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NVIDIA: PS4 GPU 3x less powerful than Titan, but more powerful than Xbox 720

ElfArmy177

Member
But it is making a HUGE difference. when I play a game like FIFA 13 and compare it to what is possible on the PC, you know the little things: cloth moving, realistic lighting etc. those things really make a huge difference. You might be satisfied with less and that's all fine, i enjoy FIFA without all the bells and whistles, but objectively speaking the difference are huge, even if it's just a small "feature".

This thread is a mix of people basing their arguments on their satisfaction and not based on facts. (<<<--- not meant for you StealthxHawk)

I agree with you with the physics part of the argument. Physics can make the difference in a game. However the lighting in BF3 from console to PC for the multiplayer portion wasnt so huge it blew my mind. Besides, the next gen console will have no trouble at all with realistic lighting.

Increasing the resolution of a game makes a bigger difference than improving the lighting a few notches for a game. I really think alot of PC elite are confusing an increase in resolution with overall image quality. Ill stick by my words of games on console and PC at the same resolution and texture quality will look so similar most people wont be able to tell the difference
 

FordGTGuy

Banned
Ill stick by my words of games on console and PC at the same resolution and texture quality will look so similar most people wont be able to tell the difference

You heard it hear folks, might as well sell your gaming PCs and go out and buy a PS4(It's a gift from god afterall.).

Dude you're delusional if you think there isn't going to be a perceivable difference between PC and console games in the future.
 

ElfArmy177

Member
Comparable being the keyword here, console games run on custom setups specifically for the hardware.
Like I've said before max means nothing in the grand scheme of things.



I read the end of your post and it was the most nonsensical part of it.

Thats exactly what the console crowds argument is though... Its going to be so custom to the hardware to make it look its absolute BEST with its BEST performance it can do... that it will look almost identical to its PC brother.
 

derExperte

Member
"In order to switch to headphones instead of speakers you have to close your game down, go to sound options, set headphones as default, reboot game, fuck yourself in the ass"

Ever heard of Alt-Tab? Works for me. Or I plug them into my speakers but it's more convenient (and better for the sound quality) to just leave them always connected to my sound card.
 

ElfArmy177

Member
You heard it hear folks, might as well sell your gaming PCs and go out and buy a PS4(It's a gift from god afterall.).

Dude you're delusional if you think there isn't going to be a perceivable difference between PC and console games in the future.

Not at first, no, and your delusional if you think otherwise. Sure, after 2014 and into 2015 you will start seeing a huge difference aside from resolution, but not even close at first. PC games will start doing more of what consoles cant after a few years like tesselation this gen. However as of now, next gen consoles will be able to do whatever a PC can do... just not at its BEST. Keep in mind that I build my own gaming PC... just like you. Im not a console fanboy as your making me out to be, infact I purchased crysis 3 JUST to test my rig.. game was ok though.
 

ElfArmy177

Member
Ever heard of Alt-Tab? Works for me. Or I plug them into my speakers but it's more convenient to just leave them always connected.

of course I have, but when you change the default sound while the game is already loaded it wont change the sound output for the game unless its restarted. Im not just talking about headphones, I also have my PC hooked up to a comp screen for photoshop, and a TV for gaming if I want. I have to reload the game if I forget to change the output to the TV. Not a big deal, but I wish it would just work like I want it to sometimes... lol
 

Daingurse

Member
You heard it hear folks, might as well sell your gaming PCs and go out and buy a PS4(It's a gift from god afterall.).

Dude you're delusional if you think there isn't going to be a perceivable difference between PC and console games in the future.

He didn't say that though. He said most people won't be able to tell the difference between next gen consoles and high end pcs. And considering I know some people who can't see the difference between 30fps and 60fps or a console port running on my gaming rig vs. a console, I am inclined to agree. Beyond the enthusiasts the difference will be minute to most.
 

FordGTGuy

Banned
Not at first, no, and your delusional if you think otherwise. Sure, after 2014 and into 2015 you will start seeing a huge difference, but not even close at first. Keep in mind that I build my own gaming PC... just like you. Im not a console fanboy as your making me out to be, infact I purchased crysis 3 JUST to test my rig.. game was ok though.

that it will look almost identical to its PC brother.

271.gif


He didn't say that though. He said most people won't be able to tell the difference between next gen consoles and high end pcs. And considering I know some people who can't see the difference between 30fps and 60fps or a console port running on my gaming rig vs. a console, I am inclined to agree. Beyond the enthusiasts the difference will be minute to most.

Are you honestly comparing the difference between 30 fps and 60 fps to the difference between graphical fidelity on a console to a PC?

See GIF above.

So, what i was trying to explain is that, to me :
A gears of War, or an Uncharted game with 30fps, 1080p, good enough AA, models and textures, will be prettier than a witcher 3 with 4k and 60 fps.

The latter will have better iq, still, but not noticeable enough to hide the fact that the consoles exclusives have way better art, animation, smarter use of resources, better art direction...

See GIF above.
 
So Nvidia are comparing consoles against the most powerful graphics cards down the years, what's the point in that. They are giving the impression, to me at least with their recent mutterings, that they are quite butt-hurt about their non involvement next-gen.
 

orioto

Good Art™
Dude you're delusional if you think there isn't going to be a perceivable difference between PC and console games in the future.

So, what i was trying to explain is that, to me :
A gears of War, or an Uncharted game with 30fps, 1080p, good enough AA, models and textures, will be prettier than a witcher 3 with 4k and 60 fps.

The latter will have better iq, still, but not noticeable enough to hide the fact that the consoles exclusives have way better art, animation, smarter use of resources, better art direction...
 

Daingurse

Member
Are you honestly comparing the difference between 30 fps and 60 fps to the difference between graphical fidelity on a console to a PC?

See GIF above.

No, you apparently can't read. Those same people who give fuck all about 30fps vs 60fps give fuck all about graphical fidelity too. These people won't see any worthwhile visible difference between games on next gen consoles or high end pcs for several years.
 
So Nvidia are comparing consoles against the most powerful graphics cards down the years, what's the point in that. They are giving the impression, to me at least with their recent mutterings, that they are quite butt-hurt about their non involvement next-gen.

Only thing I get from all this is Nvidia wishes to embarrass AMD by poking fun at the power of the ps3. At the same time they are gaining pc video card sales by belittling consoles.

Not being included in this gens consoles is a good thing for Nvidia, it will push them harder to develop even more amazing video cards that absolutely crap on next gen consoles faster.
 

ElfArmy177

Member
271.gif




Are you honestly comparing the difference between 30 fps and 60 fps to the difference between graphical fidelity on a console to a PC?

See GIF above.

Im sorry you dont agree with some of us, but you seem like the type of guy that shows your xbox buddy battlefield 3 on your PC and going "Look at that pebble, look how much better it looks!" and him going "uh, looks the same" and then getting irritated. I think your looking for a reason to justify spending so much on a PC.
 

FordGTGuy

Banned
Im sorry you dont agree with some of us, but you seem like the type of guy that shows your xbox buddy battlefield 3 on your PC and going "Look at that pebble, look how much better it looks!" and him going "uh, looks the same" and then getting irritated. I think your looking for a reason to justify spending so much on a PC.

Man you guys are funny.

Now you're trying to say there is no perceivable or noticeable difference between BF3 on Xbox 360 and PC?

I'm someone that would rather play Skyrim like this:

Than this:
 

The Jason

Member
PCs are great for the best possible performance, but consoles are a very secure bet in terms of return on your money. That's why I think - along with marketing and simplicity and everything else - people gravitate toward them. You pay relatively little on hardware and you know it'll give you the latest games for years into the future, at the same quality as everyone else using that console. The number one concern of consumers I dealt with when I worked in retail many moons ago was obsolescence. People always wanted to make sure the next iteration wasn't coming around the corner soon. I think 'static hardware' is actually quite comforting to consumers in many ways.

This is very true, in fact most people are surprised when you tell them about a new console, as if they thought the old one would suffice forever. Parents certainly dont want to buy a console if they are just going to have to re-buy it again next year. Even I buy a console thinking that it will last me a few years.

Anyway about the chart, it's just depicting the estimated FLOPS achievable by each GPU. There's obviously other factors which will help determine the overall capability of PS4/720 that are not depicted by the graph.
 

iceatcs

Junior Member
Man you guys are funny.

Now you're trying to say there is no perceivable or noticeable difference between BF3 on Xbox 360 and PC?

For professional/core gamers eyes (and screenshot), will noticeable the difference. I don't think my non-gamer friends will notice at all because it rare to show PC and console in same place and same time.
 

sono

Member
The 720 performance spot is very specific nvidia.

Can you share source ?

3 times the performance for 3 times the price seems reasonable.
 

teo72

Neo Member
I know of a sure way you Pcgamers can ensure pc-superiority gamewise forever. Here it is: STOP PIRATING GAMES!!!
 

Triple U

Banned
After the Unreal 4 PS4 demo and the removal of SVOGI to accomodate weaker console specs, this graph proves once again what many people have been saying ever since the PS4 specs first leaked: this generation is much weaker than PCs compared to previous generations. As with the PS4-UE4 situation, or the previous PS4-Nvidia thread, some people may not like it but it's the truth.

Now that that's dealt with, we have the appearance of a different argument: "LOL you are comparing a 1000$ GPU to a $400-500 PS4". This argument shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the PC hardware market by applying the console pricing model to it. GPUs drop in price much faster than consoles do. In practical terms it means that by the time the PS4 ships it will be outclassed by mid-range GPUs.

Again, some people will not like it. They will doubt it, dispute it, attribute it to "salt" or whatever. Their refusal to face reality is understandable but I'm not going to sugarcoat it so that they feel better.

Okay so first off, I don't know what you hope to gain by harping on epics ps4 demo because it really doesn't represent anything at all other than the state of epics software on the hardware. And it's piss-poor. Almost to the fact that I wonder if there was an underlying motive to maybe get Sony/MS to dive deeper on the GPU budget. It's easily the worst demo shown of PS4 and/or of general next gen.


And as for you're second point, you seem to be on two separate tangents. The Titan is, an almost $1000 Discrete GPU. That won't change by the time ps4 ships this holiday, and it won't change anytime in the immediate future. Any comparison to a ~$400 console where even still the GPU is just a portion of that is fallacious, it reeks of an alterior motive and it rightly deserves redicule.

And even if your prediction is true about how mid range GPUs will outclass ps4 by launch, it matters not so much against how adoption of these parts follows suit, which is pretty mediocre going by historical averages. Not to say anything of a declining GPU and desktop market.


All in all, your post is pretty much the same ole empty points you all needlessly champion about how you could build a PC stronger than a next gen console before it comes out. Points that have never had any meaningful impact on market performance of either platform. People like embellish Nvidias market position and pretend like their shit don't stank, yet they have recently been showing a pretty blatant sign of vexation in how they are preemptively trying to downplay the consoles. I say its because, in the face of declining business, they don't seem to be to confident in being able to sustain its current performance with next gen consoles taking the lions share of the market.
 
If you own an 'average' PC today, I'd imagine you'd have to spend more on incremental upgrades over 7 years than the cost of a launch console to keep your PC at 'better-than-console' performance over that period.

Taking into account the frequent difference in price between console games and PC games, I really don't think so. I believe the money saved from not overpaying on games, peripherals and online services will be more than enough to offset any expenditure on hardware during those 7 years.
 

FordGTGuy

Banned
Taking into account the frequent difference in price between console games and PC games, I really don't think so. I believe the money saved from not overpaying on games, peripherals and online services will be more than enough to offset any expenditure on hardware during those 7 years.

With Steam, Amazon, GreenManGaming and others I've easily not only made up for the price of my PC it's basically paid for itself...

What other platform can you buy a new $50 game a month or two after release for $20-$10 legally.
 

Nizz

Member
Not this shit again, we know and there is no need for weekly reminder. Focus the talk on those amazing cards without trashing consoles.
Yep, of course a card that costs nearly $1000 is going to bring you some high performance. We get it. Just seems to me Nvidia is bitter about losing console business to AMD.
 

TheD

The Detective
when I see the poor framerate on ZOE HD on much powerful GPU ( 6GLOPS vs 250gflops) I say "Edram bandwidth FTW"

?

I hope you are not trying to compare a native game to a PC running an emulator (and the Titan has more bandwidth than the EDRAM in the 360 anyway!).
 
Okay so first off, I don't know what you hope to gain by harping on epics ps4 demo because it really doesn't represent anything at all other than the state of epics software on the hardware. And it's piss-poor. Almost to the fact that I wonder if there was an underlying motive to maybe get Sony/MS to dive deeper on the GPU budget. It's easily the worst demo shown of PS4 and/or of general next gen.

It wasn't. It was better than anything Sony showed except Deep Down (which we still don't know if it's in-game or a tech demo) in terms of technology and scale.

And as for you're second point, you seem to be on two separate tangents. The Titan is, an almost $1000 Discrete GPU. That won't change by the time ps4 ships this holiday, and it won't change anytime in the immediate future. Any comparison to a ~$400 console where even still the GPU is just a portion of that is fallacious, it reeks of an alterior motive and it rightly deserves redicule.

Right. Well here's the deal: the Titan is indeed a $1000 GPU. The Radeon 7970 is a $400 GPU, available today, and it's more than 2x better than the PS4's GPU in theoretical performance. By the time the PS4 launches, Nvidia and AMD will have new graphics cards out that will offer the same performance at a lower price tag. What this means in practical terms: If back in 2005 you needed a $1200 PC to match or exceed console performance, this time you may only need a $500-$600 PC.

And even if your prediction is true about how mid range GPUs will outclass ps4 by launch, it matters not so much against how adoption of these parts follows suit, which is pretty mediocre going by historical averages. Not to say anything of a declining GPU and desktop market.

Let's wait and see on that. Historical averages mean very little when the landscape is so different.


I say its because, in the face of declining business, they don't seem to be to confident in being able to sustain its current performance with next gen consoles taking the lions share of the market.

You can accuse nvidia of many things, but lack of confidence really is not one of them.
 
Only thing I get from all this is Nvidia wishes to embarrass AMD by poking fun at the power of the ps3. At the same time they are gaining pc video card sales by belittling consoles.

Not being included in this gens consoles is a good thing for Nvidia, it will push them harder to develop even more amazing video cards that absolutely crap on next gen consoles faster.

It will be the same as it's always been. New console's come out, and only a small % of pc gamers with high end rigs will have systems on a par or better than the new console's are. Then with each passing month the % of pc gamers with comparable or better systems increases. Next-gen console's don't involve Nvidia, so it would sit easier with me if they let their products do the talking, rather than the nonsense they've been coming out with recently.
 
It will be the same as it's always been. New console's come out, and only a small % of pc gamers with high end rigs will have systems on a par or better than the new console's are.

No, it won't be the same because this time the % of pc gamers with systems on a par or better than the new consoles will be much, much higher.
 
The Ipad today isn´t even close to PS3/360 so that won´t happen.

Hyperbole. What I'm trying to say is that if people are saying the difference between PC and PS4 is negligible, in 4 or 5 years the difference between tablet games and consoles games will be negligible using the same logic.
 

coldfoot

Banned
True, but the other way to look at this is that with the PC you have a choice of game pad, keyboard/mouse, mouse/nostromo type device etc etc etc
Doesn't matter as gaming in front of a TV is far more popular and desirable than gaming on a desk, and any input method besides controller sucks on a couch.

Again that remains to be seen, it offers a whole lot more than those 3D glasses do, and Valve is possibly going to be a major player in its support. I'm going to wager that VR will bring more people into PC gaming than IQ did. It's not the same ballpark in the PC space.
Anything that requires wearing something on your head has NEVER been successful in the consumer space. Nintendo couldn't do it, Sony couldn't do it, all CE manufacturers combined couldn't do it.

Again Star Citizen, Rome II and ArmA 3 are pushing PC hardware in the near future.
Star Citizen is an MMO and we all know MMO's fail outside of WOW or have really tiny userbases. The other games won't sell a million copies combined, if they even get released, which means not many people will buy PC's with high end GPU's to play them. I'm sure their art budgets are a fraction of those for Uncharted/Halo/GTA, etc, so it's debatable that they'll look better than those games to begin with.

That remains to be seen especially as 4K begins gaining prominence and 60fps remains.
4K is not going anywhere in the next 10 years. Viewing distances and TV sizes hit a physical wall so the majority of consumers will see no benefit at 4K. And not only we'll get far more games at 60 fps next gen, but many people remain indifferent to >30 fps as this generation has showed us.

Also the IQ difference was less of a reason compared to better looking multiplats, cheap prices and more exclusives. That's not changing come next gen, especially if the living room PC push is successful.
IQ difference is the ONLY thing that pushes PC graphics, since there is no Halo, God of War, GT5, Uncharted for the PC. The "more exclusives" on PC are focused on the indie scene which do not push graphics at all. The only examples of PC exclusives you gave are Arma, Rome II and an upcoming MMO and even it's not known how far they'll push graphics anyway!

We've reached, or almost reached, the required fidelity levels for most people, true. However, companies will soon start touting and pumping out their ray-tracing engines and the games that will eventually use those will look night and day better than what we have now. I believe it was estimated we would need around 15 to 20tflops to comfortably start running large scale games utilizing ray-tracing - discounting the fact that there will likely be hardware modifications/innovations that improve how efficiently those flops are utilized in a ray-tracing application/engine.

I.e. this graphical power train is not going to be stopping any time soon
In 2020, Consoles can be stuck at 1.2-1.8 Tflops and a $300 GPU might have 20 Tflops, yet still no one's going to make a game designed for 20 Tflops. The age of big budget PC exclusives is over, the last such game was Crysis. No one is going to design a game based on anything more than the PS4 has. They'll just up the resolution and/or framerate with all that PC GPU excess power and the effects of those next gen will be much less than this gen. This is why even me, who builds his own PC's and anything but a casual gamer, gave up on PC gaming as that's not worth the extra hassle PC gaming brings and I presume most people care even less than I do and won't even bother with PC's.
 

Taurus

Member
Man you guys are funny.

Now you're trying to say there is no perceivable or noticeable difference between BF3 on Xbox 360 and PC?

I'm someone that would rather play Skyrim like this:


Than this:
What's the point of this comparison when they are taken from different places?
 
Doesn't matter as gaming in front of a TV is far more popular and desirable than gaming on a desk, and any input method besides controller sucks on a couch.

Comfy couch argument? My PC is hooked up to my TV and I use either a wireless 360 controller or a wireless keyboard to play all my games. Comfy couch was an argument people used 10 years ago, it doesn't work anymore.
 

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
I think people talking about the price of Titan are missing the point. I get the impression they're talking more about the potential for the PC platform as a whole, and that right now you can already buy a GPU that is 3x more powerful than the one in the PS4. Sure, it costs $1000, but it's not like it's going to remain that way for the entire generation. Or the remainder of this year for that matter.

There's no doubt NVidia is butthurt over not winning a console contract, but I guess they see the fact that even at launch PC is going to have an advantage over the new consoles, it's an opportunity for them to reach out to console gamers who are interested in next-gen for it's performance. Why buy a console when you can slap a GPU in your PC that's even better, etc.
 
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