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Halo |OT14| They call it Halo

Karl2177

Member
So running away from a fight while looking down, a technique I see often, is as bad as a jetpack?
Is everyone equipped with a jetpack? Can everyone point their aiming stick down?


Not when you incorporate the jetpack into your design. You're applying pre-Reach thinking and conclusions here. Reach had jetpacks but the maps weren't designed well for them - Halo 4 is a different story. You can no longer define player flow strictly through older map design concepts. Hell, flow itself is a different beast in Halo 4.
And look at the map quality in the games with jetpack. Reach had what? Powerhouse, MLG Zealot, Anchor 9. Halo 4 has Haven. Out of 26 brand new maps(not counting any remakes), maybe 4 accommodate the abilities well. That's where I would say it's time to take a look at the abilities themselves instead of the maps.
 

heckfu

Banned
I know it breaks the flow of maps (and I love the thruster pack so it's really a non-issue), but I wish there could've been a way to make jet pack work with bumper jumper.

Same with Reach, too.

edit: actually on a serious note is FIFA enjoyable if you don't like soccer/football? I don't have an appreciation for the sport, but I hear so many good things about each new game. I've thought about giving it a try but have avoided it for that reason.

I wouldn't be a good judge of that, unfortunately. I bought the game secondary to being a fan (same with other sports games).
 
Is everyone equipped with a jetpack? Can everyone point their aiming stick down?
Yeah, everybody can point their stick down ;P And anybody can use the map to get a height advantage. When you use a jetpack to create your own route, you are very exposed, at height, and that's the natural balance to the advantages the jetpack gives you. That and predictable movement. Those are pretty serious risks in a shooting game, and why I drop so many jetpack users. They hang in the air in the way that bricks don't.

And look at the map quality in the games with jetpack. Reach had what? Powerhouse, MLG Zealot, Anchor 9. Halo 4 has Haven. Out of 26 brand new maps(not counting any remakes), maybe 4 accommodate the abilities well. That's where I would say it's time to take a look at the abilities themselves instead of the maps.
So OK, I get it, people don't want AAs. That's a different argument altogether. But among the AAs available in Halo 4, I think jetpack is fine, and balanced.

I'd also disagree that Haven is the only good map, but I play more BTB than Infinity Slayer, and we have smaller map pack thats still on the way.
 
In reach, when you load up the game and your sitting in the lobby at first. I used to like how you could start the countdown, stop it, then the music would stop playing. Very small detail but if im sitting there having a smoke or sending a text or whatever the music gets annoying.

People are going to say mute the tv or whatever, but some of the smallest details that were lost since 343 took over go a long way.
 

Nebula

Member
I was just watching Raging Planet and a thought came to me.

Did Halo 4 have any weather other than calm? I don't remember seeing or hearing anything weather related what so ever. Might have to go back through and see.

Unless I'm missing something about Requiem not being capable of producing other types of weather?
 

PNut

Banned
In reach, when you load up the game and your sitting in the lobby at first. I used to like how you could start the countdown, stop it, then the music would stop playing. Very small detail but if im sitting there having a smoke or sending a text or whatever the music gets annoying.

People are going to say mute the tv or whatever, but some of the smallest details that were lost since 343 took over go a long way.

Yeah I had to load some music on to my Xbox hard drive and choose play music then mute it to get silence while waiting in lobby. Forge is the only lobby where the music stops completely.

Another small sound detail they missed is when you throw a grenade and the "tick" sound happens even though they aren't hitting anything. I noticed that day one messing around in customs.
 
Yeah I had to load some music on to my Xbox hard drive and choose play music then mute it to get silence while waiting in lobby. Forge is the only lobby where the music stops completely.

Another small sound detail they missed is when you throw a grenade and the "tick" sound happens even though they aren't hitting anything. I noticed that day one messing around in customs.

Hadnt noticed this. Now i wont be able to un-notice it. Fuck.
 

Moa

Member
Waking up to find a trailer of Episode 7 and Halsey is slapping Lasky.

Oh man.

EDIT: Went to go watch this on the Waypoint console app, sixty second advert.

What the fuck.
 

Enfinit

Member
A few of the controllers with transforming pads have had issues that I felt. Squeaky triggers, drifting sticks and creaking plastic.

I've had my silver transforming d-pad controller for a little over a year (I think), and the joysticks are starting to get a little loose on me. The right trigger slightly squeaks as well, but for the most part the thing still works like new. I've always treated my electronics wonderfully, and my controller now is just a result of the usual wear and tear, but this is the best controller I've had for the 360.
 
K

kittens

Unconfirmed Member
spongebob_zps897884ea.gif
Haha, perfect.
 

Madness

Member
No, I don't play the fifa games because they have sprint.

lolseewhatididthere

Alright, I'm going to bed before I make any more stupid posts.

edit: actually on a serious note is FIFA enjoyable if you don't like soccer/football? I don't have an appreciation for the sport, but I hear so many good things about each new game. I've thought about giving it a try but have avoided it for that reason.

FIFA and NHL are the better sports games that are released each year. You don't have to be a fan to have fun, though if you don't really watch soccer or hockey or follow, I don't know how much you'd enjoy the game beyond a few matches. Europe is football/soccer mad and so they really get into the seasons etc. And because Madden and NHL aren't exactly as global as fifa, they've been getting a lot less time devoted to it that fifa gets. Download the demos, see how you like them. Beyond that, I've always found picking up the previous years version for dirt cheap is a great way to see if you like them or get into them. EA usually cuts online support after 2+ years, so if you want you can pick up fifa 12 for cheap, download the demo for fifa 13 etc.
 

Omni

Member
On the Infinity mission, why is there only one Mantis? I mean, seriously. During co-op, you've got one person doing all the killing and whoever left doing nothing.

They give you like four Mongooses and two rocket launchers which is great and shows that they were thinking about co-op in some way, but the rockets have maybe... 3, 4... rockets/ammo? What are you supposed to do with that? You'll use them before getting past the first encounter.
 
And I was lurking when those discussions took place... I've been lurking HaloGAF before the launch of halo 3. I didn't have an account for so long, until I got a new isp and felt comfortable signing up.

Just because you had these discussions before us because we didn't have accounts then, means we can't have them now? another main reason I joined is because so many long time haloGAF users have stopped posting and these were people I've played against.

I'd rather read a thousand similar opinions on halo features in the halo ot threads than talk about fifa or insult users and get banned.
FIFA and NHL are the better sports games that are released each year. You don't have to be a fan to have fun, though if you don't really watch soccer or hockey or follow, I don't know how much you'd enjoy the game beyond a few matches. Europe is football/soccer mad and so they really get into the seasons etc. And because Madden and NHL aren't exactly as global as fifa, they've been getting a lot less time devoted to it that fifa gets. Download the demos, see how you like them. Beyond that, I've always found picking up the previous years version for dirt cheap is a great way to see if you like them or get into them. EA usually cuts online support after 2+ years, so if you want you can pick up fifa 12 for cheap, download the demo for fifa 13 etc.
youredoingitwrong.gif
 
I picked up the hypocrisy myself but a fellow junior asked a question and I thought I'd answer. I figured being helpful would get me further than not.

I'd rather talk about halo, good or bad.

No big, I'm just busting your balls.

Wildly off topic posting is strongly encouraged round these parts.
 
Alright, rather than make elaborate write-ups and get left in the dust by Spartan Ops itself, I'm going to attempt to outline my ideal situation for the last few episodes:

Episode 8
CGI Cutscene already discussed.
Chapter One
Your team hijacks up to 4 Liches and engages in an airborne Firefight-like scenario fending off Banshees, Phantoms, and other Liches with your Heavy EMP Cannons. Afterwards you all fly to a docking station on the Cruiser.
Chapter Two
You fight your way through a bunch of rooms in the Cruiser similar to Long Night of Solace. You end up in a central chamber where you actually have to keep one Elite alive so that you can free the imprisoned Arbiter from his suspension in Hardlight shackles. Ending Cutscene features some brief exposition.
Chapter Three
Thorne and Glassman have been detected as prisoners on the Mantle's Commendation. You and the Arbiter have to fight your way through to them with gameplay similar to Gravemind. Arbiter is fairly beefy with decent AI but he can die, which is grounds for failing the mission. There are multiple approaches to areas; the Arbiter still has Camo, like always, so you can actually go through the entire mission without being detected. This mission also has the potential to be largely expositional if you do wait it out and take the stealthy route, revealing a few tidbits - notably that the Didact is back on Requiem but requires an unspecified artifact to be awakened once more. Some UNSC transmissions were also intercepted and 343 Guilty Spark is also alive, took control of an unspecified ship (let's just say the UNSC Cornucopia) and has located the Librarian's Cryptum, which is similar to the Didact's, just blue.
Chapter Four
Once you find Thorne and Glassman you also make your way to an Engine Room to blow up the ship and do an escape sequence. Thorne has half the Arbiter's health but jukes much more frequently whereas Arby is more of a physical tank; Glassman is just a "civilian" with a pistol; high health but stays back. Needler-toting enemies are more uncommon in this mission.
Chapter 5
You're now piloting up to four Liches like last time. The Arbiter is on one Lich as is Glassman. You play in an area similar to Shutdown but it'd have a modified environment to keep things diverse. Your objective is to survive, everyone has one life. You still have your weapons, obviously, but you have to fend off wave after wave of air traffic. Eventually it gets to ridiculously high levels but you hear "We've got a new contact - it's the UNSC Cornucopia!"
-Cutscene-
"How did their ship get access to Requiem's interior coordinates?"
343 Guilty Spark: "All will be explained in due time, Reclaimers. In the meantime, I will see to it that your fireteams may safely return for briefing."
-Massive swarm of Sentinels, Enforcers, and possibly Promethean aircraft (resembling angular Broadswords in speed and power but Falcons in size) come in from that grounded structure and utterly destroy the Remnant air troops-
Miller: "Objective Complete, Crimson. Let's get you back to the Infinity to try and sort this out."

Episode 9 - Revival
UNSC teams on the Cornucopia and Infinity meet up and have the Librarian's Cryptum on an observation deck, with Guilty Spark providing exposition as necessary; the Librarian is revived with pretty surprising ease. She looks different than what we've seen due to her suspended state; she's bluer with more prominent "quills" or feathers on her head as opposed to hair, but still has a headdress; nothing as damn stupid as her Halo 4 incarnation though. She's still humanoid but doesn't have as blatant "curves," instead having her silhouette being mostly made up by mechanical components to her suit/body. Her voice is fragile, like glass - closer to the singer from Haven (Hundred Waters Remix) than her Halo 4 voice. The Librarian informs them that if they can revive the Didact again, she can potentially convert him to a more stable state with a mutation. Due to how recenty he was revived, a failsafe has been enacted; an Index is needed to unlock his Cryptum in stasis once more; he was placed in there again to heal as an emergency failsafe. Palmer directly brings up the whole "space magic" thing and the Librarian clarifies she had no one or two humans in mind; she had sown seeds for progress and humans like Chief and Halsey just happened to be the lucky ones.
Meanwhile, the Arbiter, Halsey, and the Master Chief are all reunited and have some brief exposition - the Arbiter says he can potentially rally a Sangheili army and bring them to Requiem. The Arbiter runs off to see progress with the Oracle. Green and Blue plays and we finally get an in-game confrontation between Chief and Halsey. He informs her of Cortana's death. He asks if he's been everything she's wanted, basically being Chief's mother and all. She replies with "John... you've been swift, strong, brave. You're the soldier we've needed you to be." He pauses briefly before giving her a hug.
-cue audience tears/bro scoffs-
Transition to Gek and Jul. Jul apparently put a monitoring device on the Arbiter and learns that the Master Chief is back and better than ever; if they capture Halsey, essentially his one true emotional crutch at this point, the UNSC will have to meet their demands.
Chapter One
You have to defend the Infinity from waves of invading Remnant troops. Ultimately, Halsey gets captured.
Chapter Two
You go on a torch-and-burn operation to essentially set everything in place for the Didact's awakening. Has the potential to be a gimmick mission, possibly something open for once.
Chapter Three
Not quite sure about this yet. A biggie is that exposition reveals plans for traveling to Installation 03, near Ivanoff station, to go to the Library and get the Index. A few people sound worried because, well, they have Chief's old helmet cams detailing the whole endeavor. The Librarian reminds them that... she's the librarian. Libraries are storehouses for all the species archived and aren't just flood-infected immediately. She can get the Index fairly painlessly, but recommends that the UNSC come with her at least partially.
Chapter Four
Essentially a two-parter with Chapter Five. You learn that all Shield Worlds have at least one teleportation terminal leading to a Halo as a safety measure. Shield World terminals can send users to the Halo freely, but there are some special requirements to get from the Halo to the Shield World in case of things like Flood infection. You're essentially fighting your way to the mass teleporter, which is being seized by Gek.
Chapter Five
Gek boss battle! He's being bolstered by Remnant Honor Guards. Winner gets the awesome prize of getting a mix of first and third-person cutscenes fighting him hand-to-hand once his shields are down. The other Spartans show up in the background holding off the last few Honor Guard troops.

Episode 10 - Nemesis
CG Cutscene
The Librarian, Spark, and the like go through the teleporter first, establishing a base of operations at Installation 03's control room, Index firmly in hand. Similar to the Floodgate ending Cutscene, we get to see the UNSC mobilizing for their trip to the Halo ring. Lasky comforts Chief with some typical "Don't worry, Chief. We'll get her back." lines. Jul has only a small company of Remnant soldiers accompanying him at this time as well as Prometheans. Halsey is with them. Due to coordinate data left over by the Didact's original jump, he simply sends their remaining fleet to Installation 03.
Chapter One
???
Chapter Two
???
Chapter Three
???
Chapter Four
Remnant Drop Pods cover the nearby Ziggurat, with Jul having a sole contingency plan: if he can get to the Didact in time, he can use the Index to activate the Halo rings. It's one massive siege on the control room versus a mix of Honor Guards and Prometheans. You're joined by Miller, Thorne, the Arbiter, Master Chief, Palmer, and the like. It's a mix of Halo 1, 2, and 3 architecture in order to keep the battlefield more open.
Chapter Five
Boss battle against Jul 'Mdama in the Control Room; it features a mix of the architecture from the Alpha and Delta Halo control rooms. The "winner" scores a lethal blow on Jul, but doesn't kill him. As a last-ditch effort he fatally wounds Halsey... right in front of Chief. Yeah.
Cue elaborate cutscene of Jul, with dual energy swords, getting curbstomped by Master Chief. To the point that bones end up broken and everything. The Episode ends with Chief kneeling over the dying Halsey and Halsey "passing away," hallucinating, treating Palmer like Miranda and apologizing for her harshness.

Epilogue
CGI Cutscene:
The Remnant is defeated. The Librarian revives the Didact, whom has a little speech about the Promethean nature of duality and how it extends to technology. When a Cryptum and a Control Room unite (going so far as to having the architecture rearrange to a Combat Evolved-style control room), it allows the user access to a teleportation grid that spans all of Forerunner-controlled space. He "composes" a few marines, stray Remnant troops, Palmer, Miller, Roland, and Crimson. In reality, he teleported them to the Greater Ark as a "test." He begins to Force Choke Chief, only to be interrupted by the Librarian, who has a lengthy discussion with him and ultimately sways him; a mix of that and a Mutation bring him back to his old, Ur-Didact self, and formally places him as an ally. Halsey, unable to be revived physically, has to be Composed...

and becomes Chief's new AI. There may be a snippet in there of her researching the Precursors but nothing major.

The shot could potentially end with a rallying of Sangheili and human troops, and maybe even some Promethean foot soldiers; mechanical in nature of course, but redesigned to not look like utter shit.

Bonus: Legendary Epilogue

In a Mario-style fashion, you have to:
-Beat ALL of Spartan Ops Season One on legendary.
-View all terminals.
-Watch all the CG cutscenes.

This unlocks a final Episode 11, simply titled Epilogue or maybe Legend, Prisoner, etc.

CG Cutscene
The Greater Ark should, for all intents and purposes, look Forerunner... but it doesn't. The technology is bleak, organic, dismal. Almost crustacean-looking. As though a parasite had infected most of it. Cut to Palmer and friends, who are sitting around a fire; they're low on munitions, morale, and numbers. They're actually having heart-to-heart talks. We hear some of Palmer's backstory; it, along with her character development brought on by Halsey, have formed her into a much more believable and relatable character. Eventually, they decide they should attempt to find a vehicle, a teleportation relay, a comm relay, anything. Everybody looks noticeably shaken from sleep deprivation.

Chapter One
You and up to three friends come across a small module made up of the same technology as the rest of the "infecting" tech found on the Greater Ark. Rather than just being picked up like a weapon, it integrates with parts of your suits. Your HUD is rewritten in an incredibly disorienting, even nauseating fashion before fading into something more visible but with way less HUD elements; it looks as though something with compound eyes was meant to read this display. Palmer had Roland steam your helmet cams to try and get a better sense of what's going on.
A voice permeates through your armor; it is direct, distorted, mechanical, and pronounced.
SPECIES AND LANGUAGE RECOGNIZED AS HUMAN. YOU MAY CALL THIS WEAPON THE PROBOSCIS.
It does not seem to have visible ammunition. Almost immediately after being "integrated," you're attacked by Sentinels looking to "purge" you. This is your first time having this problem.

Something is very clearly wrong with you, Crimson.

Chapter Two
You fight your way through a few small areas similar to the first section in The Covenant. Your Proboscis weapon simply destroys Sentinels beyond repair. Eventually, you come across a lone, emaciated Thorn Beast in the middle of the clearing where the Wraith and Prowlers were at the first tower. The voice returns.
CALIBRATE WEAPON ON THORN BEAST.
On organic matter, the weapon operates differently, frighteningly so. Your Proboscis sends out a few concentrated bursts of what can only be described as jet-black "nanite locusts." The Thorn Beast reconfigures into a smaller, but bulkier, hunk of biomass. It moves like a gorilla, following you. You eventually go to the top of the beam tower; the Citadel area is as it was in Halo 3, but is covered in strange new technology. A large creature resembling a Harvester, but mobile, surveys the area. And it spots you.

Chapter Three
The Harvester swipes at the glass casing of the tower, knocking you and your squad down into the muck in first-person. Your "Thorn Beast" survives. You have to damage one of its legs enough to enter the "Harvester," destroying core components within to disable it. It does not look anything like the one you previously encountered on the inside. Parts move and pulsate and breathe.

Chapter Four
COMMUNICATION RELAY DETECTED.
You're given one last waypoint, pointed at the Citadel control room. The Citadel interior is wider than the first one; three Enforcers spot you. A "crate," if it can be called that, holds up to four weapons of the same type of technology. Picking one up modifies your suit further. Your Spartan lets out a wail in anguish when it finishes augmenting you, but it's made you stronger, you can feel it. You jump faster and hit harder. You can fire large clusters of nanolocusts at the Enforcers and they are brought down quickly. You make your way to the last elevator and tension builds. Your Thorn Beast does not join you on the elevator. You can barely understand Palmer, Miller or Roland anymore. They're speaking English, but something just isn't right. At the top of the elevator, you have a clear view down the walkway. It has two legs, long, spindly arms and a bulbous torso, a spine protruding from its back. You don't know what it is, but...

There is something waiting for you at the other side.

Chapter Five
Palmer and Miller look visibly frightened. You try using your Proboscis on it, to no avail. You switch to a Battle Rifle... something's wrong with it. Nothing's changed about it but you can barely hold it anymore. Your hands just aren't meant for it. Trying to reload it bends and contorts the rifle, breaking it. The creature lurches forward and impales Miller. Palmer lets out a scream. One by one, this creature goes from Spartan to Spartan, breaking visors and impaling them in the abdomen. You cough up some blood, which is brownish-black. Small insectoid creatures are swimming through it. Your camera ends on its side, Crimson finished.
OBJECTIVE COMPLETED.

There is one final Cutscene; Palmer is the last one alive. She tries again and again to shoot the creature to no avail; it swipes at her and knocks her unconscious, dragging her body to the control panel of the Citadel. She briefly reawakens, facing the beast. It is now surrounded by a mass of angular limbs similar to those on the Harvester, but smaller in nature. She gives it a look of despair.

"Kill me."

A familiar voice... a timeless chorus responds to her, not from the monster, but emanating from the entire room.

This is not your grave.
You will spread our salvation.


She teleports to the bridge of the Infinity, surrounded by the Didact, Arbiter, Chief, Lasky, and Librarian, making plans. They all react with shock. She somehow stands, visibly battered and bruised, covered in blood and the black nanites. Her voice is now one with the chorus, pulling the Pistol up to her head, struggling to do so.

"We meet again, young ones. I am the last of those that gave you breath and shape and form, millions of years ago. I am the last of those your kind rose up against and ruthlessly destroyed. I am the last Precursor. And our answer is at hand."

The sound of a lone Pistol round punctuates an immediate change to black.
 

Sai-kun

Banned
Good use of the Skee/THX's Revival Remix :D

i just wanna hear the remixes in game and my week will be made. give me all the edm.
 

Mace Griffin

Neo Member
Which part of this do I have wrong?
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=46768681&postcount=5464

The jetpack is balanced. For every advantage it has a disadvantage.

Camo hate I understand, as there's not much in the world more annoying than an invisible sniper. And it leads to people waiting by rocks and squatting around boxes for the easy kill or assassination.

Hardlight shield hate I understand, as its balance requires a teammate to take advantage of a user's exposed flank and rear, but in a 1v1 it just stops things.

But jetpack? I feast upon a steady diet of jetpack users (they make it too easy) and short of squatting up on top of unreachable rocks, which is a map problem, I don't see the issue.

I think the main issue with jetpack is that its not skilful and therefore cheap. Its generally used as a crutch by lesser skilled players as is camo and HLS.

Jetpack in my opinion is the worst when a good player abuses it as it does break maps and unless you use it yourself then you are often at a disadvantage. Its very difficult to counter a player ambushing you from very high which often results in them landing several shots before you even locate their position.

I don't think the maps in Halo 4 balance the AA's at all, including jet pack. I think Halo gameplay combined with AAs is simply not possible to balance. Theoretically you could balance AAs but it would require a drastic redesign of Halo which would be nothing like Halo consequently defeating the purpose. Everyone I know and used to play Halo with think AA's are unbalanced, cheap and a flawed idea. If you watch the pro/ex pro players talking about Halo 4 they make reference to the jetpack being unbalanced and ripe for abuse. There is a halo council video where elamite warrior talks about using the jet pack in matchmaking as its too powerful and map breaking not to use.

Another effect of AAs/perks/loadouts/ordnance is that nobody is equal anymore. A key characteristic of Halo was that all players started on an even playing field, I feel that was one of the many stong features of Halo and what made it such a good game.

There were always some unbalanced weapons in Halo that were typically there to help new players such as the AR in Halo 3 however with Halo 4 343i have dumbed down the entire game I feel to appeal to new players. All the following reduce the skill gap of the game:
-Hitscan precision weapons with lots of aim assist and bullet magnetism
-AA's
-Personal ordnance
-Random map ordnance
-Very powerful automatic weapons with lots of aim assist and bullet magnetism
-Perks
-Instant respawn
-Very slow base movement speed
-Sprint
-Poorly designed maps

I can only assume most of this was by design with the intention of attracting new players however Halo 3 was the most popular Halo on 360 by a long way and also the most skilful, did they not learn from Reach? The more they dumb down the game the less popular it becomes.

There was no need for dumbing down the game, the matchmaking system should do the job of matching new players together until they manage to increase their level of skill.
 

Omni

Member
There's nothing worse then getting to some cover and having some asshole just float on above it and clean you up.

/just had a bad game. Complex is such a bad map. I don't understand why people constantly vote for it... along with Abandon CTF.
 

Mace Griffin

Neo Member
There's nothing worse then getting to some cover and having some fucking asshole just float on above it and clean you up.

/just had a bad game. Complex is such a bad map. I don't understand why people constantly vote for it... along with Abandon CTF.

Exactly.

I agree Complex is awful, it always revolves around people camping on the roofs often with camo and sniper. What made 343 think Abandon would be a good map for CTF?! What were they thinking, its an absolute mess.
 

Moa

Member
Exactly.

I agree Complex is awful, it always revolves around people camping on the roofs often with camo and sniper. What made 343 think Abandon would be a good map for CTF?! What were they thinking, its an absolute mess.
What makes 343 think that CTF will work on any map that isn't symmetrical?

It is quite clear some of these maps were designed with One Flag CTF in mind, but of course, it was cut for whatever reason.
 

Havok

Member
What makes 343 think that CTF will work on any map that isn't symmetrical?
It isn't just a 343 problem, it's a longstanding Halo tradition. Bungie made the same mistakes with such gems as Neutral Bomb Ghost Town and Stockpile Sword Base/Powerhouse. Only difference is that the decision to make asymmetric maps in those past games made sense at some point since they had the gametypes to support them. That 343 didn't design maps that suited the shipping gametype suite is a huge bummer.

Funnily enough, when 343 added Stockpile back into Reach Team Objective, they only put it on symmetric maps like Countdown and Zealot, so they obviously understand the problem, but did it anyway going into H4. If we removed every map from CTF that wasn't truly symmetric, we'd be left with just two, one being a DLC map - the rest are either blatantly asymmetric or give slight advantages to one of the teams like Solace and Ragnarok. At a certain point I wonder when it was decided that Multiflag was going to be the only variant, because it must have been too late to change the map roster.
 
What makes 343 think that CTF will work on any map that isn't symmetrical?

It is quite clear some of these maps were designed with One Flag CTF in mind, but of course, it was cut for whatever reason.

There needs to be a set of universal game laws

"Thou shall not play regular CTF on asymmetrical maps."
 

Moa

Member
It isn't just a 343 problem, it's a longstanding Halo tradition. Bungie made the same mistakes with such gems as Neutral Bomb Ghost Town and Stockpile Sword Base/Powerhouse. Only difference is that the decision to make asymmetric maps in those past games made sense at some point since they had the gametypes to support them. That 343 didn't design maps that suited the shipping gametype suite is a huge bummer.

Funnily enough, when 343 added Stockpile back into Reach Team Objective, they only put it on symmetrical maps like Countdown and Zealot, so they obviously understand the problem, but did it anyway going into H4. If we removed every map from CTF that wasn't truly symmetric, we'd be left with just two, one being a DLC map - the rest are either blatantly asymmetric or give slight advantages to one of the teams like Solace and Ragnarok. At a certain point I wonder when it was decided that Multiflag was going to be the only variant, because it must have been too late to change the map roster.
One of the main reasons I'm happy for this Forge playlist is for more symmetrical maps for CTF.

If CTF was round based on maps like Abandon, Complex and others, then it wouldn't be a huge issue, both teams have the advantage and disadvantage per round.

I really want to hear why a lot of the game types that were cut were, because it has really made the game bland.
 

Mace Griffin

Neo Member
What makes 343 think that CTF will work on any map that isn't symmetrical?

It is quite clear some of these maps were designed with One Flag CTF in mind, but of course, it was cut for whatever reason.

Another bizarre decision by 343 to remove one flag. I think Abandon stands out the most because its just so small.

I miss the days of muti-flag on The Pit and Narrows and One Flag on Last Resort and High Ground. The ranked team objective playlist was amazing in Halo 3 as was social skirmish.
 
One of the main reasons I'm happy for this Forge playlist is for more symmetrical maps for CTF.

If CTF was round based on maps like Abandon, Complex and others, then it wouldn't be a huge issue, both teams have the advantage and disadvantage per round.

I really want to hear why a lot of the game types that were cut were, because it has really made the game bland.

Without having heard contrary, I'm pretty sure it was just time constraints.
 
Not when you incorporate the jetpack into your design. You're applying pre-Reach thinking and conclusions here. Reach had jetpacks but the maps weren't designed well for them - Halo 4 is a different story. You can no longer define player flow strictly through older map design concepts. Hell, flow itself is a different beast in Halo 4.

How are maps in Halo 4 designed for jetpacks?
 

Moa

Member
How are maps in Halo 4 designed for jetpacks?

They don't appear to be, but they are.

I remember when Ragnarok was announced, I think it was Vic DeLeon who said that it was almost the same except for a few tweaks for Jetpacks and other new elements.
 

Overdoziz

Banned
Which part of this do I have wrong?
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=46768681&postcount=5464

The jetpack is balanced. For every advantage it has a disadvantage.
It doesn't break the game, but it does often make anticipating player movement impractical. For example: Someone is on the bottom floor on Prisoner without a jetpack. You see him for a splitsecond and then you lose sight of him. You know there's only a couple of ways up to the other floors so you can anticipate his movement and you make decisions based on that. Had the player at the bottom floor had a jetpack he could've gone to any of the floors without much effort or time. You can't properly predict that kind of stuff. I know some people think a game being predictable is the worst thing since Satan, but I think it has to be like that to up to a certain level. Without the Jetpack you know that people will always be either walking on a surface or jumping near a surface. If you come around the corner knowing there is someone there you have a rough idea of where to aim before even turning the corner. Add in jetpack and all of a sudden people can be practically anywhere in the air on a map, you can't practically anticipate that kind of movement and that really bothers me.

Overdoziz said:
The entire reason why it's broken is because people can just fly where ever the fuck they want. Just look at how the jetpack affects Haven. You can jetpack from pretty much everywhere to the middle, you can jetpack up the hallway drop-downs, you can just fly up and kill people behind cover, all that kind of stuff. People flying straight up in the air and floating there was the least of the jetpack's problems.

Overdoziz said:
The jetpack breaks flow even on hemorrhage and Pinnacle. On Hemorrhage it can negate the flow of the bases. You can jetpack from anywhere around the base up to the base and you can fly from the flag stand up to the top floor. On Pinnacle you can jetpack from red Sniper to red tower, from blue sniper straight up to small tower, from the rocket spawn back up to the blue initial spawn, from the OS bridge up to the middle island, from the bottom of red tower straight up to the top floor of red tower and that's probably only a few of the many ways the jetpack can break those maps.

These maps are obviously not the worst offenders but even on those maps the jetpack can have negative effects. I personally feel like Boardwalk is one of the worst offenders. You can completely ignore the layout of the map and you go anywhere you want. Jetpacking right up to the top Sniper area on that map is just ridiculous. Some for jetpacking away from the rocket spawn, up the plasma launcher spawn, jetpacking from anywhere to the boardwalk/bridge area, up into the pancake house or from anywhere directly to a platform above. And simply putting a roof on top of the map won't fix the problem because there's more to the jetpack than just flying straight up in the air the moment you spawn.

It's also a problem of predictability. You know how when there's no jetpack you can - if you're a skilled player - predict the way the enemy will move around that map? That goes completely out of the window because jetpackers can go anywhere on the map barring places that are blocked off by barriers. Let's say you hear a guy who's jetpacking around the corner and you see a red dot that say that the jetpacker is above your current position. You go around the corner and you have to look up the entire Y-axis before being able to see where he is. With no jetpack you know he is on the ground somewhere making it much easier to locate players quickly. The same issue arises when you're getting shot in the back by a jetpacking and you turn around and try to locate him. It can take an incredibly long time to do so because he can be anywhere in the air. It's frustrating more than anything.

And as a Forger I can tell you that the jetpack limits the way you build your map so much that you're better off ignoring them all together. The jetpack is a Forger's biggest enemy and I image the Halo map designers having similar feelings. The jetpack only works (note: is useless) on a very select few maps and it's not worth catering to. Putting a roof on top of a map doesn't mean it's balanced for the jetpack.
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