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[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

1. not happening
2. maybe? I think the only reason SSDs are so cheap right now is an effort by bigger manufacturers to starve out the little guys, so it's hard to say they'll stay reasonable long-term.
3. This is possible, given the media hub mentality I've been hearing for durango.
4. not happening. Developers would rather make single player look amazing and won't devote the resources to this. That's a lot of pixels to push.
5. A year ago, I would have naysayed this, but I would be surprised if one of the two didn't have this in their system.

Thanks for the replies. I'd like then to big time loss lead this hardware once again in the view that the console isn't for today or next year in that it has to be spec'd out for the next 3-7 years.

That's why I want a number of these features in the next gen hardware, otherwise in say 2-3 years it falls behind PC's really far but quicker than this generation did.

It's amazing how far we've come with consoles and PCs packing this much power. Specs like this would have been ludicrous in the mid nineties.

I'm hoping for vastly improved AI, physics, interactive elements, procedural mechanics and more. If developers use the new resources just for graphics then it's fail big time. We need more developer resources spent on key game elements like AI, physics etc. Game worlds that are always on developing, interacting and generally using the hardware resources for more than just larger redraw distances and higher Levels of Details (LOD) systems.

 

[Reiko]

Not really. The expected jump will be nowhere near the previous generational gaps. A very conservative one, but a welcome one, nontheless...

You had a PC or console comparable to Model 3 specs? Do tell.

 

[USC-fan]

If true this would be the lower end of what I would think they would go with.

Looks to be an APU. This system should be really cheap. If its not a apu at launch it will be in a year or 2.

I hope sony steps up. People needs to stop looking at retail prices on computer parts. that mean nothing.

I hope sony goes with an apu and 8800. Hope is fading. Pretty weak console IMO.

 

[Satchel]

It will just be called Xbox. As in, the new Xbox.

 

[Pistolero]

You had a PC or console comparable to Model 3 specs? Do tell.

Don't understand the point you're trying to make. Would you care to clarify?

 

[Evolution_1ne]

My guess if it's to release this year, (and it should), you'll get news as early as next months Destination Playstation event, and certainly by the end of March at GDC.

 

[Reiko]

Don't understand the point you're trying to make. Would you care to clarify?

The ram jump is huge. Consoles have been starved for RAM for decades.

Back then when you thought your console was powerful, it was way weaker than the type of hardware you saw in the arcades.

A bigger gap from consoles and PCs.

 

[Can Crusher]

I'd prefer to see:

1. 16Gb memory in this HD age & future-proofing

2. SSD over large HDD for performance

3. Potential dual network ports using an aggregate system

4. Multiple screen support so coop on the same console could be done without splitscreen. So many players own multiple screen these days why not suppot two or more monitors to handle two players each with their own controller and screen? Or be able to up the game resolution and split a single player game across 2/3/4 monitors?

5. Streaming built in e.g. YouTube rendering from any game, voice/screen streaming for live game streaming to Twitch or a new XBL service etc.

That's just some ideas but so far the rumours are looking really tame in terms of deliverable features. I hope they get creative.

Yeah I like PC's too. But I don't think any of those will happen, like, at all.

Not on the PC with DX11.

I played it on the PC. Max settings, 1080p...it looks like crap for such a huge game. There are FAR better looking games right now.

 

[DR3AM]

is bluray pretty much confirmed for ps4 and X 8OX?

 

[Pistolero]

It's a 16* jump, a traditional one. The overall package is much more powerful than the preceding console, but the difference is still really small compared to what we had witnessed before. This is the way it is...

it was way weaker than the type of hardware you saw in the arcades

The arcades segment's been dead for years now. Long gone are the days when SEGA would introduce a powerful model, so your comparison is lacking...

 

[pharmboy044]

is bluray pretty much confirmed for ps4 and X 8OX?

Sony is obviously going to go the Blu ray route but Microsoft could still create their own proprietary format like Nintendo did for the WiiU.

 

[Mahonay]

is bluray pretty much confirmed for ps4 and X 8OX?

Yep.

Sony is obviously going to go the Blu ray route but Microsoft could still create their own proprietary format like Nintendo did for the WiiU.

Maybe this though.

 

[Enter The 36 Chambers]

Don't hesit8 to embr8ce the 8.

Fixed

 

[USC-fan]

Sony is obviously going to go the Blu ray route but Microsoft could still create their own proprietary format like Nintendo did for the WiiU.

That would really be a mistake. Wiiu using a bluray drive just doesnt pay so it can play movies.

MS launch an HD-DVD drive so i doubt they would be that stupid to not let people play blu-ray movies.

 

[Reiko]

It's a 16* jump, a traditional one. The overall package is much more powerful than the preceding console, but the difference is still really small compared to what we had witnessed before. This is the way it is...



The arcades segment's been dead for years now. Long gone are the days when SEGA would introduce a powerful model, so your comparison is lacking...

We have PC cards picking up the slack. And even then we will have next gen consoles close to top end PC hardware.

When was the last time we had any console close to arcade power on release?

 

[RukusProvider]

1. not happening
2. maybe? I think the only reason SSDs are so cheap right now is an effort by bigger manufacturers to starve out the little guys, so it's hard to say they'll stay reasonable long-term.
3. This is possible, given the media hub mentality I've been hearing for durango.
4. not happening. Developers would rather make single player look amazing and won't devote the resources to this. That's a lot of pixels to push.
5. A year ago, I would have naysayed this, but I would be surprised if one of the two didn't have this in their system.

Streaming like people do with twitch.tv and such will surely be part of the OS by one of these guys.

 

[RukusProvider]

Sony is obviously going to go the Blu ray route but Microsoft could still create their own proprietary format like Nintendo did for the WiiU.

Not if MS wants to be have the one stop shop box.

 

[crazy monkey]

That would really be a mistake. Wiiu using a bluray drive just doesnt pay so it can play movies.

MS launch an HD-DVD drive so i doubt they would be that stupid to not let people play blu-ray movies.

if that is the case hackers will have the field day with it. with wii you could do anything you wanted stream dvd channels .

 

[regs]

I don't think you know what standby memory is.

Right now my Windows 8 bedroom HTPC, which is just running neogaf and netflix, is using 2160 MB of active RAM and 3626 MB standby. Granted I've got several builds of MSVC in WinSxS loaded from different drivers, and MS can standardize on 1 or 2 sets to reduce memory usage, but even then I'd still be using at least 2 GB with active+standby combined.

Windows 8 never truly shuts down by default. Hybrid shutdown keeps the kernel and several parts of user mode in memory. By keeping that in standby cache, previously opened apps will open directly from RAM...ie instantly. For consoles that's a good idea, because I hate how OS menus laggily load in game.

This isn't 1996 guys. RAM is cheap as hell and can be used not just for active memory, but caching.

SSD--->RAM--->CPU cache
Instant loading

Not
5400 RPM HDD------>CPU

Actually I do know what standby memory is, and I have my page file turned OFF, why is that? I have 32 gigs of memory.

I am USING 4.22gb of ram, I have 25 gigs actually cached. Regardless, having a closed system where it is specified what is to be running and what doesn't (ie, you can't just go install some random program online, it has to be certified etc) I imagine would make memory management much easier. I really do not see how a console OS could take gigs of memory, not when you strip down services and control what is actually running on the device unlike a PC. It all depends what you cut down on and what you want to run. I have several VPS servers where I manage to run lighttpd, mysql, php5, pptpd along with ssh in Debian using less than 32mb. If you know the exact hardware that it is going to be run on, you can squeeze out much more out of it. I REFUSE to believe you will have a console OS that is so bloated that it will use anywhere near that amount of memory. NOT on a system that has fixed hardware. I am sorry, it doesn't make sense.

 

[RukusProvider]

Thanks for the replies. I'd like then to big time loss lead this hardware once again in the view that the console isn't for today or next year in that it has to be spec'd out for the next 3-7 years.

That's why I want a number of these features in the next gen hardware, otherwise in say 2-3 years it falls behind PC's really far but quicker than this generation did.



I'm hoping for vastly improved AI, physics, interactive elements, procedural mechanics and more. If developers use the new resources just for graphics then it's fail big time. We need more developer resources spent on key game elements like AI, physics etc. Game worlds that are always on developing, interacting and generally using the hardware resources for more than just larger redraw distances and higher Levels of Details (LOD) systems.

The fall behind will happen every gen in a similar fashion.

You need to be realistic with your expectation. They're quite silly.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Sony is obviously going to go the Blu ray route but Microsoft could still create their own proprietary format like Nintendo did for the WiiU.

This 'proprietary format' is totally Blu Ray minus video playback (since that would incur a license fee). With their own security sector like Wii disks.

MS will use BR and if they don't want to eat the license cost for video playback, they can do what they did with original Xbox, sell a dongle and make the user pay said fee.

 

[McHuj]

This 'proprietary format' is totally Blu Ray minus video playback (since that would incur a license fee). With their own security sector like Wii disks.

MS will use BR and if they don't want to eat the license cost for video playback, they can do what they did with original Xbox, sell a dongle and make the user pay said fee.

I could see them being more devious and making a BR movie player app only accessible to Live Gold members.

 

[Reiko]

I could see them being more devious and making a BR movie player app only accessible to Live Gold members.

That's just dumb. I hope nobody falls for it.

 

[aegies]

Durango will have blu-ray playback. They know that people want it, and that they expect it.

 

[les papillons sexuels]

Thanks for the replies. I'd like then to big time loss lead this hardware once again in the view that the console isn't for today or next year in that it has to be spec'd out for the next 3-7 years.

That's why I want a number of these features in the next gen hardware, otherwise in say 2-3 years it falls behind PC's really far but quicker than this generation did.



I'm hoping for vastly improved AI, physics, interactive elements, procedural mechanics and more. If developers use the new resources just for graphics then it's fail big time. We need more developer resources spent on key game elements like AI, physics etc. Game worlds that are always on developing, interacting and generally using the hardware resources for more than just larger redraw distances and higher Levels of Details (LOD) systems.

the improvements you're asking for will come via optimization, just look at how far current consoles have come.

 

[Baconsammy]

Don't hesit8 to embrace the 8.

Screw embracing, fel8 the 8!

 

[BoboBrazil]

MS will use blu-ray. They want the 1 set top box future. They won't do anything to risk losing their stake in race. I wonder what Sony has in their next box. I'd imagine they would want to be as powerful or more powerful than the next xbox. Unless Sony does something incredibly stupid I think I'm just going to get a PS4. Free online play, a ton of great first party output, great 3rd party support, the best japanese support, and being gamer friendly makes it an easy decision to get that as a sole console.

 

[Mahonay]

Screw embracing, fel8 the 8!

Fuck yes

 

[CLEEK]

Not really. The expected jump will be nowhere near the previous generational gaps. A very conservative one, but a welcome one, nontheless...

I wouldn't be so sure. While the Xbox3/PS4 won't be at the cutting edge, the time between the start of last gen and this new one should see an equivalent generational jump.

Put it another way, the Xbox3 might have the specs that would have made it cutting edge 1½ years ago. Which would be the same 6 years as the time between PS2 to the start of this gen.

 

[Pitmonkey]

Not on the PC with DX11.

That pictures from Black Ops 1.

 

[Reiko]

That pictures from Black Ops 1.

It doesn't look like that on console for either sequel though.

 

[Router]

is bluray pretty much confirmed for ps4 and X 8OX?

Word is that both use brdvd.

 

[TheGreyHulk]

If true this would be the lower end of what I would think they would go with.

Looks to be an APU. This system should be really cheap. If its not a apu at launch it will be in a year or 2.

I hope sony steps up. People needs to stop looking at retail prices on computer parts. that mean nothing.

I hope sony goes with an apu and 8800. Hope is fading. Pretty weak console IMO.

It's an APU... a MASSIVE APU and it's not weak at all.
APU does not equate to cheap. It's a very large chip from what the rumors are saying. Large complex chips = bitch to manufacture and will more than likely suffer from low yeilds due to errors and also due to the fact that very large chips = less chips per wafer to harvest. There's simply no room for error. Those wafers are expensive. Two compute units in the GPU not able to run at spec? Throw it in the trash. 1 Jaguar CU not firing up? Throw it in the trash. CPU/GPU good but memory controller not working? Throw it in the trash.

Based on the specs, its a very solid console. Even the average PC doesn't have specs this good. It will be solid. We should get some interesting games and much richer worlds

 

[Angelus Errare]

I could see them being more devious and making a BR movie player app only accessible to Live Gold members.

That would be awesomely hilariously sad! Oh man the gaf defense force for that one would be the stuff of legends.

 

[Reiko]

That would be awesomely hilariously sad! Oh man the gaf defense force for that one would be the stuff of legends.

The NPD thread would be the stuff of legends. MS might as well kiss potential buyers goodbye.

 

[Mandoric]

I could see them being more devious and making a BR movie player app only accessible to Live Gold members.

Spoiler

$40 dongle, player app only works with Live Gold. Book it, it's a lock.

 

[yn-neko hates a cat]

Will the 720 drive a 4K 3D display at 60 Hz? That's nearly 1 Billion pixels a second... would having to have ample very fast eDRAM a necessity or a luxury?

Also my contribution to the crazy train:
If (as already stated in thread) 640GB HD = 80 x 8 GB
can we speculate that this is a hybrid SSD hard drive backed by an amount of NAND memory divisible by 8?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

These specs seem pretty good, no?

I feel the PS4 and 720 will be very close in terms of power. Microsoft focusing specific hardware tasks a bit more for OS related items (additional RAM and slightly beefier CPU, mainly), while Sony focusing on a simpler OS but putting more resources into GPU (slightly more power for graphics), but marginally so.

Since the hardware components are looking to be somewhat similar and coming from the same vendor (AMD), I ultimately believe developers will simply target their experiences for whatever machine ends up being less powerful.

Game code should be easily portable at that point, and there's no reason to try and maximize performance for the more powerful console.

In the end, I think multiplats will basically be identical this coming gen...FAR more than they were this gen (which ended up being fairly equal, but with PS3's difficult architecture causing headaches resulting in some ports suffering significantly as a result). I think that's a thing of the past.

So, like I said, next-gen what will really show off the capabilities of a platform (over the other, if there is a marginal difference in power) will come from:

1) Exclusives
2) The talent of the studios making the exclusives -- I think artistic design/production values are going to have a FAR more important role for next-gen visuals than simply pushing more effects and polys on screen. The studios that are capable of putting a lot of financial resources into their art assets will come up on top. Brute forcing graphics won't look anywhere near as impressive without the overall artistic package backing it up.

 

[Reiko]

These specs seem pretty good, no?



Since the hardware components are looking to be somewhat similar and coming from the same vendor (AMD), I ultimately believe developers will simply target their experiences for whatever machine ends up being less powerful.

I doubt it. Target the PC and easily scale down.

 

[Ardenyal]

Spoiler

$40 dongle, player app only works with Live Gold. Book it, it's a lock.

Also ad supported.

 

[Angelus Errare]

The NPD thread would be the stuff of legends. MS might as well kiss potential buyers goodbye.

Gaf Gold would be worth the price for this alone!

Spoiler

$40 dongle, player app only works with Live Gold. Book it, it's a lock.

jackyes.gif

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I doubt it. Target the PC and easily scale down.

PC isn't the target audience.

Target audience is consoles, where bulk of the sales are. That's always been the case and I see no reason why that would change. It makes no sense to target a more powerful PC when the vast majority of sales won't come from that platform. They will focus game design around the lesser powerful console and port to the more powerful one without making a targeted effort to increase performance. This ensures relative parity and lessens development headaches.

 

[creamsugar]

You should never count on the guy 战神blog. Every TGFC member knows that.

 

[Reiko]

The brainchilds behind Project Gotham Racing is up to something...

 

[Karak]

The brainchilds behind Project Gotham Racing is up to something...

Awesome find.

 

[Baconsammy]

The brainchilds behind Project Gotham Racing is up to something...

Are they mutli-plat now? Could this be a PC game?

 

[Angelus Errare]

The brainchilds behind Project Gotham Racing is up to something...

They need to tighten the graphics on level 13

 

[Reiko]

Are they mutli-plat now? Could this be a PC game?

It's either Lucid Games, Playground Games, or somebody from Evolution Studios.

 

[KageMaru]

Did the Xbox 360 ever fully utilize all 3 of its CPU cores for games? If so, how would we know?

All cores were used at launch and it's the efficiency that has improved since then.

i thought a thread was always used for os so technically... no?

The OS uses a lot less. =)

This logic works both ways, otherwise it's supremely flawed. Downplaying the place of 360 in the U.S while overestimating Sony's foothold Europe.

They both have to target U.S and Europe. Japan is the market that can come after.

Yeah you're right. The main reason why I think the US is the best choice is because it's the largest market.

 

[metalslimer]

You should never count on the guy 战神blog. Every TGFC member knows that.

Oh well then...