The Abominable Snowman
Member
I think we've got quite some wiggle room left in the CG arts. I'm amazed people are discounting next generation/PC so easily.
Diminishing returns? Sure. Still easily discernible from this gen? Definite Yes.
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WiiU "Latte" GPU Die Photo - GPU Feature Set And Power Analysis
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I think we've got quite some wiggle room left in the CG arts. I'm amazed people are discounting next generation/PC so easily.
Diminishing returns? Sure. Still easily discernible from this gen? Definite Yes.
The_Intruder
Member
I think with the first party games, the lightnings and shadows will be very close to the Xbox720/ps4 games, but the polycounts will be close to the ps3/360.
fabricated backlash
Member
I don't think anyone is arguing that there is no improvement, but compared to the almost brutal leap in visual fidelity made by the PS1-PS2 and then PS2-3 generations, this is merely a facelift, a more defined and comfortable jump.
The real big bonus is going to be scale. Draw distances, objects on screen at any given moment, that jazz.
prag16
Banned
This.
The last two (even three) jumps were incredibly large. The most recent jump is probably the smallest if not for the SD to HD jump. For this gen, we're looking at a much nicer coat of paint, but not a fundamentally shocking improvement.
As was said, likely the best thing will be the ability to have "bigger" games with less/no compromises to visual fidelity.
For people who have had almost no jumps in IQ over 2 generations I think they welcome some of the facelift quite easily.
lwilliams3
Member
I believe different genres has various points of diminishing returns:
Cartoon/Anime style graphics: Current-gen systems seems to already be extremely good at this. Even 3DS games such as Ace Attorney 5 and Pokemon X/Y looks very good.
Realistic graphics: We obviously have much more to go. Considering that even full CGI have not yet reached a point of making super realistic humans without hitting uncanny valley, games may be stuck in that category for another generation or so.
I think the one thing we will definitely improved on is on grander gaming worlds. Artistic talent, game budget, and development time can drastically affect the quality of that more than the graphics, though.
IQ, surprisingly enough, is the first thing I notice looking at a game, yet pretty much the last I care about actually playing a game. Because I've better things to do than counting jaggies - if the game is good, that is. But if it isn't, I have no reason to play it in the first place...
Miracles? I don't know. We can expect far superior performance to what the 360/PS3 can do, though. Such already has been demonstrated and vocalized by 3 different devs.
People still arguing about this? But then again, people still argue about machines from 1993. carry on.
Meccanical
Member
Superior ? Yes. Far superior ? I belive it when I see it. Far superior is a highly relative term anyway.
Not that its even remotely a dealbraker to me. Good games are good games regardless of how the graphics compare to PS4.
games already can deliver enough information to keep an individuals mind fully occupied. huge gorgeous backgrounds can already be faked. worlds can't actually get any larger because that is limited by software development practices. the sky is falling. we're purchasing new hardware so major publishing houses can block used games and reduce their optimization costs so they can finally profit off all those IPs they've spent all this time hoarding.
this has nothing to do with wii u gpu. how'd i get here
The Abominable Snowman
Member
IMO, decent surrealism is quite a bit harder to hit and a good ways out from Hyper-realism. 'Cartoony' graphics like cel shading there is probably a much lower ceiling. I don't recall many examples of it this gen either way.
The part I take issue with in his post is when he said gamers would hardly notice the differences in game. We might be desensitized because we see PC mods that alter the graphics of games already, but it's still a leap great enough to the average gamer.
As far as drawing the gaming crowd next gen, gamers go where the games go. We're going back to the "Gamers don't buy games for graphics" thing
Cow Mengde
Banned
Considering Sony's habit of showing CG and fake specs, I'd expect the finish software to be worse. Deep Down has better lighting and particle effects, but the rest of it is hardly that much of a leap from 360/PS3. It's probably actually in HD so there's also that.
Are physics, animation, AI, etc. going to be enhanced next gen? Please say yes.
This is true, the FFXIII and MGS4 Tech Demo comes to mind.
People expressed how much the graphics looked like CG, only to later find out that they were GC and the final games didn't come close. I'd say the graphics in deep down are cut scene graphics(not likely to run in a full scale game). Talk of the PS4 is getting far off topic.
Has anyone determined the effects used on the floor in trailer?
I would think it woulld have ended at launch after the comments by the Trine 2 dev that the game could no long run on the PS3 and 360 without downgrades, but from the moment I posted footage of that new game, people I normally never see popped up to express both how much the PS3/360 could easily do better than it and how the Wii U couldn't even run it.
Still looking for info on this though
Is this parallax mapping or tessellation? The light you can see on the one right next to his foot is throwing me off.
fabricated backlash
Member
Physics and animation? Yeah, definetly, but not so much because of better tech, but because it's been a focus of game design for years now, and better tech just makes it easier to go wild with it. I would expect proper material deformation physics for race sims as one of the biggest leaps for next gen. Everything else, probably just more debris and other useless shit that does nothing to impact gameplay.
Maybe fluid simulations could bring some innovations to gameplay.
AI? no. And not because next gen won't be able to handle better AI, but because it's not a big focus of game design. Most developers are happy enough if their AI doesn't run in circles or into walls. Besides that, most AI implementation is used for combat scenarios, so it's rather simplistic based on dynamic waypoints and field of sight.
and don't forget sedating and stupefying effects of spectacle and bread&circuses not to mention the new tech that will allow monitoring inside homes by the CIA/NSA/FBI/DEA/ATF/TFI/CSIS/MI6/FSB/MSS/ETC. PSKINECTEYE is watching.
Are you so sure? What exactly is in that mysterious piece of silicon? Is it only transmitting messages to the gamepad? Excuse me while I move to a cabin near Ruby Ridge.
fabricated backlash
Member
The difference will be noticeable, but it won't be anywhere near as dramatic as it used to be with past generational transitions. Mainly because all graphics techniques remain essentially the same. The last real graphics jump will be actual real time raytracing. Which won't happen next gen, maybe aproximated in the gen after, but it's going to take a while.
Otherwise I'll agree, Gamers will go where the games are. And if Nintendo can provide enough compelling content, they'll have little to worry about.
But for that they'll first have to provide any content at all.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
... at least we are starting open minded here
.They have been kicking in for a while, you need a bigger and bigger increase in specs and performance each time to notice a smaller and smaller visual improvement given the same performance delta so to speak (although IQ improvements are long overdue and WILL make a noticeable difference IMHO). One thing that will help the next generation is that the console makers had a lot more time to let technology evolve before launching a successor compared to before and Orbis/Durango vs Wii U specifically we are talking about quite vastly different thermal budgets (~40 Watts vs what... 150+ Watts or so perhaps?).
Still, the beauty of this is that we WILL have answers... 6 months or so after Orbis and Durango launch we will see how well they used their launch windows and how the games they have available will deliver compared with the average throughput PS3 and Xbox 360 delivered throughout their lifespan. You can make some adjustments, you can give it the "it's a launch title... let's compare it to how the previous generation's launch titles differed from titles further down the generation..." benefit of doubt, but I think people should still expect not to be disappointed comparing the brand new console to the previous generation of consoles.
I do agree that it will be harder and harder to achieve due to "simple" physics issues, but I am not sure we are even close to that point.
Still, as I said... you will be able to compare how launch window titles for Orbis and Durango will compare to PS3 and Xbox 360 games throughout their life spans and you will then examine how they fared when the result of that comparison is shown side by side with the comparison between Wii U's launch window titles and PS3 and Xbox 360 titles.
Smurfman256
Member
BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU!!!
Smurfman256
Member
It looks closer to parallax mapping, IMO.
fabricated backlash
Member
It would be a gigantic waste of resources to use tesselation on this floor. That's better used for silhouettes.
I was thinking the same thing. The lighting was making me question is though.
I wonder when we'll see the Wii U's tesselator put to use.
OG_Original Gamer
Member
Well is a true jump something close to the stuff we see in movies, is it hardware that can do 8x msaa anti-aliasing, with complex geometric detail and advance shaders.
You have a link?
Looks like its running on WiiU two. Wii U bottom prompts.
lwilliams3
Member
What is an example of surrealism that comes to your mind? In surrealism, in my perspective, you can get away with certain things not being.. realistic. Uncharted, for example, is not super-realistic with their detailed character models, and it works well on avoiding creepy faces (though I think the girl from The Last of Us doesn't look quite right). I agree that we still need improvement in that area. We also do need more games with "cartoon" graphics outside of DBZ and Naruto games, and hopefully Nintendo can bring that catagory up.
And how many people in this thread refused to accept that the this was running on the Wii U earlier? Let me go count the names.
I think it is, it shows wii u buttons in the 9 minute demo when you interact with people...it doesn't make a lot of sense to use wii u buttons on the pc version (since you'd be using a keyboard + mouse or a pc controller)
Wishmaster92
Member
Lets wait for the full ign interview due out tomorrow. I think it was running on wii u i just hope they fix the character models.
what's wrong with the character models? (i didn't watch all that closely past the 1st minute or two but i didn't see any problems)
No, as there's always the possibility that the interface simply hasn't been made for PC yet. Some finished low-budget titles are like that, even.
However, it's certainly suggestive, and all things considered the game probably is running on WiiU. We may know after the IGN interview is posted tomorrow.
ArchangelWest
Member
Is the need for absolute word from the mouth of the developer confirmation that it's running on Wii U so important because people can't believe it or what?
It looks like we have two brands of naysayers here.
Those who want to downplay how good the game looks regardless, since it will be on Wii U
and
Those who won't believe it's running on Wii U without an exceptional form of confirmation.
Seriously guys, what's the deal?
The Wii U is a VERY capable machine. If competent developers who understand the machine well, put good effort into it, then we will have great looking games that have modern features. Will they always be at the same Frame rate as PS4 Nextbox, or always in 1080p? No. But that begs an entirely different question. If such a thing is that important to you, then why not just buy a decent gaming PC?
Anyway, I loved the lighting effect of the torches and the torch holder shadows on the wall.
It looks like we have two brands of naysayers here.
Those who want to downplay how good the game looks regardless, since it will be on Wii U
and
Those who won't believe it's running on Wii U without an exceptional form of confirmation.
Seriously guys, what's the deal?
The Wii U is a VERY capable machine. If competent developers who understand the machine well, put good effort into it, then we will have great looking games that have modern features. Will they always be at the same Frame rate as PS4 Nextbox, or always in 1080p? No. But that begs an entirely different question. If such a thing is that important to you, then why not just buy a decent gaming PC?
Anyway, I loved the lighting effect of the torches and the torch holder shadows on the wall.
If that is parallax mapping, then it is the most impressive and advanced I've ever seen on a gaming console in a game with this much running.. Almost looks like the bricks in the Unigene Heaven demo http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/679877_10151975223086494_1976046029_o.jpg, almost.
http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/4527/20130506132306greenshot.png http://imageshack.us/a/img708/6871/20130506130600greenshot.png http://imageshack.us/a/img809/4431/20130506130750greenshot.png
Those distortion and particle effects are quite nice. Reminds me of the time where people "INSISTENT" that the Wii U could not run Cryengine 3 and that it was reason Crysis wasn't released on the console.
http://imageshack.us/a/img7/7392/20130506131016greenshot.png http://imageshack.us/a/img838/1254/20130506130905greenshot.png
http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/4527/20130506132306greenshot.png http://imageshack.us/a/img708/6871/20130506130600greenshot.png http://imageshack.us/a/img809/4431/20130506130750greenshot.png
Those distortion and particle effects are quite nice. Reminds me of the time where people "INSISTENT" that the Wii U could not run Cryengine 3 and that it was reason Crysis wasn't released on the console.
http://imageshack.us/a/img7/7392/20130506131016greenshot.png http://imageshack.us/a/img838/1254/20130506130905greenshot.png
CryEngine 3 was running on the Wii U prior to launch, and Crysis 3 was prototyped but never launched on the console.
No idea if Dyack has Wii U kits or what the game is running on (though in the prototyping stage with cry engine, that's likely PC) but the engine support is already there. And it runs great.
No idea if Dyack has Wii U kits or what the game is running on (though in the prototyping stage with cry engine, that's likely PC) but the engine support is already there. And it runs great.
stanley1993
Neo Member
I think people are also forgetting that this has a fairly low budget, but yea about to watch the video.
Yeah I was impressed when I saw that, looks next gen too me.
And considering that this game doesn't have a big budget it makes me excited for games that do have big budgets on Wii U, example 3D Mario, etc.
Forsaken82
Member
I would argue it is less noticeable in stills than it is in real time. For instance, the Zelda tech demo is far more impressive in motion than it is in HD Screen grabs.
I personally do think graphics are important and I don't really think we've hit diminishing returns for a reasonably sized section of the audience. Deep Down was mikes ahead of anything I've seen in a console before.
That said I'd probably be happy if graphics were just titled up. No flickering or blocky shadows, no jaggies ( Lego City Undercover is terrible for this) and make smooth surfaces look smooth not straight edges. Not sure if Wii U can help with most of those.
That said I'd probably be happy if graphics were just titled up. No flickering or blocky shadows, no jaggies ( Lego City Undercover is terrible for this) and make smooth surfaces look smooth not straight edges. Not sure if Wii U can help with most of those.
Ever heard of tessellation? Or even just simple texture effects and optimization?
My biggest problem with most PS3/360 games were how horribly blocky the shadows were and how aliased everything was. That's why I always got the PC version.
But then when you look at top of the line PS3/360 http://kotaku.com/remember-me-isnt-a-sequel-or-an-old-idea-lets-see-if-493144020 games, they don't have blocky shadows or aliasing issues like most other games on the console and they are doing a lot more technically.
Why are people in such a hurry to list the worst demonstrations on Nintendo hardware as the hardware maximum capability? Even the dev said not to judge do to how it was graphically unfinished/unplolished/work-in-progress in the video, yet here we have someone immediately jumping to put focus on unfinished alpha build and state "Not sure if Wii U can help with most of those".
Angel Whispers
Member
Yes please.
OG_Original Gamer
Member
What stands out to me, is that Nintendo doesn't have that team or dev who has a history of pushing hardware in the way Rare, Factor 5 did for launch or in the launch window.
Nintendo needed a team during WiiU R&D researching and developing a game on a existing engine or proprietary one with a launch deadline.
Nintendo needed a team during WiiU R&D researching and developing a game on a existing engine or proprietary one with a launch deadline.
So the story goes that Silicon Knights was tapped by Nintendo to do a sequel to Eternal Darkness. But SK's financial issues caused Nintendo to back off. Was this the game that was rumored to be using CryE3? Was this game meant to be a launch title? Was it meant to be shown off during E3?
If they were that concerned with demonstrating technical feats then they would have used much stronger hardware. That is not Nintendo goal.
They're objective is to make system and games that are adequate and accessible, not to boast numbers.
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