-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Why region lock exist?
- Thread starter LeleSocho
- Start date
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
Yes. Those 50 people who import will sure make a huge difference.
H_Prestige
Banned
It still has nothing to do with region locking. You can run entirely European ps3 software, DLC and online passes included, on a NA or JP ps3. The same cannot be said of other consoles. There are no locks to break via hacking, it's all officially supported by Sony.
Because MS charges for it, apparently.
In the olden days, region locks were for a number of reasons, including (but not limited to):
1) The PAL 50hz and NTSC 60hz divide (it wasn't good if someone bought an imported game and it appeared in black and white (or not at all) on their raggedy-ass European TV).
2) Language barriers (it was argued that it's not good for console makers if foreign language games are diluting the market, confusing their customers).
3) Price protection for them and their retail partners. If anyone could import games into the UK from the US, for example, GAME would've gone bust in the 90s. Whilst cartridge games were expensive in the US, they were even more of a rip off over here.
With an improvement in PAL TV and eventually the jump to HD, and enough storage for multiple languages on one SKU, the excuses for region locking have whittled down to price protection, really.
And we know that the motives of these companies is price protection, because they will do anything to keep prices as high as they can in each region. Nintendo was busted for price fixing inside the EU, for example; they kept the prices higher in some countries compared to others, and tried to obstruct imports between EU member states. So it seems pretty obvious to me that the region lock is their way of enforcing it on a global scale, where such price fixing laws don't apply. Let's also not forget how SCEE handled Lik-Sang. I'm pretty sure that was because they were selling PSPs at a price lower than SCEE planned to sell them at.
They basically take advantage of the benefits of globalisation, such as publishing one company's games worldwide, manufacturing their hardware in China to be sold worldwide, and then deny their customers the same benefit to buy their hardware and software wherever they want to.
1) The PAL 50hz and NTSC 60hz divide (it wasn't good if someone bought an imported game and it appeared in black and white (or not at all) on their raggedy-ass European TV).
2) Language barriers (it was argued that it's not good for console makers if foreign language games are diluting the market, confusing their customers).
3) Price protection for them and their retail partners. If anyone could import games into the UK from the US, for example, GAME would've gone bust in the 90s. Whilst cartridge games were expensive in the US, they were even more of a rip off over here.
With an improvement in PAL TV and eventually the jump to HD, and enough storage for multiple languages on one SKU, the excuses for region locking have whittled down to price protection, really.
And we know that the motives of these companies is price protection, because they will do anything to keep prices as high as they can in each region. Nintendo was busted for price fixing inside the EU, for example; they kept the prices higher in some countries compared to others, and tried to obstruct imports between EU member states. So it seems pretty obvious to me that the region lock is their way of enforcing it on a global scale, where such price fixing laws don't apply. Let's also not forget how SCEE handled Lik-Sang. I'm pretty sure that was because they were selling PSPs at a price lower than SCEE planned to sell them at.
They basically take advantage of the benefits of globalisation, such as publishing one company's games worldwide, manufacturing their hardware in China to be sold worldwide, and then deny their customers the same benefit to buy their hardware and software wherever they want to.
R_thanatos
Member
His point was that online passes are region locked .
i answered that i some cases they are not.
The very same way dlc is not region locked ( for the consummer ).. the day sony changes this it'll be another story ..but right now i buy my dlc from all the stores for the version of the games i enjoy..
No no onlines passes are NOT always a lock preventing you from importing , especially for such a big release such as uncharted 3.
Want an example of region locking : White knight chronicles 2 .. The game is even locked within Europe ( Uk can't play in france )..you can't use the online if you get the game from a different region of your account. that's how bad it is..
nope, Resistance 3 online pass is universal.
I just want my Japanese games and I want to be gouged for them! Maybe in regions that are closer to other regions (e.g. the Russian example) the pricing issue makes sense, but with any game I've imported, price has certainly not been a reason.
I've imported some PS3 games, contemplated getting a J360 simply for Cave games before the localization was common, and have resisted buying a 3DS specifically because it's region locked. Pretty important factor for me at least.
I've imported some PS3 games, contemplated getting a J360 simply for Cave games before the localization was common, and have resisted buying a 3DS specifically because it's region locked. Pretty important factor for me at least.
H_Prestige
Banned
Region locking has to do with hardware. Sony's hardware isn't locked out of any region's software. Yes, you have to buy the other region software from the corresponding region's PSN store. But that's like saying ps3 isn't region locked because you have to import Japanese games from play asia instead of buying them locally.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
I bought UK LE R3 and online pass worked perfectly fine for me on US account. even James Stevenson confirmed it's universal. unless it happens to lock within EU which is weird.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Lotta reasons, but one of the big ones used to be reverse importation. Especially with fighting games, for example, people would just buy the JP version because it came out like half a year before the US one... why would I wait for the US version of Fighting Vipers when the Japanese one's already out, and I can play as Pepsiman?
I wouldn't, duh!
I wouldn't, duh!
Sidewinder
Member
On the PS3 I can play DLC or play online (with an activated pass) on any account I have.
Is this still the case on the Vita? AFAIR it isn't, or could I buy a swiss Unit 13, activate it on my swiss account and switch back to my main (US) account and play online??
It's just so silly, the already lost two sales to me because of that (Wipeout and Unit13).
Is this still the case on the Vita? AFAIR it isn't, or could I buy a swiss Unit 13, activate it on my swiss account and switch back to my main (US) account and play online??
It's just so silly, the already lost two sales to me because of that (Wipeout and Unit13).
Master Milk
Member
Exactly, it's all about them making money.
As a consumer, I don't care about that. And when we have open consoles existing aside region locked ones, I care even less.
H_Prestige
Banned
I think technically it is. But since the Vita can only have one profile on the system it would be a major pain in the ass. I think PSP works the same way.
All things from the past.
It made sense in a world where a export company could play with this and get unfair advantage moving big volumes of products. It happened in the arcades for example.
The moment the consumer gained the ability to buy anything from anywhere with a click, it stopped to make sense and became a hassle. Funnily enough, Nintendo, a company that has always been paranoid about controlling their distribution channels, understood that using a region lock for a handheld made no sense, but here we are, with a locked 3DS.
If it was a really important problem nowadays, SCE would have put a region lock to PS3 as they did with PS2. I'm pretty sure that the scale of the problem is ridicule and not worth considering over the satisfaction of the small numbers of consumers that are royally screwed when they have to deal with a region lock.
AndyMoogle
Member
Don't let companies trick you into thinking it is to stop piracy (i.e. Nintendo), it's just so they can keep total control over how people acquire their games.
When has Nintendo said it's because of piracy? I don't recall them ever saying anything like that.
This is what they said about the 3DS region lock:
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
radioheadrule83
Banned
With regionalisation in place, content owners have the *option* to sell the distribution of their games abroad, even if they never use it.
I agree that it sucks in those cases where games are not released in certain regions. Where a publisher just flat out knows there will be little to no interest in another region, they should still offer an export programme for dedicated fans imo. It would be a trivial thing to implement a regional blocking scheme with exceptions / downloads for the hardcore niche titles. They should totally leave region encoding to content-owner / publisher discretion imo. If they want to make a game region free and forgo the chance to resale rights abroad, let them do it. I think there would be political issues for some publishers and their retail partners around the world if they embraced that approach uniformly.
R_thanatos
Member
Except that it's what i do .. i import games sometimes from play asia to play on my EU Ps3 no lock..and the lock isn't all on the hardware it's also in the software .. a EU ps3 is perfectly capable of reading a blu ray video locked for US yet it doesn't ..
and some games ( see below ) do have region restrictions in rares cases.
It is weird but there is Region locking within Europe for PSN .. Sony does this at times in some cases ( white knight chonicles 2 being another example )
Sidewinder
Member
Sure about that? I thought we couldn't even play PSP/Vita games bought in a store from region A (Germany) on an account from region B (USA)? Because if I just had to switch accounts to buy and download stuff from another region and then play it on any account I wouldn't mind that much, but I'm almost certain it isn't like that. And that's the single most annoying thing about the Vita, the increased region locking.
R_thanatos
Member
All thoses restricstion have to do with online only. ( mainly )
It's another way of saying ..your online will not work so we blocked everything ...
You can play a JAP vita game on a EU vita console.
regardless of the account activated on said console.
However , you'll need dlc from the region of your game to be activated on it and use it with the game.
Now if you're talking about digital Vita games, they work only if you're using the account the content was purchased... if you change your vita account , the game ( digital ) won't start .. and will work again once you switch back. Swtching back is something you can do in less than 5 mins if you have a working internet connexion.
Actually i have a PS3 and a Vita but the games i'm interested in are released on Nintendo and Microsoft consoles.... only in japan of course.
You can have all the profiles you want in Vita. The limitation is that you can't have them at once, you have go in and out to switch them, which it is a hassle, but at least won't force me to buy a second Vita to play the new Hatsune Miku.
I have used my USA, EU and JP PSN account on Vita without problem.
ya .. controlling the possible market spread of a product and its attached price.
djplaeskool
Member
360 region encoding is a toss-up.
I know there are a number of games that are region-free, though most are locked.
Who makes this decision? Publishers, I'm assuming?
hahaha I love PR talk, it's filled with so much bullshit.
Sidewinder
Member
Yeah, should've phrased that more precisely, I meant digital games from the PSN store, so no miracle there, the region locking got worse than on the PS3, this doesn't bode well for the PS4 ;(
H_Prestige
Banned
We're not talking about bluray/dvd/ps1/ps2 software, just ps3. And all ps3s are universal when it comes to ps3 playback. Region restrictions for DLC/online passes aren't examples of region locking, since you can set up an account of whatever region you choose regardless of what region your ps3 hardware is from. There are no locks in place. Just hoops to jump through, but that's always the case when importing stuff.
Yes. For example, I remember Cave releasing a game without region lock on 360, while the rest of the catalogue has it (don't remember which one).
Also the rights to game distribution may lie with different companies in different regions.
PS3 is dev decission, the only game region locked is Def Jam Icon demo :S (not sure if the full game runs).
R_thanatos
Member
it's the same as the psp.sony didn't move on that aspect .. For digital you couldn't have more than one account active on the psp either. The perpective is different between handleds and home consoles ..
I dunno why you argue with me since it's what i am saying since the start..
There is no region lock on PS3 ( and i hate region lock ) . Online passes works even accross différent account regions with some exception within EU ( regarding Uk)
Now you can continue to argue but i haven't changed my position since the start on that matter.
3 people said the same thing as me but you argue with me like i've said something wrong ...
H_Prestige
Banned
My apologies. Sounded like you were saying the opposite.
Sidewinder
Member
You're right, I forgot about that, because I only bought one single game from PSN for the PSP and just occasionally switched accounts via PS3 for some demos.
R_thanatos
Member
That sure was a weird decision ( def jam icon demo ) , even for uncharted 1 ( demo ) , ND activated it by mistake and released a normal demo afterwards.. BUT ...Ea ... Well ...
No problem
OldJadedGamer
Banned
Which brings up a different point. Why are only games region free? Why not Blu-rays? You can't blame the studios since Sony owned studios are still region blocked. Also, why wasn't the region lock lifted on PS1/PS2 titles? We know they can be since when the system was hacked they played fine.
Because movies especially have different distributors for different regions. Also the release dates are just all over the place from region to region.
Barkley's Justice
Member
ha, me too
DXB-KNIGHT
Member
The only true reason.
H_Prestige
Banned
With ps1/ps2 region locks not being lifted, I think Sony would have to renegotiate the licensing for all those titles. It's why when those same titles are put on PSN, they are no longer region locked. The region locks were never about physical limitations in the first place.
radioheadrule83
Banned
Its a hassle to the consumer, but on it being an outdated way of operating - I disagree. People still need to be employed to sell games in your country's videogame stores, supermarkets or multimedia shops (for the time being anyway), companies still need regional marketing staff, regional support lines for people to phone, repair centres to operate, people who plan the general cut and thrust of the local business in order to make their console / game a success. The people at the likes of Sony UK, Nintendo Großostheim and Codestorm House need a purpose, y'know? Otherwise, why not just shut all those things down?
Local trademark and copyright law, patent law, safety related regulatory clearance for electronics, the self-regulatory bodies like ESRB and PEGI for software -- these things need to be dealt with. You could manage a huge software company completely out of the US or Japan alone if you wanted, but I don't think the result would be pretty. Not if you were trying to operate globally. You need people on the ground in each location, managing risk, managing money, marketing and selling product. Those people are the best to manage it, and those people need a place in the system, they need paying. You can't manage that kind of effort centrally... that's why we have regional subsidiaries.
Where a large corporation owns every arm of distribution and sale, region free should be more common -- they get a sale either way, and whatever they lose will be small change. I think as we go digital, they will reflect that and they'll have no choice but to allow us to buy whenever and wherever we want.... However, where special efforts are still being applied and people employed to tailor and market a product to a locality, where licensing deals and partnerships are in effect, and peoples' jobs depend on how the bean counters percieve the local market - then I can understand why they want to protect the flow of money through their business in this way... even now.
Sony's laissez-fairre approach with PS3 doesn't extend to Blu-Ray a lot of the time, but I do like it. I'm not sure they materially benefit or suffer from it in any way, so I think Microsoft and Nintendo should consider that... however, I have to wonder if maybe companies like Marvellous / Atlus perhaps benefit from the market need created by region locking... there are people who win / lose in each different scenario.
Like I said earlier, I'm in favour of having the content owner and publishers make the decision and region locking be on a case by case basis. That way the first parties can region lock their own games if they want to, third parties can, and they can make their arguments for that -- but everyone (including small developers making niche titles) would have the option to reach everyone-everywhere if they wanted to...
When Nintendo ran the Hanabi Festival import campaign on Virtual Console with the Wii -- I actually thought that was a great idea, a way of publicly highlighting the best foreign content and making it available when it otherwise wouldn't be... even if they only did that, but for retail download software on Wii-U, that would be quite cool imo.
Because A. Sony needed the support of all studios to promote Blu-Ray and they couldn't offend them with region-free Blu-Ray and B. the distribution of movies is a clusterfuck where a single movie can have two distributors in the same country. Their rights have to be protected. It becomes quite hard to sell your movies to foreign distributors if you sell region-free Blu-Rays, which even goes for Sony that doesn't work worldwide.
R_thanatos
Member
@radioheadrule83
the local ( region ) PR guys and all the chain of command to promote a game later in another region after another need to works ..but thats' assuming everyone will buy the first version ( released earlier ) in the first place ... and they don't because importing is still a niche thing for almost everyone.
Their purpose , if there is a high demand , is to be ready to provide the game in their local region within regular delays..that way there is no need of importing at all.
This way of thinking is great when you're talking about World wide releases but not every game is like that ..
the local ( region ) PR guys and all the chain of command to promote a game later in another region after another need to works ..but thats' assuming everyone will buy the first version ( released earlier ) in the first place ... and they don't because importing is still a niche thing for almost everyone.
Their purpose , if there is a high demand , is to be ready to provide the game in their local region within regular delays..that way there is no need of importing at all.
A good example would be Steam. The sudden lockout from buying in US dollars was a big slap in the face for loyal non-US steam users at the time. Never forgave them for that..