similar shapes, can't you use one as a base to work off of?

But I dunno.

It exists because Capcom thinks people would enjoy it in the game AND DLC revenue would justify budgeting to make it.

If Capcom thought people would enjoy it in the game but there was no DLC option to budget to make it, where does the money come from?

How much of this money stuff do they need to make this content?

Oh wait, no, before that, you're assuming things about the budget, again. Nevermind~~~

 

[Ken Masters]

Take away reused characters from SF4 series and the roster (including DLC) becomes quite unimpressive

 

[notworksafe]

Take away reused characters from SF4 series and the roster (including DLC) becomes quite unimpressive

Including DLC there's 34 new characters, I believe. Still 32 if you don't count the cats. That's not too shabby, I'd say.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

And some of the new characters seem to have animations of old characters. Recycle reuse, make the big bucks.