-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
After all the fun, what do people think MS will actually do about online on NextBox?
- Thread starter Dead Man
- Start date
BlazingDarkness
Member
I've thought about a subscription style model for a while, I think to some degree it would work, but it poses lots of problems right across the board.
If you look at something like PS+, there is an example of a sub system that could be expanded - but the bulk of the product on offer will be older titles so at large they don't affect publisher yearly revenue targets and whatnot. A PS+ subscription going into next generation could offer a resolution to the no native BC in the console, as users could be given the option to a monthly subscription to access PS1/2/3 back catalog- but (outside of Sony first parties) it wouldn't really work for other publishers because they'd be basically throwing money away.
Your solution is to have the user pay a flat fee to individual publishers, like a yearly pass, (say 80$ for larger publishers and 50$ for smaller) to access their new releases for that year, but, I think it's a flawed system, because from a consumer point of view - what guarantee is there that the publisher will release enough products at a good enough standard to warrant the financial investment? What if we see a plethora of bad ports on the next XBOX and so people feel cheated out of their money? And then you're suggesting that the user pay an extra fee for EACH title on top of the publisher fee, which goes against the Netflix style subscription to something altogether different, and sure to be exploited by the publisher - SE tax anyone?
And from the publisher point of view, are they not leaving money on the table by selling X number of titles for $80 when they could be selling one title at $50 each? Sure, we're living in a world where prices do drop considerably and quite soon after launch, but I still think it's a more profitable system than the one you're suggesting.
Continuing to offer retail releases inline with this subscription would only confuse things further, because you need to think about pricing - prices do drop quickly at retail, could it not be that a customer purchases two titles from a publisher in one year, pays $50 for the two combined, and thus has spent less and been provided with enough to satisfy them, and then there's the subscriber who's spent $80 and may only have purchased a couple themselves, and also had to pay the extra fee on top. AND the former has the ability to trade in their games and make some of that money back. There's also the confusion over selling discs at retail for a system that will only play the discs if it is connected to the internet, which most definitely will cause issues for many uninformed customers.
Then there all of the issues related to licensing in different territories that pose lots of problems internally and would have negative ramifications for customers when they see, for example, that those in the US are offered more/better products for their $80 than someone from a different country. With Netflix, this isn't much an issue because the fee is substantially less, but for $80 (excluding individual game fees) people will notice the difference.
Basically, I think it's a big risk, excluding the elephant in the room that is broadband connectivity across the world, there are loads of different aspects to it that could cause problems. It depends how much MS want to shake things up!
Neuromancer
Member
Honestly I don't know what they're going to do. But if the system is always online and there isn't some incredibly compelling reason for it (I don't even know what that could be), they're potentially handing next gen to Sony on a silver platter.
mentalfloss
Banned
Laugh at what?
Confidence Man
Member
Constant online connectivity will be required for the console to function. Don't have reliable internet or for whatever reason you can't have the console connected when you want to use it? You're not the consumer they care about going forward, it's as simple as that. But what about all the gamers who don't play online? The only gamers they're concerned with are the ones paying regularly for Live Gold, so naturally they'll be online anyway and will have no problems with this.
To sweeten the bitter pill I expect the console to be offered at a cheap subsidized price, severely undercutting Sony. Of course the console will essentially be ad-supported, games will play second fiddle to services, though they'll have enough desirable software to keep the loyal fanbase happy.
Given that it's always online the Silver tier will become the new Gold, with Gold becoming something akin to PS+.
To sweeten the bitter pill I expect the console to be offered at a cheap subsidized price, severely undercutting Sony. Of course the console will essentially be ad-supported, games will play second fiddle to services, though they'll have enough desirable software to keep the loyal fanbase happy.
Given that it's always online the Silver tier will become the new Gold, with Gold becoming something akin to PS+.
Ol No Bones
Banned
. It's a great strategy. If you can market a new hot device at 99 to 199 this could make the average user choose Xbox over the competition. I would be interested in buying it in full but look at the phone market and how well it works. You have a market with three serious players and one reels in the low information persons. I think Microsoft might be able to get huge sales numbers with this approach.
So what he's saying is that always online means something like how a PS3 with PSN+ is handling the updates? sounds like wishful thinking to me at this point. :/
grosvenor_92
Member
Leave it up to the developer/publisher but I'd much rather see the nextbox not have it at all
yep
that is why we all love torrents and are proud that Pirate Bay is of swedish origin
sadly this is what has happening in regards to the used games debate the last few years, and everytime I hear someone talking down used games sales I wonder, what did the industry do to turn that person into their talking doll...
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
i think they definitely have plans to making always-online a requirement.
but they might be drawing back on that plan after their recent focus test.
but they might be drawing back on that plan after their recent focus test.
Laugh at their incompetence plus ignoring all the negative press they've gotten (which is a recipe for disaster).
airmangataosenai
Member
Wouldn't it be hard to remove something integral to the system's design this late in the game?
Audioboxer
Member
I don't think so on a pure software basis (see SimCity offline crack), but it really depends what you've been telling developers/publishers/3rd parties, and what they've been coding/developing.
Conclusion, if it's true, I seriously doubt they can completely remove it - Maybe alter it somehow to seem less like DRM, but that never really works.
if it is the basis of their business model and they have planned and built the business for 720/Durango around this it online only business model would be very hard to change it
Americanmushroom
Banned
I think they'll do it, ... will incorporate ads... making the console waaaay cheaper... Leading to people buying it, cause people are cheap.. leading to winning the generation... wich means it will be the last generation of consoles.
Also they'll do a tablet with buttons and 100% compatible with the 720. Also a reason why the they're wont be a gen after this one
Also they'll do a tablet with buttons and 100% compatible with the 720. Also a reason why the they're wont be a gen after this one
Beer Monkey
Member
It won't be online-only. And it will be backwards compatible. And that will be a megaton.
PaulExcellent
Member
Give zero fucks about our opinion, and add more ads.
SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
Don't think they are stupid enough to implement an always online drm system.
Forceatowulf
G***n S**n*bi
I think it's gonna happen. And it wont matter. People are going to buy the system regardless (me included, if their exclusives look tits). I've seen gamers talk a big fucking game and then not back it up way too many times.
Let's face it, far too many people are beholden to their hobbies.
And besides, if MS can get away with charging people to play online and watch netflix and shit.. why the fuck wouldn't they think they could do just about anything? Because people keep throwing money at them willingly even when they're shoving a hot pipe up their ass. I kind of don't blame them for trying shit like this on their fanbase.
Let's face it, far too many people are beholden to their hobbies.
And besides, if MS can get away with charging people to play online and watch netflix and shit.. why the fuck wouldn't they think they could do just about anything? Because people keep throwing money at them willingly even when they're shoving a hot pipe up their ass. I kind of don't blame them for trying shit like this on their fanbase.
Like Sony's hubris at the start of this gen? "People will buy the PS3 even if it had no games at all!".
I don't know man, I'm sure the Nextbox isn't at all going to be as bad as the latest rumors suggest, but I have at least a tiny bit of faith in the average consumer to make a informed purchasing decision.
I'm thinking they just can't get away with another generation of charging a monthly fee for features that are completely free on everything else. They will have to come up with something new to justify the cost of Live.
I am in the minority but I am hoping Durango go ahead with always online. I was going to get a PS4 anyway but this ensures my mates do as well. So I will have more people to play with on multiplayer. This gen I owned a PS3, but I still had a few mates who owned a 360, it would be great if we all owned the same co sole this time round.
Penguins&PolarBears
Member
I'm really 50/50 on if this is actually happening. I want it to be a feature, but reading the leaked SDK doc it doesn't sound like the feature is in there. They only describe connected standby which means the system downloads updates for games and apps while it is sleeping.
If they're forcing online then it has to be for something major that can sell the device, not DRM.
Totillo speculated it's a cable box or DVR, but I don't see why a cable box would need to be connected to the Internet all the time to play games. Even if it was IPTV.
The fact that the game developers are even in the dark about why it's there makes it more tantalizing to me.
If they're forcing online then it has to be for something major that can sell the device, not DRM.
Totillo speculated it's a cable box or DVR, but I don't see why a cable box would need to be connected to the Internet all the time to play games. Even if it was IPTV.
The fact that the game developers are even in the dark about why it's there makes it more tantalizing to me.
In the end, I think it'll be game/app specific, rather than across the board. And PS4 will be no different.
People who think PS4 won't support always-online games are fooling themselves. Publishers want it and Sony will have to provide the option. Same goes for pre-owned games.
People who think PS4 won't support always-online games are fooling themselves. Publishers want it and Sony will have to provide the option. Same goes for pre-owned games.
I don't think anyone belives PS4 will prohibit always online games. Are they not possible already though?
Yes, they're already possible, but it's not the 'norm' this generation so when Little Johnny picks up his game from Gamestop he won't know any better. Next generation, it's likely to be the 'expectation' if it becomes prevalent, with a "Requires Online Connection" logo on the box.
I still think there's plenty of benefits of this on a per-game basis though. I like the idea of a game being 'live' - where developers can put new things in to your single-player experience at any time. I mentioned it in another thread - but imagine booting up Project Gotham and realising that the London track is filled with bunting on the day of the Queen's Jubilee. Or, events taking place within the world of GTA that are related to today's news. It's all possible - and far more than even I can think of - if a game taken on the 'always online' mentality. It'll mean a game is always offering something new - and isn't static like the games of the past. No messing about with 'expansion packs' either.
Of course, that doesn't apply for every game. And there's no reason why a new 2D Sonic platformer should require 'always online'. So it really should be on a per-game basis.
the PS3 supports always online games, of course the PS4 will support always online games. The 360 supports always online games as well as the Wii U and PC as well. Any console or computer that has online connectivity supports always online games. That "feature" is up to publishers to put in their games or not.
BUT the PS4, unlike Durango, will not be online only
Ah, fair enough.
Penguins&PolarBears
Member
Has the HDMI input on the Durango been pretty much confirmed or shot down?
What do you mean? There is a huge difference which makes perfect sense from what ms has told us in the past. Low powerstate-always-online is fex is a great feature (which the ps4 will also probably have in some form). The 360 is already today an always-online device in a way.
I don't know how this will turn out, I'm just saying.
mysteriousmage09
Member
They will go through with it and use some very good wording to fool people that it is the future and for our own good, and that it will offer endless entertainment and ease and a bunch of other bullshit.
BurnOutBrighter
Banned
alexandros
Banned
I think they'll go through with it, but they will also present enough 'hooks' to convince people to buy the machine. Big exclusives, useful services and some sort of gimmick/selling point to get the mass market on board (maybe home automation?)
I believe that the vast majority of those who complain (even here on GAF) will end up buying the next Xbox, because of brand loyalty or because of exclusives/features that they are really interested in. The dog that barks doesn't bite. Microsoft know this all too well and they're not at all averse to taking huge risks if they think it's the best thing for the company.
I believe that the vast majority of those who complain (even here on GAF) will end up buying the next Xbox, because of brand loyalty or because of exclusives/features that they are really interested in. The dog that barks doesn't bite. Microsoft know this all too well and they're not at all averse to taking huge risks if they think it's the best thing for the company.
DESTROYA
Member
All I know are those with bandwidth caps it's really going to pose problems, especially if someone else in the household wants to go online at the same time.
I really hope it isn't true and we won't know anything until the big reveal but they have to be incredibly arrogant if they think if all XBOX fans think it's a good idea.
If the rumors do turn out to be true I know which next gen console I will be buying.
I really hope it isn't true and we won't know anything until the big reveal but they have to be incredibly arrogant if they think if all XBOX fans think it's a good idea.
If the rumors do turn out to be true I know which next gen console I will be buying.
Depends on what they have to show. My guess is it's gonna be so fresh and awesome that it's gonna sell loads of units despite specs and requirements. Or it will be cheap enough to make people not care about those.
Somehow they made it possible to create the biggest media library from zero within five years. I think it's possible for them to make deals with the major ISPs to exclude 720 traffic from adding to your bandwidth cap.
When that traffic includes netflix, hulu and such, I don't think they will find it that easy.
semiconscious
Member
agreed. they will do this (dictate terms) until it breaks. &, while it's ever so slowly gotten closer to breaking (particularly anywhere that isn't the u.s.), it ain't broke yet
...Well, I'm still wondering how anyone uses Netflix considering bandwidth caps and shitty US Internet speeds. However for some reason it's dann popular and using 25 % of all Internet traffic worldwide. So ... Microsoft might have very good reasons to think those requirements won't make a difference overall. They don't have to sell to the same 75 million people, they obviously want to reach half a billion.
they should be ahppy if they could reach 10 million with a online only console
I think we just got a preview of Microsoft's upcoming PR strategy thanks to that MS mouthpiece at The Verge.