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Dota 2 Beta Thread: [Brewmaster]

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IceMarker

Member
So why did half of hongaf get blasted off the forums like Team Rocket?

Long story, but the gist of it is that they have way too much fun, to the point where drama spills onto GAF from Mumble. Monitoring the thread has been amusing.

Guess I'm one of the only surviving members who actually plays HoN every day, even if it's mostly all mid games.
 

speedpop

Has problems recognising girls
Links to items of interest for beginners should be a necessity. Despite what some may crow from the bleachers, an online game's longevity and competitive viability comes from the community simplifying the game down for those who have the courage to say "I'm not good at this, I need help. Any advice?"

I haven't touched Dota 2 yet but I've already watched a handful of Purge's videos and checked the wiki entries for the basics of basics, as well as watch whatever matches I can on joinDOTA's youtube page. I'll continue reading throughout this thread and the next because ideally a person needs as many experiences available, both individually and externally, to create their own personal manual. The only other thing I need to do is eventually hit that play button and attempt to put the teachings to use. I also think a friendly statement of "you might suck at first but allow your passion of wanting to get better at the game to fuel the desire to keep at it, making sure that you are constantly learning as you go" would be ideal.
 

Tenck

Member
Problem with Purge's videos sometimes is that they take way too long to get to the point.

The gold spending one is the epitome of examples.
 

Stahsky

A passionate embrace, a beautiful memory lingers.
Is 13 minutes too long for Medal/Vlad/Rosh on Lycan? I've been able to get that multiple times. Uninterupted, though. Not ideal by any means, but I'm just curious how quick someone can get gear when left alone in the jungle.


While on the subject of jungling. How do you do it on Naix? I was able to get basher and treads by 16 minutes, but that seems way too long. I rarely play naix, though. So I'm not sure how to build/skill for the jungle phase.



To be honest, aside from Enigma and Prophet, I'm really not too sure what is the most effective way to jungle. I've been sticking to a: If Troll or Satry, kill early, if anything else, straight to easy camp. I do this 'till about level 3, then I can move onto bigger game. Is this about right? I feel like I'm doing something wrong, but I'm not too sure what.
 

Tenck

Member
Is 13 minutes too long for Medal/Vlad/Rosh on Lycan? I've been able to get that multiple times. Uninterupted, though. Not ideal by any means, but I'm just curious how quick someone can get gear when left alone in the jungle.


While on the subject of jungling. How do you do it on Naix? I was able to get basher and treads by 16 minutes, but that seems way too long. I rarely play naix, though. So I'm not sure how to build/skill for the jungle phase.



To be honest, aside from Enigma and Prophet, I'm really not too sure what is the most effective way to jungle. I've been sticking to a: If Troll or Satry, kill early, if anything else, straight to easy camp. I do this 'till about level 3, then I can move onto bigger game. Is this about right? I feel like I'm doing something wrong, but I'm not too sure what.

13 minutes sounds about right for Vlads and a medal. I know that if you do well in the jungle, you can get around 2K gold in 8 minutes.

And aren't you supposed to be going Armlet first on Naix? I always do that.

Edit: Also, for some fast jungling I tend to go to bottom or top lane till I reach level 3 or 4, then hop in the jungle. Makes it easier to jungle and it's quite fast too. No worrying too much about your health or mana (unless you are being harassed).
 

Stahsky

A passionate embrace, a beautiful memory lingers.
Oh, probably. I just got basher for no reason in particular


Edit: Yeah, I've done that before too. I was more thinking about a pure jungle rotation. But maybe that just isn't needed. Hmm. Well, guess I'll start playing LD and figuring him out now. Haven't touched him yet!
 

Ikuu

Had his dog run over by Blizzard's CEO
Edit: Also, for some fast jungling I tend to go to bottom or top lane till I reach level 3 or 4, then hop in the jungle. Makes it easier to jungle and it's quite fast too. No worrying too much about your health or mana (unless you are being harassed).

Don't do this. This just puts your solo behind in levels and when you leave they're going to have a much harder time.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Why jungle with Naix?

It's like jungling with BS. Sure they can do it, and it's safe, but they're probably better off in lane.
 

Stahsky

A passionate embrace, a beautiful memory lingers.
Why jungle with Naix?

It's like jungling with BS. Sure they can do it, and it's safe, but they're probably better off in lane.



I was just trying to see who else could pull it off well enough. But it felt sort of slow with naix.

I rarely every play anything that woods it up, so I'm just trying out new stuff.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Max feast and go for the big mobs. Since your life steal functions as a percentage of your target's health, the bigger the target the more life you steal.

And make sure to leash them so you can get in extra hits without retaliation.
 

Torraz

Member
Just, accidentally, played my first game with real people. I thought I had clicked on a bot match, and was already wondering why it took several minutes longer than usual for the game to pop, but then I realized that I was in a pub match.

I took Lich since that was the only hero I was not ultra bad with (only pretty bad ;) ) and bought a courier and some observation wards. The first skill point, which I invested in ice shields, prevented my lane partner from being killed, I think. We managed to turn around and I nearly got first blood (lane mate got the killing blow), but I managed to finish of the other enemy. Anyways, the match proceeded and only once someone told me to change lanes/assist and they didn't even swear at me .... ;)... In any way, we ended up winning with me having the most assists and actually having pretty comparable (bit lower) stats than the team mates.

So thanks guys for the Lich recommendation and that was a truly exhilerating gaming experience for my first MOBA human vs human match in a few years.

However I had one problem near the end of the game. The enemy heroes kept turning invisible and tried to kill me. What could I do about that?

I saw a true-sight gem in the shop (but it was on a 6 min cooldown). Should I have gotten true sight wards?
 
Edit: Also, for some fast jungling I tend to go to bottom or top lane till I reach level 3 or 4, then hop in the jungle. Makes it easier to jungle and it's quite fast too. No worrying too much about your health or mana (unless you are being harassed).

Please never do this. The goal of having a jungler is so that 3 heroes are earning solo exp. The reason 2v1 is viable is because one of your solos is leveling twice as fast as the enemy heroes. Sitting there until level 2 is passable, but 3 or 4 is just mean. If you're choke-point jungling with naix, you should never have a problem with health, and you should definitely not have a problem with mana.

However I had one problem near the end of the game. The enemy heroes kept turning invisible and tried to kill me. What could I do about that?

I saw a true-sight gem in the shop (but it was on a 6 min cooldown). Should I have gotten true sight wards?
Buy 'Dust of Appearance' in the shop. It's a consumable item with 2 charges that will reveal any invis heroes around you for a small amount of time. It won't help you see them before they kill you, but it should allow your team to finish them off.
 

Archie

Second-rate Anihawk
Just, accidentally, played my first game with real people. I thought I had clicked on a bot match, and was already wondering why it took several minutes longer than usual for the game to pop, but then I realized that I was in a pub match.

I took Lich since that was the only hero I was not ultra bad with (only pretty bad ;) ) and bought a courier and some observation wards. The first skill point, which I invested in ice shields, prevented my lane partner from being killed, I think. We managed to turn around and I nearly got first blood (lane mate got the killing blow), but I managed to finish of the other enemy. Anyways, the match proceeded and only once someone told me to change lanes/assist and they didn't even swear at me .... ;)... In any way, we ended up winning with me having the most assists and actually having pretty comparable (bit lower) stats than the team mates.

So thanks guys for the Lich recommendation and that was a truly exhilerating gaming experience for my first MOBA human vs human match in a few years.

However I had one problem near the end of the game. The enemy heroes kept turning invisible and tried to kill me. What could I do about that?

I saw a true-sight gem in the shop (but it was on a 6 min cooldown). Should I have gotten true sight wards?

Grats on your first game. A few pointers:

When playing Lich, you should get Sacrifice at level 1, stay near the base tower and sacrifice the first creep that spawns. The reasons why you want to do this is to pull the creep wave closer to your tower and deny the enemy of extra XP/Gold. Be sure to constantly use Sacrifice and your nuke in the laning phase to harass the enemy.

I'm guessing you played against a Mirana. Her ultimate makes the team go invisible after a few seconds. There are several ways to counter this:

-Sentry Wards. 200g consumable that gives you true vision in a very small radius. If an invisible enemy moves outside of the ward's radius, you lose vision of them.

-Dust of Appearance. 180g consumable that has an active effect of revealing all invisible units in an AoE. It is a debuff that lasts 10(?) seconds.

-Gem of True Sight. 700g item that gives true vision to the holder in their normal field of view. It has a very large down side though: If the holder dies, the gem drops on the ground and anybody is able to pick it up or destroy it.

Each of those items has specific uses and you can't say one is best for any situation. Sentries are good against heroes who have a little area they like to farm in (i.e. Broodmother), and dust is good for heroes who are able to cast invis and run away (i.e. Riki, Bounty Hunter).
 

skasaha

Neo Member
um i only just got dota2 recently and am thus a total noob. i like playing support roles generally so i decided i like omniknight. do any of you have any tips/methods on his loadout and how to play him?

i've barely played 5 games at this point so yeah.

my friend recommends clinkz for beginners but i seem to just die a lot (or skeleton walk away with low hp) and not contributing much :\ what do you do when the enemy hero(es) in your lane can defeat you, how do you farm then?


too many questions, sorry for noob-ness, etc :p
 
um i only just got dota2 recently and am thus a total noob. i like playing support roles generally so i decided i like omniknight. do any of you have any tips/methods on his loadout and how to play him?

i've barely played 5 games at this point so yeah.

my friend recommends clinkz for beginners but i seem to just die a lot (or skeleton walk away with low hp) and not contributing much :\ what do you do when the enemy hero(es) in your lane can defeat you, how do you farm then?


too many questions, sorry for noob-ness, etc :p

The main thing on Omniknight early game is Soul Ring. The item works by swapping out a chunk of your health for a chunk of mana. For Omniknight, this is perfect, because you can just use the extra mana to heal yourself essentially for free.

Your choice to play support is good. Play Omniknight, Dazzle, Lich, or Lion. These are all pretty much self-sustained heroes who are super useful for their team and don't have to worry about last hits. When you get a better, you can graduate to more aggressive semi-supports, like Witch Doctor or Windrunner.

Don't play Clinkz, Riki, Bounty Hunter, Anti-Mage, Morphling, Faceless Void, Weaver or any other carries (pretty much every agi hero besides Venomancer). Their escape mechanisms may seem appealing, but as your team's carry, you need to be good at last-hitting and having good map awareness, which isn't a beginner's forte.
 
um i only just got dota2, recently and am thus a total noob. i like playing support roles generally so i decided i like omniknight. do any of you have any tips/methods on his loadout and how to play him?

i've barely played 5 games at this point so yeah.

my friend recommends clinkz for beginners but i seem to just die a lot (or skeleton walk away with low hp) and not contributing much :\ what do you do when the enemy hero(es) in your lane can defeat you, how do you farm then?


too many questions, sorry for noob-ness, etc :p

I'm no veteran myself, I've only been playing since March with just 30 wins on my belt, but Omni is one of my favourite heroes. Here's my two cents, at least from a noob perspective, of how to play him. I'm sure more experienced players can correct me where I might not be giving the best advice, but I've seen success at my skill level by playing him this way.

Omniknight is pretty fucking amazing, Omniscient-tier even (totally not hyperbole!) because he doesn't need a lot of farm (gold from last-hitting creeps and killing heroes) to be effective. When laning with your partner, let him get as many last-hits on creeps as he can and focus on keeping him alive. Start by purchasing the courier (or wards if someone else has bought the courier), a Sage's Mask, and Clarities. The sage's mask is important as your very first core item should be the Soul Ring; rush to get this ASAP as it's crucial for Omniknight to have mana to constantly use his Purification (get this as your lv1 ability).

Purification is an awesome spell because it heals the target and does damage to enemies around them. Use it as much as you can on your partner when he's surrounded by enemy creeps or heroes. For example if your partner is fighting with an enemy hero, they may not realize that by fighting close to him you can do a TON of damage while healing your partner at the same time. So if your hero and the enemy hero are both melee, your partner is at a huge advantage by having Omniknight to back him up. If the opponents in your lane are being too aggressive, punish them for it by supporting your hero and using Purification as much as possible. You guys can pull off the first blood and some easy early kills this way without overexerting yourselves. Prioritize your lane partner over your own health; if you die early it's not good, but keeping the carry you're supporting healthy and in-lane is super important.

Put your level 2 into Degen Aura and max Purification ASAP as it's his best skill. Repel is very good but not crucial for early game unless you and your partner are doing a lot of fighting with other heroes. I'd normally recommend it around level 5 or 6.

Once you have your soul ring, get the manaboots (Arcane) as this just makes your ability to spam Purification even better. Omniknight is a STR support hero which is pretty unique and makes him very tanky, which is very cool for a support. He can take a lot of damage and actually dish out quite a bit. I recommend Mekanism and Skull Basher as your next two core items. Get the Meka first if you're engaging in a lot of team fights; this will help your team survive battles even more as it has a very good AOE heal and aura, and you've definitely got enough mana to use it as much as possible. Between Purification, Repel, Degen Aura, Mekanism, and Guardian Angel, any team rolling with Omniknight is pretty much a fucking brick wall of death. The Skull Basher will add to your own effectiveness mid-late game. Because of Purification Omni is not only a great support, but is really good at lane pushing. If your team is busy farming and ganking and you've got a lane being taken over by enemy creeps, he can easily warp over to said lane and spam Purification to push the waves back; at this point in the game you'll one-shot Ranged Creeps with it and can clean up the Melees very fast with your increased damage from the Skull Basher.

With these items on you, you're pretty much a badass for support, laning and survivability. You've been sacrificing most of your farm throughout the game for your carries to farm (and by buying wards. As a support it is your duty to supply your team with wards constantly so if no one else is doing it, the responsibility lies with you) so you shouldn't be expected to be rich at the late-game, but if you can afford luxury items I'd say go with a Sheepstick (Scythe of Vyse) to add some disabling to your team, or Shiva's Guard which will slow down your opponents even more on top of your Degen Aura, making them far less effective in stopping your carries. Make sure you have your Ultimate ready to pop for teamfights as it will turn the tide of battle. Make sure to cast Repel on your main carry prior to using your Ultimate, as he'll be completely invulnerable to most, if not all, types of damage your opponents can dish out for about 7 seconds; easily enough time to absolutely destroy the enemy team. Be wary though: if you cast Repel on a teammate or yourself, you cannot use Purification on them to heal for the duration, so if they're getting low on health make sure to heal them up before casting Repel.

Omniknight is a badass who I don't see played much in pubs, so if you get really good with him you can be a very unique support who will turn the tide of battle often and allow your teammates to decimate your enemies with minimal losses. While he is very strong, don't worry about getting too many kills with Omni yet. Just focus on improving your playstyle to keep your teammates healthy and destructive.
 

skasaha

Neo Member
wow thanks for the awesome replies! i guess i need to get the basics down first though, because i die too much to buy anything at all :X (i don't recall my gold ever crossing 1500, so i've never bought a mekansm even though the guides i read say to)

i'll go practice on the bots :p tips for noobs are still very welcome.

thanks so much again xD
 

JustinBB7

Member
wow thanks for the awesome replies! i guess i need to get the basics down first though, because i die too much to buy anything at all :X (i don't recall my gold ever crossing 1500, so i've never bought a mekansm even though the guides i read say to)

i'll go practice on the bots :p tips for noobs are still very welcome.

thanks so much again xD

You can buy the mek in seperate parts, if you click on it you can see what it's made from, if you drag the mek to the empty black box above your items, it will make a sound and highlight every time you have enough gold to buy a part of it.
 
wow thanks for the awesome replies! i guess i need to get the basics down first though, because i die too much to buy anything at all :X (i don't recall my gold ever crossing 1500, so i've never bought a mekansm even though the guides i read say to)

i'll go practice on the bots :p tips for noobs are still very welcome.

thanks so much again xD

No problem. For basic mechanics I definitely recommend playing with bots. It's good for practicing last-hitting, denying and other things, as well as learning new heroes. First time or two you play a new hero, definitely do not jump into a public game as it's probably just going to aggrivate your teammates. What I usually do is I'll do a private bot game the very first time I'm playing a hero so I can learn their abilities and check out some good item builds, then the second time I'll play a co-op bot match so you can learn how to apply that hero to a working team. If both those trials go well and you feel confident about your play, go ahead and hop into a public game so you can get some actual practice in.

Dying too much is the #1 reason for suckage among noobs. :) Don't worry too much about it but the key to preventing this is to never be too aggressive. Especially as a support hero, there is 0 reason for you to risk death to try and get an early kill in. Early kills are overrated - they're good if the enemy hero is putting themselves at risk and getting to aggressive and sloppy, but you never want to be the one doing that, feeding the opponent, and inconveniencing the rest of your team. As Omniknight or any other support hero, you're going to be much better off hanging back, playing it safe, and staying alive (and keeping your carry alive), rather than rushing into the opponent's tower headfirst and getting killed over and over again. Even without focusing on last-hits, you'll get your soul ring and your arcane boots very quickly if you just stay in lane and don't die.
 
I'm no veteran myself, I've only been playing since March with just 30 wins on my belt, but Omni is one of my favourite heroes. Here's my two cents, at least from a noob perspective, of how to play him. I'm sure more experienced players can correct me where I might not be giving the best advice, but I've seen success at my skill level by playing him this way.

Omniknight is pretty fucking amazing, Omniscient-tier even (totally not hyperbole!) because he doesn't need a lot of farm (gold from last-hitting creeps and killing heroes) to be effective. When laning with your partner, let him get as many last-hits on creeps as he can and focus on keeping him alive. Start by purchasing the courier (or wards if someone else has bought the courier), a Sage's Mask, and Clarities. The sage's mask is important as your very first core item should be the Soul Ring; rush to get this ASAP as it's crucial for Omniknight to have mana to constantly use his Purification (get this as your lv1 ability).

Purification is an awesome spell because it heals the target and does damage to enemies around them. Use it as much as you can on your partner when he's surrounded by enemy creeps or heroes. For example if your partner is fighting with an enemy hero, they may not realize that by fighting close to him you can do a TON of damage while healing your partner at the same time. So if your hero and the enemy hero are both melee, your partner is at a huge advantage by having Omniknight to back him up. If the opponents in your lane are being too aggressive, punish them for it by supporting your hero and using Purification as much as possible. You guys can pull off the first blood and some easy early kills this way without overexerting yourselves. Prioritize your lane partner over your own health; if you die early it's not good, but keeping the carry you're supporting healthy and in-lane is super important.

Put your level 2 into Degen Aura and max Purification ASAP as it's his best skill. Repel is very good but not crucial for early game unless you and your partner are doing a lot of fighting with other heroes. I'd normally recommend it around level 5 or 6.

Once you have your soul ring, get the manaboots (Arcane) as this just makes your ability to spam Purification even better. Omniknight is a STR support hero which is pretty unique and makes him very tanky, which is very cool for a support. He can take a lot of damage and actually dish out quite a bit. I recommend Mekanism and Skull Basher as your next two core items. Get the Meka first if you're engaging in a lot of team fights; this will help your team survive battles even more as it has a very good AOE heal and aura, and you've definitely got enough mana to use it as much as possible. Between Purification, Repel, Degen Aura, Mekanism, and Guardian Angel, any team rolling with Omniknight is pretty much a fucking brick wall of death. The Skull Basher will add to your own effectiveness mid-late game. Because of Purification Omni is not only a great support, but is really good at lane pushing. If your team is busy farming and ganking and you've got a lane being taken over by enemy creeps, he can easily warp over to said lane and spam Purification to push the waves back; at this point in the game you'll one-shot Ranged Creeps with it and can clean up the Melees very fast with your increased damage from the Skull Basher.

With these items on you, you're pretty much a badass for support, laning and survivability. You've been sacrificing most of your farm throughout the game for your carries to farm (and by buying wards. As a support it is your duty to supply your team with wards constantly so if no one else is doing it, the responsibility lies with you) so you shouldn't be expected to be rich at the late-game, but if you can afford luxury items I'd say go with a Sheepstick (Scythe of Vyse) to add some disabling to your team, or Shiva's Guard which will slow down your opponents even more on top of your Degen Aura, making them far less effective in stopping your carries. Make sure you have your Ultimate ready to pop for teamfights as it will turn the tide of battle. Make sure to cast Repel on your main carry prior to using your Ultimate, as he'll be completely invulnerable to most, if not all, types of damage your opponents can dish out for about 7 seconds; easily enough time to absolutely destroy the enemy team. Be wary though: if you cast Repel on a teammate or yourself, you cannot use Purification on them to heal for the duration, so if they're getting low on health make sure to heal them up before casting Repel.

Omniknight is a badass who I don't see played much in pubs, so if you get really good with him you can be a very unique support who will turn the tide of battle often and allow your teammates to decimate your enemies with minimal losses. While he is very strong, don't worry about getting too many kills with Omni yet. Just focus on improving your playstyle to keep your teammates healthy and destructive.

Your post makes me want to play Omniknight....I've seen a good Omni play before as well as a bad one too so he never really appealed to me.
 
Any thoughts on what else needs to be in the OT (if anything)?

A guide to the jargon would help. What the hell is a carry or BKB or tri-lane, for instance?

A basic flowchart of game phases telling new players what they should be doing right off. Do I focus 100% on killing towers, or do I try to kill the other players, or do I just try to kill enemy creeps?

Some basic info on items would be nice, especially essentials like boots, tangos, wards, TP scrolls, magic sticks, etc.

Basically, make the game comprehensible for people brought in from the rest of "mainstream PC gaming."
 
If you want a Noob Friendly hero I suggest

Tide Hunter - He has the most useful ultimate in the game and he is good no matter how good you are at the game. He is basically the perfect hero to start with. He doesn't need that many items and he really only needs two core items Blink Dagger and Arcane Boots.

Also Carry Tide is Best Tide
 
So I'm currently working on the OT2 and have been thinking about how to approach it. I figure most people look at the OP of this thread once and never touch it again, and newbies also never want to browse through that massive list for information. I think I'll be throwing out a lot of it and compressing the thread into something viewable in three to five mouse scrolls to make things easier on the viewer. Basically streamlining the whole thing.

Information that will be in the OT2 OP:
1. Huge emphasis on helping newbies with easy access to guides, hero choices, and where to start (as I think the players new to the beta are most likely to look to the OP for help). I'll also be correcting what heroes belong in what category.
2. Spotlight on whoever is the newest hero

Any thoughts on what else needs to be in the OT (if anything)?

Some suggestions.

Start with this video - DOTA 2 in 4 min- This will cover objectives and the general layout/mechanics of the map.

The often quoted - Welcome to DOTA - You Suck guide should also be good prerequisite reading as well.

From there, more Purge stuff...specifically his learn about DOTA vids (for starters)

How to Spend your Starting Gold

Purge Gives an Item Summary- Goes through shop layout and items one by one

Purge Talks Trilane- You most likely won't ever trilane as a beginner but this video explains some ganking positions as well as proper areas to stack/pull during the laning phase (two things that you will be doing no matter what)

Purge Talks Lanes- How the laning phase works

and his Purge plays as (insert hero here) series on how to specifically play certain heroes.
 
If you want a Noob Friendly hero I suggest

Tide Hunter - He has the most useful ultimate in the game and he is good no matter how good you are at the game. He is basically the perfect hero to start with. He doesn't need that many items and he really only needs two core items Blink Dagger and Arcane Boots.

Also Carry Tide is Best Tide

Tide is a very acquired taste.

Can take awhile to get good with him. Can feel very frustrating as a beginner with him.
 
Think I've had to play against him in 9 out of the 10 last games I played, lost most of them because of his bullshit :p

9 out of 10 pubs you've played with are smart; he's awesome!

And yeah I'll play with anyone, just be warned I'm still learning a lot and I'm still pretty low-level. :)

I play Windrunner, Omniknight, Dragon Knight, Enchantress, Nature's Prophet, Axe and Leshrac...still many heroes to learn!

Steam ID: adnaan_c
 
How would he be frustrating? As a beginner (obviously there's more to it then that), your job is to basically run in a pop the ulti. Not to mention he's very survivable.

I dunno. I played him once and didn't enjoy the experience at all.

His offense felt so limited outside of the ult. Gave me a very empty/bored feeling. I've not played him since. I'd rather play Lich as a starter. Much more to do and you feel more involved.

Oh and I played against my first ethereal morph. We were destroying their team but Morph quietly farmed it up and basically one-shot the rest of the team for the remainder of the game. Incredibly annoying.
 
So I'm currently working on the OT2 and have been thinking about how to approach it. I figure most people look at the OP of this thread once and never touch it again, and newbies also never want to browse through that massive list for information. I think I'll be throwing out a lot of it and compressing the thread into something viewable in three to five mouse scrolls to make things easier on the viewer. Basically streamlining the whole thing.

Information that will be in the OT2 OP:
1. Huge emphasis on helping newbies with easy access to guides, hero choices, and where to start (as I think the players new to the beta are most likely to look to the OP for help). I'll also be correcting what heroes belong in what category.
2. Spotlight on whoever is the newest hero

Any thoughts on what else needs to be in the OT (if anything)?

Number one rule: Don't bother.

No one ever reads the OP, anyway. They ask questions already answered there all the time. It's a waste of effort and time.

The only caveat to that rule is that it does give you a convenient place to link people when they ask a question, but then you kind of need to have a single post per possible topic. Better to just link them to some already well-known guide or whatever.
 

Guesong

Member
Number one rule: Don't bother.

No one ever reads the OP, anyway. They ask questions already answered there all the time. It's a waste of effort and time.

The only caveat to that rule is that it does give you a convenient place to link people when they ask a question, but then you kind of need to have a single post per possible topic. Better to just link them to some already well-known guide or whatever.

I second. Alot of questions that were consistently asked through the thread were answered in the OP. No one reads them.

My take on it would basically be a big fat bolded link to 2-3 newbies guides. Don't bother with the rest.

Not true, I read through the OP and used a lot of the resources listed there when I first got my invite.

I applaud you. But clearly you're amongst the minority in that regard.
 

Risible

Member
I dunno. I played him once and didn't enjoy the experience at all.

His offense felt so limited outside of the ult. Gave me a very empty/bored feeling. I've not played him since. I'd rather play Lich as a starter. Much more to do and you feel more involved.

Oh and I played against my first ethereal morph. We were destroying their team but Morph quietly farmed it up and basically one-shot the rest of the team for the remainder of the game. Incredibly annoying.

A big problem is his mana pool. You generally have enough mana to pop the ulti and then Gush. Arcane Boots helps with his mana problems. Other than that he's not a big killer, he's an initiator, so he gets lots of Assists.
 
I dunno. I played him once and didn't enjoy the experience at all.

His offense felt so limited outside of the ult. Gave me a very empty/bored feeling. I've not played him since. I'd rather play Lich as a starter. Much more to do and you feel more involved.

Oh and I played against my first ethereal morph. We were destroying their team but Morph quietly farmed it up and basically one-shot the rest of the team for the remainder of the game. Incredibly annoying.

I feel the same way about Lich TBH. I know he's got a ton of utility (Frost armor is really underrated late game) but I always felt like an ancillary participant in the battle late game. With Tide, you're able to be at the front of the fight due to his inherent tankiness..I level anchor smash first before kraken shell so that I can do more than just Ravage and gush in combat.
 
Number one rule: Don't bother.

No one ever reads the OP, anyway. They ask questions already answered there all the time. It's a waste of effort and time.

The only caveat to that rule is that it does give you a convenient place to link people when they ask a question, but then you kind of need to have a single post per possible topic. Better to just link them to some already well-known guide or whatever.

Just because some people don't read the OP doesn't mean nobody does. I for one combed through it. But at the same time I had specific questions as well that weren't covered by it/needed a more thorough explanation. It's well worth the time and effort.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Tide is actually viable as semi-carry.

Most people just don't do it.
 

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
Sample of streamlining (click on picture to access guide)


Maybe I could slice up the carry section into subsections of what kinds of carries they are as well.

Are you going to have each character under just one Category, or put them in all Applicable ones? I would like seeing little sections for some of the subclasses of Supports, like "Pure Support"/Baby Sitters, Disable Supports, and Push Supports?


A little section on guidelines of how to spend your starting gold would likely be good too.
 

Hylian7

Member
Pubs are such a mixed bag. I hate how in most of them people don't discuss their picks beforehand. The entire other team had picked and ended up with Alchemist, Riki, Lesharc, Crystal Maiden, and Lone Druid. Four of our team members picked and there was still one left that had not. Our team so far was Pudge (me), Sniper, Storm Spirit, and Clinkz. The other guy was saying "Gondar?" We were all saying "No, not Gondar, Tidehunter would be a better choice."

He still picks Bounty Hunter. We would have had the upper hand if we had Tidehunter in that match. :/
 
Yes, I hate Gondar players so much because they always pick him at the worst time.

TRUE STORY:

Last night I hop in a game with 2 of my friends. One of them just started playing yesterday so already we were at a disadvantage. One of the randoms picks Riki first, my new friend chooses Skeleton King. My other friend says he'll probably go Lich or Tinker depending on the other random's pick. The random guy chooses Windrunner, the enemy gets a Slardar, my friend goes Lich and I go Dragon Knight. The Windrunner random proceeds to REPICK BOUNTY HUNTER who he says is his best hero. He goes 0-9 in the first half of the game. My new friend and the Riki are sucking ass the whole time too, but I had zero desire to play that game the moment that asshole re-picked.

So glad a ton of invites went out in the last week, now most of my interested friends have the game and I don't have to play nearly as many solo MM games.
 
Tide is actually viable as semi-carry.

Most people just don't do it.

How do you play Tide as a semi carry (items/builds)? I figure you max out anchor smash and gush first (taking ulti's at the usual levels) but his attack speed/damage (unless I'm mistaken) is less than desireable...
 

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
Put your level 2 into Degen Aura and max Purification ASAP as it's his best skill. Repel is very good but not crucial for early game unless you and your partner are doing a lot of fighting with other heroes. I'd normally recommend it around level 5 or 6.

My personal way to play Omniknight is to usually get a level in Repel at level 2. In fact, if you are laning against silencer, you really should get it level 1. He casts curse, repel your ally. It is also great for disarming ganks from mid. If I get stuck in a Solo Top/Bottom, I will skip Degen for a while, and simply dump points into stats.

Some situational items I like picking up on him is an Orb of Venom, and a Heaven's Halberd.
 

Hylian7

Member
How do you play Tide as a semi carry (items/builds)? I figure you max out anchor smash and gush first (taking ulti's at the usual levels) but his attack speed/damage (unless I'm mistaken) is less than desireable...

I agree, I'm having a hard time seeing a Tide semi-carry. That sounds like trying to play Omniknight as a carry.
 

kneePat

Member
Omniknight is pretty fucking amazing, Omniscient-tier even (totally not hyperbole!) because he doesn't need a lot of farm (gold from last-hitting creeps and killing heroes) to be effective. When laning with your partner, let him get as many last-hits on creeps as he can and focus on keeping him alive. Start by purchasing the courier (or wards if someone else has bought the courier), a Sage's Mask, and Clarities. The sage's mask is important as your very first core item should be the Soul Ring; rush to get this ASAP as it's crucial for Omniknight to have mana to constantly use his Purification (get this as your lv1 ability).

While soul ring is ok, I think arcanes are a more crucial item on omni and if your farm isn't good skip the soul ring to get to arcanes earlier.

Use it as much as you can on your partner when he's surrounded by enemy creeps or heroes.

Dont use it to on your partner when he's surrounded by creeps early, you'll take his farm.

Put your level 2 into Degen Aura and max Purification ASAP as it's his best skill. Repel is very good but not crucial for early game unless you and your partner are doing a lot of fighting with other heroes. I'd normally recommend it around level 5 or 6.

No this is not good. Don't skip repel, ever, even if you're going this gank heavy skill build GET ONE IN REPEL. (preferably one of your first two) And at level 6 you should be getting your ult, not repel.

Support: by lvl 9, you should have heal lvl 4, repel lvl 3, and degen lvl 1, (then I like to max degen to 4 first, also get repel to 2 before touching degen)

Gank: by lvl 9, you can have heal lvl 4, repel lvl 1, and degen lvl 3, (make sure you skill repel EARLY still)

I recommend Mekanism and Skull Basher as your next two core items. Get the Meka first if you're engaging in a lot of team fights; this will help your team survive battles even more as it has a very good AOE heal and aura, and you've definitely got enough mana to use it as much as possible.

Yo you must play a manly omniknight. Skip the basher if your playing a strict support and even as a ganking omni there are better items. I also recommend drums of endurance, with degen aura its too good.

Omniknight is a badass who I don't see played much in pubs, so if you get really good with him you can be a very unique support who will turn the tide of battle often and allow your teammates to decimate your enemies with minimal losses. While he is very strong, don't worry about getting too many kills with Omni yet. Just focus on improving your playstyle to keep your teammates healthy and destructive.

All in all, good write up.
 
Tide is actually viable as semi-carry.

Most people just don't do it.

Yeah, but semi-carry as in buying utility items, not actual carry items. Blink, Pipe, Drums, Refresher, Veil of Discord, maybe a Heaven's Halberd (disarming the enemy carry is awesome). I've never seen Tide built as an actual carry doing melee DPS in any sort of serious game. I never tried it either, so I can't really comment on how good it is.
 
My personal way to play Omniknight is to usually get a level in Repel at level 2. In fact, if you are laning against silencer, you really should get it level 1. He casts curse, repel your ally. It is also great for disarming ganks from mid. If I get stuck in a Solo Top/Bottom, I will skip Degen for a while, and simply dump points into stats.

Some situational items I like picking up on him is an Orb of Venom, and a Heaven's Halberd.

Good to know. I'm definitely not saying that Repel isn't viable as your level 2. If you and your lane partner are up against any hero that's spamming spells it's definitely going to need to be a priority.

Most of my experience with Omni is just supporting a hard carry at top or bottom though, with little risk involved against a rarely played hero like Silencer (in low-skill pubs, at least) and very few early ganks. At beginner level I've found that level 2 Repel usually ends up being a waste, but like his Ultimate it seems like it really depends on how the early game is going. Depending on the team rosters I will definitely need to do this when necessary.


Awesome, thanks! Like I said, I'm no expert so both you guys are definitely helpful in refining my own play.
 

Sibylus

Banned
mtw/ww merger went through, and (perhaps unsurprisingly) synderen is the only member of the former to remain. I've been watching some of their practice games against Infused, they're looking pretty well synchronized.
 
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