• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

Xbox v.Next and Only Online by Paul Thurrott: Deal With It :)

megashock5

Member
May 16, 2005
5,110
0
0
50
So if it's all about the games, you're fine with none of your 720 games working after MS decides to cut off the 720 authentication servers after the release of the next console?

This is the biggest sticking point for me. I don't want to rent the games for a few years, If I bought the game I should be able to play it with my grandkids years from now (I should also be able to sell it if I no longer want it).
 

surly

Banned
Aug 13, 2009
3,094
0
0
Are you sure about this?

I thought EA/Ubisoft/THQ were first.
SOCOM Fireteam Bravo 3 on PSP was the first game released with an online pass. You got a code in the box that you had to enter in order to access the online portion of the game, and you could also purchase it for $20 on PSN. That came out on February 16th 2010. THQ were next with UFC Undisputed 2010 released on May 25th, then came EA with Tiger Woods PGA Tour 11 released on June 2nd. Ubisoft didn't start using them until the following year.
 

Feindflug

Member
Jul 26, 2005
6,029
0
0
Europa
This is the biggest sticking point for me. I don't want to rent the games for a few years, If I bought the game I should be able to play it with my grandkids years from now (I should also be able to sell it if I no longer want it).

There are so many negative aspects of this connection required crap, as you say having a game collection for Durango will be meaningless...just plastic cases with worthless discs in them.

I still can't understand how MS decided to go with this, there's not even one fuckin' positive thing about this.

At this point I have no interest in the announcement show or their E3 conference, Durango sounds like a DRM-centered disaster that I'm not interested in even if it has the most crazy exclusives or features...I'm not gonna support this with my money, plain and simple.
 

megashock5

Member
May 16, 2005
5,110
0
0
50
There are so many negative aspects of this connection required crap, as you say having a game collection for Durango will be meaningless...just plastic cases with worthless discs in them.

I still can't understand how MS decided to go with this, there's not even one fuckin' positive thing about this.

At this point I have no interest in the announcement show or their E3 conference, Durango sounds like a DRM-centered disaster that I'm not interested in even if it has the most crazy exclusives or features...I'm not gonna support this with my money, plain and simple.

That's where I am as well. I never had the original Xbox, but my son bought a 360 a couple years ago and I was pleasantly surprised how much I liked it. I fell in love with PGR4 and The Forza games and was genuinely looking forward to the next installments.

But if these rumors turn out to be true, I have no problem going back to Sony. It's possible they could still surprise us at E3, but right now all we have to go on is what's out there - and what's out there isn't good.
 

PaulLFC

Member
Jun 30, 2010
9,539
2
0
www.twitter.com
I just don't understand why he dismisses the always online requirement as not being a big deal, after he specifically pointed out that he'd heard online was required.

I know he's an "MS fanboy" but from a lot of posts here from others it seems he can be quite critical of them when it's called for.

I mean, so far, we have these rumours:

- Always online
- If you're offline for longer than 3 minutes you get kicked out of the game you're playing
- $500 off contract
- $300 + subscription on contract
- May block used games
- No backwards compatibility

... and that's "all positive"? I don't see it. Imagine being half way through a level in single player on your newly purchased $300 contract console when... "Internet connection not detected. Saving and exiting..." "Please reconnect to the internet before continuing to use Xbox... hope you like your currently unusable console you're still paying us a monthly fee for!"
 

Palette Swap

Member
May 13, 2009
12,826
0
0
That place there.
SOCOM Fireteam Bravo 3 on PSP was the first game released with an online pass. You got a code in the box that you had to enter in order to access the online portion of the game, and you could also purchase it for $20 on PSN. That came out on February 16th 2010. THQ were next with UFC Undisputed 2010 released on May 25th, then came EA with Tiger Woods PGA Tour 11 released on June 2nd. Ubisoft didn't start using them until the following year.
EA get credited because they first did project $10 on Dragon Age and ME2. This didn't lock you out of MP but rather removed SP content.
 

dancmc

Member
May 23, 2007
771
0
0
What makes me super nervous about all the rumors which have been accompanied by silence be MS. To me that means they are either mostly true, or they have decides to let misinformation fester for far too long. Don't forget, either reality is reality, or perception is reality; neither is good for MS
 

Corky

Nine out of ten orphans can't tell the difference.
Jul 1, 2009
18,775
0
0
Oh man how will I possibly turn down the console that brings me sure to be hits like Gears of War 5 Annihilation and Forza:I think we lost count.

*bitter*

My 360 was my goto console first the first half of the generation. Why can't we just get a nice successor to that? Instead of this mental torture I'm looking forward to.
 

Feindflug

Member
Jul 26, 2005
6,029
0
0
Europa
That's where I am as well. I never had the original Xbox, but my son bought a 360 a couple years ago and I was pleasantly surprised how much I liked it. I fell in love with PGR4 and The Forza games and was genuinely looking forward to the next installments.

But if these rumors turn out to be true, I have no problem going back to Sony. It's possible they could still surprise us at E3, but right now all we have to go on is what's out there - and what's out there isn't good.

360 is still my main system, I have 100+ games for it and I had a great time with the system but I'm easily going to get the PS4 and not have a single doubt if the online connection required crap is true, MS is overestimating the "investment" that people have with Xbox Live, their gamercards and their friends list because there's no way these things will make me think twice before switching to the PS4.

In fact from the people I've talked about that on my friends list (who are equally "invested") and also had the 360 as their primary platform this gen, most of them are as easily as me considering going to PS4 next gen...if MS is counting that much at the existing Live ecosystem they're in for an unpleasant surprise.
 

Myshkin

Member
Oct 4, 2012
901
0
0
I learned something from this article. When he talked about Orth. I learned the technical term for a person who feeds a troll is "bully".
 

Redhood

Member
Nov 28, 2012
2,287
3
510
The way these rumors keep cropping up makes me think its rather toooo convenient.

Generate Negative PR. -->Reveal console---> Put a positive spin on it----> bro dudes rejoice!
 

Yoshi

Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
May 4, 2005
16,496
6,088
1,875
33
Germany
www.gaming-universe.de
I'm worried about 15 years from now. Will I be able to play Xbox 720 games then like I can NES games?

Conker: Live & Reloaded was released in 2005, if the first Xbox had such a system in place, you couldn't play it anymore since last year. So that's seven years. My girlfriend is playing this game right now. She would be pissed. Also: I've played through DuckTales for the first time last year. That was about 23 years post release. In a situation like Conker's, this game would have had a longer period of time where it was not playable than it had a period of time where it was playable by last year and obviously I wouldn't have had a chance to play it. So the answer is: Probably not :/. If MS does this and if I were to end up with an Xbox 3 (someone giving it to me as a present or needing it for work are the only options for that), this would definitely be the first system I'd ever modify to be able to play pirated version. Not to play pirated games, but to play my legitimately bought games like I should be able to do out of the box.
 

jlh

Member
Jun 9, 2004
241
0
0
I just don't understand why he dismisses the always online requirement as not being a big deal, after he specifically pointed out that he'd heard online was required.

I know he's an "MS fanboy" but from a lot of posts here from others it seems he can be quite critical of them when it's called for.

I mean, so far, we have these rumours:

- Always online
- If you're offline for longer than 3 minutes you get kicked out of the game you're playing
- $500 off contract
- $300 + subscription on contract
- May block used games

... and that's "all positive"? I don't see it. Imagine being half way through a level in single player on your newly purchased $300 contract console when... "Internet connection not detected. Saving and exiting..." "Please reconnect to the internet before continuing to use Xbox... hope you like your currently unusable console you're still paying us a monthly fee for!"

Paul Thurrott is not in any way a "MS fanboy". It's amazing that anyone would think of him in that way because it's just not at all true. He has never been afraid to call MS out when they make stupid decisions or release bad products. He's a journo/blogger that I actually believe when I read his reviews and recommendations and it's because he is as far from a bootlicker as a tech journalist can get.

The fact that Thurrott knows far more about what is coming for the next Xbox than the so-called games journalists who are writing their rumors on places like Kotaku and still feels so strongly that the console is going to be awesome is more than enough for me not to pre-judge the thing before it's ever announced. There is already too much of that kind of jumping to conclusions behavior present on GAF from a lot of people and it is extremely worrying considering that on a so-called enthusiast site there are so many people who are damning a console before any specifics have been released and especially before any games have been revealed.
 

DJ Lushious

Member
Dec 3, 2007
4,515
0
0
Killimanjaro
Why is it some NeoGAF members make so many assumptions with these "Always Online" rumors and then treat them as fact?

Not necessarily to pick on Microsoft, either, as the same thing happened with the PS4 and it's "4GB of RAM."
 

partyphone

Banned
Dec 27, 2012
5,890
0
0
www.platformers.net
Why is it some NeoGAF members make so many assumptions with these "Always Online" rumors and then treat them as fact?

Not necessarily to pick on Microsoft, either, as the same thing happened with the PS4 and it's "4GB of RAM."

They're coming from multiple credible sources. Also that twitter blowup over it is highly suspicious.
 

megashock5

Member
May 16, 2005
5,110
0
0
50
Why is it some NeoGAF members make so many assumptions with these "Always Online" rumors and then treat them as fact?

Not necessarily to pick on Microsoft, either, as the same thing happened with the PS4 and it's "4GB of RAM."

To be fair, I think most here are approaching this from an "if this is true" POV. And until we get some actual info from Microsoft, there isn't much to go on yet other than these rumors.

I'm growing impatient for E3, but at the same time I don't know what I expect MS to say.

If the rumors are true, would they honestly offer "this box won't work if there's no internet connection" as part of their presentation? Or would they gloss over it and let unaware buyers come across that realization post-purchase?
 

saladine1

Junior Member
Oct 22, 2007
5,625
1
1,120
thelollyjaraustralia.com.au
Well, as you can tell by my avatar, i'm a big fan of Turn 10's/MS Forza series. The only reason I own the Xbox is because of Forza.

However, if this 'internet connection required to play' shit is absolutely real, then i'm done.

Not only does it sound ridiculous, but I literally will not be able to play the game because my gaming time is done where there is no fucking internet connection....absolutely no fucking internet connection whatsoever!

So what do I do about that huh?

Dan Greenawalt, Nick Wiswell and the rest of the Turn 10 team... it's been a good run. Thanks for the memories.....cries....

 

Yoshi

Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
May 4, 2005
16,496
6,088
1,875
33
Germany
www.gaming-universe.de
Admittedly I'm not a fan of the prospect of a new console requiring an active Internet connection just so you can used the damned thing. However, that's not my biggest turn off.

How come no one is discussing mandatory kinect? That really makes me feel uncomfortable. How can anyone be comfortable with knowing you'll always be watched by the kinect camera? Anecdotal evidence I know, but when I mentioned this rumour to my GF her response was "you're not getting one of those then".

I just feel really uncomfortable with the mandatory camera (can't say I like these new TVs with cameras either).

And before anyone says, yes my phone/iPad/laptop all have cameras, but they're not able to view my entire living room at any time.
I don't see the problem, just put some cardbox in front of Kinect if it annoys you that it's possible recording something you don't want it to. Or flip it over. Or turn it around. From my point of view this is not comparable to the prospect of always online.
 

Omegasquash

Member
Apr 13, 2007
15,022
0
1,165
It's best to just sit back and wait for the reveal. Assume that the twitter crap was trolling (and yea I'm giving a little wiggle on that), assume that always online is exactly the same as what we're doing now, and assume that apps requiring a connection are the ones in debate (netflix, music, bing, etc), and we're good.

Would I like a system that syncs all of my purchases? Yes. Would I like a system that updates automatically assuming a connection is active? Yes. Do I want the option to toggle always online on/off? Yes. Do I want a system that allows me to play my purchases on or offline? Yes. Do I want system that allows me to play games (disc or on-demand/arcade) from the immediately previous generation? Yes.

Do I want a system that requires an active connection to play a game? No. Do I mind that I won't be connected to Live and won't achieve achievements? No. Do I want to get kicked out of a single player game when my mother in law unplugs the router? No. Do I want my playing habits monitored and displayed for the world to see? No, but that might change so let's make it an option.

The tone of finality that's displayed sometimes is a little overboard considering that we do not know any of what's been said as fact. They range from speculation to hypothesis to trolling (in Orth's case).

All that said, I likely won't be purchasing a next-gen system on launch. Early entry fee, backlog and general issues always give me pause. Right now the rumor mill does have me concerned, but this is almost always what happens with each generation.
 

soul creator

Member
Mar 31, 2006
17,053
3
1,380
www.soulcreator.com
Isn't this casual assumption tossed in there the crux of this ENTIRE CONVERSATION?

Heh, the "always online" phrasing is like a religious debate at this point. Everyone's reading into it their own personal interpretation of the phrase, and talking past each other, so nothing really gets resolved.

Like you said, he made comparisons to Windows 8, where you can obviously still do stuff offline (I can use fucking MS Paint without a cloud connection). But he just casually says it, while not realizing that that's exactly what the uproar is about, because he thinks of always online as "even in low power mode, cool internetty things happen to my console!"

That's pretty much why I don't think the next console will be "the SimCity console" like some are claiming, where every single player game requires a constant internet connection, and kicks you out after 3 minutes if it's dropped. That said, I could potentially see something like one-time activations, and/or only having a set amount of consoles authorized for offline play. And maybe you can only have 3 consoles authorized for offline, but the 4th console requires you to maintain a connection to play. Something closer to Steam/iTunes/XBLA type DRM. Still really annoying, but not quite the worst case scenario.
 
I read the last days all the rumors and how ms keeps shut up about them, and I still refuse to believe that one such big company can be so stupid.
I guess in a month or two we will all know if it is possible.

But if the bad rumors are true, a) about new h/w not really being top of the line and b) the online drm with camera shit
then it will take much from microsoft for me not to jump in day one etc, but just to let it be my forza-box sometime in the future
and for forza, since saladine mentioned it, it better be some true forza and not some spinoff like the horizon thing, which in the bottom line failed to wow me.


and if I think like this, haha, I'd really not want to be in the shoes of those microsoft analysts that say that user base is "locked" because of live services and gamerscores etc to the xbox/live system. bwahaha
 

Busty

Banned
Aug 26, 2006
16,935
1
0
Oh man how will I possibly turn down the console that brings me sure to be hits like Gears of War 5 Annihilation and Forza:I think we lost count..

..., I have a feeling that this particular title will be multi platform come the next gen.
 

Kagari

Crystal Bearer
Nov 28, 2007
60,684
2
1,410
Noblesville, IN
www.novacrystallis.com
I read the last days all the rumors and how ms keeps shut up about them, and I still refuse to believe that one such big company can be so stupid. I guess in a month or two we will all know if it is possible.

But if the bad rumors are true, a) about new h/w not really being top of the line and b) the online drm with camera shit
then it will take much from microsoft for me not to jump in day one etc, but just to let it be my forza-box sometime in the future
and for forza, since saladine mentioned it, it better be some true forza and not some spinoff like the horizon thing, which in the bottom line failed to wow me.


and if I think like this, haha, I'd really not want to be in the shoes of those microsoft analysts that say that user base is "locked" because of live services and gamerscores etc to the xbox/live system. bwahaha

Did you miss Sony during 2006?
 

Lothars

Member
Dec 5, 2008
10,594
0
0
Regina SK Canada
If the rumors are true, would they honestly offer "this box won't work if there's no internet connection" as part of their presentation? Or would they gloss over it and let unaware buyers come across that realization post-purchase?
Yup knowing MS that's exactly what they would do, I don't have any faith in them and I expect them to screw it up.

Their arrogance was astronomical.
As I imagine Microsoft's is now.
 

Aquamarine

Member
May 24, 2012
18,812
119
780
Yup knowing MS that's exactly what they would do, I don't have any faith in them and I expect them to screw it up.

As I imagine Microsoft's is now.

All of those Microsoft-centric NPD figures---"Xbox is the top selling console for the 26th month in the USA"----has gotten to their heads. :p
 

milsorgen

Banned
Feb 27, 2011
298
0
0
Pacific Northwest
last.fm
There are so many negative aspects of this connection required crap, as you say having a game collection for Durango will be meaningless...just plastic cases with worthless discs in them.

I still can't understand how MS decided to go with this, there's not even one fuckin' positive thing about this.

At this point I have no interest in the announcement show or their E3 conference, Durango sounds like a DRM-centered disaster that I'm not interested in even if it has the most crazy exclusives or features...I'm not gonna support this with my money, plain and simple.

I'm with you, barring some massive fuck up I'm going PS4. Otherwise a $500 video card... or $500 in Arduino's to make my own NES esq device... with achievements!

...

Wait whats the thread about again.
 
I'm with you, barring some massive fuck up I'm going PS4. Otherwise a $500 video card... or $500 in Arduino's to make my own NES esq device... with achievements!

i would suggest go pc, a decent system offers what should consoles have switched to 2 years ago. even current and older games look a lot better in 1080p , 60fps and a shit load of post processing. a top of the line system is special, and if rumors are true, already is more powerful than any of the coming consoles.
ps4 and xbox, let them fight for your money.
 

Limanima

Member
Jan 12, 2011
1,132
0
555
The same casuals that bought the Kinect in record breaking numbers and made it the fastest selling consumer electronics device ever at the time?

Yes, exactly the same. The same applies to those casuals. They are not going to bite again.
 

Tripp Daily

Member
Dec 5, 2012
645
0
0
we live in a world where people can now be accused of bullying a grown man

No, we live in a world where people that have a feeling of entitlement feel the need to spew their uninformed opinion about others (usually the people who have worked to get where they are) in a very vulgar and explicit way just to fish for a couple of laughs on a forum, to a group of friends, or just an agreeable party.
 

Tripp Daily

Member
Dec 5, 2012
645
0
0
If the rumors are true, would they honestly offer "this box won't work if there's no internet connection" as part of their presentation? Or would they gloss over it and let unaware buyers come across that realization post-purchase?

I don't think they will come out and say it like this, but I think at this point it will be addressed either during the presentation or through journos afterwards. It would be cool of them to address it early in the presentation. The only thing I want from any of these presentations is for the company to be transparent. That way I have a clear understanding of what they have planned for the future and where they are headed.

Edit:
Oops, didn't mean to post back-to-back.
 
Feb 17, 2005
7,838
152
1,570
I just hope the controller for the thing at least has a start button. Hopefully I won't be using sign language with the kinnect just to begin a game.