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[soul creator]

It's not a rumour anymore. If Paul says it's true it is true. He doesn't get this stuff wrong.

he turns around and compares it to Windows 8, which does have an "offline" mode for the stuff that doesn't directly require an internet connection. So that kinda contradicts the SimCity-esque worst case scenario everyone is thinking of. My prediction is that used games are effectively gonna be gone, and there will be DRM on retail games, but the DRM is going to be much closer to Steam/iTunes, rather than SimCity/Diablo 3

 

[Unspeakable Evil]

How can this stay always on again?

 

[Zephyrus]

Well I would love if they jumped in and fucked themselves over. But being serious, why would MS do such a crazy thing unless they cooked up some deal together with content providers that was going to deal the killing blow to Sony? If the PS conference is any indication, Activision hasn't yet taken a side in the next gen, so it's not them. Ubi is still supporting the WiiU, so it's not them. It could be cable I guess, but that's not selling a game console.

The deal microsoft has with developers is saying that their system will be free of pirated games.

Forcing people to be online will make them be constantly watched. You pop a pirated game and there goes your account.

And seeing how, in this gen, people who bought games prior to their launch got banned for it... I'm expecting a LOT of unhappy idi... pardon me, consumers.

This feature is highly enticing to publishers. Most likely, many of them will make several strides to make the Nextbox be the most desirable platform. It'll only benefit them, while screwing us.

This will be the gen that give consumers the most power they've ever had.

Get the system that doesn't require you to be online, doesn't make you be constantly monitored and gives you a bit of freedom to do what you want... or get the other one.

Black or White.

Should people vote for the Nextbox, prepare for a dark future.

 

[Kerub]

it will allow you to get constant notifications about what your friends are doing social social social social all the time everywhere.

Yeah, this too. Facebook, twitter etc and Microsofts own social system will probably be very connected to the games. Tweet achievements for instance.

 

[Sorian]

Sure it can happen.

Is MS making it easy? Microsoft isn't doing anything.

We don't know anything. Even if always-online is confirmed, we still don't know how exactly it will work.

We're just pulling things out of our asses, really.

But expecting the next xbox to completely fail is a bit delusional.

Are we just pulling things out of our asses? I think with this source we can at least feel comfortable knowing that MS will be announcing an always online system and I can't think of a way that it could be seen as positive. I know MS will try and they will make grandma believe that it is the best thing ever but it seems odd because usually grandma doesn't have the best internet connection.

Idk I just can already foresee the dissonance between the advertising and the actual thing. The marketing will make the always online look like god mode to the uninformed but the uninformed will make up the majority that get stung by a bad internet connection.

 

[Zephyrus]

How can this stay always on again?

Easy.

Is your system connected to the internet?

If it is, you can play the 60 dollars game you just paid for a lent.

If it isn't you can go play frisbee with the 60 dollars game you just bought.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

I still think Durango will be a success.

- Always online DRM
- Kinect 2.0 focus
- Apparently no interest in courting indies
- Weaker specs than PS4

+ Possibly cheaper than PS4
+ Kinect 2.0 may bring in casuals
+ Has the Halo/Gears/CoD hardcore to lean on
+ Will probably have an eye-wateringly high marketing budget
+ MS will probably throw money at third parties to secure exclusives and exclusive DLC

All they need to do is get Activision to put up exclusive CoD DLC or a timed exclusive release on Durango and throw enough money at third parties in the first year, combined with the 'I play XBOX because my friends do' mentality that XBL created with the 360 and they've already one upped Sony at launch. It's horribly cynical but I think it can happen.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

he turns around and compares it to Windows 8, which does have an "offline" mode for the stuff that doesn't directly require an internet connection. So that kinda contradicts the SimCity-esque worst case scenario everyone is thinking of.

I think your comment before about online activation is the best case scenario, which certainly wouldn't be anywhere near as bad as UPlay or Sim-City. It's still going to mean that an internet connection is a requirement for the system though, which could be a problem for some people. Maybe there will be a SKU with built-in 3G?

 

[DragonSworne]

So what's the problem?

Because he's making an assumption there. He is giving MS the benefit of the doubt that they aren't complete morons to release an always online DRM system.

Of course the next Xbox will work offline, but will it let you play games and apps? Working and being fully functional are not the same things.. The rumors say it's always online and DRM, so far 1/2 is true. Paul says nothing about the second half.

 

[Mandoric]

ATVI has little to gain from this style of DRM. COD players hang onto their discs, and going forward Destiny and Titan will both be always-online as MMOs.

 

[vg260]

So, I think I've seen enough evidence that this thing is gonna require an internet connection in some fashion, but is there enough to say for sure that once you "register" a game, you need one afterwards? (like registering a game on Steam initially). If it works like that and once you register to a console, you can use it offline like a current games on demand game, that seems reasonable to me.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

The only question I care to be answered is whether I'll require a net connection to boot a single player game.

Not because I don't effectively have 100% reliable internet, but because of the principle. I don't get why a company would deliberately introduce a limitation like the above (if true).

We'll see in 6 weeks.

 

[a Master Ninja]

I didnt want to make a thread for this rant so i will put it here.

Why is it still impossible complicated for me to cancel XBL? If you have a credit card attached to the account there is no possible way to cancel it with out calling in.

On Xbox.com, what do you see in "Manage Payment Options"?

 

[Phonomezer]

So it's online but offline too.

Rightyo.

 

[Four_Chamber]

I'm curious to see how this is presented as I doubt its going to be the gamechanger that people here predict/hope it will be. As always, I doubt this particular exchange will have any significant impact other than getting this jackass fired (which I hope happens anyway).

That being said, the problem with Microsoft waiting so long to talk about the console in this era of the internet is that you risk things like this. If they want to continue waiting, they need to tell their employees to shut the hell up.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

So what's the problem?

Folks, the next Xbox is going to require an always-on Internet connection.

The article contradicts itself.

 

[Zephyrus]

oh please master tell us what to to with our money!

for one, not ruin something I like.

You want to fuck yourself over? By all means do it. Just keep me out of it.

I don't want to be targeted as the next one, just because the village idiot decided that it's okay to nosedive from a 50 meters high jump.

 

[Sorc3r3r]

...It's horribly cynical but I think it can happen.

There is no a thing called cynism in the biz world,nor it should.

 

[soul creator]

I think your comment before about online activation is the best case scenario, which certainly wouldn't be anywhere near as bad as UPlay or Sim-City. It's still going to mean that an internet connection is a requirement for the system though, which could be a problem for some people. Maybe there will be a SKU with built-in 3G?

heh, I actually thought of that a while back as well. That's effectively what Kindles had when they were first introduced. And since it would solely be used for authorizing stuff, the data requirements would be somewhat lightweight. Would be a good gesture to the situations where a normal internet connection doesn't work for whatever reason. It does still kind of suck for folks in rural/underdeveloped areas, but if they still have retail games that can be authorized on a system level, that could work.

 

[RedNumberFive]

I believe in some countries and states (in the US) you can cancel it through their website.

But like you said, i had to call in to cancel, and i even had to explain "why" so the young lady could write it down.

Microsoft only let's you cancel online if the local state government commands it. Change your address to somewhere in Illinois and you should be able to cancel online. This is just another example of Microsoft's "consumer-centric" approach.

 

[Unspeakable Evil]

Easy.

Is your system connected to the internet?

If it is, you can play the 60 dollars game you just paid for a lent.

If it isn't you can go play frisbee with the 60 dollars game you just bought.

I can understand being connected to the Internet, but "Always On" makes it sound like you can't turn it off.

 

[Dunlop]

On Xbox.com, what do you see in "Manage Payment Options"?

It was not an option for me maybe 2 years ago, I'm in Canada and when I posted here about it I was told it was because they will not give you the feature unless they are legally required to by that country.

Was living hell to remove, up until I traded in my 360 I just purchased LIVE points from cards

 

[gofreak]

How can this stay always on again?

It'll have a low power state ala PS4.

I think we need a hierarchy of terms

Always-on - means unless you plug it out it'll be 'on' to one or other extent. It will either be fully on or in a low-power standby mode where it can still do certain things.

Always-online - when on it will try to make and keep a network connection and do handy network related things for you. Like patch games or update itself or keep you connected to your friends while you play. Current gen systems have already been billed as 'always online', and have implemented some of these features to greater or lesser extents. Functionality degrades gracefully in the absence of a network connection.

Always-online-required - all software will only function if there is an online connection, will stop functioning if disconnected, regardless of individual software's actual connectivity requirements.

The sticking point with Durango, the controversy, is because it will supposedly be always-online-required, not just 'always-online'.

 

[DesertFox]

I still think Durango will be a success.

- Always online DRM
- Kinect 2.0 focus
- Apparently no interest in courting indies
- Weaker specs than PS4

+ Possibly cheaper than PS4
+ Kinect 2.0 may bring in casuals
+ Has the Halo/Gears/CoD hardcore to lean on
+ Will probably have an eye-wateringly high marketing budget
+ MS will probably throw money at third parties to secure exclusives and exclusive DLC

All they need to do is get Activision to put up exclusive CoD DLC or a timed exclusive release on Durango and throw enough money at third parties in the first year, combined with the 'I play XBOX because my friends do' mentality that XBL created with the 360 and they've already one upped Sony at launch. It's horribly cynical but I think it can happen.

As silly as this sounds when it's said out loud, it really does make sense when you think about it. If you've got 20 of your IRL friends playing on Xbox, why would you want to alienate yourself from that group of friends?

Friends: "Hey guys, wanna play 'insert next-gen title here'
You: "I'd love to but I jumped ship from MS because of their always-online requirement."
Friends: "......why?"
You: "....Because.....NeoGAF/the Internet told me to....."

 

[Acquiescence]

I'm so glad Sony avoided always-online for the PS4 then, otherwise next gen would've been wholly shit before it even started.

 

[LowParry]

Ah, another refuge here on NeoGAF. Is it E3 yet? Can MS just hurry up and tell us what the Durango is all about? Eesh.

 

[Sorian]

I'm curious to see how this is presented as I doubt its going to be the gamechanger that people here predict/hope it will be. As always, I doubt this particular exchange will have any significant impact other than getting this jackass fired (which I hope happens anyway).

That being said, the problem with Microsoft waiting so long to talk about the console in this era of the internet is that you risk things like this. If they want to continue waiting, they need to tell their employees to shut the hell up.

I think the fact that they decided not to counter the unveiling of the PS4 speaks volumes. It wouldn't have been hard to change their time tables so that we could have gotten some concrete info about the system by now but they decided to sit on their hands instead. They are completely to blame for all the rumors currently circulating because they let them fester. At this point, the unveiling needs to be extremely strong to even match up with the PS4 unveiling.

I'm not stupid enough to think that a strong unveiling means much in teh long term of a system but it certainly would help.

 

[RedNumberFive]

I can understand being connected to the Internet, but "Always On" makes it sound like you can't turn it off.

It will probably utilize a low power mode to serve those media rich ads to your console while you sleep.

 

[Osiris]

Semantics and edge cases aside, all I care about is:

Can I play my single player games offline, without interruption or restrictions?

If they answer is yes, I'll probably get an neXtbox, if not, I definitely won't get one.

It really is that simple.

 

[Zephyrus]

So what's the problem?

they work offline. You just can't play with them.

 

[Cidd]

This just keeps getting better, E3 2013 meltdown will be legendary.

 

[Hoo-doo]

As silly as this sounds when it's said out loud, it really does make sense when you think about it. If you've got 20 of your IRL friends playing on Xbox, why would you want to alienate yourself from that group of friends?

Friends: "Hey guys, wanna play 'insert next-gen title here'
You: "I'd love to but I jumped ship from MS because of their always-online requirement."
Friends: "......why?"
You: "....Because.....NeoGAF told me to....."

Are all your friends incapable of making informed purchasing decisions and just buy whatever they have but with a higher number attached?

 

[Sorian]

As silly as this sounds when it's said out loud, it really does make sense when you think about it. If you've got 20 of your IRL friends playing on Xbox, why would you want to alienate yourself from that group of friends?

Friends: "Hey guys, wanna play 'insert next-gen title here'
You: "I'd love to but I jumped ship from MS because of their always-online requirement."
Friends: "......why?"
You: "....Because.....I'm not a moron like you....."

Took care of that for you.

 

[bidguy]

for one, not ruin something I like.

You want to fuck yourself over? By all means do it. Just keep me out of it.

I don't want to be targeted as the next one, just because the village idiot decided that it's okay to nosedive from a 50 meters high jump.

what are you talking about lol
you dont know shit about what MS will introduce and jump to conclusions. try to use your brain instead of making fluffy insults, you cant tell others what to do.

 

[JCreasy]

Why does something that's inherently good and cool require spin?

 

[gofreak]

Semantics and edge cases aside, all I care about is:

Can I play my single player games offline, without interruption or restrictions?

If they answer is yes, I'll probably get an neXtbox, if not, I definitely won't get one.

It really is that simple.

According to Kotaku's rumour, no. Or, at least, not after a few minutes.

It's not simply 'always-online' - it's 'always-online-required', regardless of what network needs the software you want to use actually has.

 

[soul creator]

For PSN games on the current PS3, what is the current DRM policy? How many consoles can you play a PSN game on, when disconnected from the internet? I'm more familiar with how XBLA/DLC works on the 360, (which is ultimately what I think will occur with the next Xbox) but I'm not up to date on how PSN stuff works.

I remember the game sharing stuff from a while back that was pretty flexible, but it got removed. Then I remember the Capcom stories.

 

[JHall]

I can understand being connected to the Internet, but "Always On" makes it sound like you can't turn it off.

You can turn it off, unplug the thing. Always- on isn't that big off a deal to me; my cable box is always-on.

Now requiring a constant Internet connection to function is a whole other ballpark.

 

[DesertFox]

Are all your friends incapable of making informed purchasing decisions and just buy whatever they have but with a higher number attached?

I'm no market analyst, but I guarentee you the uninformed masses that will be making up 90% of Sony and MS next gen purchases have no idea what always online means, and wouldn't find out until their internet service was interrupted. I'm not saying I agree with the policy, and I'm personally against the requirement, just acknowledging the fact that NeoGAF and Reddit are the vocal minority.

Unfortunately the vast majority of people will buy the next XBOX regardless of whether it has DRM or not, purely because it is the next XBOX.

Ditto. No amount of forum-moaning is going to suddenly turn the masses into informed buyers.

 

[Cromat]

I'm guessing they're planning on selling the console subsidized with a contract or subscription. That will be the trade-off they are offering, you can buy a next-gen console for cheap (at least out front) but you have to be online. Lets wait and see if consumers are willing to make that trade-off.

Also I think some people here are maybe taking this too hard. You can just decide not to buy the next Xbox and get a PS4/PC/Whatever instead.

 

[oneils]

I can't wait to read more about why a Microsoft product will be great from Paul Thurrott's Supersite for Windows.

Fuck that noise.

Lol, I understand the skepticism, but Thurrott has been critical of Microsoft. He is a fan, but a critical one.

 

[DragonSworne]

As silly as this sounds when it's said out loud, it really does make sense when you think about it. If you've got 20 of your IRL friends playing on Xbox, why would you want to alienate yourself from that group of friends?

Friends: "Hey guys, wanna play 'insert next-gen title here'
You: "I'd love to but I jumped ship from MS because of their always-online requirement."
Friends: "......why?"
You: "....Because.....NeoGAF/the Internet told me to....."

That's assuming all 20 IRL friends can connect, which is looking more and more like fiction with each always online DRM attempt made.

 

[Kouriozan]

Will be fun to hear Microsoft positive spin for consummer about always online.
Can't wait for the reveal too.

 

[Rösti]

Ah, another refuge here on NeoGAF. Is it E3 yet? Can MS just hurry up and tell us what the Durango is all about? Eesh.

I'd be happy if they simply would announce that Xbox event rumored to happen in May. Or do or say something, like the OurColony ARG they had for Xbox 360 in 2005.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

Are all your friends incapable of making informed purchasing decisions and just buy whatever they have but with a higher number attached?

Unfortunately the vast majority of people will buy the next XBOX regardless of whether it has DRM or not, purely because it is the next XBOX.

 

[Sorian]

I'm no market analyst, but I guarentee you the uninformed masses that will be making up 90% of Sony and MS next gen purchases have no idea what always online means, and wouldn't find out until their internet service was interrupted. I'm not saying I agree with the policy, and I'm personally against the requirement, just acknowledging the fact that NeoGAF and Reddit are the vocal minority.

I'll be the first to say that neoGAF is a definite minority. Reddit though? Idk, a lot of gamers seem to stumble through that quagmire and I like to hope that they leave with at least a little knowledge stuck to them.

 

[Unspeakable Evil]

The worlds "always on" are way to literal.

 

[abadguy]

Lots of people sound like assholes :/ Things like this make me sad.

They're assholes because they like a game you don't? Ok...

 

[stktt]

It will probably utilize a low power mode to serve those media rich ads to your console while you sleep.

Or ensuring that any patches, updates, and downloads can be handled without manually using the console. I'm fine with a console that's always connected in that sense. It's the restriction on single player or offline games that leaves me apprehensive.

 

[milsorgen]

So what is the positive, Microsoft?

That devs can count on a less fragmented user base since PS4 keeps looking better and better.