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Lightning Returns starts to appear in Los Angeles

It didn't rewrite the ending no, but it pulled a sneak attack by changing the assumed end. If you reaally want to get technical about it then it isn't one, but the shock factor makes it feel every bit like a retcon, especially considering XIII-2's completely different focus from XIII.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Retcon
According to TV Tropes, XIII-2 would classify as a revision retcon.

As for the plothole,
in XIII it seemed like the party was saved from their curse as l'cie by THE POWER OF FRIENDSHIP AND WILLPOWER, with no explanation given otherwise; fast forward to XIII-2 and it's revealed that it was the goddess Etro who saved the party, by sending her power through Etro's Gate. At this point in time Etro was already in the 'netherworld' so to speak, and was slowly dying from being engulfed in chaos. In opening the gate some chaos flowed through and pulled Lightning into Valhalla, as well as distorting reality and causing a rift down the timeline, creating infinite alternate time worlds and voids that would all ultimately dissolve into entropy as Etro faded away and chaos began to flow through the gate. So basically, the party surviving and defeating Orphan in XIII doomed all of reality. Caius, having lived for hundreds of years and being able to see everything thanks to Yeul, saw this and decided to take an alternate option by just destroying time outright. This also means every main character in the XIII saga was a pawn from start to finish.
It's a pretty depressing story.

Honestly, what they did with that spoiler for the story is 100 times more interesting than what was originally left with no explanation in the original (power of friendship crap) Yeah it's a depressing story but that's what makes it enjoyable tbh lol

But then again, when I was a kid playing with my toys and figures I used to have a thing for
relentlessly killing them all
so maybe I'm just sick in the head :lol
 

Jeels

Member
No this isn't their "front game" nor is it their big JP game. It isn't even their big FF game, or big FF PS3 game. :p

In a year with a PC Port/Revamp and a PS2 Port/Remake, Lightning Returns is background noise at best.
 

HeelPower

Member
Oh hey its the final fantasy thread cycle. Again! @_@

Your Avatar couldn't be more perfect for FF threads. haha

Haruka%3B%20Fish%20Face.jpg
 

Wazzy

Banned
All I wanted was more Fang, Vanille and Sazh. Instead I got Sarah, Noel(Who's actually okay) and more Lightning. Now I'm getting only Lightning. :(
 
I loved it because I thought everyone died.

My thoughts exactly. I actually broke out laughing when you know what happened. Just straight up put the controller down and cracked the hell up. It was the most cathartic end to a game I've ever seen.

XIII-2 was better than the original, but not nearly enough to ever make me want to put up with Lightning again. That character has about as much charisma or personality as Sam Worthington.
 
I loved it because I thought everyone died.

End spoilers ->
Goddess Etro dead, Mog drops dead, Serah drops dead, Bhunivelze (new Cocoon) is merged into Valhalla, Lightning turns to crystal
I was one death away from squealing with joy lol I hope they don't retcon it with LR. What I really like about the ending is that is foreshadows it throughout most of the game but you still don't really expect it, because that's now how games end.
 
It'd be easier to tell you how much longer if we knew where you are in the story. :p 22 hours means nothing really because people play at different speeds.

True and I'd hate to spoil anything for anyone, so I'll figure it out on my own. It's definitely starting to become more enjoyable the further in to it I get.
 
The ending to XIII-2 makes it totally worth playing, I had a massive grin on my face throughout.

Probably one of my favorite endings this gen.
The final zoom towards lightning sitting on that throne was really shocking to me. Felt like I had just been punched in the gut after everything had gone down.
Kinda reminded me of one of the final shots of the original Ghost in the Shell movie. Also, the final boss sections were particularly epic. Much better than FF XIII's.

Anyway, very much excited for LR. Glad there are some people who like these games on GAF other than the constant droning of hate and disdain.
 
They should have made the main character Noel

I liked Noel and his story. He's the best thing to come of the the crap that is the "XIII saga". When they announced they went back to Lightning I was mystified as to why. Now we're back to the same point we were before.

Eh that humor is poor.

For real mood lighteners you go to the Alternate World of Texts from FF13, where vodka makes everything better:

tumblr_mljgsbhTLd1r8uo3io1_500.png

Drunk Lightning is the best Lightning. As a matter of fact if Drunk Lightning was the real Lightning in the "XIII Saga" (Ugh I still hate calling it that. So many more deserving FF should've gotten a "saga" before XIII.) I would've enjoyed the games immensely more.
 

dramatis

Member
Drunk Lightning is the best Lightning. As a matter of fact if Drunk Lightning was the real Lightning in the "XIII Saga" (Ugh I still hate calling it that. So many more deserving FF should've gotten a "saga" before XIII.) I would've enjoyed the games immensely more.
I agree.

tumblr_mkz1rlUrmX1r8uo3io1_500.png


I feel that the 13 saga stories take themselves too seriously, and when the writer does include bits for laughs he forks out cheap, stupid humor (Chocolina) rather than including some decent comedy that could serve to humanize and make us buddy up with the characters. It's sad when a screenshot with a different caption could do that so much better than the script itself.
 

MogCakes

Member
If you want to see a massive insult to the FF series, please look at

All The Bravest
XIV: A Blunder Reborn

WHOA she looks cool there. Bit of a shame that she's Seifer and co.'s age, but ah well. Cloud/Leon(Squall)/Aerith/Tifa makes for a hell of a drama as is....I think Cid's the only non-melodramatic FF adult cameo in Kingdom Hearts.
 

ULTROS!

People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
XIV: ARR is pretty god from what I've heard. Although XIV Vanilla...
 

Toth

Member
It didn't rewrite the ending no, but it pulled a sneak attack by changing the assumed end. If you reaally want to get technical about it then it isn't one, but the shock factor makes it feel every bit like a retcon, especially considering XIII-2's completely different focus from XIII.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Retcon
According to TV Tropes, XIII-2 would classify as a revision retcon.

As for the plothole,
in XIII it seemed like the party was saved from their curse as l'cie by THE POWER OF FRIENDSHIP AND WILLPOWER, with no explanation given otherwise; fast forward to XIII-2 and it's revealed that it was the goddess Etro who saved the party, by sending her power through Etro's Gate. At this point in time Etro was already in the 'netherworld' so to speak, and was slowly dying from being engulfed in chaos. In opening the gate some chaos flowed through and pulled Lightning into Valhalla, as well as distorting reality and causing a rift down the timeline, creating infinite alternate time worlds and voids that would all ultimately dissolve into entropy as Etro faded away and chaos began to flow through the gate. So basically, the party surviving and defeating Orphan in XIII doomed all of reality. Caius, having lived for hundreds of years and being able to see everything thanks to Yeul, saw this and decided to take an alternate option by just destroying time outright. This also means every main character in the XIII saga was a pawn from start to finish.
It's a pretty depressing story.

Actually it is a little more complicated.
If the party remained Cieth (or where they...?), Fang would have destroyed Orphan, Cocoon would have crashed to Pulse, and several million people would have died. Etro's gate would have been thrown open and chaos would have came sweeping in, signaling the end of the world. Thanks to Etro's intervention, the world was able to survive for another 500 YEARS. Yes this created a centuries long paradox but Etro was right that Lightning, now out of time, would choose to help Etro of her own volition and guide Serah to correct the damage. That decision was was the whole point of 13-2.

Now people tend to forget that Etro is a Fal Cie, which are essentially sentient machines. She lacks the ability to understand emotion and feelings. This fatal flaw prevented her from seeing the emotional damage her eternal guardian, Caius, would experience in watching Yuels die over and over again. It was only because Caius did what he did that her plan was undone. He choose to defy his fate (there's that FF13 theme again) and remake reality. By killing himself, Etro was killed as well and 13-2 ended as it did, the world ending as it should have 500 years in the past. How this will be undone should be an interesting tale in LR
 

enigmatic_alex44

Whenever a game uses "middleware," I expect mediocrity. Just see how poor TLOU looks.
I'm EXTREMELY excited for LR:FXIII
I love both the current XIII games and Lightning is one of my favorite characters in gaming. She's tough, cold, kind, and gorgeous
 

HeelPower

Member
Actually it is a little more complicated.
If the party remained Cieth (or where they...?), Fang would have destroyed Orphan, Cocoon would have crashed to Pulse, and several million people would have died. Etro's gate would have been thrown open and chaos would have came sweeping in, signaling the end of the world. Thanks to Etro's intervention, the world was able to survive for another 500 YEARS. Yes this created a centuries long paradox but Etro was right that Lightning, now out of time, would choose to help Etro of her own volition and guide Serah to correct the damage. That decision was was the whole point of 13-2.

Now people tend to forget that Etro is a Fal Cie, which are essentially sentient machines. She lacks the ability to understand emotion and feelings. This fatal flaw prevented her from seeing the emotional damage her eternal guardian, Caius, would experience in watching Yuels die over and over again. It was only because Caius did what he did that her plan was undone. He choose to defy his fate (there's that FF13 theme again) and remake reality. By killing himself, Etro was killed as well and 13-2 ended as it did, the world ending as it should have 500 years in the past. How this will be undone should be an interesting tale in LR

Are you sure about Etro not understanding emotion? Didn't Etro essentially sympathise with mankind who are essentially her creation ? Also I think its really ironic that Caius' goal helped fulfil Barthendelus's plan.After all if he had succeeded in FF13 ,13-2's ending would apply as well.
 
Actually it is a little more complicated.
If the party remained Cieth (or where they...?), Fang would have destroyed Orphan, Cocoon would have crashed to Pulse, and several million people would have died. Etro's gate would have been thrown open and chaos would have came sweeping in, signaling the end of the world. Thanks to Etro's intervention, the world was able to survive for another 500 YEARS. Yes this created a centuries long paradox but Etro was right that Lightning, now out of time, would choose to help Etro of her own volition and guide Serah to correct the damage. That decision was was the whole point of 13-2.

Now people tend to forget that Etro is a Fal Cie, which are essentially sentient machines. She lacks the ability to understand emotion and feelings. This fatal flaw prevented her from seeing the emotional damage her eternal guardian, Caius, would experience in watching Yuels die over and over again. It was only because Caius did what he did that her plan was undone. He choose to defy his fate (there's that FF13 theme again) and remake reality. By killing himself, Etro was killed as well and 13-2 ended as it did, the world ending as it should have 500 years in the past. How this will be undone should be an interesting tale in LR

Pretty sure the game specifies that
Etro was moved by the fight of XIII characters against her destiny so she saved them even knowing the damage to the space time, also in her XIII entries she's described as kind and with compassion
 

Toth

Member
Are you sure about Etro not understanding emotion? Didn't Etro essentially sympathise with mankind who are essentially her creation ? Also I think its really ironic that Caius' goal helped fulfil Barthendelus's plan.After all if he had succeeded in FF13 ,13-2's ending would apply as well.

It's discussed more in the Fragments After book:
1. Etro spilled her blood out of desperation to get her father Bhunivelze's attention.
2. When Lightning is made one with Etro, it is also revealed that Etro saw Lightning and her friends as sinners for killing other people as l'Cie, regardless that they only killed in self-defense, as Etro cherishes every life.
3. Lindzei created mankind from Etro's blood, and the first human created was Yeul. Moreover, it is suggested that Lindzei made Yeul in Etro's image.
4. Upon entering Valhalla, Yeul's soul would never fade away unlike other souls, and taking pity on her, Etro would send Yeul back to the Mortal Realm so she wouldn't be lonely. It's also suggested that Yeul obtained the Eyes of Etro as a side-effect of being reborn.
5. It is suggested that fal'Cie might have an illusion of feeling emotions but don't understand them, such as Etro sending Yeul back to be reborn out of love but not seeing the suffering that she would cause Yeul to endure.

Etro is good intentioned but failed to see what good intentions could spur....
 
Final Fantasy XIII just has to die, please let it die.

It should be buried in a large pit full of behemoth crap and then nuked by bahamut!!

It am pretty sure it will stop after LR. Hell, I like the XIII series a lot but think it has far overstayed it's welcome. Bring on the new Final Fantasy world!
 
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