-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Lupin III - "The Woman Called Fujiko Mine" |OT| HARD & DANGEROUS
- Thread starter Lafiel
- Start date
- Status
checkeredknight
Member
The ending didn't bug me that much.
I thought he simply cut her clothes off at first, which seemed a little weird. To see the belt there was actually kind of cool, and typical Fujiko. Nudity like that doesn't bother me as much; it's just stuff like in the first episode where she is randomly topless for 70% of the screen time that bugs me.
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
She wasn't being "randomly topless" in the first episode. The first episode just happened to take place in a context where Fujiko, still young and relatively-inexperienced, got herself into a situation where she could use her natural assets to her advantage. It's only when Lupin arrives and one-ups her with his own outlandish, albeit different style of breaking in and out that she begins to work on disguises more than revealing herself in front of power-drunk old men. I'd point to the writers for deciding to get all of the nudity and audacious perversion this series could have had by now out of the way, so that Fujiko can develop some sense of decency and go for more interesting treasures.
Regardless, I think the nudity has all made sense so far, and it's going to be more subtle as the series continues and we get into more Fujiko-centric scenarios.
Regardless, I think the nudity has all made sense so far, and it's going to be more subtle as the series continues and we get into more Fujiko-centric scenarios.
checkeredknight
Member
Yeah. I guess "randomly" wasn't the right word to use. Granted, there's a lot more boobage in the first episodes than any of the others we've seen yet.
Although I hear Zenigata gets some action in Episode 4. They seem to use the male gender symbol for private parts like with the manga...
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
Seems like
, so the new episode sounds like it'll be funny and dramatic at the same time. Fitting, because it'll have Fujicakes, Loopin, and Zennygotta all in one place.
Lupin manages to fake Zenigata dying, so that Oscar arrives just in time to see Zenigata flushed with fake blood, leading to "KEIBUUUUUUUUUUUUU"
Episode 4 made me realize that there's a fundamental problem with the series which prevents me from enjoying it as much as I could, and generally lowers my opinion of each episode, even if something somewhat interesting happens. It is not just an issue of the material being dry, or the fact that it is "darker" or more "serious" than what Lupin generally is. Those things can be good, and making a different sort of Lupin series is a bold direction. But for me, the main problem here is that Fujiko is a bad lead.
Not Fujiko the character, but rather, the Fujiko that Sayo Yamamoto has created for herself in this series. She is a poor lead and creates a shadow over the scenario which makes it very hard for me to care much for the story or the events each week. The Fujiko as depicted in this series is a woman who has very little drive. She does not really seem to love anything, and she has no attachments or strong emotions for any particular task, hobby, or outlook. Yet somehow, the audience is expected to buy into the idea that she comes up with elaborate disguises and plans to go after certain things out of her own desire. There is a disconnect because that desire isn't really there.
Without the rationale and drive, her character comes off as a sock puppet whose only role is to be at certain places at certain times so the plot as scripted can be carried out. Some of this actually seems deliberate, in the sense that many of the other characters are developed with specific personal tastes, goals, and generally show more passion than Fujiko in their roles. But this just makes me wonder why the show is made this way. The lack of direct interest or passion of the main character makes the narrative a huge drag to watch at times, and the way each episode conclusions leaves more of a "meh" feeling than any sense of actual accomplishment.
Is Sayo Yamamoto such a boring and cynical person that she actually deliberately directs works which makes the audience feel that the world and the lead character are boring and uninteresting things not worthy of attention or praise?
Not Fujiko the character, but rather, the Fujiko that Sayo Yamamoto has created for herself in this series. She is a poor lead and creates a shadow over the scenario which makes it very hard for me to care much for the story or the events each week. The Fujiko as depicted in this series is a woman who has very little drive. She does not really seem to love anything, and she has no attachments or strong emotions for any particular task, hobby, or outlook. Yet somehow, the audience is expected to buy into the idea that she comes up with elaborate disguises and plans to go after certain things out of her own desire. There is a disconnect because that desire isn't really there.
Without the rationale and drive, her character comes off as a sock puppet whose only role is to be at certain places at certain times so the plot as scripted can be carried out. Some of this actually seems deliberate, in the sense that many of the other characters are developed with specific personal tastes, goals, and generally show more passion than Fujiko in their roles. But this just makes me wonder why the show is made this way. The lack of direct interest or passion of the main character makes the narrative a huge drag to watch at times, and the way each episode conclusions leaves more of a "meh" feeling than any sense of actual accomplishment.
Is Sayo Yamamoto such a boring and cynical person that she actually deliberately directs works which makes the audience feel that the world and the lead character are boring and uninteresting things not worthy of attention or praise?
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
Part of me thinks that Fujiko has been relegated to a sort-of witness role for these episodes, in-so-far that she's still a newcomer to the underground world of thievery, a naive outsider who's trying to get in and yet still feels out of the loop. Whether this signals what is merely a slow, blossoming start for the kind of Fujiko that the production staff have conceptualized is up in the air at the moment, and maybe every little insight and all the groovy character development has to be experienced in full, from start to finish, to really understand the direction taken for Fujiko in this series. I'll have to admit it myself: she's not being a very good lead at the time being, generally being shown in the background both visually and in the script itself, whereas characters like Lupin, Zenigata, and Ciccolina have a charismatic presence on the screen, enjoy the benefits of expressive animation and the occasional sakuga keys, and feature prominently in these early stages of the anime. This episode is the last to really be used to introduce a regular into this modern interpretation of Green Jacket Lupin, what with the focused and ever-prepared Zenigata making an active effort to catch Lupin and exploit Fujiko and others in his attempt. As such, I'm cautiously-optimistic towards how this series will develop Fujiko's personality, backstory, and her relationship(s) with the rest of the franchise's iconic personalities and B-list sideshow folk.
I also think it's brusque and rather rude to pin the blame on Sayo Yamamoto entirely, as she has done expressive commentaries on the motivations of different female characters in the recent past, as Michiko to Hatchin showed rather well. We're not exactly too certain about the particulars of who's been most influential in deciding on Fujiko's interpretation and literary execution thus far, whether it be at the whimsy of one Mari Okada or some other notable staff member whom people are naturally going to use as scapegoats for their cynicism. Was Sayo Yamamoto even totally responsible for the going-ons in Michiko to Hatchin anyway? If someone's going to try and convince me that the average anime director gets a larger say in how a production is going to play out, anyway, I'll need some evidence, a convincingly-suitable argument, and probably sources to other viewpoints that have suggested the same in the past. But productions like these are not generally in the hands of an all-controlling anime auteur (and those kinds of individuals, Osamu Dezaki included, ultimately had to work with other people on shows anyway!).
More and more symbolism is starting to creep into the sides of storyboards, before-and-after eyecatches, and they appear in key parts of episodes too. All of this owl stuff and butterflies, even, are clearly pointing to a promise between the developers and the audience that something utterly-revelatory is going to go down, and so the expectations have already developed in the viewers' minds and, of course, I'm expecting some real development and initiative to come out of Fujiko's currently-empty shell. As it is, she really isn't in any position to be reputed throughout the land (though Lupin, keen and observant of his competition, was aware of her presence before she knew it). And, right now, I think that's perfectly fine given that these early episodes feel experimental, rough, and less focused on her juicy bits than they are on providing accessible and style-defining contrasts between her and the rest of the cast. So, though I can understand why you might think that Fujiko is clearly being undeveloped on a cynical basis, I've come to the conclusion that there is some effective reasoning behind all of this chicanery and relative non-focus on Fujiko, who's still stumbling 'round in the dark as if something keeps knocking her to the ground. Perhaps she's just young, too.
Much like what we've heard from the French animators involved with this production, anyway, everything seems up in the air regarding how the later episodes will play out, seeing as this series is taking a more development-based approach to a traditionally episodic progression of scenarios and characters. Putting new interpretations of classic personas into immediately-recognizable situations is an effective literary device, which can be used to ease watchers into the immersive, abstracted and colorful word that Fujiko and her kind of people live and interact in. I guess the only thing to be mad at, anyway, is that she could be showing a little more emotion at times, especially compared to the zany antics of Lupin and Zenigata's cynicism coming to life in this most recent escapade (actually, I think that they're getting better at facially-animating Fujiko, since she had some subtle funny moments in this ep). Let's wait and see!
I also think it's brusque and rather rude to pin the blame on Sayo Yamamoto entirely, as she has done expressive commentaries on the motivations of different female characters in the recent past, as Michiko to Hatchin showed rather well. We're not exactly too certain about the particulars of who's been most influential in deciding on Fujiko's interpretation and literary execution thus far, whether it be at the whimsy of one Mari Okada or some other notable staff member whom people are naturally going to use as scapegoats for their cynicism. Was Sayo Yamamoto even totally responsible for the going-ons in Michiko to Hatchin anyway? If someone's going to try and convince me that the average anime director gets a larger say in how a production is going to play out, anyway, I'll need some evidence, a convincingly-suitable argument, and probably sources to other viewpoints that have suggested the same in the past. But productions like these are not generally in the hands of an all-controlling anime auteur (and those kinds of individuals, Osamu Dezaki included, ultimately had to work with other people on shows anyway!).
More and more symbolism is starting to creep into the sides of storyboards, before-and-after eyecatches, and they appear in key parts of episodes too. All of this owl stuff and butterflies, even, are clearly pointing to a promise between the developers and the audience that something utterly-revelatory is going to go down, and so the expectations have already developed in the viewers' minds and, of course, I'm expecting some real development and initiative to come out of Fujiko's currently-empty shell. As it is, she really isn't in any position to be reputed throughout the land (though Lupin, keen and observant of his competition, was aware of her presence before she knew it). And, right now, I think that's perfectly fine given that these early episodes feel experimental, rough, and less focused on her juicy bits than they are on providing accessible and style-defining contrasts between her and the rest of the cast. So, though I can understand why you might think that Fujiko is clearly being undeveloped on a cynical basis, I've come to the conclusion that there is some effective reasoning behind all of this chicanery and relative non-focus on Fujiko, who's still stumbling 'round in the dark as if something keeps knocking her to the ground. Perhaps she's just young, too.
Much like what we've heard from the French animators involved with this production, anyway, everything seems up in the air regarding how the later episodes will play out, seeing as this series is taking a more development-based approach to a traditionally episodic progression of scenarios and characters. Putting new interpretations of classic personas into immediately-recognizable situations is an effective literary device, which can be used to ease watchers into the immersive, abstracted and colorful word that Fujiko and her kind of people live and interact in. I guess the only thing to be mad at, anyway, is that she could be showing a little more emotion at times, especially compared to the zany antics of Lupin and Zenigata's cynicism coming to life in this most recent escapade (actually, I think that they're getting better at facially-animating Fujiko, since she had some subtle funny moments in this ep). Let's wait and see!
I'm sorry....did Zenigata just get laid, or did I miss something in translation? Fujiko getting banged by old man Zenigata is a huge....I'm not sure I can look past this hilarity.
Something about this episode rubbed me the wrong way. I know that every heist doesn't need to involve Lupin riding on the back of a rocket propelled drug statue, but him dangling over a crowd like a buffoon, or getting shot (lol, he had a whole tank full of red liquid in there! /s) didn't really make for exciting television. The bee's were equally as uninspired, because the second they showed them I went "Oh, yeah, he's going to use those bees".
She gives her reason as "to escape her past" in a previous episode. I don't think we're really privy to what exactly that entails for her yet at this point
. I agree though, that four episodes into a thirteen episode series is probably a bit too long for the lead character of the show to be as aloof as Fujiko currently is.
Something about this episode rubbed me the wrong way. I know that every heist doesn't need to involve Lupin riding on the back of a rocket propelled drug statue, but him dangling over a crowd like a buffoon, or getting shot (lol, he had a whole tank full of red liquid in there! /s) didn't really make for exciting television. The bee's were equally as uninspired, because the second they showed them I went "Oh, yeah, he's going to use those bees".
She gives her reason as "to escape her past" in a previous episode. I don't think we're really privy to what exactly that entails for her yet at this point
although child abuse/working as a prostitute/etc seem pretty likely after seeing the ED
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
Lupin did some silly stuff, yeah, but it's not like he has to work very hard to get the maskor so he thinks, anyway. Ep's definitely an improvement from the preceding tale with Goemon, better-paced, funnier, and more complex overall.
Of course, since these were episodes dedicated to the introduction of characters, Zenigata & the gang, where Fujiko was used to make emerge from them their personalities and behavior as presented on this series, like a catalyst.
Now, after this... what will they do with her? Will they slip on each following episodes hints about her and the reasons for the attitude she exhibits? Or will they make an habitual flashback episode or episodes where we will see the real bulk of the question in regards to her motivations? With this episodic structure and the reiterative "melancholic, seductive past and the young herself" imagery sprinkled on openings, endings and the episodes I would probably bet on the second option.
checkeredknight
Member
Lupin III: A woman named Fujiko Mine - Living in Song, Living in Love.
Hmm. This episode was good, but I didn't enjoy it as much as I thought I was going to. The animation was nice and the story was pretty cool, but there were too many little niggles that were stopping me from liking it as much as I wanted.
Zenigata did something very out of character that has irked me a lot. I'm sure any other fan of either the Green, Red or Pink jacket series could pinpoint this action as well.
The scene at the beginning with him and Fujiko seemed a little out of place, but I can let that slide. Zenigata has shown affection for other women in previous Lupin material, but it's very clear that this is a different inspector from the "I wonder what mother would say" Zenigata from Red Jacket. However, shooting Lupin in the back and saying he wants to exterminate the Lupin name is just too much out of character. Granted, he's pretty baddass, but he's lost a lot of the traits I love about him. He would go out of his way to stop people shooting at Lupin; he merely wants the thief behind bars, not a murder. Shooting him in the back and yelling "I got him!" when all of the "blood" gushed out is a BIG no-no from me. Prequel or not, this is not the Zenigata character I enjoy. It annoys me, since they kept all of the other fours characters pretty close. They could have still made Zenigata baddass without him shooting Lupin. I was also very disappointed when he pulled out the handcuffs and didn't toss them, a common trait of Zenigata in the older series.
Aside from that, everything else was pretty okay. I'm starting to like Oscar more, whether
it be male or female.
catacombs with him/her and Fujiko was pretty funny. I like that he/she can see Fujiko for how she really is and scowls at the thought of it.
My favourite moments were
Lupin making the horse noises as he ran off stage and the whole "Zenigata, where art thou Zenigata!" scene.
LordCanti said:
Agree'd. The bee's just kind of felt like they were there for the sake of things. He was stood on the rafters above the mask; I would've preferred him to just use some sort of gadget like a fishing rod (see Eternal Mermaid) to make an attempt at stealing the mask.
Yeah, this isn't the Zenigata or the Fujiko that I know and love either. Fujiko should be using her feminine wiles to avoid having to get boinked by someone like Zenigata. For his part, Zenigata shouldn't be getting laid at all.
I agree with you that Zenigata shooting him was off-putting. Maybe not as much as Fujiko having to screw tott-san, but still. It's odd, because Jigen, Goemon, and Lupin seem fairly unchanged from previous incarnations.
Hah, Fujiwhore. Love it.
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
I'm going to watch the Funi sub before taking Check's opinion as gospel. From the sound of things, though, they're doing Zenigata in another direction, an all-business bully who wants to get the case over with, and with no regard for catching Lupin and playing along. Quite a change, but I'll need to see it in context before deciding on a verdict.
Fujiko, on the other hand, has had her moments, despite not having any eps to herself yet. The episodes on nigh should be featuring her more exclusively, and those eps will be the best chance to start developing her character.
Fujiko, on the other hand, has had her moments, despite not having any eps to herself yet. The episodes on nigh should be featuring her more exclusively, and those eps will be the best chance to start developing her character.
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
Source? It really does seem like they're going to play the series straight with all of these classic scenarios and such. Let's just hope that Fujiko gets more and more attention!
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
lol
http://tv.yahoo.co.jp/program/55476610/
The actual synopsis is longer, but I think less spoilers is better!
Oscar was using some words I didn't know when I watched the untranslated version. Now that I know he basically called her a cumdumpster, I've got a new found respect for him.
I hope they meet during the pyramid exploration, and it's not suddenly all "Oh, yeah, we know each other now".
I hope they meet during the pyramid exploration, and it's not suddenly all "Oh, yeah, we know each other now".
checkeredknight
Member
Secret of Mamo? :lol
The synopsis suggests that they do meet independently.
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
Ben Ettinger's put his comments up alreadyseems he likes it a good deal, actually.
Did he say anything about how stupid the "burn my face with acid so I can live in the catacombs with my grandfatherly paramore" plan was?
My Japanese is rusty. I had thought the freckled chick had burned her in order to steal her spot. I knew the dialogue didn't support that, but they didn't set up any reason why she couldn't just quit like a normal person, so it was bizarre to me.
This show has had a lot of people doing crazy things. First the drug cultists, then the chick that tries to commit suicide all the time, and now a girl that burns her face instead of resigning like any other human being on the planet would have done.
Nice.
This is what is roiling about in my mind.
...but this is closer to what my post about the episode was going to look like.
I'm very far removed from the anime scene but I still have a massive soft spot for a couple anime/manga properties, Lupin being chief among them. I just don't think I can abide this show any longer. To me this series is akin to doing a new TMNT show where April's the main character. Also a hooker.
Ultimadrago
Member
Lupin III: A Woman named Fujiko Mine 4
This Zenigata is the "lulz"!
I don't know what I think of this episode really.
A part of me liked it, but the direction with Zenigata was not expected by myself nor welcome.
I love the Lupin still though, care lesser for Fujiko.
I might have spoken too soon on Oscar potentially holding back Zenigata. It seems that in this series, a partner actually adds to furthering the plans of the operation in a professional matter,
Overall, the climax to the "mystery" left me wanting. I didn't love it, didn't hate it. It was "okay." The most substance I got out of it was that Oscar might be a good assistant for Zenigata because he has some professional sense!
Lupin antics
This Zenigata is the "lulz"!
I don't know what I think of this episode really.
A part of me liked it, but the direction with Zenigata was not expected by myself nor welcome.
The ass grabbings after the fooling around along with the "bloodthirsty" nature against Lupin and his entire bloodline just felt off, off, off.
I love the Lupin still though, care lesser for Fujiko.
I might have spoken too soon on Oscar potentially holding back Zenigata. It seems that in this series, a partner actually adds to furthering the plans of the operation in a professional matter,
since Zenigata initially was not up for going after Lupin himself. An idea, I don't believe I'd see the "old" Zenigata ever encourage in the slightest.
Overall, the climax to the "mystery" left me wanting. I didn't love it, didn't hate it. It was "okay." The most substance I got out of it was that Oscar might be a good assistant for Zenigata because he has some professional sense!
How about a Batman movie where Catwoman is the main character. And a hooker. Lol.
Some writing issues aside and the climax being relatively weak. I thought episode 4 was pretty good, I liked the direction and visuals of this episode a lot, and this probably had more animation than the previous two episodes!
So far ep1 > ep2 > ep4 > ep3. Here's hoping ep5 and 6 deliver to my hype
Fujiko problem in the series is her lack of personality really, and the annoying thing about that is it seems intentional, as they seem to be aiming for some nihilistic tone for the character, maybe the inevitable
will give her more personality, I dunno.
So far ep1 > ep2 > ep4 > ep3. Here's hoping ep5 and 6 deliver to my hype
Being a whore isn't a bad thing
Fujiko problem in the series is her lack of personality really, and the annoying thing about that is it seems intentional, as they seem to be aiming for some nihilistic tone for the character, maybe the inevitable
flashback arc
IC_Champion
Member
I think that (if) her personality is part of her direction, yes. Example: Michiko to Hation. The lead character was made to be a bad role model that you see it til the end. However, that character had a significant change. I don't know about Yamamoto's take on Fujiko until the end of this series.
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
It'd be more like Mari Okada's take, if we're to blame anyone. This episode and, really, this whole series has been polarizing from start to present. People either really like it, or they really hate it.
Err I doubt that - most of the polarizing aspects of the series seem like something Yamamoto would do, then Mari Okada
Mari Okada probably just does what Yamamoto tells her to do
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
Pretty sure that anime directors don't control the whole show, though, and Mari is the series writer and script editor anyway. I'm not going to bet on either of them. If it's that much easier to blame Sayo for perceived problems, then so be it. It's really a wait-and-see affair with this show, but I'm fine with a less-than-stellar lead for the time being. The show's really been about the scenario and side characters so far.
Loopin da Thrid: A Wimmin Named Fujicakes
Just watched it subbed on Funi, and I'll make this brief: episode's robust and fun to watch.
Zenigata is both competent and amoral, making his Western cop image that much more effective given how distrustful of women and thieves he is, and how he got mad after his measured plans failed to turn in Lupin (which would explain, partly, why he felt like killing Lupin and ending the conflict then and there). I loved some of his lines in this, but the implication that he's going to lose his cool in later episodes and, maybe then, develop into something more similar to the classic anime Zenigata is quite interesting. Even without that, though, he's got a great opposite spin in this series, and I was surprised with how well he was executed. Oscar, of course, is both aide de camp and secret cynic for Zenigata—note how he takes frequent jabs of dark humor at Zenigata behind his back, or how he implies that Fujiko was just another cumdumpster for Zenigata to waste. It'd be interesting to see how Zenigata works with his partner in such a double act, but this episode didn't have too much time for deliberation on that part. The rest of the characters were well-executed too, from Lupin doing his usual to Aiyan and Da Renzo both being crazy fuck-ups in their own right (the former being fatalistic and illogical, the latter being a clever backstage hubby).
Shadows are probably going to stay sketchy throughout the series, as there seems to be two different styles of cross-hatching available: really rough looking stuff, or more thinly-presented and well-shaded lines. While I prefer the latter, both styles were used quite effectively throughout to enhance the theatric atmosphere. Animation's also improved a good deal, with some fluid moments here and there and less dull moments overall. The music? Never going to complain about the music, especially coming from Naruyoshi Kikuchi. Though I think that episode's better than 3, it's not as good as 1 and nowhere close to 2. A shame, but I don't normally like to review too many shows at one time (I'm supposed to be Ashita no Joe right now!), and I felt this episode was deserving of more opinions on it by now. Polarizing doesn't even begin to describe the strange reactions people have been having so far!
Loopin da Thrid: A Wimmin Named Fujicakes
Just watched it subbed on Funi, and I'll make this brief: episode's robust and fun to watch.
Zenigata is both competent and amoral, making his Western cop image that much more effective given how distrustful of women and thieves he is, and how he got mad after his measured plans failed to turn in Lupin (which would explain, partly, why he felt like killing Lupin and ending the conflict then and there). I loved some of his lines in this, but the implication that he's going to lose his cool in later episodes and, maybe then, develop into something more similar to the classic anime Zenigata is quite interesting. Even without that, though, he's got a great opposite spin in this series, and I was surprised with how well he was executed. Oscar, of course, is both aide de camp and secret cynic for Zenigata—note how he takes frequent jabs of dark humor at Zenigata behind his back, or how he implies that Fujiko was just another cumdumpster for Zenigata to waste. It'd be interesting to see how Zenigata works with his partner in such a double act, but this episode didn't have too much time for deliberation on that part. The rest of the characters were well-executed too, from Lupin doing his usual to Aiyan and Da Renzo both being crazy fuck-ups in their own right (the former being fatalistic and illogical, the latter being a clever backstage hubby).
Shadows are probably going to stay sketchy throughout the series, as there seems to be two different styles of cross-hatching available: really rough looking stuff, or more thinly-presented and well-shaded lines. While I prefer the latter, both styles were used quite effectively throughout to enhance the theatric atmosphere. Animation's also improved a good deal, with some fluid moments here and there and less dull moments overall. The music? Never going to complain about the music, especially coming from Naruyoshi Kikuchi. Though I think that episode's better than 3, it's not as good as 1 and nowhere close to 2. A shame, but I don't normally like to review too many shows at one time (I'm supposed to be Ashita no Joe right now!), and I felt this episode was deserving of more opinions on it by now. Polarizing doesn't even begin to describe the strange reactions people have been having so far!
Barkley's Justice
Member
sup wit ya boy and the high heels?
What? Why would you place the writer (especially a for hire writer as opposed to an original content creator) on higher level of responsibility than the series director? This is clearly a Sayo Yamamoto vehicle, and it has all of her creative strokes. Diverting the blame seems silly and unrealistic. The writer's job is to brainstorm with the director and producer to come up with screenplays. In the end, the final call is the director's, and the screenwriter simply writes and corrects things which the director and sometimes the producers want.
If the dialogue is poor or there aren't any good quotable lines, that would be more likely the fault of the writer being unable to bring out the best of the material requested. If the story and characterizations are actually fucked up, that is usually the director's fault for letting it happen.
Edit: Instead of just talking about it, I'm going to introduce actual evidence to how things work in the industry: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/new...hana-originally-had-slapstick-erotic-elements
So yeah, I think we would be correct in laying the blame for how the show is, and the tone, if we dislike it, mostly on the director. Not the writer.
Just watched episode 4, and the first thing that comes to mind is "What the hell was that". That isn't the Zenigata I love, and the plot twist was dumb. Who was opposing their love that they needed a stupid scheme to do it? Even a hand waved reason like "My parents, who are in high society, wouldn't allow it" would do.
Also, what do they mean the treasure burned to a crisp. Its gold and gems, I don't know too much about jewelry, but I'm pretty sure wood burning fire would not destroy it.
I don't get the point of Oscar, is it supposed to just add random sexual tension, comic relief?
Was Zenigata like that in the Manga, willing to sleep around and shoot to kill Lupin? He seemed really adamant about taking Lupin in to Judged for his Crimes in the name of the Law in the Anime, now he seems just to want him dead.
Also, that necklace on Fujiko was really badly drawn, I just kept getting distracted by it. It looked like she glued bits of gold and gems right to her skin. And that random scene near the end with the River, wat. I saw the Owl from the intro on the columns, so I guess they may explain more about her past, but I have a feeling they are just going to continue to be overly artsy about it.
The series is only 13 episodes, so I'll likely stick though with it, but unless it starts picking up, I don't think I'm going to remember this too fondly. It feels like they are really trying to be overly artistic, and not taking unneeded liberties with some of the characters.
Also, what do they mean the treasure burned to a crisp. Its gold and gems, I don't know too much about jewelry, but I'm pretty sure wood burning fire would not destroy it.
I don't get the point of Oscar, is it supposed to just add random sexual tension, comic relief?
Was Zenigata like that in the Manga, willing to sleep around and shoot to kill Lupin? He seemed really adamant about taking Lupin in to Judged for his Crimes in the name of the Law in the Anime, now he seems just to want him dead.
Also, that necklace on Fujiko was really badly drawn, I just kept getting distracted by it. It looked like she glued bits of gold and gems right to her skin. And that random scene near the end with the River, wat. I saw the Owl from the intro on the columns, so I guess they may explain more about her past, but I have a feeling they are just going to continue to be overly artsy about it.
The series is only 13 episodes, so I'll likely stick though with it, but unless it starts picking up, I don't think I'm going to remember this too fondly. It feels like they are really trying to be overly artistic, and not taking unneeded liberties with some of the characters.
I guess they needed to have at least one prettyboy. He just happens to be a gay guy who dropped a truth bomb on Fujiko this episode.
They haven't made Fujiko a compelling character at all.....
I mostly agree with this. Lupin is an infinitely better lead, and Fujiko isn't really carrying this show so far.
Everyone is turning on Koikelupin maybe my INSANE hype for it killed it, oh noes.
maybe my INSANE hype for it killed it, oh noes.
I'm still enjoying the show a lot despite my issues with the characterization so w/e
It is a prequel hence why they are taking liberties with the characters, wonder if the series is long enough to tie-in how they became the characters they are in the original series?
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
The show's more than fine without a particularly-strong lead showing from Fujiko. I've got this impression that Sayo wants to gradually develop her into more of a strong figure as the series continues, whilst the other characters won't get the same kind of treatment. And if that doesn't happen, I still won't be complaining, because everything else other than inconsistent shading is really good.
—Even then, though, I think that the director could have thought out the show's premise and direction better. If you're going to try and do a modern take on a Lupin series, with character development arcs and the like, it's better to choose a character that you know can be well-developed without a hitch. Fujiko's not one of them—she's always been a outlier, meant to provide comic relief and intervention into the plans of Lupin and Jigen, and part of what her interesting was her mystery. While I can why developing her could make her that much more interesting, destroying that haze around her backstory isn't exactly everyone's preferred direction with the franchise (or with a series at all, anyway). So: it's more than possible that the pre-production was largely about what direction to take a new Lupin series with, and the constant tug-of-war between not letting too much on and letting too much on about her character seems to be prevalent throughout this show. I'd be fine if she either stayed out of the spotlight, becoming the viewer's eye in the insane world that Fujiko lives through, or if she became the definite focus of the show with more fine details and less attention diverted to definite stand-outs like Lupin, at the expense of less ambiguity. But please, please don't straddle the line between both here. The most anyone can do at this point is make her presence stronger without expanding her character, which would probably be the best way to mitigate this limbo. But, even then, the whole premise is shaky on principle.
—Even then, though, I think that the director could have thought out the show's premise and direction better. If you're going to try and do a modern take on a Lupin series, with character development arcs and the like, it's better to choose a character that you know can be well-developed without a hitch. Fujiko's not one of them—she's always been a outlier, meant to provide comic relief and intervention into the plans of Lupin and Jigen, and part of what her interesting was her mystery. While I can why developing her could make her that much more interesting, destroying that haze around her backstory isn't exactly everyone's preferred direction with the franchise (or with a series at all, anyway). So: it's more than possible that the pre-production was largely about what direction to take a new Lupin series with, and the constant tug-of-war between not letting too much on and letting too much on about her character seems to be prevalent throughout this show. I'd be fine if she either stayed out of the spotlight, becoming the viewer's eye in the insane world that Fujiko lives through, or if she became the definite focus of the show with more fine details and less attention diverted to definite stand-outs like Lupin, at the expense of less ambiguity. But please, please don't straddle the line between both here. The most anyone can do at this point is make her presence stronger without expanding her character, which would probably be the best way to mitigate this limbo. But, even then, the whole premise is shaky on principle.
Jex
Member
After several decades, I'd quite like people to take liberties with the IP. I am very glad they have. There really is no need to rehash what has already been covered several times before.
I'd rather they didn't do it badly, however.
Maybe they should have started with Lupin and the gang already knowing each other, or Lupin knowing Jigen, and Fujiko knowing Goemon or something. These introduction episodes (this last one arguably being Zenigata's) are starting to wear on me. Having said that, this is the most ambitious Lupin endeavor in decades, so I shouldn't complain.
Until we complain too loudly and they go back to one (usually bad) Lupin movie a year.
By "we" I guess I mean "Japanese fans they actually care about" (I.E: Not me)
MilesWebber
Member
Wow I must be easy to please because I'm really enjoying all of it!
Pfft the first two episodes were great. Only the last 2 have been of mixed quality. Ep5 and Ep6 should make everyone love the show again!
There's literally no chance of this show doing well though.
you should be glad it even exists, even when what it's attempting isn't always a hit!- Status
Similar threads
- Locked