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[Eusis]

Probably a bad idea for a 343 staffer to go and do a presentation saying it was cut due to focus testing then.

Seriously, that presentation was a train wreck. Who in 343 thought giving it was a good idea?

Oh wow, I missed that bit.

I still wonder if focus testing properly could've narrowed down the problems, but maybe it was just a flawed concept to begin? Although if we want a mess just look at SE and Tomb Raider, what the fuck is this emotional synchronization crap?

 

[Dreaver]

Less sci-fi but more fantasy?

Spoiler

Masterchief having super powers

 

[The Librarian]

It's got touches here and there but you're right that it didn't take off until Reach.

Where?

 

[HTupolev]

It's got touches here and there but you're right that it didn't take off until Reach.

How? ODST is if anything stripped down of crazy and modern gameplay mechanics relative to its predecessor. It went back to a Halo 1-like health system, and ditched player equipment use.

 

[Jac_Solar]

Why is player testing such a bad thing at the moment? It sounds like they simply recruit non-gamers off the street. Do they pay random people or something? Of course they will get some non-gamers if that's the case.

They should invite people in, ask them some simple questions about gaming/gaming lore, whatever, and simply choose the people who answered with the most reasonable, sound, and/or correct answers. Even then they should take their responses with a grain of salt.

They could even upload some gameplay slices to their site, choose several reasonable forum posters from their site, and put up a poll, or even a discussion chat channel afterwords.

Unbiased (As in, not a part of the development team.) input can be very valuable.

 

[The Librarian]

How? ODST is if anything stripped down of CoD-like gameplay mechanics relative to its predecessor. It went back to a Halo 1-like health system, and ditched player equipment use.

What CoD-like game mechanics are in Halo 3?

 

[Twilight Gap]

Halo is a thinking-man's game. The universe makes you think. The custom settings make you think. The gameplay makes you think. If we want to make all of this accessible, we can do so by making it simple and straight to the point.

Everybody understands a birthday cake. You have your flavored bread, your icing, your decoration, and your candles. Too much icing, and you'll have a shallow layer blanketing your cake. Too much decoration, and you wont be able to appreciate the design. Too many candles, and they start to melt onto your icing. Not enough bread, and it wont support its weight.

What this delicious analogy means is that you can still have something meaningful and enjoyable while being simple to understand for everybody. Overcrowding it with these things in order to make it "interesting" or "obvious" instead does the opposite. It creates a blanket over the true meat of the game, and in doing so focus is shifted away from that core - from the community - and to the shiny new toys. The birthday becomes about how extravagant the cake is instead of whose birthday it is.

We're here to celebrate the birthday, not to celebrate the cake.

I'm sorry but how is it possible to make a shooter like Halo more accessible?

I don't want to find out.

 

[Eusis]

What CoD-like game mechanics are in Halo 3?

Regenerating health, relatively linear level design divided up by chapters... actually that was all taken from Halo anyway, nevermind that it stuck with health packs in CoD1. Halo 3 was from right before MW1, so it wasn't going to be affected except in a looser (more reasonable) sense.

 

[HTupolev]

What CoD-like game mechanics are in Halo 3?

Health system, even if it didn't originate with CoD it's a big part of modern CoD.

As equipment goes? Mostly I just I wasn't thinking and I mis-typed.

 

[Drencrom]

This is seriously an image they used in their presentation:

I'm sorry but how is it possible to make a shooter like Halo more accessible?

I've only played H4 for an hour on a friends box.

 

[The Librarian]

Regenerating health, relatively linear level design divided up by chapters... actually that was all taken from Halo anyway, nevermind that it stuck with health packs in CoD1. Halo 3 was from right before MW1, so it wasn't going to be affected except in a looser (more reasonable) sense.

What are you trying to say?

Health system, though it didn't originate with CoD.

Mostly I just I wasn't thinking and I mis-typed.

You're not making any sense. How does Halo 3 have CoD-like mechanics if those mechanics didn't originate from CoD, but within the Halo series itself? Halo 3's health system is like Halo 2's. And Halo 2 popularized regenerative health, not CoD.

 

[Ol No Bones]

Halo 4 weapons are not unbalanced. They are almost too balanced. The weapons feel too similar. Changes like throwing the oddball are very fun. Bring back 1 to 50 leveling system, get rid weapon drops and have them spawn the map. Just scrap all your changes 343 add fun physics great graphics and loads of new fun new weapons. This won't happen though.

 

[HTupolev]

You're not making any sense. How does Halo 3 have CoD-like mechanics if those mechanics didn't originate from CoD, but within the Halo series itself?

Association doesn't necessarily have anything to do with origination. If CoD has regenerating health, it makes sense to say that dropping regenerating health makes ODST in at least some respect less like the modern CoD games, regardless of which franchise had that mechanic first.

You're complaining because of the unfortunate implication of my post that Halo 3 was like CoD, which wasn't what I was trying to say. I was just suggesting that if ODST is like CoD, shouldn't Halo 3 be "like CoD" as well? I was pointing out what I thought was absurdity in that argument.

 

[Eusis]

What are you trying to say?

Kind of a bad attempt at humor I guess, though it does seem as if CoD double downed on making that kind of design standard, or at least regenerating health. Probably because games like CoD2 and Gears showed you can skip trying to rationalize it at all.

 

[ebullientprism]

I imagine if Bungle had done something like this with Halo 1, literally none of the covenant weapons would have made the cut.

 

[The Librarian]

Association doesn't necessarily have anything to do with origination. If CoD has regenerating health, it makes sense to say that dropping regenerating health makes ODST in at least some respect less like the modern CoD games, regardless of which franchise had that mechanic first.

You're complaining because of the unfortunate implication of my post that Halo 3 was like CoD, which wasn't what I was trying to say. I was just suggesting that if ODST is like CoD, shouldn't Halo 3 be "like CoD" as well? I was pointing out what I thought was absurdity in that argument.

If we're going by that logic, then ODST was CoD-like too because the first CoD didn't have regenerative health.

 

[HTupolev]

If we're going by that logic, then ODST was CoD-like too because the first CoD didn't have regenerative health.

Depening on how far you want to play around with context, sure. It's entirely possible to extend "CoD-like" to include design of the early CoD games, but most of the time in discussions like this people are referring to the world of CoD4 and beyond.

Aaand we should probably veer off from this whirlpool which is rapidly driving deep into semantics.

 

[The Librarian]

Depening on how far you want to play around with context, sure. It's entirely possible to extend "CoD-like" to include design of the early CoD games, but most of the time in discussions like this people are referring to the thing CoD4 kicked off.

Aaand we should probably veer off from this whirlpool which is rapidly driving deep into semantics.

But regenerative health didn't kick off with CoD4. It kicked off with Halo 2.

 

[Eusis]

But regenerative health didn't kick off with CoD4. It kicked off with Halo 2.

It kicked off with Halo 1. It's just they stopped and thought about how superfluous health packs seemed with regenerating shields, and dropped them. Then brought them back when they saw there was some value to the design afterall.

 

[The Librarian]

I don't see how it kicked off with Halo 1 if Halo 1 didn't have it.

 

[Eusis]

I don't see how it kicked off with Halo 1 if Halo 1 didn't have it.

Errr, it did. Regenerating shields = regenerating health for all intents and purposes, it's the buffer of hits you can take before you die. Nevermind the games that came after clearly taking this cue, like Riddick.

EDIT: And Halo 2 had basically the same thing, your shields would regenerate, though I guess in that case your health quietly regenerated too.

 

[Walshicus]

Can someone explain why making the stick person in the "accessibility" icon a Spartan is offensive?

 

[The Librarian]

Errr, it did. Regenerating shields = regenerating health for all intents and purposes, it's the buffer of hits you can take before you die. Nevermind the games that came after clearly taking this cue, like Riddick.

I see where you're coming from, but they're two separate things. You had your shields, then you're health, which was measured in health bars.

Shields are not what we were talking about when it comes to regenerative health.

 

[Twilight Gap]

Without healthpacks, I don't think I would have enjoyed ODST as much. They could have done something to make us play more like real soldiers and less like Spartans, but in the end I still felt that vulnerability. I play H3 and ODST campaigns very differently, and I don't think the limitations in the latter make it any less enjoyable when fighting the same enemies. It's actually quite the contrary, as it made me approach situations in more strategic and methodical ways and use weapons more effectively. These are things I remember appreciating in the first game back then.

Can someone explain why making the stick person in the "accessibility" icon a Spartan is offensive?

Some interpret 343 saying Halo had to be made "easier" for them to play it because they were "unable to". Others thought it was insensitive towards actual disabled people. I thought it just completely unnecessary, but that wasn't the real issue with that segment.

 

[Feindflug]

I don't get it, why focus test the game? it's freaking HALO ! one of the strongest IPs in the industry today it doesn't need to be "more appealing".

Well that's worrying to say the least....if a franchise as big as Halo won't try new things and is catering to the CoD demographic something is definitely not right.

I'd love to see 343i go crazy in terms of enemies, weapons and why not overall structure with Halo 5 and do their thing with the franchise especially in the campaign but I'm not so sure this is possible anymore if the focus testing influenced Halo 4 that much.

 

[diamount]

I'll never understand the need to emulate COD so much. Do your own damn thing, the people who came for COD will go back to COD with it's next iterative release. That showed when the game's population took a huge nosedive after BLOPS2 coming out and it's rank in the overall Live rankings.

 

[derFeef]

Without healthpacks, I don't think I would have enjoyed ODST as much. They could have done something to make us play more like real soldiers and less like Spartans, but in the end I still felt that vulnerability. I play H3 and ODST campaigns very differently, and I don't think the limitations in the latter make it any less enjoyable when fighting the same enemies. It's actually quite the contrary, as it made me approach situations in more strategic and methodical ways and use weapons more effectively. These are things I remember appreciating in the first game back then.

Loved ODST, and I love healthpacks - but that pulsing was annoying.

 

[Blake'sGrave]

'Contextualise our universe' just sounds like 'justify this not being CoD!'

 

[Twilight Gap]

Loved ODST, and I love healthpacks - but that pulsing was annoying.

I can agree that he damage system wasn't as friendly as it should have been - both with the audio and the UI.

I'll never understand the need to emulate COD so much. Do your own damn thing, the people who came for COD will go back to COD with it's next iterative release. That showed when the game's population took a huge nosedive after BLOPS2 coming out and it's rank in the overall Live rankings.

This so much. If A is selling lemonade and B is selling orange juice, people will pick their favorite and go for it. But if more people are going to the lemonade stand, are you going to ignore the people still getting orange juice from you and start putting lemons into your mix? What becomes of the loyal orange juice goers who still came to you? Is your orange-lemon drink going to attract more people than it's pushing away? Do you think they'll drink it now because it has lemon in it, or was the problem that they didn't like orange in the first place?

I just want a glass of OJ.

 

[AdventureRacing]

I'll never understand the need to emulate COD so much. Do your own damn thing, the people who came for COD will go back to COD with it's next iterative release. That showed when the game's population took a huge nosedive after BLOPS2 coming out and it's rank in the overall Live rankings.

It's the usual thing that happens in gaming where so many pubs/devs seem to think the best way to emulate the sales of the biggest franchises is to emulate the games themselves. This is just so wrong and has led so many companies to financial disaster.

Just because a lot of people are buying COD doesn't mean that everyone wants it. Not to mention that the people who like COD already have a yearly sequel to look forward to. The sooner the gaming industry realises that being a copycat doesn't work the better.

This doesn't just apply to FPS's either. GTA, GT, COD, WoW etc, all the big games like this spawn endless amounts of people trying to latch onto their success and most of them fail.

If 343 truly want to challenge COD next gen it should be by taking halo in a completely different direction to COD, not by copying it.

 

[Twilight Gap]

If 343 truly want to challenge COD next gen it should be by taking halo in a completely different direction to COD, not by copying it.

Yes. Make a CoD killer, not "the next CoD". They already have their next CoD.

My brother is a religious CoD player (no longer acknowledges the existence of other games), but we used to play Halo all the time so I bought him a copy of Halo 4. I told him about ranking up, earning perks, sprinting, CoD controls, and killstreaks in Halo 4. He played it for maybe 2 days before going right back to CoD.

He likes lemon and I like orange. Trying to mix them to get him to like it just leaves us with half n half marketed towards nobody except those who like how "Lemon-Orange" tastes. How ironic is it that making it accessible for everybody instead makes it appeal to few?

 

[Harlock]

I can see why Ryan Payton walk away from 343. Good job, David Ellis.

 

[Eusis]

I see where you're coming from, but they're two separate things. You had your shields, then you're health, which was measured in health bars.

Shields are not what we were talking about when it comes to regenerative health.

I really don't think that matters when it comes to the basic concept that you have a bar of life that will regenerate (and depend on more than health packs) so long as you can avoid fire long enough, but outside of Riddick I can't seem to find many good examples before Halo 2, and even that went halfway in having 4 blocks of health that'd regenerate so long as they weren't fully depleted, so I guess it doesn't really matter.

 

[HollovVpo1nt]

THANKS PIERCE!

Spoiler

How Pierce ruined Inspector Spacetime ?

 

[Satchel]

Stasis gun in Halo?

Fuck that. Would have had to have been veeeeeeery well designed and implemented to work.

Its a slow paced weapon in a semi fast paved world.

no thanks.

 

[SmokedMeat]

I can't believe I'm reading this. TOO SCI-FI?!!

One of my biggest gripes about my boring Halo 4 experience was that the new "alien" weapons were unoriginal. Simple "alien" versions of the same token Earth weapons in every FPS ever.
Did these people ever play a Halo game before? Maybe the Needle Gun should be dropped from the series since it's sci-fi.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

I can see why Ryan Payton walk away from 343. Good job, David Ellis.

Yeah, because Ellis's work in Spartan Ops is responsible for this.

 

[Jackano]

Wow they says they actually made Halo more like... CoD?
That's how you slowly but surely fuck up an IP over time. Can't wait for threads asking for Halo rebooting to its sci-fi roots.

 

[gcubed]

So I played all the Halos except ODST... Sounds like I need to play ODST.

 

[Blueblur1]

To be fair, Josh Holmes later explained that it was meant to reference ease of accessibility (the icon on most PCs is, in fact, the 'wheelchair' symbol) and not 'handicapping Halo' as people assumed.

The imagery is bad, but it's the bullet points that should inspire the most rage.

Edit: "Contextualize our universe" is such bullshit marketing lingo it actually makes me throw up in my mouth a little.

The entire way they're going about making Halo games is flat out disgusting to me as a super hardcore fan. They might as well include a full blown love story in the next one and reduce the multiplayer to single button presses.

So I played all the Halos except ODST... Sounds like I need to play ODST.

You definitely should. It'll be a treat for you now much like how Sonic CD's January 2012 re-release was for me: a classic Halo game in the midst of the recent garbage. Except that it is a tiny bit different.

 

[Feindflug]

So I played all the Halos except ODST... Sounds like I need to play ODST.

ODST is a very good game with some interesting ideas and a fuckin' amazing OST so yes you should play it if you like the series.

 

[Brannon]

So much potential.

Human weapons are good against flesh but bad against shields.

Covenant weapons are good against shields but bad against flesh.

Promethian weapons could've been bad against both, but have the stasis element fuck up the weapons of both humans and covenants so that the rounds coming out of them would be less powerful, so the Promethians can teleport up to your face and melee you with less risk.

Flood don't use weapons so that's why they would've been a threat against the Promethians.

This is going into fanfiction territory, but WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN [/emo]

 

[Hindle]

Halo being Sci Fi is what's kept the series strong in an industry that's dominated by military shooters. They need to be ramping up the Sci Fi instead of toning it down.

 

[InPlosion]

Holy hell, it's not like people needed to go through thousands of pages of a manual to get the hang of halo.

This utterely disgusts me.

 

[Diablohead]

No one uses half the weapons in halo anyway because the DMR is godly.

The railgun is useless against vehicles and doesn't even make them flitch, the brute shot is great but you never really see people use it because all the maps are made for range, the plasma repeater is good but again, long range maps.

And so forth with early every weapon in halo 4.

The AR is good because it's hitscan, the pistol is great and I feel it's the most balanced weapon of them all along with the DMR at medium range, everything else just feels like filler.

 

[Blue Ninja]

No one uses half the weapons in halo anyway because the DMR is godly.

The railgun is useless against vehicles and doesn't even make them flitch, the brute shot is great but you never really see people use it because all the maps are made for range, the plasma repeater is good but again, long range maps.

And so forth with early every weapon in halo 4.

The AR is good because it's hitscan, the pistol is great and I feel it's the most balanced weapon of them all along with the DMR at medium range, everything else just feels like filler.

There's no brute shot in Halo 4.

 

[Diablohead]

There's no brute shot in Halo 4.

Well I mean that weapon which shoots like it, the weird yellow/orange weapon that causes mini explosions on contact. More or less a brute shot. I love using it against warthogs.

 

[Nocturno999]

Why does no one copy the 60fps from cod?

Good question. I always thought that's the main reason why the series are so popular.

 

[amardilo]

I would have loved a more Sci-Fi feel to Halo 4 and adding new weapons with a different feel would have been really interesting as the current weapons all just feel the same.

A stasis gun would have been great fun to use.

Hopefully they can go down more of a Sci-Fi path in Halo 5.

 

[LastNac]

Would have been better than essentially reskinning the human weapons, which is what it pretty much felt like.