second comment nails it:
self-promotion/celebrity. kickstarter manipulated, public conned, mission accomplished...
This is just... depressing. It really is.
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Millionaire tries to get $829 via kickstarter to send daughter to RPG maker camp?
- Thread starter Goon Boon
- Start date
This is just... depressing. It really is.
Dave Meltzer
Banned
"Intentionally or not, the emotional appeal of a girl and her dreams sent the Wilsons and their project flying. Ultimately, this will probably be a good thing for Mackenzie, for the Wilsons, for girls in tech"
God, how is this a "good thing for girls in tech"?
It's like people don't use their fucking brains. There's absolutely nothing stopping females from going to RPG Maker classes. There's no glass ceiling being smashed here. It's like you can just throw feminism in to something and suddenly it's nobel.
God, how is this a "good thing for girls in tech"?
It's like people don't use their fucking brains. There's absolutely nothing stopping females from going to RPG Maker classes. There's no glass ceiling being smashed here. It's like you can just throw feminism in to something and suddenly it's nobel.
evilromero
Member
There are some good comment responses in the Wired article. Essentially anyone could claim they want to create an epic game that will require three years of tuition to make it happen. It's sad that the KS staff can't see this. In the long run it'll only tarnish the legitimacy of the service.
FaustsBoon
Member
Amazing. Tell him I (and I'm sure many GAFfers) want to play it.
Here's a hot spoiler from my industry sources. It'll have werewolves.... ;-)
(His son LOVES werewolves, and is an amazing kid)
As a young child I walked past a table stacked 30 deep of brand new, unopened boxes of Earthbounds for the SNES at our local Toys R Us. They only cost $10. "Next week," my father promised.
But next week never came.
Now, 20 years later, my father has since passed away. I'm looking to Kickstarter to help fulfill the promise he made of me owning a complete and sealed copy of Earthbound.
But next week never came.
Now, 20 years later, my father has since passed away. I'm looking to Kickstarter to help fulfill the promise he made of me owning a complete and sealed copy of Earthbound.
cluxdeluxe
Banned
w
This is the exact opposite of a "good thing for girls in tech". It's playing on the fact that her brother's are putting her down, etc. and she's playing off the angle that she's a girl who wants to prove her brother's wrong. That doesn't help at all.
evilromero
Member
Or maybe this girl just needs a copy of RPG maker to satiate her curiosity with game design. Something tells me it won't last.
Really hate how this article acknowledges the points of the trolls exist, but doesn't try to debunk a single one. It basically says 'if kickstarter accepted it, it's fine, I'm going to ignore her spamming and clear ulterior motives'
Guess it will not go down, but hell, you know what, funding has gone down a bit since this thread first went up and has seemingly stagnated. She can only buy like, 12 pairs of shoes with the left over money, so I guess that's not too bad. Least it didn't go super viral and raise 100k+.
I'm not saying I won't support future Kickstarters, but I will be more likely to pledge to ones of famed or proven people/developers and won't be taking any risks with smaller projects, I just don't have faith in KS for when things fail.
I believe the average person who would see the first picture in the topic post would be driven from pledging to it.
Guess it will not go down, but hell, you know what, funding has gone down a bit since this thread first went up and has seemingly stagnated. She can only buy like, 12 pairs of shoes with the left over money, so I guess that's not too bad. Least it didn't go super viral and raise 100k+.
I'm not saying I won't support future Kickstarters, but I will be more likely to pledge to ones of famed or proven people/developers and won't be taking any risks with smaller projects, I just don't have faith in KS for when things fail.
I believe the average person who would see the first picture in the topic post would be driven from pledging to it.
semiconscious
Member
complimentary 'keep up' shirts to:
eric mack / cnet
nathan hurst / wired
justin kazmark / kickstarter
& thank you for helping to 'keep up' the con! ...
eric mack / cnet
nathan hurst / wired
justin kazmark / kickstarter
& thank you for helping to 'keep up' the con!
...chickdigger802
Banned
Can someone give me a primer on stem? I get what it stands for. Is it an organization, a union?
Or just a broad categorization of a field? Like I got a cs degree am I stem?
Or just a broad categorization of a field? Like I got a cs degree am I stem?
moka
Member
As you already know, STEM stands for science, technology, engineering and mathematics.
I don't think it's an organisation but I'm pretty sure it was coined by the DHS when coming up with policies for immigration.
I do think you have to hold a degree in science, technology, engineering or mathematics to qualify as being in STEM. But again, it's not an organisation, it's just a thing.
chickdigger802
Banned
Okie.
I really do hope this girl does journal entries.
I'm really curious about this rpg maker camp. I think reddit said it was a scam?
Don't digipen or something more reputable have a camp thing?
I really do hope this girl does journal entries.
I'm really curious about this rpg maker camp. I think reddit said it was a scam?
Don't digipen or something more reputable have a camp thing?
theSlacker
Member
A somewhat balanced article on the Huffington Post:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/26/9-year-old-kickstarter-campaign_n_2949294.html
And Susan promises not to keep the money.
There's a world of difference between a millionaire asking for venture capital for a project and a millionaire asking for you to send their daughter to camp for a week.huffpost said:
foobarry81
Member
A little creepy, that.
Now that the project will continue, I am really curious what they are going to do for the 'game' component. I see a few scenerios:
A) They keep pushing it off because 'the little girl is struggling, she is still learning, give her time guys shes only 9!' months of no updates later 'she is still going strong guys, don't worry, we'll have another update soon!'. A year later, there is nothing, everyone forgets it, she laughs all the way to the bank.
B) The game is released either on date or after some delay, it is a bare bones almost game that no one can even prove was made by that specific little girl.
C) The game is released because they pay some guy who knows how to use RPGMaker to 'make a game that looks like a child who only knows how to use RPGMaker a little' made it. This is possible in Scenerio A) as well, keep pushing it back, to give the guy time, then bam, someone else's game made to look legit.
I don't see a 9 year old girl learning RPGMaker in a week, then producing a 'full' game by July 2013. This is the part that screams out to me as 'scam'. If they said like early next year, to give the girl time to learn RPGMaker and actually make a game, then I could have believed it a little bit.
A) They keep pushing it off because 'the little girl is struggling, she is still learning, give her time guys shes only 9!' months of no updates later 'she is still going strong guys, don't worry, we'll have another update soon!'. A year later, there is nothing, everyone forgets it, she laughs all the way to the bank.
B) The game is released either on date or after some delay, it is a bare bones almost game that no one can even prove was made by that specific little girl.
C) The game is released because they pay some guy who knows how to use RPGMaker to 'make a game that looks like a child who only knows how to use RPGMaker a little' made it. This is possible in Scenerio A) as well, keep pushing it back, to give the guy time, then bam, someone else's game made to look legit.
I don't see a 9 year old girl learning RPGMaker in a week, then producing a 'full' game by July 2013. This is the part that screams out to me as 'scam'. If they said like early next year, to give the girl time to learn RPGMaker and actually make a game, then I could have believed it a little bit.
foobarry81
Member
D) The 9yo gets bored after a few days of RPGMaker, realises it´s a whole different deal than playing Borderlands 2 with her dad. Susan Wilson forces her sons to finish the game because of the repeated "Told you so, told you Kenzie couldn´t do it". Game gets delivered by August 2013.
chickdigger802
Banned
Not really familiar with rpg maker, but your typical rpg has quite complex systems in place right? Or is 9 year old math way higher than when i was 9?
Start with something like pong.
Pong rpg.
Start with something like pong.
Pong rpg.
That is a true as well. Hell, I get bored of RPGMaker at any age.
RPGmaker does most things for you if you want it too. It has default values for plenty of things like stats, level up progression, etc, least last I used it. It has a lot of customization as well, and the good RPGMaker games involve a lot of programming too. A 9 year old could certainly make something with it, but I don't see them having the patience to make events and the likes. She will probably drag stuff that looks nice onto a screen, hit play, run around what she made, then quit.
foobarry81
Member
There are one or two people maybe who did so. Meanwhile Susan Wilson´s bff Julie Brown was belittling the job and making fun of the family of a Kickstarter commenter who politely expressed his concern about the project.
So yeah, by all means do feel sick because you feel like you are not in that team...
Edit: It´s not because you´re chosing sides that you necessarily agree with everything every individual of that side says. Also some people might say they belong to a team where in truth they really don´t. The people who sent the death threats might just be people that haven´t even read what it´s all about, but just like to cause an uproar.
Part of the camp is making a game that they can take home. Most likely it's a group effort, so after her paid time at camp, there will be a "game" to send out to backers. People will get their game, the extra money will be stated as going "somewhere" and everyone will forget.
It's hard to beat the little girl card, even when there is zero indication the little girl cares.
I'm just waiting for the troubled older brother, the one that Susan clear has issues with, to let slip his side of the story.
She was? In what way?
Pyramid head
Banned
I vote for 'C', complete with deliberate typos in the game text for authenticity.
voodoopanda
Member
When I was 10-11 I spent a lot of time making games with HyperCard and World Builder or whatever it was called. That was in the mid-90s. They weren't super impressive or anything but I think a 9 year old could handle making a fairly basic RPG with RPG Maker, it does a whole lot for you and putting in simple switches and conversations and stuff isn't too complicated.
I've messed around a little with the free version of RPG Maker you can download on Steam. I imagine the camp will probably go over things like creating characters, items & monsters, creating a map, placing exits/entrances, placing NPCs, adding conversations, doing simple cutscenes and adding battles. That's all that's really needed to make something that has a town to explore with stores, some characters to meet, a world map and a dungeon to beat.
I've messed around a little with the free version of RPG Maker you can download on Steam. I imagine the camp will probably go over things like creating characters, items & monsters, creating a map, placing exits/entrances, placing NPCs, adding conversations, doing simple cutscenes and adding battles. That's all that's really needed to make something that has a town to explore with stores, some characters to meet, a world map and a dungeon to beat.
This is one of the major downsides to Kickstarter in a nutshell and why I stopped after funding just two projects (there was technically a third but I backed out of it). In the "traditional" method of funding projects (venture capitalists, bank loans, small business administration, etc.) you have generally qualified individuals deciding what a new product/service is worth versus how much it will cost to produce and funding it accordingly; they are not, of course, always correct with their decisions, but there is some justification for it.
With Kickstarter you have a lot of projects making far "too much" money because they got linked in the right places or have a nice name attached and you end up with people making a ton of money off the top that they don't need at all for the actual project (as in this case), rushing to add new features to justify all the extra money and bloating the whole thing to a spectacular degree (lot of games do this), not having any idea how to actually produce 10 times what they wanted to make (projects intended to be small batch manufacturing or hand made crafts), etc.
People are just throwing a ton of money at people, far beyond what they actually need, and then they're not able to hold the actual project starter to any kind of production standard outside of "make sure I get the little handout that was promised at my donation level." They don't need a business plan, they don't have any investors or creditors making sure the project stays on track, etc., they can just do things like these people are doing and roll up 5 digits in funding while only needing to produce some crap out of RPG Maker that a literal 9 year old could make.
I don't get it: One of his tweets is about supporting a Kickstarter, but I thought Kickstarter (or an employees of) wasn't allowed to endorse a project. Should be the same exclusion, eh?
You know I don't think this is a scam. What reason would a multi-millionaire have to scam people for a few thousand dollars? She does not need the money. This was just a "fun" project for her daughter that got too much publicity.
I agree it was a stupid kickstarter, it probably at the least bends the rules for what is acceptable. But this was not a "take the money and run" scheme.
I'm sure she's not the only one guiltily of spamming her kickstarter somewhere.
You can be upset with the morons who pledged money to a girl that does not need it at all. But that is their right. People spend money on worse things all the time.
I agree it was a stupid kickstarter, it probably at the least bends the rules for what is acceptable. But this was not a "take the money and run" scheme.
I'm sure she's not the only one guiltily of spamming her kickstarter somewhere.
You can be upset with the morons who pledged money to a girl that does not need it at all. But that is their right. People spend money on worse things all the time.
semiconscious
Member
c'mon, dude - there's always gonna be a fucked-up, extremist fringe element to either side of any issue...
maybe you should seriously consider just coin-flipping your way through stuff like this?
...foobarry81
Member
This guy named Corey Brin was politely explaining why he thought the project was violating the ToS of Kickstarter.
In short: Julie Brown asked him why he wasn´t working (he works with disabled people, something Julie had googled herself already) instead of posting comments on the forum. He said it was his day off. But that wasn´t enough for Ms Brown. She also wanted to know why he wasn´t playing with his kids.
This was from Susan´s self declared best friend (who says she has known Susan for over 40 years), so I don´t think Susan is completely unaware of all of this.
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
It's fucking ridiculous that this is painted as 'Internet Ass Holes VS 9 Year-Old Girl!"
But, whatever. At this point, like you said, it's clear this isn't getting taken down. Be happy knowing the internet hurt it at least. Who knows what crazy amount this would have ended at if it didn't come to light how shady this woman is.
foobarry81
Member
Dude, she made a $10,000 reward tier for a $829 project. This is about making money. See also the Keep Up! brand she´s trying to launch.
Aquamarine
Member
It's 1206% more than the project goal. What on earth are you talking about?
Compared to her net worth.
We know nothing about her present net worth.
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
I'm fairly certain she is a worthless individual.
Only reason I can't agree with this is because A) she tried to get publicity from celebrities and B) she name dropped the Veronic Mars kickstarter.
To me this seems like 'holy shit they reached 2 million dollars so fast, I wonder how much money I could make through kickstarter, my little girl would be the perfect bait, I'll just call anyone against it a troll and a misogynist.'.
Her domain squatting also points to her trying to make big money fast through immoral or shady internet practices.
foobarry81
Member
You make it sound like this is her only project? 10k is not much if you have to live off of it obviously, but for a side project she doesn´t put a whole lot of effort in, I think it´s quite nice.
Also if that Keep Up! brand would take off because of this, she could reel in a whole lot more cash.
How much (on average) is your net profit from your kids going to summer camp?
Pinko Marx
Banned
Just because she is a millionaire (which remains to be proven to me) it doesn't mean she is suddenly above greed or taking what she can from people. Millionaire or not an extra 20k in the bank with very little effort is nothing to just scoff at.
Even still, it's not a scam. She said this kickstarter is to send her daughter to camp. If idiots want to donate more than the necessary ~$900 that is their fault. If she sends her daughter to camp and buys her a laptop for development then bam, goals achieved and delivered. Kickstarter isn't shutting it down so that is in effect saying it fits in their rules.
theSlacker
Member
I'm still convinced that it is to grow that "Keep Up" brand.
Sending her to camp and buying a laptop are both against Kickstarter rules for pledge money. They are essentially saying 'fuck the rules, everyone can do whatever they want' by not stepping in.
There is too much publicity to stop it now anyways, because of so many articles being posted in favor of the mother they would probably have to put up with a lot of shit if they shut it down. I am convinced this is their main reason for not shutting it down.
Technically pretending her daughter wrote the KS pitch is a scam in itself anyways.
foobarry81
Member
They don´t want to be that company that killed a 9yo´s dream obviously. But they are clearly bending their own rules. The project should never have been approved by them. So, well played by Susan Wilson, but it´s still sleazy because of the abuse of gender issues and her children.
foobarry81
Member
Not the first time btw. Her previous KS was about something her sons wanted. And her US Marine Corps husband. Meanwhile she also wanted to start a family business, like now with the Keep Up brand.
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