In time for launch? I suspect not. In the future? Look at Sony now compared with Sony in 2005.
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Major Nelson: "We Are Listening!"
- Thread starter Miles Quaritch
- Start date
These problems all disappear if they just let you de-authenticate a game from your account, letting it be authenticated to someone else's account at no extra cost. A simple "remove from games library" option on the system.
It's as simple as printing a QR code or other 2D barcode on the disc and providing a query-able online database. At that point people can give games to friends or family, sell games to each other with proof of de-authorization a quick cell phone photo away, and Gamestop, etc. can keep doing their thing with an easy to use single extra scan to prove that a trade in has been de-authorized.
No one loses their rights to anything and you can still offer 100% disc free installs with no risk of disc sharing.
And?
Firstly, to the best of my knowledge this is entirely possibly in place even with within the bounds of what MS have already said, no? Secondly, this still requires a periodic online check.
LiquidSolid
Member
They could leave it exactly how it is on 360 - you install the game and use the disk in the machine as the authentication. If you don't have the disk in the machine you can't play it off the HDD. It is simple and consumer friendly.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
They're listening alright - to EA.
I said that, yes.
[edit]Sorry, it should have read, playing installed games off the HDD without the disc in. Thanks for pointing out the mistake.
Yeah - use disc for offline play. Would still enable 2 people playing one copy* but that's better than losing customers with a restrictive DRM and always online policy.
* one installs the game and plays by online check, the other person keeps the disc and keeps being offline. Could be avoided by an one-time online activation.
You don't have to require the disc at all, have the codes, have the online activation and then when someone else uses the disc with the code have it deactivate your copy. That's the best of all worlds in my opinion.
Not having to switch discs is a great feature for consumers, its putting your entire game library at your finger tips instead of collecting dust on your shelf.
Not having to switch discs is a great feature for consumers, its putting your entire game library at your finger tips instead of collecting dust on your shelf.
Nope not even that:
*Put disk in the machine
*Installs in the background while playing
*If you try and play without the game disk in the machine it won't let you.
*That then removes the requirement of online verification of any type.
Monty Mole
Member
I actually like the idea of not having to swap discs every time I want to play a different game though, especially those which I dip in and out of like sports, racing games etc.
So, I suppose in that sense, I'm technically "Pro-DRM".
That wouldn't work without being always online as your are able to play your games on other Xbox one consoles by logging into your account.
Could be avoided by post-offline check. If it has been played at the same time it could be discovered by such a check. Abuse could be punished by not allowing game(license) to be played on any system for x days. Continued abuse could be punished to locking users accounts for x days.
This allows for user to play the game installed without the disk when in contact with servers.
sakipon
Member
I actually like the idea of not having to swap discs every time I want to play a different game though, especially those which I dip in and out of like sports, racing games etc.
So, I suppose in that sense, I'm technically "Pro-DRM".
So why don't you buy games digitally then..? Why is this necessarily for discs?
Letting consumers choose between them is the key.
Monty Mole
Member
Erm, surely the answer to your question is obvious? Because discs are cheaper.
So you mean you'd also need the disc when being online?
Not always online, just online once in a while, either a day or a week if they are feeling generous.
And it wouldn't have to apply to games you downloaded, just anything activated with a code.
Tyrone_Biggums
Banned
Isn't the purpose for the 'download to hard drive' because of the immediate switching between TV, games and/or movies? That option wouldn't work effectively if the system had to boot a disc every time the player switched options.
And if that is indeed the case, it's understandable why the system would want an online check to verify the content, else people would just download and then sell the disc for money. The system (gaming) would absolutely break under those conditions.
And really, PC fans who love Steam should have no issue with this, and since this is GAF, the environment for gamers, you could safely assume most folks utilize Steam.
So again, given the abilities the system provides, there has to be an online check at some interval.
And if that is indeed the case, it's understandable why the system would want an online check to verify the content, else people would just download and then sell the disc for money. The system (gaming) would absolutely break under those conditions.
And really, PC fans who love Steam should have no issue with this, and since this is GAF, the environment for gamers, you could safely assume most folks utilize Steam.
So again, given the abilities the system provides, there has to be an online check at some interval.
But that is basically what people expect from the statements after the reveal...
I actually like the idea of not having to swap discs every time I want to play a different game though, especially those which I dip in and out of like sports, racing games etc.
So, I suppose in that sense, I'm technically "Pro-DRM".
I have a solution to that:
*System gives a friendly message at the end of a play session.
*"You can buy a discounted digital copy of the game for £9.99/$9.99/€9.99".
*This will convert the license to a digital copy and can be played without the disk, and it is yours forever.
*You are then able to sell/trade the disk with any third party.
*That disk then is able to be installed and played with disk check on any other system, with NO penalising system
You won't sell the idea to some - but others will - plus it keeps all ecosystems and gently acclimatises people to using more digital content.
It's a direct follow up of what they started with the 360. They allowed full install, with the limitation that you had to keep the disc in the console. A lot of people weren't happy about it and wanted more. So if you don't need the disc, there's no other way but to have some online check otherwise it could be installed on more than one console. I don't see how this is a hopeful dream.
Disc check could be used as a backup verification method whenever the console is offline. Makes the Xbox One games futureproof, online checks makes games worthless when servers go down.
Tyrone_Biggums
Banned
Wouldn't surprise me if that's part of the plan as it almost seems like common sense because of potential online disconnects. E3 should be fairly enlightening.
How else can you turn on a console with your voice?
RepairmanJack
Member
This reads to me like they are listening to the fact that they haven't been clear, and less so that we want this stuff gone. "Rounding up answers"? That helps, but it really dosen't fix the issues.
immortal-joe
Member
Would be funny if they completely change from this policy and then go "see? We told you to wait for confirmed info!"
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
Is it disturbing anyone else that the more vocal members for microsoft in this thread are tending to be juniors?
BruiserBear
Banned
I think Microsoft wants to get this shit out of the way prior to E3. I think we'll get clarification in the next few days.
TheLegendary
Member
So MS PR is still scrambling round trying to find a way to spin them into something that sounds reasonable, then. If they knew their plan was acceptable, it wouldn't be taking this long. I mean "Does your system allow used games and if so, are there associated fees?" is not a difficult question to answer.
Well, I guess that depends on what people are angry about.
There are people out there who hate them as a company regardless of anything to do with Xbox One. Nothing they do regarding the console will ever make these people happy.
There are people upset about the required Kinect thing. I don't see why they couldn't let you disable the thing at the system level. Any games that need it might not work without it being plugged in, but there's no reason they couldn't allow you to turn the thing off. I don't think there's any way they're getting away from the thing being in every box, so if people are just furious about the thing existing at all, I don't think there's anything they can do to please that subset.
There are people upset about the DRM policies. There's no reason they couldn't back out of these completely before launch. Require the disc to be in when playing any game that was installed from a disc. done. None of these games are gold yet - nobody should have any problem updating the code to work by launch.
It's too late to substantially change the hardware. They may find when they get the final silicon that they can safely clock things a bit higher than they anticipate. For that matter they may find that they have to reduce clocks for heat/stability reasons. I doubt either of these scenarios will make much of a difference in the long run. The hardware is what it is. I think it's adequate to compete with PS4 even though it's less powerful. Some people may disagree, but we'll all know when we see the games whether or not they look good enough.
if their business models for the Xbox One needs to change because of this we cannot expect a quick answer. Especially if they need to renegotiate deals with publishers.
The only thing they can't change between now and then is likely architecture and hardware. Software I'm sure is still being worked on so any potential changes to online requirements and DRM should be doable.
Hoho for breakfast
Member
I haven't had time to read through the thread to really know what you're talking about so maybe this is completely irrelevant, but as more of a Sony fan, I'll still be happy if Xbox eases up on the DRM.
It's better for everyone in the long run and may even persuade me to buy an Xbox sometime down the road.
Edit: Not that I actually believe they're going to "ease up" on the DRM enough for my tastes, but I can hope.
It could definitely more complicated than that. You could be right, and they may be looking for a way to spin it, but they may also be working on a new plan. If so, they would probably require a lot of meetings and probably a few business deals to be altered.
it is Friday
No way would they go out with a message about policy changes on a Friday.
Monday or Tuesday next week, or we will have to wait until E3.
Though I expect lots of people at Redmond will be working the entire weekend due to this.
They will need to prepare and educate.
No way would they go out with a message about policy changes on a Friday.
Monday or Tuesday next week, or we will have to wait until E3.
Though I expect lots of people at Redmond will be working the entire weekend due to this.
They will need to prepare and educate.
This is true. Although that then raises the question, if they are indeed changing their plans from the rumoured ones to something less restrictive and more agreeable - surely someone, somewhere within MS must have realised that their original policies wouldn't go down well with consumers?
You'd think someone would have noticed the grumbling over the rumors (other than Adam Orth...) but who can really say?
WarMacheen
Member
No answers today.
Sorry Larry, Kinect has recognized your use of the term "Soon", which is Blizzards trademark language. Please refrain from future use of this term unless you officially license it at $10.99 per use. Thank you
subtleglitch
Neo Member
I doubt we're going to get any game changing answers from him. We're going to have to wait till E3. Microsoft have been very good at avoiding answering any real questions so far.
VanquishUK
Member
Surely there'll be an option to turn that off anyway? Is there power button on the console itself?
I agree. And if we get through the E3 conference without this being addressed on stage, I think it's safe to assume the worst.
But at that time the rumors were a 3 minute connection check. They probably thought once every 24hours was good enough.
Fixed that for you
Makes no sense for either of them to cause "controversy" before E3