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[meta4]

Because they desperately need him to be wrong. Go figure. Meanwhile everyone forgets the fact that the best selling console last gen was by far the weakest. Bring on the games and services leaks.

Seriously this. I think the interface ,services and the games is what is finally going to be important now. The graphics are going to be more or less the same .

 

[Can Crusher]

Criticizing someone for using a straw man and then proceed to use the same tactic. Brilliant!

Well yeah, you show it's a dumb argument by showing an argument that follows the same logic and is just as dumb.

 

[i-Lo]

True.





He also said it's 360/PS3 all over again. I don't know how blatant you want him to be without breaking NDA.

This may be a cause for concern. IIRC he works at Ubisoft and their games (AC for example) run better on 360 (more consistent framerate and less tearing from time to time). I hope they can close the gap even further next gen.

 

[CrunchinJelly]

Should he...

a) ...break his NDA and take sides (what would he gaing from that?).

b) ...not break his NDA and give a diplomatic, vague answer.

What would you do?

Excellent so we are now completely ignoring developers.

 

[Reiko]

Should he...

a) ...break his NDA and take sides (what would he gaing from that?).

b) ...not break his NDA and give a diplomatic, vague answer.

What would you do?

He could have easily said one of the consoles has more legroom.

You could say that without breaking NDA. Why would he need to lie?

This may be a cause for concern. IIRC he works at Ubisoft and their games (AC for example) run better on 360 (more consistent framerate and less tearing from time to time). I hope they can close the gap even further next gen.

I'm reading it as similar performance.

 

[deanos]

cry some more. please, its actually very entertaining.

the 720 will be more powerful. happy? great! im happy if you're happy.

Does both have secret sauce?

In real sauce terms, what could it be in each case? Ketchup, soy sauce, Tabasco??

here we go again..

 

[Forsete]

What does chespace think? Or Arne?

Help us out!

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

Maybe he meant their multiplatform title is performing close to parity on both systems. In that case, it could still mean one is more powerful than the other. He's too vague with that statement.

I'm sure one will be more powerful, but the question is if it will be materially different. For instance, expect in rare cases I don't think the multi-plat differences between the 360 vs PS3 were great.

Personally, I hope their performance is about the same. I'm buying both consoles, but I want my buying decisions for multi-plat content to be based on controllers, multi-player and exclusive content.

 

[Jadedx]

This may be a cause for concern. IIRC he works at Ubisoft and their games (AC for example) run better on 360 (more consistent framerate and less tearing from time to time). I hope they can close the gap even further next gen.

No cell to work with.

 

[i-Lo]

No cell to work with.

Someone else can correct me but I do not believe it had anything to do with cell, but rather the split RAM architecture that was the culprit.

 

[deanos]

Someone else can correct me but I do not believe it had anything to do with cell, but rather the split RAM architecture that was the culprit.

Correct.

 

[Monumental]

rofl, i really dont care which console will end up more powerful.
this whole "magic sauce" crap really needs to stop, its embarrassing.

Well you would know a thing or two about embarrassing.

 

[Death Dealer]

Very. Similarly, Beyond3D has taken a real nose-dive as of late. Have to sift through a lot of chaff.

I am fairly certain that at least one of those is not a primary source and that your trust in them actually lay elsewhere.

I think iherre is supposed to be an actual developer from Latin America. I don't know thuway's background, I think he just knows people in the industry. But he seems more informed and has said things that came true more often than some other people on gaf with supposed "insider connections".

I thought this post from a mod on B3D was very interesting.

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1697311&postcount=422

 

[specialguy]

Someone else can correct me but I do not believe it had anything to do with cell, but rather the split RAM architecture that was the culprit.

pretty much both to some extent.

 

[Reiko]

What does chespace think? Or Arne?

Help us out!

You won't hear a peep from those 2, Cliffy B (Who's probably cracking up at this thread), or Stinkles (Who is probably also laughing at these posts).

 

[abadguy]

Seriously this. I think the interface ,services and the games is what is finally going to be important now. The graphics are going to be more or less the same .

And that's fine with me. I'll likely have both as i do now. Bring on the games!

 

[Can Crusher]

Okay cool. There ends the discussion. Why are ppl still pissed now.

Well...because of "this"

 

[meta4]

I think iherre is supposed to be an actual developer from Latin America. I don't know thuway's background, I think he just knows people in the industry. But he seems more informed than some other people on gaf with supposed "insider connections".

I thought this post from a mod on B3D was very interesting.

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1697311&postcount=422

He is an SCEA Dev and has put up some sensible and well reasoned posts.

Well...because of "this"

Lol. That is awesome!

 

[oversitting]

the 720 will be more powerful. happy? great! im happy if you're happy.


here we go again..

Im happy just watching you squirm.

 

[Reiko]

Someone else can correct me but I do not believe it had anything to do with cell, but rather the split RAM architecture that was the culprit.

Split RAM
Challenging nature of off loading GPU functions to the Cell.


But other than that... The Ubisoft open world games fared much better than Bethseda's output.

 

[danwarb]

So speed doesn't matter?

Good, then I can safely recommend that Nvidia 2GB DDR3 GPU over the one with 1GB GDDR5 (more expensive). I had a friend ask me and I wasnt sure, but now its becoming clearer.

Speed matters, but much of the extra bandwidth with DDR5 here would be used up by the same bandwidth intensive stuff being handled on that 32MB ESRAM. It's not so clear.

 

[Baconsammy]

You won't hear a peep from those 2, Cliffy B (Who's probably cracking up at this thread), or Stinkles (Who is probably also laughing at these posts).

Stinkles is laughing at all of us. Damn you, Stinkles.

 

[Gorillaz]

What does chespace think? Or Arne?

Help us out!

Hey Gaf

this guy think Arne from Naughty Dog would actually enter a next gen thread and give out leaks and hints

 

[Death Dealer]

He is an SCEA Dev and has put up some sensible and well reasoned posts.

I know ERP works for SCEA, is thuway a developer too ?

 

[Jadedx]

Edit: nvm, read above post.

 

[oversitting]

pretty much both to some extent.

early on it was the cell

later on it was more the memory but the cell was still there.

 

[Globox_82]

Does both have secret sauce?

In real sauce terms, what could it be in each case? Ketchup, soy sauce, Tabasco??

yes

 

[Forsete]

Hey Gaf

this guy think Arne from Naughty Dog would actually enter a next gen thread and give out leaks and hints

A " " would be enough!

Nah, I don't actually expect them to.

 

[deanos]

Im happy just watching you squirm.

you fanboys are a mystery to me
anyway, at least the secret sauce bullshit stopped.

 

[Globox_82]

I know ERP works for SCEA, is thuway a developer too ?

will someone be kind enough to give me link to these ERP comments, or at least write what he said

 

[szaromir]

I'm sure one will be more powerful, but the question is if it will be materially different. For instance, expect in rare cases I don't think the multi-plat differences between the 360 vs PS3 were great.

Personally, I hope their performance is about the same. I'm buying both consoles, but I want my buying decisions for multi-plat content to be based on controllers, multi-player and exclusive content.

Why would you want platform-exclusive content for multiplatform games?

 

[meta4]

So now that we have reached a consensus that both are nearly the same power wise ( thankfully!) would it be reasonable to assume that they are both easy to develop for as well given the present architecture or are there still a lot of unknowns that prevents anyone from making that statement confidently.

 

[Baconsammy]

Hopefully both companies are smart enough to know that just shooting for straight power is the absolute wrong way to do it. Power works for fanboys on forums(you can spot these people easily by their "Just read the rumors. X is more powerful than Y, lol I'm buying that one. We won") posts, but in the real world it's not the path to success.

you fanboys are a mystery to me
anyway, at least the secret sauce bullshit stopped.

I fear you're not going to survive until E3. Please stop. Don't self-destruct prematurely.

 

[Ponn]

At this point i'm going to be disappointed if one of these two don't include a bottle of secret sauce with every console as a joke.

"Durango Premium Edition with Secret Sauce!"

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

you fanboys are a mystery to me
anyway, at least the secret sauce bullshit stopped.

Why would anyone want a secret sauce that tastes like bullshit?

edit -

So now that we have reached a consensus that both are nearly the same power wise ( thankfully!) would it be reasonable to assume that they are both easy to develop for as well given the present architecture or are there still a lot of unknowns that prevents anyone from making that statement confidently.

The real consensus should be "we don't know and we've got to see the games".

 

[AgentP]

This may be a cause for concern. IIRC he works at Ubisoft and their games (AC for example) run better on 360 (more consistent framerate and less tearing from time to time). I hope they can close the gap even further next gen.

You are expecting them to close a gap that is so small it is imperceptible if it were not for DF telling you it even exists? Expect to be disappointed. Though with MP games, they tend to just aim for parity and not exploit strengths unless they can help get to parity. Most MP devs stayed away from SPU techniques unless they were given on a silver platter by Sony via the dev software (MLAA for example).

 

[Reiko]

So now that we have reached a consensus that both are nearly the same power wise ( thankfully!) would it be reasonable to assume that they are both easy to develop for as well given the present architecture or are there still a lot of unknowns that prevents anyone from making that statement confidently.

If Vita and MS Tools history is anything to go by... All signs point to yes.

That said... Square Enix has no excuse this time.

 

[Gorillaz]

A " " would be enough!

Nah, I don't actually expect them to.

He doesn't post too too much on here. Every once and awhile he might post in a Uncharted or TLOU thread.

Tho the other members of Naughty Dog from what I can tell lurk gaf often. They even mention some of the threads here on twitter lol.

 

[Oemenia]

Sony fans downplaying the MS console, how new...

 

[iceatcs]

Why would you want platform-exclusive content for multiplatform games?

No-one want it but it will happen no matter what.

 

[oversitting]

you fanboys are a mystery to me
anyway, at least the secret sauce bullshit stopped.

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

Why would you want platform-exclusive content for multiplatform games?

I don't, but that's the reality we live in.

 

[Reiko]

You are expecting them to close a gap that is so small it is imperceptible if it were not for DF telling you it even exists? Expect to be disappointed. Though with MP games, they tend to just aim for parity and not exploit strengths unless they can help get to parity. Most MP devs stayed away from SPU techniques unless they were given on a silver platter by Sony via the dev software (MLAA for example).

Even then the MLAA used in GOW3 & Killzone 3 is only applicable if you have the SPU time to afford it.

There's a reason Uncharted 3 and The Last of Us are not using it.

Same for multiplats. The AA solution in AC3 gives similar results to MLAA without a Cell performance cost.

 

[iceatcs]

If Vita and MS Tools history is anything to go by... All signs point to yes.

That said... Square Enix has no excuse this time.

Maybe for Square Enix's western studios.

I don't feel conference on any Japanese studios. They are way behind this gen technically.

 

[Gorillaz]

I see Square next gen having a way better time with the engine. Especially since they are trying to put out more FF in quicker intervals

 

[CorrisD]

He doesn't post too too much on here. Every once and awhile he might post in a Uncharted or TLOU thread.

Tho the other members of Naughty Dog from what I can tell lurk gaf often. They even mention some of the threads here on twitter lol.

They indeed do visit NeoGaf, I remember the Uncharted 3 thread where NeoGaf users complained about the aiming being off from previous games, one of the guys came on and invited whoever could to go to their studios and show them the problem, which ended up with us getting a patch to "fix" the aiming. it's a reason why they are generally views as a great developer on here, that and their games, lol.

 

[Proelite]

Square will make engines that's capable of beautiful looking real time cutscenes.

That's about it.

 

[AgentP]

Even then the MLAA used in GOW3 & Killzone 3 is only applicable if you have the SPU time to afford it.

There's a reason Uncharted 3 and The Last of Us are not using it.

Same for multiplats. The AA solution in AC3 gives similar results to MLAA without a Cell performance cost.

Not really the point. It was developed by Sony and then used later by 3rd party devs. This is the downside of a complicated architecture, devs don't want to get bogged down in tricks. Less dev time means more money.

In the case of MLAA, devs started using the lower IQ FXAA (developed by Nvidia).

 

[specialguy]

Here's a "smart guy from B3D" post about the DMA engines I thought worth reposting here

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1697395&postcount=460

Having data movement engines would make a lot of things a lot simpler to accomplish than they would be otherwise.
Neither Jaguar or GCN would natively have hardware with a concept of a separate fast memory scratchpad, or would have a good way of managing/controlling it.
Rather than try shoehorning in separate checks and data paths into the established pipelines, changing the uncore around them to abstract a big chunk of it away would help immensely.

It may be that the way the system works now that the hooks in the memory controller and related hardware controllers are the only way to make use of the scratchpad. Since the alternative is to replumb the GPU and CPU.

 

[oversitting]

Square will make engines that's capable of beautiful looking real time cutscenes.

That's about it.

maybe this is why there has hardly any good gameplay to FFXIII