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Lightning Returns starts to appear in Los Angeles
- Thread starter Perfo
- Start date
Ah right, I'd forgotten that history. They don't show the city at any point other than 400-500AF, so it's easy to forget.
PshycoNinja
Member
Yeah I think that's what it is too. I am going through the site and laughing at each one.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
And actual construction is never shown.
Meccanical
Member
Why?
Yeah but was it REALLY necessary to the story? I would have liked seeing a city develop over 500 years but I think we got a good feel of what was happening from Bersha Ruins and Yasscha Matiff.
Though again, it would have been a cool plot device to see.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
The first human ever Yeul is created in the likeness of Etro
Would have been nice to see it slowly being built over the years no?
-----------------
One thing that bothered me bout the time travel bullcrap was the fact they pulled it off in such a way that Hope couldn't travel back in time and save the crutch of his entire character. His mom.
Meccanical
Member
Why does Lindzei give a shit about Etro?
Major spoilers
I think that Lumina or those Yeuls from the RotG DLC are actually Lindzei, who is depicted as female and as a trickster/ serpent. For such a 'guardian' of humanity, he/she/it sure was deceitful. However, my theory is that Lindzei never wanted humanity to perish like Barthandelus thought. Lindzei is supposed to protect Bhunivelve and we know from the story how powerful humanity can become with the right 'push'. I think Lindzei wanted humanity to stay cooped up in Cocoon, living idyllic lives and never realizing their potential. That way, when the gate was found, good ole Bhunny could wake up and have nothing to fear from humans. Ironically, his creations, the Cocoon Fal Cie grew tired with their orders, crafted a plan they thought their creator would like, and set into motion what should be the downfall of all Fal Cie.
The paradox and the gates only started appearing in 3 AF. They did not 'exist' before that so there was no way to go further back. Poor Hope ; ;
PshycoNinja
Member
That 'explanation' is insufficient. If they already knew about the collapse of crystal Cocoon so early on, then the obvious thing to do is to build a chain of 'camps' leading away from Cocoon's base to a safe point, where they can build a city. The camps will serve as supply transport points.
With all the claims of 'Pulse is huge', it is absurd to think that their technology over the course of 400 years could not carry them far enough to be safe. You cannot be so stupid to suffer the event of Cocoon's fall and the subsequent problems and then decide the best solution is to build another floating ball to live in.
The mythology actually states that
Cocoon and all the Fal'cie that comprise it are creations of Lindzei, a trap to lure humans into it to be sacrificed so that Etro's Gate would open wide for Bhunivelze to traverse. Whether she/it accounted for the chaos that would flow through is unknown, but I assume the Fal'cie expected this. If Lindzei created humanity then it was for the purpose of sacrifice.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Toth will likely use the "Gran Pulse was full of powerful monsters" excuse. And so the very lazy people of Cocoon waited to die.
Then again...GILGAMESH had no problem. But this is GILGAMESH we are talking about. No such monster exists to challenge his MIGHTINESS.
Then again...GILGAMESH had no problem. But this is GILGAMESH we are talking about. No such monster exists to challenge his MIGHTINESS.
Via Purifico
Banned
I am not really that hyped for it but i am interested to see how it turns out.
I did not buy XIII-2, i borrowed it from a friend and that was all i needed tbh.
I did not buy XIII-2, i borrowed it from a friend and that was all i needed tbh.
Well it was and that was a problem the story did mention. However, I do not believe the NPCs or datalog really touched upon that. And when you look at the city's position, it is not exactly 'underneath' Cocoon. It looks like it is quite a safe distance away. It does not sustain any damage when Cocoon finally falls in its 'controlled' fall.
Also, I believe there was ongoing friction between those living on Cocoon and those who wanted to leave. Maybe the city was closeby built as a happy medium?
Oh that is certainly possible. I just had a theory, that's all. Why did Lindzei disappear/depart from his creation if that's what he really wanted though?
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Unfortunately for you. In the game Cocoon's fall somehow has a shockwave effect that unleashes some form of crystal dust that has some sort of destructive or radiation like effect if I recall correctly.
There was supposed to be some sort of shield implemented but Hope opted for making another Cocoon and apparently finding a book and calling it Bunnybelts was supposed to get the job done.
Not sure what exactly happens to the "New Cocoon" after the Chaos sets in.
Time travel is very poorly handled in XIII-2.I don't think there is a way you could possibly defend that, ever.The effect of time is never well represented in the game. Places are hundreds of years apart and look the same.
Look at Chrono Cross' home world and Another world.Miles, leagues, worlds ahead of XIII-2.I don't appreciate time travel unless its absolutely well done.I don't care for it.
I did defend lightning's character but time travel was bottom tier in XIII-2.XIII is better than XIII-2.
Look at Chrono Cross' home world and Another world.Miles, leagues, worlds ahead of XIII-2.I don't appreciate time travel unless its absolutely well done.I don't care for it.
I did defend lightning's character but time travel was bottom tier in XIII-2.XIII is better than XIII-2.
Okay but given how raw the events of the Purge and the sudden change in lifestyle, I am inclined to say that the people were not thinking of the day Cocoon would fall when they started to rebuild their lives. Also, wasn't it Noel who said that? He did have future knowledge of what happened that the people of Academia would not have.
Also, it was only because of the paradoxes that Hope was able to learn about Cocoon's fall in the first place.
P.S Now these are the fun FF13 discussions I enjoy!
Via Purifico
Banned
Well, when you have a game that had a short dev cycle environments are bound to look the same despite the games focus being time travel.
I agree that it was handled very badly and it felt like if it wasn't there it wouldn't have made a difference. The game needed more dev time for sure instead of just pumping it out for a quick cash grab.
I think that's just part of the shockwave from the impact. The meta shield buffered the fall by absorbing most of that shockwave, or that's how I'd imagine a meta shield would work. We never actually see the meta shield so it's all guess work. In Noel's flashbacks we see Cocoon falling without the meta shield and presumably the effect is like a nuke only less fiery.
Let's be honest here...cocoon's fall holds no weight in XIII-2.Like everyone pointed out they didn't have to build academia under the fucking thing.In XIII it mattered because humanity was on it...now It doesn't.Pulse is a very big world and cocoon is probably the size of a meteor in comparison.In all honesty cocoon could fall and they could survive if they were far enough.
The size relation is never explained well enough to justify the danger the fall of cocoon holds in XIII-2.In XIII it was the death of all humanity which made more sense but all of a sudden cocoon can destroy all of granpulse ?
The size relation is never explained well enough to justify the danger the fall of cocoon holds in XIII-2.In XIII it was the death of all humanity which made more sense but all of a sudden cocoon can destroy all of granpulse ?
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Furthermore I was saddened that the 13 arks weren't of more importance. These could only be accessed by Gran Pulse L'cie(sorry GILGAMESH, being an Orience L'cie ain't gonna work) and supposedly housed powerful weapons that I believe were made during or for the War of Transgression. One of the most important ones however is the 13th Ark. As it's the only one up and running on a Graviton core.
And if my prediction is correct I would believe the 13 Crystals that Snow mentioned in one of the alternate ending would be housed in each of these but I fear this path can no longer be taken. Unless LR can pull it off via lost civilizations or ruins. Specifically ruins of the 13 Arks.
I've said this once before. It's hilarious how the actual home planet is never in any danger.
And if my prediction is correct I would believe the 13 Crystals that Snow mentioned in one of the alternate ending would be housed in each of these but I fear this path can no longer be taken. Unless LR can pull it off via lost civilizations or ruins. Specifically ruins of the 13 Arks.
I've said this once before. It's hilarious how the actual home planet is never in any danger.
This leads to the big question: just how big is Gran Pulse?
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
They never gave a world map for this reason. To make it up as they go. But we can say it is rather large.
Via Purifico
Banned
Since you guys are talking about the story i thought the lore and overall storytelling in XIII was actually good minus some missteps. The game design just hindered it is all.
People may not like XIII and can name many things wrong with it but the lore and setting is not one of them. Square should have left the time travel idea for XIII-2 in the trash bin cause it wasn't executed as well as i hoped.
People may not like XIII and can name many things wrong with it but the lore and setting is not one of them. Square should have left the time travel idea for XIII-2 in the trash bin cause it wasn't executed as well as i hoped.
Is it ever explained ? I don't think so.Though cocoon is seen to be fairly big from the surface of granpulse it is also very close.Much closer than the moon is to our earth for example.You can judge the distance because the party's fall on to the planet was seen in realtime.
Gran pulse seems almost endless in comparison. Is it a planet ? An endless stretch of land ? Probably not "endless" but no clue has been given about the size.In XIII we visit a very small portion of the Pulse.Its never said what we see on pulse covers all of it.
Knowing that cocoon isn't too far, it doesn't have enough distance to gather up kinetic energy for a huge impact.That's my interpretation.
So then why is cocoon's fall so dangerous in XIII-2 ?
Yeah, the arks are barely ever mentioned other than they're supposed to be training grounds for l'cie, have powerful stuff inside, and that the 13th ark is rumored to house Bhunivelze in slumber. Wish that was expanded on more.
I really like the lore surrounding the XIII saga, it's just the pacing of the games and the presentation...they made an already convoluted mythos even more complicated, thrown in with the personal issues of the characters. (Though Serah, Hope, and Noel grew on me)
Damn. This planet must be 3-4x the size of Earth.
The mindboggling part of it all is that the mythos states that the entire planet is actually a god.
Femmeworth
Banned
For the life of me, I don't understand the structure of Cocoon.
Via Purifico
Banned
Wait what? 0.o
I agree they made it more complicated than it should have been. And what really irked me is when Lightning meets her former instructor at the academy and yet they never have personal dialog.
For me its reverse, i did not enjoy XIII-2 that much but i am interested in LR.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
That's the point I am trying to make. And Cocoon is supposed to be the smaller of the 2.
Meanwhile as I can see in the FNC Mythos, the Planet of Orience is likely not as large in scale.
Although there originally was going to be a 5th Western Nation past Byakko and a large landmass in the sky. Can't show it because no scans allowed.
Oh, oops. I was mistaken, Gran Pulse is named after Pulse
(God, with capital G)
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Pulse
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Gran_Pulse
This means that
the 'maker' the Cocoon Fal'cie wanted to bring back was in fact Pulse, not Bhunivelze.
EDIT:
Orience was a planet? So Humanity existed on multiple planets, not just Gran Pulse, is that correct?
or was it a planetoid?Via Purifico
Banned
Oh ok, thanks for that info and clarification. I really wished SE did better as the lore had so much potential.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Orience was a planet? So Humanity existed on multiple planets, not just Gran Pulse, is that correct?
As far as I can see each FNC title takes place in a separate world and if the past Crystal Mythos is any indication, I believe that XIII, Type 0/Agito, and Versus would have different planets within a certain solar system.
Although this is simply speculation brought about by the Creator from FFIV The After Years.
But the FNC mythos could also correlate to parallel dimensions through what is referred as the Unseen Realm which may also tie into the Interdimensional Rift.
It is quite interesting.
Unlikely.
That's massive. So basically,
every human dying on Gran Pulse would not actually be the end of humanity
Maybe. Or it could be a prequel, if the titles are all connected.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Separate. GILGAMESH is proof of this. Considering he was born on Orience.
And it seems his ability to traverse dimensions is not by fluke of ExDeath
Ah okay. Damn man, Gilgamesh is a bigger plot point than he looks like.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Unfortunately for you. Type 0 GILGAMESH is the same as all the rest. Especially in relation to FF5.
There are various factors that point to this.
Tribal War markings are the exact same.
Battle theme.
Hairstyle.
JP VA.
His build.
Acquirance of Genji Armor.
Weapon-seeking.
Morphed 8 Armed Form
Ability to traverse the Interdimensional Rift
First appearance once again on a Big Bridge.
Lorica his Kingdom is surrounded by Big Bridges.
Battle theme.
Hairstyle.
JP VA.
His build.
Acquirance of Genji Armor.
Weapon-seeking.
Morphed 8 Armed Form
Ability to traverse the Interdimensional Rift
First appearance once again on a Big Bridge.
Lorica his Kingdom is surrounded by Big Bridges.
I could go on...
Much like Shinryu and Omega. GILGAMESH seems to be a special case.
Yes I totally dropped the ball on this one.Gilgamesh is the same guy all across FF's worlds but he adapts to every world.Good point.
Wait, so there IS CONTINUITY BETWEEN FF TITLES? WHAT!?
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
The vague notion that she went into crystal stasis and slept for 300-500 years. Averting being corrupted by Chaos Energy and keeping Etro's will and Serah's soul via memory alive.
And if the Fragments After proclaims Lightning is the Goddess Etro's successor and inheritor of power, breaking out of stasis should be a relatively simple task.
Through the Interdimensional Rift all the worlds of FF can be seamlessly connected. But only those that are able to traverse them can actually reach those worlds. Shinryu, Omega, and GILGAMESH(as a bonafide fallen Warrior of Light) are such beings.
Gilgamesh is an anomaly.There are none :v
If he's the same though then that establishes continuity. It just means that
the dimensional walls are never properly broken, he just traverses them
WELP. I am fully expecting an FF about this now.
It's not.