OldJadedGamer
Banned
Some games have different publishers in different regions as well. For instance Capcom publishes GTA games in Japan and Atlus published Demon's Souls in the US. But the PS3 is still region free.
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Why region lock exist?
- Thread starter LeleSocho
- Start date
Some games have different publishers in different regions as well. For instance Capcom publishes GTA games in Japan and Atlus published Demon's Souls in the US. But the PS3 is still region free.
butter_stick
Banned
Region locking shoud be up to the publisher, not the hardware owner.
I understand region locking in most situations. For niche games that will never come overseas, it's needless.
I understand region locking in most situations. For niche games that will never come overseas, it's needless.
It exists for 1 reason and 1 reason only.
So corporations can reap the advantages of globalisation (cheap labour and manufacturing) without their customers being able to reap the benefits themselves (grey importing). It's an unfair advantage this industry maintains that most other industries aren't allowed to. Nobody can stop me importing cheap PC parts or cheap consumer electronics but if I do import a NTSC 360 game its completely useless to me due to arbitrary region locking. WTF kind of logic is that. Any excuse about licensing is BS, removing region protection doesn't remove the ability for licensing holders of selling a game exclusively in a region.
So corporations can reap the advantages of globalisation (cheap labour and manufacturing) without their customers being able to reap the benefits themselves (grey importing). It's an unfair advantage this industry maintains that most other industries aren't allowed to. Nobody can stop me importing cheap PC parts or cheap consumer electronics but if I do import a NTSC 360 game its completely useless to me due to arbitrary region locking. WTF kind of logic is that. Any excuse about licensing is BS, removing region protection doesn't remove the ability for licensing holders of selling a game exclusively in a region.
What you want is what we have on X360 and the result is games like NCAA Football (NTSC release only) being region locked. Can't see how letting the publisher to decide is better than allowing everyone to play any games no matter the origin of their hardware.
Dude, you really REALLY trust these publishers to the point that it's starting to look suspicious.
What are the benefits of letting the publishers decide?
Publishers pressure hardware makers to include region locking. Just like they're trying to push for anti-used game systems right now.
ULTROS!
People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
Not really. I got the RE5 Asian version but my DLC was from the US PSN store. Same goes with ACII.
surely its mostly for sublicensing for third parties? First party games would be easy enough to track international sales, and they're probably not large enough volumes to worry about anyway.
Its the smaller publishers that license out that need those protections. I do think its a little pointless these days, especially with the growth of digital distribution. On the positive side, DD probably means smaller publishers can self-publish globally without the need for publishing partners overseas, unless they want to also publish physically.
For niche games, it's actually backwards. They LOSE sales because of this shitty practice.
It doesn't make sense anyway. Everyone can still import region-locked consoles to play games from other regions. It just costs more. Same for Blurays. It's just anti-consumer and most people won't bother anyway, even if other versions are much cheaper. In my case this is also backwards. I got a region A PS3 and live in Europe, which means I will never ever buy any Region B-locked Blurays. So they lose sales again.
If they really have to do it, do soft-regionlocking - the stuff Sony does with Uncharted2/3 etc. Game has multiple versions and only the versions sold in a country are localized to the language of that country. That way most people will buy that version.
butter_stick
Banned
It's their game. Their investment. Sometimes games have different publishers in different regions. Sometimes publishers just want to cut down on cheaper importing in case it damages their regional businesses. I don't have a sense of entitlement that my desire to play a video game is more important than a publishers finances. There's a reason they do this shit beyond "fuck customers"
I've imported several 360 games that haven't been region locked. Activision ones never are, there's some other publishers who don't seem to do it much either.
MidnightScott
Banned
Importing from Japan is not cheap so Nintendo's region lock is such bullshit. But I am use to it, I first imported a game back in 2006 which was Ouendan. Then I started doing it for Wii games, and now 3DS games.
It's all about each branch having control and the pricing.
It's all about each branch having control and the pricing.
So what you're telling me is that there's no upside at all for customers?
Why exactly should the customers give 2 shits about the publishers?
I can import stuffs from Ikea or what have you from nearly everywhere in the world (if there's someone willing to ship it) and the table I can use it, but a game I can't because the publisher think that he's losing on some revenue?
Heck a better reply would be that it's indeed up to the manufacturer BECAUSE there's a diverse set of law around the world for safety measures and whathaveyou.
If the recording industry is any indication, ignoring and outright insulting your most dedicated fans (because they're the ones who'll be importing your wares) is not exactly a viable option.
Should've known it was someting like this. MS charging anything they can. :|
butter_stick
Banned
There's no upside for customers for publishers to charge for their games. But they do, and we accept it. I'm not telling you to like region locking, I'm just saying I'm mature enough to not act all indignant about it when there's reasons for it from a business point of view. Some people have a crazy sense of entitlement.
Instead of replying to strawman_Mael you can reply to Mael you know?
Ikea doesn't provide furnitures for free either so I'm not even saying that stuffs should be free. I'm saying that literally if you buy a chair in US and come back in the UK, the chair will be compatible with your kitchen which is actually not the case for games.
And there's an upside for customers to having pubs charge retailers for their games (because they're actually never charging end users).
It's not entitlement for customers to ask to not be treated as thieves either, it's called having good customer relationship something this industry is not even aware exists.
butter_stick
Banned
I'm not sure how else to rephrase what I said so rest assured your opinion has been taken on board.
Not to be taken the wrong way but this is the sort of reply I'd expect out of a conversation with a corporate head at a conference.
R_thanatos
Member
Except you should'nt .. you can give me a perfectable explanation why i should jump off a cliff yet i won't because ... well because !!
butter_stick
Banned
brb going to do coke off a striper's tits.
H_Prestige
Banned
When you get used to region free gaming, it's hard to tolerate region locks again. That shit is outdated.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
I hate region locking. It's a big part of the reason why I haven't bought a 3DS yet since I don't know if the games I'm interested in will be heading over.
Thankfully the PS3/PSP/DS don't have that problem.
Basically if I can't import then I'm not likely to buy it.
Thankfully the PS3/PSP/DS don't have that problem.
Basically if I can't import then I'm not likely to buy it.
I don't think it's to shaft customers, I'm sure Nintendo and such probably don't mind us weirdos who want to import super bouncy boob ninjas on 3DS. I think the culprits are the companies who would buy up in bulk in the cheapest market and sell them on in the most expensive market, often not clearly explaining the downsides of having a foreign system (being locked to a store you can't buy things from etc etc).
I remember as a kid I'd pick up my gameboy games from indy shops and half the time they would have US or weird European ratings all over the boxes, very few were legit UK copies.
I remember as a kid I'd pick up my gameboy games from indy shops and half the time they would have US or weird European ratings all over the boxes, very few were legit UK copies.
And that's clearly not a bad thing AT ALL.
Heck I'm fairly sure I got a US copy of Kirby Dream Land 2 and I'm also fairly sure it was never actually released here.
I don't see the downside really.
Zoe
Member
Comparing furniture to technology is ridiculous. You're not dealing with any standards or limitations with a chair. Even with basic appliances, you can't expect to take a US device and plug it into a UK wall.
butter_stick
Banned
The downside was explained above. Mass importing and selling in regions at a lower price than the RRP. Corporations are people. It's like a bunch of immigrants coming in a country and taking everyone's job for 66% the wage.
SMT
this show is not Breaking Bad why is it not Breaking Bad? it should be Breaking Bad dammit Breaking Bad
As much hate as Sony gets, it really looks out for the consumer, instead of buying FIFA 2011 for 39.99, I got it from Europe for 2.95 GBP. You're probably going to save a ton of money if you buy a Sony console.
Everything is uber cheap in Europe. If wanted to import a 3DS or 360 game from overseas for a good price, I wouldn't be able to.
Same thing applies to region specific games that will never show their faces due to poor sales forecasts in the Western market. We can start with the Shinobi High School game for 3ds.
Another example would be the fact that I was able to pre-order Tales of Graces Future Special Day One Edition from Europe, and get all excited because the North-American version did not come with such sweet swag. Best of all, the disk in the box is not a coaster to be admired for its aesthetics, I can actually play the damn thing!
We have a globalized economy on this planet, forcing region-lock is just fluff to make more money.
If a hacker really wanted to hack a system, a region lock on a friken game wouldn't stop him; it's child's play.
I think the extra money you pay for your Sony console is a one-time fee for a region-free license, you have no say in whether or not you want it, just like your school's dental insurance fee, but then later you're glad it came along for the ride. Like when you see your friend drinking vigorously and suddenly tumbling down a flight of stairs only to have his front tooth chipped in half, but then you grab him by the shoulder and tell him: ''Hey it's alright since you have dental insurance''. Or, if you have aching wisdom teeth and want to remove them after years of procrastinating on whether you wanted less teeth, making you one step closer to geezer-hood, and if bearing the pain would be worth it.
Everything is uber cheap in Europe. If wanted to import a 3DS or 360 game from overseas for a good price, I wouldn't be able to.
Same thing applies to region specific games that will never show their faces due to poor sales forecasts in the Western market. We can start with the Shinobi High School game for 3ds.
Another example would be the fact that I was able to pre-order Tales of Graces Future Special Day One Edition from Europe, and get all excited because the North-American version did not come with such sweet swag. Best of all, the disk in the box is not a coaster to be admired for its aesthetics, I can actually play the damn thing!
We have a globalized economy on this planet, forcing region-lock is just fluff to make more money.
If a hacker really wanted to hack a system, a region lock on a friken game wouldn't stop him; it's child's play.
I think the extra money you pay for your Sony console is a one-time fee for a region-free license, you have no say in whether or not you want it, just like your school's dental insurance fee, but then later you're glad it came along for the ride. Like when you see your friend drinking vigorously and suddenly tumbling down a flight of stairs only to have his front tooth chipped in half, but then you grab him by the shoulder and tell him: ''Hey it's alright since you have dental insurance''. Or, if you have aching wisdom teeth and want to remove them after years of procrastinating on whether you wanted less teeth, making you one step closer to geezer-hood, and if bearing the pain would be worth it.
H_Prestige
Banned
So Sony has been screwing themselves out of a lot of money by not region locking? If that were true, they would have started region locking again.
Well for the consumer it has a lot of problems, region locked multiplayer, being stuck with an online store you cannot purchase from etc. Back in the good old days if you got a hong-kong gameboy it made absolutely no difference, but now having the wrong region hardware can mean missing out on a lot of core functionality.
If you've been in a videogame store you'll know how utterly useless half the staff are, I can't imagine them informing a user that the system they are about to buy is $50 cheaper because it's an import and the possible problems that come with that.
On the other hand, you could use that argument to ask why other companies haven't followed suit - and Nintendo's gone in the *opposite* direction.
I think at the moment there's a period of experimentation with a lot of things like this trying to figure out what actually *works* to maximise profit.
There's always workaround though.
Heck here in Europe I'm not even sure we have standardised power outlets even (and there's the problems with safety measure as I said earlier which is why hardware makers should handle that).
Still if I find a program made by the MIT to use on my cpu, I sure as hell don't have to wait for the CERN to provide a similar program because somehow I shouldn't be allowed to use the MIT's version.
Heck I'm pretty sure I can import books without any problem either too.
There's nothing magic with video games that makes publisher's role more special than a book's publisher or another media publisher.
Yeah...NO.
Corporation are made of people, but they're quite clearly NOT people.
And the people complaining about foreigners taking their jobs shouldn't complain that other people do their jobs better than them.
If you can't convince your employers that you should do your job instead of a low wage immigrants that's barely qualified for the job, you've got a bigger problem than immigrants taking your jobs.
Publishers should provide a service that the customers are willing to pay for, simply putting customers behind fences and expecting money to flow is hardly a service.
We're in a globalized world, they also have to deal with it.
Theonik
Member
That was fast.
Whatever the reasons, region locking exists and will continue to exist. As games move to digital it will get worse -- XBL On Demand blocks IPs based on region, and I believe I've heard Steam does the same. I'm sure in general those buying imports account for less than 3% of the purchases (and I'm probably being generous with that statement), so they're an insignificant group compared to providing publishers with peace of mind.
Of course, that brings up another question. Why bother if it's an insignificant portion of the fanbase, anyway? There are folks like me who just outright double dip and buy consoles from other regions, but considering the nature of video games as an extremely cheap 'hobby' you end up with a huge vocal minority that cries foul over the practice. Which spreads and becomes a negative voice towards a lot of people that don't ever buy imports in the first place (or do so once in a blue moon).
Of course, that brings up another question. Why bother if it's an insignificant portion of the fanbase, anyway? There are folks like me who just outright double dip and buy consoles from other regions, but considering the nature of video games as an extremely cheap 'hobby' you end up with a huge vocal minority that cries foul over the practice. Which spreads and becomes a negative voice towards a lot of people that don't ever buy imports in the first place (or do so once in a blue moon).
R_thanatos
Member
You really don't live in europe ... everything cost more for the europeans that's why it's another good option for me to import..
That's why butter_stick is wrong,IMO , as region free doesn't make you massively import EVERY games , so there is always a balance... that's why it worked for sony .. Only a selected part of the consumer base imports and having region free gaming doesn't change that number ... nor do it doesn't kill any companies or the living of people since it facilitate purchases all around the world as long as your product is good ( and we all pay the right fees in each country when we import ).
Who in my country did i hurt when i imported JUMP ULTIMATE STARS on DS ? The creators ? The local publishers that will never pay attention to the game ? the manufacturers that sells more copies ?NINTENDO ? SHONEN JUMP ?
butter_stick
Banned
The odds of me being wrong are slim, to say the least.
jimmypython
Member
This and why there is still no manual mapping for O/X button function on PS consoles are two most confusing questions that I can never figure out why...
R_thanatos
Member
Please tell me who i am hurting when i import project diva for my region free psp.
i imported and finshed the last suikoden on my psp .. Who lost money on that transaction ?( except me ) Who would lose his job if everyone did as i did ?
Or who would lose money when if i could import sengan kagura for the 3ds ..
I'm waiting for your answer
butter_stick
Banned
Starwolf_UK
Member
I'd be happy if hardware manufacturers either made region a deluxe model feature (for people who might move abroad etc) or a switch behind a warranty seal (its not like I've got a warranty on my double dipped hardware) then nothing at all.
It being locked from the outset stops imports and exports of all kinds. Counterfeit ones too whenever it happens for 3DS as the counterfeiter will be left with less profit due to more complicated manufacture process and more excess inventory.
Unless that is there is a secret all regions region code...like there is for DSi (only DSi enhanced game to use it was international version of Pokemon Black/White...which given they came out within 48 hours made it pointless) in which case, never mind.
The truth actually. Nintendo wanted to make sure crash 2.0 did not happen (rampant release of anything) which meant they ran the show and Famicom games would ruin their flow. The grip was a bit tight though and it did them no harm.
Interesting side point but counterfeit copies. Many counterfeit DS games are sold as American copies and treated as such and given the ESRB ratings (usually wrong) consumers think they are. Ironically the region lock further justifies them as they won't boot on a 3DS or DSi and the sellers description would remark the region lock being the reason (whereas a real imported DS game would correctly boot).
It being locked from the outset stops imports and exports of all kinds. Counterfeit ones too whenever it happens for 3DS as the counterfeiter will be left with less profit due to more complicated manufacture process and more excess inventory.
Unless that is there is a secret all regions region code...like there is for DSi (only DSi enhanced game to use it was international version of Pokemon Black/White...which given they came out within 48 hours made it pointless) in which case, never mind.
I thought 360 was a way of making a few more pennies (something like the game needs certs for each region you set it up for) and keeping EA happy (as IIRC all or nearly all EA games are region locked).
What would be neater is if I, the consumer was given the whole candy shop to look at rather than bits NOE have decided I can look at 2 years after the candy went off. Heck given they can track things based off console serials they could pick these based on what their more enthusiastic customers were actually doing.
Shocking4U
Banned
MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ur4XJCm3deQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ur4XJCm3deQ
It's very common across all industry.
My company builds "region lock" into our distribution contracts. Selling our products outside the defined region voids all product warranties to the end user and the distributor forfeits their rebates from us.
Of course, all our products are available globally. In the games industry, that is clearly not the case.
My company builds "region lock" into our distribution contracts. Selling our products outside the defined region voids all product warranties to the end user and the distributor forfeits their rebates from us.
Of course, all our products are available globally. In the games industry, that is clearly not the case.
Believe it or not, in the long term region locking is good for the industry. The people who need to make money, make money, and the industry gets to police its own standards.
At the moment it is only Sony defying this rule, and that is mainly because they are desperate to establish a presence with any means necessary, even if it means hurting customers in the long run. If other hardware builders were to follow suit, you would soon have greater government intervention in terms of trade tariffs and subsidies, not to mention government-controlled watchdog organisations charged with monitoring who is playing what.
I realise people are selfish though, being generally impatient and wanting to play what they want when they want. And then you also have cases of severe incompetence, as recently witnessed with NoA's steadfast refusal to bring this gen's top JRPG to North American shores. But these are things we have to learn to live with, for the long term sake of this industry we all adore.
At the moment it is only Sony defying this rule, and that is mainly because they are desperate to establish a presence with any means necessary, even if it means hurting customers in the long run. If other hardware builders were to follow suit, you would soon have greater government intervention in terms of trade tariffs and subsidies, not to mention government-controlled watchdog organisations charged with monitoring who is playing what.
I realise people are selfish though, being generally impatient and wanting to play what they want when they want. And then you also have cases of severe incompetence, as recently witnessed with NoA's steadfast refusal to bring this gen's top JRPG to North American shores. But these are things we have to learn to live with, for the long term sake of this industry we all adore.
Is this a joke post? I hope it is.
ScepticMatt
Member
to increase prices
R_thanatos
Member
Yep , you're not wrong but you have no exemples to show .. i thought so ...
Western civilisation.
By the way those poeple who have imported the games and the buzz surronding the titles managed to make miku do several LIVE concerts outside of japan all of them made money for the company managing the brand ..
But hey "importing hurts the companies" is something you believe , right ?
You're not wrong , right ?
Aren't you missing some crucial pieces of information ?