narcosis219
Member
Apparently, gamers have no knowledge whatsoever on what budgets and development cycles are.
Also, you think Gameshark would be legal for selling stuff that would bypass barriers for paid content? lol.
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Planned DLC content for SFxTekken found on the original disc
- Thread starter rocK`
- Start date
Apparently, gamers have no knowledge whatsoever on what budgets and development cycles are.
Also, you think Gameshark would be legal for selling stuff that would bypass barriers for paid content? lol.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
I'm not against giving people the choice to cheat anyway, to be honest. As long as I get to keep the unlockable stuff without having to pay for as a "clever" DLC practise, I'm totally cool with that use of DLC.
But some games fit better with this than others, you're right about that. What bothers me though, is that publishers try to force all their games trough this 'mold' as it gets them more money.
The world doesn't need another CoD or Halo, imo.
SiegfriedFM
Member
What's really annoying, is that when I bring out that disc to play on a brand new Playstation 3 I got off Ebay in 15 years, there's no way I can use those characters since Sony folded in 2017 and SEN is long gone.
FallingEdge
Member
It was too much time. I want to play a fighting game with all the chars unlocked. Don't want to play arcade mode 2094298 times just to have a full roster.
SiegfriedFM
Member
You unlocked the characters that mattered in six runs through the arcade mode. Only Gouken was a challenge. Seth, who wanted him?
iKeepPlaying
Banned
4 hours is too much time? (24 times * 10 minutes)
Seriously?
I know that some guys doesn't have much time. But if you're going serious on a fighting game, 4 hours is nothing.
SolarPowered
Member
So bad
I unlocked all of them on my cousin's 360 using my hard drive since I had to send my console in for repairs(RROD just a day after I got the game ugh). When the data for SFIV corrupted as I tried to load it on my new 360 a couple of weeks later I just gave up on the game.
Could have turned out very different had my hype not been crushed by the stupid unlocks.
Ploid 3.0
Member
The PS3 mods are so good at that year. You're better off emulating ps3 on your android brain chip though.
InvincibleAgent
Member
Just wait 6 months for the $40 full version.
And they probably cost 20x's more to make now also. Gamers are so spoiled.
They save a lot on discs manufacturing, they are probably literally 3-5s cheaper to manufacture at least.
http://www.forbes.com/2006/12/19/ps...pensivegames_slide_8.html?thisSpeed=undefined
http://www.emedialive.com/Articles/ReadArticle.aspx?CategoryID=112&ArticleID=14071
http://www.n-sider.com/contentview.php?contentid=231
ninjatrigg
Neo Member
Things arent gonna be that way in the future.
This is why we have game companies releasing their catalogs as downloads. (i.e. psn, live, wiiware)
Yeah we have to pay money for it, but thats how its gonna be.
Unless you go emulate.
Probably the guy that perfected Daigo at Evo last year...
No, you're a consumerist whore. There is no new merits here. It's a hidden price increase for a product. Let's not beat around the bush here.
Companies love the geek culture because they are very prone to identifying with a product. It's not just nostalgia, but the inherit attachment one has when they are considered or consider themselves as some sort of outcast. When that outcast sees something unifying them to other outcasts, such as a hobby or product, then they latch onto that property as a point of pride and belonging. To attack it is to attack them and their love of it.
In addition to that, the geek culture has disposable income to waste and skews towards teen and young 20s, which puts it in the age bracket before the full development of the pre frontal cortex which controls impulses.
So geek = Prime Consumerist Whore stock
Gokurakumaru
Banned
Which means nothing to someone who doesn't hang on Ono's every press release, and has absolutely nothing to do with the question at hand.
To reiterate, the question I (and I'm sure many others) are asking themselves is not whether or not 38 characters is worth $60, it's whether 50 characters is worth north of $80. Because that's the decision you will be faced with when the DLC goes live and it's all over the online and tournament scene.
So your argument boils down to the claim that to be competitive, you *have* to own the DLC? You're not actually making any considerations about development processes, it's simply from the standpoint of an all-or-nothing thing?
Back in the day, did you *have* to move on to Super SF2 to remain competitive? If not, why not? It seems like much the same thing, just dressed up in different clothing.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
It dawned on me today that Capcom may make good on their promise NOT to create a "Super" version.
Think about it; they released Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 with 12 characters, and some upgrades for $40. Why short change yourself when you can simply sell the 12 characters via three seperate packs of four for around $15-$17 a pop? Now you're raking in MORE money than you would by offering a Super version and the gung ho types have no choice but to pay an extra $45+ for all of the characters, and that's not even counting aternate outfits!
No wonder Capcom projects such a large percentage of their future earnings to come from DD. They've wised up and are going to sock it to us!
It's 4 hours I'm not wasting. "Playing" arcade mode is time I could spend doing something enjoyable. Now, if you're broke and have a lot of time, that may not be so bad.
Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't create a "Super" edition (contracts with Namco may interfere with that), but after a period of time they started bundling a "free download of extra characters" voucher with existing copies of the game. Ubisoft did that after a while with PoP2008.
Effectively the same as a super edition, but presented in such a way that could arguably not interfere with Namco.
Obviously it was too hard to unlock Seth since that guy was playing ryu at the time.
KidA Seven
Member
Except there are tournaments. Now think how much time they will spend to unlock all of the characters.
I would rather buy something than unlock.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
I think gamers have a perfect understanding.
Before: Develop a game with 30 playable characters, ten of which are unlocked when completing the game with different characters.
Now: Develop a game with 30 playable characters, but ten of which are set aside as DLC to make extra cash after the initial sale.
The budget is the same, as is the development cycle. Only now you're holding content from the consumer in the interest of making more money off of them. Hence the FACT that the content is already finished and on the retail disc, only to be purchased again months later to give the impression that this stuff was developed months after the game's release.
Thankfully we've got guys like Epic, Gear Box, DICE, and Naughty Dog, Infinity Ward, etc, that do things properly. The content isn't finished until after the game had already shipped. It's not hidden on the disc. That's how it should be, and that tells me that yes, there was a seperate budget for DLC, and a seperate development cycle from the full game.
But if anyone disagrees that's fine. I'm pro consumer, and don't like shady shit when I see it.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
I would think if you're good enough to enter a tournament, you should have no problem unlocking a couple characters.
This. It's nice to have a story/arcade mode for people who care about them, but don't force me to waste my time fighting the CPU just to unlock the characters I want to play. Make costumes, artwork or other similar stuff unlockable, but not gameplay related elements.
KidA Seven
Member
What does that have to do with the time it takes to unlock them? There are a shit load of consoles that need to unlock all characters and they take a lot of time. It would suck to have to deal with that. But you're also assuming the top players would want to waste their time unlocking characters. It would probably be the tournament organizer and the staff unlocking these characters.
Actually, for KOF, a game with fairly mild unlocks, this was causing problems left and right during the KOF tourney at Final Round. To keep the tourney moving, and knowing I was nothing more then a pot monster, I decided to not use Billy (doesn't hurt me much if any), because they didn't have him unlocked on a bunch of the PS3's.
So yeah, it does cause problems competitively.
There are two groups of FG players
a) competitive players who just want to play the game versus folks, and despise wasting time on SP content
b) casual players who want to grind things out, because that's how they get enjoyment, even though to a serious player it's like pulling teeth.
The two groups are completely incompatible. The best solution is really a free or $1 unlock key to unlock all the MP content, and let the casuals grind it out happily without getting in the way of the serious players.
The equivalent would be making unlocking story mode require 100 online ranked wins.
Gokurakumaru
Banned
It's not my only issue with it (my biggest gripe is the lack of utility you get with DLC when playing with or lending the game to friends), but it's the most black and white measure I have when deciding to purchase the game or not. Is it worth the $90 it will cost me? I happily ignored costumes in SFIV because some stranger online using a costume I don't own doesn't handicap me or mess up tier lists.
And the biggest thing with "Super SF2" and their ilk was you weren't forced onto the new version except in arcades where the price of entry was the same irrespective of the version you played. There was no online scene forcing you to play with new characters. And most importantly of all, if you did choose to upgrade your home version you could wait for a price drop. Something Capcom seems reluctant to do with DLC.
So, would a simple solution for Capcom be to offer an option to opt out of playing against DLC characters?
This post reminds me how massively dumb Capcom was to eliminate the option to watch all the viewed ending. It was great to watch all these unlocked endings in SFIV (especially Dan's
) but then they threw it all in the trashes for SSFIV.I mean, why deleting something that is already done/coded? I'd love to watch all the endings in SFxTK.
Ivan A Nguyen
Member
I thought about starting a new thread asking if unlock codes for on disk content was false advertising. I think it falls under Undefined terms:
To me, DLC means Down Loadable Content. If it is an unlock, then it's an improper use of the word DLC.
For those who think the content of SFxT is extra, it isn't. It was simply cut from the game. The makers want to pay for certification on platforms only once, so they make the entire game first and get it authorized by Microsoft and Sony so the money that they rake in from "DLC" is pure profit.
For a correct look at how the term DLC should be used, see Mass Effect 3's CE DLC. The mission and character are both in a sizeable download and it was planed for release at launch. Could have been included on the disk, but they didn't.
Wikipedia said:
To me, DLC means Down Loadable Content. If it is an unlock, then it's an improper use of the word DLC.
For those who think the content of SFxT is extra, it isn't. It was simply cut from the game. The makers want to pay for certification on platforms only once, so they make the entire game first and get it authorized by Microsoft and Sony so the money that they rake in from "DLC" is pure profit.
For a correct look at how the term DLC should be used, see Mass Effect 3's CE DLC. The mission and character are both in a sizeable download and it was planed for release at launch. Could have been included on the disk, but they didn't.
Ivan A Nguyen
Member
I don't like how the issue people have is the location of the DLC. It doesn't matter where it is. If Capcom took the content out and made the player download it in it's entirety it would be the same situation except this specific argument wouldn't happen.
It's all in your mind.
It's all in your mind.
You need to understand that making the DLC content takes time. Employee time. Time that would otherwise be spent on other projects, making other games and content. That is not free time for a company. The DLC characters do not magically make themselves. By making any content, it takes away time that would be spent on other projects, which costs a company. No one seems to get this and refuses to accept this simple concept.
You are wrong in that it needs to be purchased again, because it was never paid for by the customer in the first place. You might want it to be that way, but it was never a part of the core product you bought.
And even if they are "holding it back", so what? It's their labor that went into it. It's their product. They can bundle and sell it however they want. Just because it was done during the same process does not mean they owe it to you. All you have the right to do is determine if their product package they are offering to you is worth it, and decide if you want to buy it. If you think the core package is a bad deal, and that they should have included more characters to make it a worthwhile value, that's totally your right. However, you never, ever had the right or owned anything they made before launch if it wasn't intended to be part of the package they were selling.
Does it feel like they're dangling a carrot in front of your face. Yeah, totally. But it's still their carrot until you pay for it.
Flying Wonkey
Member
Or simply having all characters unlocked for multiplayer. You don't need an unlock key... Just common sense.
I enjoy the single player unlocks. Make my unlocks characters available in story mode then we all win. Also works for stuff like ending movies, alternate costumes, etc.
Ploid 3.0
Member
If they didn't focus on having the dlc ready while rushing out the game freeing up time to make the game better first it would have been nice. From the sound of it this game seems just as rushed as MVC3 to meet a deadline for their fiscal thing. Then this Fall, like UMVC3, they start selling $60+ worth of content in pieces. If you want to be a great player and familiar with everything you may need to buy every character, gems, and the gem slot upgrade.
This game is a mess, and will be a huge mess when they start selling the keys. If they were to allow people to opt out of playing against people with dlc it would lower the value of it all. They don't want that. Heck I would like to opt out of wesker matches on UMVC3, that's another situation though.
Ivan A Nguyen
Member
You are skipping the fundamental reason behind putting the DLC on the disk. It isn't compatibility, it's money.
A publisher has to go though a submission process to get a game on a console. The same goes for "real" DLC , patches, and anything else they want to add to the game. So each time a company wants to put out a patch for a game, it cost them money to submit it to the platform holder, in this case lets say Sony.
For "real" DLC aka I'm going to DL megabits to a gigabit of info to add to my game, it cost money to get it tested by Sony before it can be sold online. That's assuming it passes testing on the first couple of trys before they have to buy more chances at submitting.
This is not what Capcom is doing. Capcom develops the full game, locks away portions behind an online unlock code, and then submits the game to Sony. If it passes, then good for Capcom, because they don't have to pay for testing and extra submissions on "real" DLC.
But what is good for Capcom is bad for the player. Capcom is double charging it's players for the full game. It does not cost them any extra for the DLC to be released into the wild, because it already passed submission. DLC is staggered to keep people from trading in their game.
How this isn't widely known is beyond me.
I feel like this entire thread misses the point. Yeah, on-disc DLC is shit. But the bigger concern is how entire characters in a competitive game are locked behind a pay wall. Splitting the playerbase is always a bad idea for people who actually play the game. Shareholders and executives are rarely smart enough to realize that releasing this stuff for free can actually help their bottom line in the end.
TheNatural
My Member!
It's unlocked shit that wasn't even licensed to be in the game. A Smackdown game had Ultimate Warrior made and ready in the game, then they lost the rights to use him, but was still in the game code. A gameshark unlocked that. Why wouldn't it be illegal - it's just unlocking things on the disc ITSELF. Hell an old PSONE Tiger Woods game in some burns for some reason had an old episode of South Park on the disc that you could put in your PC and play.
There's nothing illegal about accessing whats on a disc by a cheat device. It's just this piece of shit companies want you to pay for what's already made and on the disc to line their pockets. Years ago, it would be more bang for your buck, now it's just finding a new way to fuck joe consumer over. I hope it bites Capcom in the ass.
Just buy the Street Fighter and Friends Mega Hyper Combo Compilation for the Xbox 1080.
That's not even what I'm speaking to. Not talking about the location of storage. Of course putting in on disc saves them money too. Just saying that any time spent making content effectively costs a company money, and its their choice to determine if its an accessible part of the package you pay $60 for. It's not "free" and we don't have the right to it.
Really, the big mistake here is that Capcom assumed that if people hacked the disc and found the DLC, they'd be able to think critically about the reality of producing such content and what that entails, and make an informed decision on value. They should have taken the hit on bandwidth costs and submission costs for this DLC, and kept it secret on their computers. That way in 5 months people would be screaming for DLC, they'd release it, people would download a huge patch, they'd somehow feel all warm and fuzzy for that reason and be happy they're getting more content.
A lot of people want more content in their game, like their favorite character. Look at everyone screaming for UMvC3 DLC. The thing is content created during development is the most effective way for a business to do this. Shareholders and executives are probably smarter than you give them credit for. For a fighting game characters are pretty much the content. Giving 12 characters away for such content that requires a lot of employee time to create for "free" is probably not a smart move. Things like colors, sure. I'm not saying smart=good or fun for consumers, btw.
shaowebb
Member
Oh snap! lol
There are many examples even beyond Valve that show how free content updates can bring in significant post-release revenue without causing half of the playerbase to resent you. PC devs have known this for ages and iOS developers are figuring this out.
Of course, we're dealing with traditionally anti-consumer console owners whose update policies discourage this sort of thing so I guess the point is moot.
I don't like the idea of selling things that are finished at launch and on the disc on their own. Having characters locked away is like having levels hidden.
I'll get this game if the characters are unlocked for the Vita version. If they're DLC for Vita, I'll skip this. I like 3d fighters better, anyway.
I'll get this game if the characters are unlocked for the Vita version. If they're DLC for Vita, I'll skip this. I like 3d fighters better, anyway.
ZeroCypher
Member
I hate capcom. They love to troll us.
crimzonflame
Member
If the 12 characters were available for free, do you think Capcom would sell more copies of this game, and make more money then they would with DLC purchases in the fall?
I honestly think so.
I honestly think so.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Maybe companies like Capcom should allow the tiny tournament community to direct purchase a special edition verison with all characters unlocked, and versus mode only.
Everyone else can simply buy the retail version and enjoy all of it's modes.
IC_Champion
Member
Agreed.