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Planned DLC content for SFxTekken found on the original disc

rocK`

Banned
Feb 11, 2007
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The guys in the OT for SFXT are discussing this now, but I think the concept/debate needs to be brought out of the OT and into more broadly discussed.

SFXT is a fighting game with planned DLC of 12 new characters - all 12 characters, models, movesets, etc. are on the original disc, and the DLC which is most likely going to be charged for, will be a mere unlock code.

Are other games doing this? I can see the arguments on both sides:

1) the assets on the disc should be accessible to the consumer
2) content is required to be on there in order for gamers to play with DLC to play with those without

Though, I can't help feel that we as consumers are setting ourselves up for utter failure down the line...
 

Nemesis_

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Dec 18, 2005
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Just to clarify - the downloadable content is complete?

I remember a similar fiasco for Mortal Kombat and Marvel vs. Capcom 3, but in both cases they were on disc but unfinished (playable, but not completely done)
 
Jun 6, 2004
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You guys have to let it go, the idea that a game is a product (ie: everything you bought is yours if its on the physical medium), is dead. Games are a "service" now, and companies will gleefully nickel and dime you to death. Welcome to Hell, enjoy your stay.


tldr: The license you paid 60 bucks for doesn't include those characters.
 

Cloudy

Banned
Jun 7, 2004
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I don't think is any more wrong than when they withhold completed content to release as DLC later.
 

Conciliator

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Apr 21, 2011
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There's plenty to complain about regarding DLC and microtransactions(one reason I've almost never bought any, although the fact that most of it sucks doesn't hurt), but the on-disc thing is entirely arbitrary. They decided long ago what would be original and what would be DLC. Rather or not they upload it to the disc before shipping it out or not has no tangible effect on your experience or money.
 

CountAntonius

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Jul 30, 2010
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From the other thread...


Who said people like waiting?

The "defense force" thing is cute, but doesn't change the fact that they pay staff to make these DLC characters specifically to sell. Period. If they didn't plan for that revenue stream, they wouldn't have spent the time and money making these. We'd just have what's in the core product. That is reality. I know you people like to scream that you're getting ripped off, but have some common sense and think about how stuff works in real-life. This is how games are budgeted and made now, like it or not. They're not gonna give everything they created to you for free. (nor are you entitled to it) Heck, I'd love to have all 50 now for $60, but that's not how the product was developed.

And guess what, if they weren't on the disc, they'd be sitting on Capcom's computers. So what difference does it effectively make? None. We gotta pay for them either way.

The question people should be asking is how much will they cost and what sort of value is the core product and DLC for the money. Not just knee-jerk crying foul without applying some common sense.

Again for the millionth time, they made these to sell as DLC. Get it?

It's not a defense force. It's the reality of game development.
 

Data West

coaches in the WNBA
Sep 20, 2010
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Has a company ever been busted on this and said 'you know what? we'll make it free. it's clearly a problem for our loyal fanbase'

It seems like complaining about this and pre-order bonuses never go anywhere. It never changes anything, and I doubt it ever will. I mean, you should assume all games have DLC now. If you have a problem and don't want to get nickel and dimed? Just wait for the rerelease. esp if it's a DLC heavy game. Like? I bet Saint's Row 3 has a second release because it has a bunch of DLC. EA seems to be the only publisher that's against those kind of releases, and they did one for Bad Company 2
 
Jun 6, 2004
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I'd like to believe companies really do make extra stuff that they normally wouldn't BECAUSE they can sell it as dlc. However since they are a business, whose sole purpose is to make money, I think its just a line they say most of the time.

Not that I expect them to say "yeah, we cut it out, so what, everyone will buy it anyways and we make more money, so kiss our ass losers."
 
Jun 18, 2010
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I don't think is any more wrong than when they withhold completed content to release as DLC later.

They can at least lie to us and say it was worked on after the game went gold. Here, there is zero excuse. It is content that was probably planned since the start, made along with everything else, and then at the end they chose what to cut and sell as "DLC". It's not going to change, because people will buy both the games and the DLC, which is sad. Things are going to just keep getting worse. The fact that games are launching at stealth $80 price points these days sucks dick. Just wait 8 month for the 40 dollar Turbo Edition with all the "DLC" included.
 

CountAntonius

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So would people be happier with 38 characters period and no DLC at all?

Or having to wait 6 more months for them to develop them then start rolling them out?

Or another UMvc3 situation?

Cause this was planned budgeted DLC that wouldn't exist if it wasn't being sold. Since this seems to be the case this is likely the best way of going about it. No huge patches to DL no incompatibility issues with people who don't own the characters/costumes. No waiting MORE time for them to finish developing them.
 

Kyou

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Jan 25, 2010
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the main interesting thing is that PS3 Exclusives Megaman and Pacman are on the 360 disc
 
Jun 18, 2010
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the main interesting thing is that PS3 Exclusives Megaman and Pacman are on the 360 disc

I would say we'll be seeing the as DLC than. Must just be a timed exclusive.

So would people be happier with 38 characters period and no DLC at all?

Or having to wait 6 more months for them to develop them then start rolling them out?

Or another UMvc3 situation?

Cause this was planned budgeted DLC that wouldn't exist if it wasn't being sold. Since this seems to be the case this is likely the best way of going about it. No huge patches to DL no incompatibility issues with people who don't own the characters/costumes. No waiting MORE time for them to finish developing them.

Or just release them all since they were all done in the normal production timeline, then start on other DLC after the game has gone gold. Or release the game sooner as the man power that went into making this "DLC" could have just worked on the main game. This is not a situation of a second team working on DLC, or time to spare after the game has gone gold. This was surely done alongside everything else by the people who were doing everything else.
 

Slamtastic

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What are the characters?


The final 7 on each company's lineup.
 

lobdale

3 ft, coiled to the sky
Sep 16, 2005
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Sometimes, we pay money for goods and services. I am not mad for people to request my money in exchange for goods or services. It is my decision to make, the one where I pick either keeping my money, or giving it in exchange for goods or services.

One time I wanted something that I didn't have the money to buy. So I kept my money and then I didn't buy it.

Another time there was a thing that I wanted and I had the money. So I bought it. Then I had it but not my money anymore.

Sometimes people give things or services to you without asking for any money. That's nice. But it seems kind of stupid of them. If I made something that I wanted money for, I would ask for money for it.
 

FHIZ

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Aug 23, 2007
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They haven't even been officially announced as DLC either, have they? Isn't Capcom still claiming them as Vita exclusives?

I don't think they ever said "vita exclusive" just that the vita version would have extra charecters you wouldn't have to pay for... But what does it ,after, everyone knew as soon as it was announced that it'd be DLC.

Anyways, this is a lot of egg on Capcom's face. We all know that on disc DLC is the trend, but I don't believe anything like this... You know, it being playable with a hack, has happened before.
 
Jun 18, 2010
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Sometimes, we pay money for goods and services. I am not mad for people to request my money in exchange for goods or services. It is my decision to make, the one where I pick either keeping my money, or giving it in exchange for goods or services.

One time I wanted something that I didn't have the money to buy. So I kept my money and then I didn't buy it.

Another time there was a thing that I wanted and I had the money. So I bought it. Then I had it but not my money anymore.

Sometimes people give things or services to you without asking for any money. That's nice. But it seems kind of stupid of them. If I made something that I wanted money for, I would ask for money for it.

This one time a bought a pizza. When the delivery guy got to my door, he told me two slices were missing, but he'd be happy to bring them to me tomorrow for another $15. I no longer bought their pizza.

Let's put it this way. EVERYONE, even the people defending on disc "DLC" would be fucking pissed if Capcom released an $80 game. They do it this way, and people don't throw a fit. Even if Capcom was flat out like "It was either release an $80 game, or cut characters and sell them to you as DLC." People would laugh, shit would be talked on Gaf, few would buy the $80 game.
 

Ninja Scooter

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Jun 7, 2004
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would it make you feel better if they just made you waste bandwidth and time and download everything in 6 months?

Stop thinking you are entitled to everything that a developer is working on while making a game.
 

CountAntonius

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This one time a bought a pizza. When the delivery guy got to my door, he told me two slices were missing, but he'd be happy to bring them to me tomorrow for another $15. I no longer bought their pizza.

Your pizza was already complete. You just wanted 3 more slices.

These characters would not exist if they weren't planned for DLC. Why don't people get this? Capcom pays dev teams and artists to work on more characters because they are planned as DLC.
 

lobdale

3 ft, coiled to the sky
Sep 16, 2005
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This one time a bought a pizza. When the delivery guy got to my door, he told me two slices were missing, but he'd be happy to bring them to me tomorrow for another $15. I no longer bought their pizza.

Let's put it this way. EVERYONE, even the people defending on disc "DLC" would be fucking pissed if Capcom released an $80 game. They do it this way, and people don't throw a fit.

This one time, I bought a pizza, and they said you got a topping for free but other toppings cost more money. They had the toppings right there, they had already cut the toppings. They did not make the pizza first and then cut the toppings after that. In fact, I knew they had the toppings. But they said if I wanted more than one topping I would have to pay extra. It seemed fine, because more things cost more money. I got some mushrooms cause I like them.
 

web01

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Jan 20, 2008
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Got to love the defenders, Capcom are scum
I do not buy any of their games brand new anymore because of their DLC and improved disc only version BS. They do not get any money from me anymore and I urge others to do the same. The disgusting DLC continues
because people like you are stupid enough to buy it when it is clearly held back from the full game. Japanese devs in general
do not seem to understand DLC because they are always the ones holding content back from the main game.
 

Facism

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Apr 10, 2007
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It's amazing how many "day 1" games have been made "buy used" this generation for me.
 

Ninja Scooter

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Jun 7, 2004
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This one time, I bought a pizza, and they said you got a topping for free but other toppings cost more money. They had the toppings right there, they had already cut the toppings. They did not make the pizza first and then cut the toppings after that. In fact, I knew they had the toppings. But they said if I wanted more than one topping I would have to pay extra. It seemed fine, because more things cost more money. I got some mushrooms cause I like them.

lol perfect response to a stupid analogy.

What's more, you almost always know about the DLC well ahead of time. if you really think it's a rip off, don't buy the game. But stop acting like it is infringing on your rights as a consumer, or like the rest of us are shills for not caring.
 
Jun 18, 2010
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Your pizza was already complete. You just wanted 3 more slices.

These characters would not exist if they weren't planned for DLC. Why don't people get this? Capcom pays dev teams and artists to work on more characters because they are planned as DLC.

You have zero proof of this twice made statement. This was all done at the same time as everything else, obviously, it's on the disk. If it added to the development time, why wouldn't they release the game sooner, and work on the DLC after the game went gold.

This one time, I bought a pizza, and they said you got a topping for free but other toppings cost more money. They had the toppings right there, they had already cut the toppings. They did not make the pizza first and then cut the toppings after that. In fact, I knew they had the toppings. But they said if I wanted more than one topping I would have to pay extra. It seemed fine, because more things cost more money. I got some mushrooms cause I like them.

The difference is that they are now using a quarter less cheese and sauce, and charging you if you want the 25% that used to be included in the initial price.

lol perfect response to a stupid analogy.

What's more, you almost always know about the DLC well ahead of time. if you really think it's a rip off, don't buy the game. But stop acting like it is infringing on your rights as a consumer, or like the rest of us are shills for not caring.

I have ZERO problem with DLC. This isn't DLC. Literally. It isn't DLC.
 

CountAntonius

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Jul 30, 2010
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Got to love the defenders, Capcom are scum
I do not buy any of their games brand new anymore because of their DLC and improved disc only version BS. They do not get any money from me anymore and I urge others to do the same. The disgusting DLC continues
because people like you are stupid enough to buy it when it is clearly held back from the full game. Japanese devs in general
do not seem to understand DLC because they are always the ones holding it back from the main game.

Understand you are insulting people based on your own unfounded assumptions.

You have zero proof of this twice made statement. This was all done at the same time as everything else, obviously, it's on the disk. If it added to the development time, why wouldn't they release the game sooner, and work on the DLC after the game went gold.

Prove it isn't?

14 characters were made to be thrown into this game? More than half of the existing cast in SFxTK is new(all of tekken) so they made another 14 with thoughts of including them and said "oh wait we can make more money!."
 

Ninja Scooter

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Jun 7, 2004
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The difference is that they are now using a quarter less cheese and sauce, and charging you if you want the 25% that used to be included in the initial price.

You have no idea that that is what they are doing. There are shitload of characters in SFxT as it is. For all you know if there were no promise of extra revenue from DLC Capcom wouldn't have green lit them to spend any extra resources to create more characters.


I have ZERO problem with DLC. This isn't DLC. Literally. It isn't DLC.

It is DLC. Literally. You are paying for it later, whether its' the full content or the content is just an unlock key. Capcom has the right to distribute their content however they see fit, it's not up to you. But they aren't being deceptive about it.
 

rocK`

Banned
Feb 11, 2007
2,546
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This one time, I bought a pizza, and they said you got a topping for free but other toppings cost more money. They had the toppings right there, they had already cut the toppings. They did not make the pizza first and then cut the toppings after that. In fact, I knew they had the toppings. But they said if I wanted more than one topping I would have to pay extra. It seemed fine, because more things cost more money. I got some mushrooms cause I like them.

I'm not a fan of using analogies to argue these kinds of concepts since the goods/services are always different - but your analogy doesn't make sense.

When you buy a game, you get access to the content that you buy.

If you bought a PS3, you should have the ability to do whatever the hell you want to it - you own the PS3, not Sony.

To use your analogy - you buy a pizza, it's a pepperoni pizza - you're about to take a bite and the store owner goes 'whoa, hold on, you didn't buy that pepperoni slice, that'll cost you .99c more'.

You're buying the game - the content is on the disc - why do you need to pay more to play it?
 

lobdale

3 ft, coiled to the sky
Sep 16, 2005
4,620
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Y
The difference is that they are now using a quarter less cheese and sauce, and charging you if you want the 25% that used to be included in the initial price.

They are using a quarter less cheese and sauce.

There are 38 characters and the game is sixty dollars.

Street Fighter II had 8 characters and was also sixty dollars, only it was more but never mind. That means either this game should be over 240 dollars, or Street Fighter II should have been fifteen dollars.

Wait, this doesn't make sense.
 

Ninja Scooter

Member
Jun 7, 2004
123,697
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They are using a quarter less cheese and sauce.

There are 38 characters and the game is sixty dollars.

Street Fighter II had 8 characters and was also sixty dollars, only it was more but never mind. That means either this game should be over 240 dollars, or Street Fighter II should have been fifteen dollars.

Wait, this doesn't make sense.


$60? Try $75-80 on SNES. And then a year later another $70 for SF2 Turbo just to play as those 4 boss characters that were already on the cartridge I bought a year ago, and had been playable in arcades for months. And this was for inferior bare bones arcade ports. But yeah, the old days before DLC were sooo much better for the consumer. The "good old days"!
 

Unicorn

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The guys in the OT for SFXT are discussing this now, but I think the concept/debate needs to be brought out of the OT and into more broadly discussed.

SFXT is a fighting game with planned DLC of 12 new characters - all 12 characters, models, movesets, etc. are on the original disc, and the DLC which is most likely going to be charged for, will be a mere unlock code.

Are other games doing this? I can see the arguments on both sides:

1) the assets on the disc should be accessible to the consumer
2) content is required to be on there in order for gamers to play with DLC to play with those without

Though, I can't help feel that we as consumers are setting ourselves up for utter failure down the line...
gotta be dat NAMCO tie-in.
 

lobdale

3 ft, coiled to the sky
Sep 16, 2005
4,620
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$60? Try $75-80 on SNES. And then a year later another $70 for SF2 Turbo just to play as those 4 boss characters that were already on the cartridge I bought a year ago, and had been playable in arcades for months. And this was for inferior bare bones arcade ports. But yeah, the old days before DLC were sooo much better for the consumer. The "good old days"!

"only it was more but never mind."
 
Jun 18, 2010
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You have no idea that that is what they are doing. There are shitload of characters in SFxT as it is. For all you know if there were no promise of extra revenue from DLC Capcom wouldn't have green lit them to spend any extra resources to create more characters.

It is DLC. Literally. You are paying for it later, whether its' the full content or the content is just an unlock key. Capcom has the right to distribute their content however they see fit, it's not up to you. But they aren't being deceptive about it.

If you're not downloading the content, it can't be downloadable content.

Again, if this was always planned as DLC, why would they hold back the game relase for it? They obviously did because it is on the disc, meaning development time was put into it that could have been spent on getting the rest of the game done.

If you want to buy it, buy it. My point is just that if games started costing $80 tomorrow, people would throw a fit. But the fact they can do it this way and people think it's fine is lame to me.

They are using a quarter less cheese and sauce.

There are 38 characters and the game is sixty dollars.

Street Fighter II had 8 characters and was also sixty dollars, only it was more but never mind. That means either this game should be over 240 dollars, or Street Fighter II should have been fifteen dollars.

Wait, this doesn't make sense.

Are you attempting to argue that todays games should be judged by the storage space and technical capabilities of the SNES?
 

t26

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Dec 28, 2011
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In the end the only difference is the amount of space it will take up on the HDD, so it is not something I will go crazy.