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Gabe Newell comments on Valve's move from Half-Life to multiplayer games

J

Jobbs

Banned
angular graphics said:
You can see they are working on it. It might or might not come soon. That's different.

The point is if people work on it they obviously care about it.
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I think obviously there's been some kind of work, internally, on some kind of follow up. The point is this: How many years of no announcement and no unveiling of any kind can you go before you kinda start to feel like the game isn't the priority, especially following such an urgent cliffhanger? 7 years? 10 years? 20 years? There was a time when it seemed implicit that the episodes would be like, a couple years apart, if that.
 
S

SteveWinwood

Member
NeranysXtian said:
What exactly are you trying to do tage other than trolling people who wish Valve put at least an ounce of focus on SP experiences?

You keep saying HL3 is proven to exist... but there's good reason to be skeptical of the link that was posted. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't... having people on a team doesn't mean anything is actually being worked on... not like Source 2 which we know is being at least worked on.

So basically all you've been doing in this thread is being an ass to people who have different tastes in games than you.

You like dota2... good for you. Being an ass to people who aren't interested in Valves MP/Social gaming that's been done in the past 6 years does little further any discussion in this thread... because at this point you're nothing more than just a troll trying to scream "my opinion is right, you're wrong".

Your shtick is old and tired at this point.
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That's the second time in this thread I've posted about Dota 2 in this thread. Plenty of others have but not me. You might be confusing me for someone else.

And we literally have the same amount of evidence of HL3, Source 2, and L4D 3... but don't let that stop you.

Also nice tag.
 
N

NervousXtian

Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
angular graphics said:
You can see they are working on it. It might or might not come soon. That's different.

The point is if people work on it they obviously care about it.
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Do you work for Valve?

That list of names doesn't prove anything at all. If someone from Valve would say yes it's in production, past just an idea phase but in actual production.. then you'd have something. That list of names proves nothing at all.

There was 100% a team working on Ep3 at one time, that's much is certain. It was obviously dropped, reworked, forgotten, picked up again, reworked, dropped... something for the past 7 years.

So unless you work for Valve or have actual inside information, that list means nothing more than a list of names and teams that may or may not exist in a serious fashion.
 
A

angular graphics

Banned
Jobbs said:
I think obviously there's been some kind of work, internally, on some kind of follow up. The point is this: How many years of no announcement and no unveiling of any kind can you go before you kinda start to feel like the game isn't the priority, especially following such an urgent cliffhanger? 7 years? 10 years? 20 years?
Click to expand...

It sucks. But it is nothing new. That is the concept of Valve Time, which no, it wasn't born to describe the HL3 situation but it applies to that as well.

ashecitism said:
Kelly Bailey being back was probably the best news from that thread :')
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And Adam Foster finally working on it. Hhhhhhhhhhhhhnnnnnnnnggg.
 
J

Jobbs

Banned
angular graphics said:
It sucks. But it is nothing new. That is the concept of Valve Time, which no, it wasn't born to describe the HL3 situation but it applies to that as well.
Click to expand...

And you have this situation going along with the OP interview and Gabe saying single player design isn't the focus or isn't what's important. Combine this with the lack of any HL3 or ep3 and it's not hard to conclude they just don't care much.
 
S

SamVimes

Member
Jobbs said:
I'm not sure what you mean. But if you say you're going to make a trilogy, and just stop at episode 2, with a massive cliffhanger, at that -- And then don't ever follow up in any way after 7 years, despite having all the resources you'd ever need to do so -- This means you aren't prioritizing fans' desires very highly. I don't see how it means anything else. I'd be open to hearing an explanation of how my logic is flawed, but that's how I see it.
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Because when the game ships no one is gonna give a shit how much time they waited, only thing that's gonna matter is if it's really good or just another fps.
 
V

ViewtifulJC

Banned
Jobbs said:
And you have this situation going along with the OP interview and Gabe saying single player design isn't the focus or isn't what's important. Combine this with the lack of any HL3 or ep3 and it's not hard to conclude they just don't care much.
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I think its just the opposite, that they care TOO much about producing something worthy of the HL legacy. They're not gonna show anything until they're confident in the direction, something that's as big a leap forward as HL1 and HL2 were at the time of their release.
 
A

angular graphics

Banned
Jobbs said:
And you have this situation going along with the OP interview and Gabe saying single player design isn't the focus or isn't what's important. Combine this with the lack of any HL3 or ep3 and it's not hard to conclude they just don't care much.
Click to expand...

Nope. Because if you have been paying attention you would realize this is more of the same Gabe said 2 years ago. People were in arms about the supposed abandonment of singleplayer by Valve, but Gabe explained singleplayer games will not cease to exist. They will evolve.

http://kotaku.com/5799661/valve-turns-to-singleplayer+plus-not-no-more-singleplayer-says-chief

I think what we're trying to talk about is the fact is not that we're not thinking about single-player games..Portal 2 I think is a pretty good example of what we've learned over the years in terms of how to create those [single-player] experiences.

It's more that we think that we have to work harder in the future. That entertainment is inherently increased in value by having it be social, by letting you play with your friends, by recognizing that you're connected with other people.

Single-player is great, but we also have to recognize that you have friends and wanted to have that connected as well.

It's not about giving up on single-player at all. It's saying we actually think there are a bunch of features and capabilities that we need to add into our single-player games to recognize the socially connected gamer. Every gamer has instant messaging, every gamer has a Facebook account. If you pretend that that doesn't exist, you're ignoring the problems that you're taking on.

It's single-player plus, not ‘no more single-player.'
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Two keywords:
- they need to work *harder* on SP experiences, not less as you say.
- and the other keyword is *add*, not remove.

Singleplayer has to scale as an experience for the socially aware gamer. This doesn't mean it needs to become multiplayer.

Either you listen fully to what Gabe says, actually explaining what it means for SP games, or you don't at all.
 
W

water_wendi

Water is not wet!
PairOfFilthySocks said:
No. They hired the group. They did not just buy the idea, they hired the people behind it, too. This is business. This is logic. This cannot be argued.
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i can argue it. If they didnt have the idea they wouldnt have been hired.

You can hate Valve because they changed their License agreements of Steam games to be subscription-based to get around refunds.

You can hate Valve because they are expending so much energy creating an OS and custom hardware to move into a market that doesn't look terribly fruitful or interesting to the end-consumer.

You can hate Valve because they've turned their back on their original fans and thrown their lot in with the social multiplayer crowd(and you should get particularly upset about that line about HL design in the OP).

But no, instead you are going to hate Valve because of half-arsed, half-baked reasons you haven't thought through at all, and now that you've shown you haven't a clue what you're talking about, you're just going to remain stubborn and fart out obtuse, goal-post-moving arguments that aren't relevant at all. This argument is a waste of time.
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im going to be honest.. i dont think think there is a single area or topic concerning Valve where i will not take the argument against them. At least the opportunity hasnt presented itself that i can remember. Now that im focusing on it im going to try to think of something positive to say about Valve and/or Steam.
 
A

angular graphics

Banned
NervousXtian said:
Do you work for Valve?

That list of names doesn't prove anything at all. If someone from Valve would say yes it's in production, past just an idea phase but in actual production.. then you'd have something. That list of names proves nothing at all.

There was 100% a team working on Ep3 at one time, that's much is certain. It was obviously dropped, reworked, forgotten, picked up again, reworked, dropped... something for the past 7 years.

So unless you work for Valve or have actual inside information, that list means nothing more than a list of names and teams that may or may not exist in a serious fashion.
Click to expand...

If you wish to remain skeptical, fair enough. But then it doesn't mean it isn't being worked either.. unless you work for Valve and have something to share with us. ;P
 
RoadHazard

RoadHazard

Gold Member
ctw0e said:
You don't like Dota 2 or CSGO, got it.
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Not really, no. Or rather, I'm just not very interested in those types of games. I'm more into great single player experiences than putting hundreds of hours into some online game to become even half decent at it. Valve were once masters of the former, but they don't seem interested in it anymore. So that makes me not very interested in what they're doing beyond Steam itself.
 
W

Wthermans

Banned
Jobbs said:
I think obviously there's been some kind of work, internally, on some kind of follow up. The point is this: How many years of no announcement and no unveiling of any kind can you go before you kinda start to feel like the game isn't the priority, especially following such an urgent cliffhanger? 7 years? 10 years? 20 years? There was a time when it seemed implicit that the episodes would be like, a couple years apart, if that.
Click to expand...
Yep,I don't see how anyone that followed Valve's fellation of Episodic content and then completely dropped their support of said content when they actually had to write (and 3d translate), said experience; could believe a word of HL3.
 
M

morningbus

Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
RoadHazard said:
Not really, no. Or rather, I'm just not very interested in those types of games. I'm more into great single player experiences than putting hundreds of hours into some online game to become even half decent at it. Valve were once masters of the former, but they don't seem interested in it anymore. So that makes me not very interested in what they're doing beyond Steam itself.
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How long has it been since they've put out a single player game?
 
S

sega4ever

Member
whats up with all the babies in this thread crying about half life 3? there was about an 8 year gap between team fortress classic and tf2 with many different scrapped versions in between. and tf2 was amazing.
 
I

Ikuu

Had his dog run over by Blizzard's CEO
Shame to see people so down, Dota 2 is the best game they've ever made and it's getting better and the work they did to Global Offensive this year was pretty impressive too.
 
D

Deleted member 22576

Unconfirmed Member
morningbus said:
Aw, I wanted him to say it.

These type of comments started so soon after Portal 2, it was head-spinning.
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Like right as Portal2 came out Gabe said "enjoy it, its gonna be the last SP game from us." Or something similar enough that the entire internet interpreted it that way.
 
O

Orayn

Member
LiK said:
HL3 is gonna be some F2P MMO junk confirmed
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Because Valve is in the habit of making those, right?

Even sarcastically this is a dumb comment because it's identical to about half the other posts in the thread.

Jtwo said:
Like right as Portal2 came out Gabe said "enjoy it, its gonna be the last SP game from us." Or something similar enough that the entire internet interpreted it that way.
Click to expand...

He said it would be their last isolated single player experience, which can mean a lot of things. The Doom WAD scene, for example, could be interpreted as a single player experience that's highly connected and social.

It's not a coincidence that the Steam Workshop makes that sort of thing very easy to implement.
 
A

ashecitism

Member
To be frank, if I want to nitpick Ep 2 ending wasn't really a cliffhanger. Yes, it ended on a bad note, but it's not like "OMG what will happen to the protagonist? What will happen next?" type ending.
 
E

Extra Sauce

Member
I thought Valve's main philosophy was to make their customers love and trust them. Telling a mega popular and critically-acclaimed story and abandoning it just before the final chapter seems counter-productive to that.
 
S

SteveWinwood

Member
xtrasauce said:
I thought Valve's main philosophy was to make their customers love and trust them. Telling a mega popular and critically-acclaimed story and abandoning it just before the final chapter seems counter-productive to that.
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nah I think focusing on making a game good enough for their fans expectations and taking their time is a lot more respecting of their fans than shitting out some sequel the only reason they wanted to make was because of whining fans and money

just me though maybe
 
L

LiK

Member
Orayn said:
Because Valve is in the habit of making those, right?

Even sarcastically this is a dumb comment because it's identical to about half the other posts in the thread.
Click to expand...

And you'll get plenty of stupid shit like HL3 hats and chests. Cuz Valve likes making those these days.

FYI, I don't keep track of every comment in a thread but thanks for keeping track for me.
 
K

Kinyou

Member
Bedameister said:
Plus they will never live up to the hype.
I don't think we will ever get HL3.
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I agree. Just releasing another shooter would probably not be enough anymore.
What I could imagine is that they make HL3 occulus rift only or something like that. This way it would offer a totally new experience while at the same time many short comings could be blamed on "figuring stuff still out"
 
I

infiniteheteroskdasticity

Member
To paraphrase Gabe - "we're more interested in making steady money from gaming as a service than we are in making blips of money from games which is why I'm not interested in making single player games". There's nothing wrong with that and the bottom line for every business is making money. What is somewhat funny is that EA's Frank Gibeau said something very similar and rightly got hauled over the coals for it.

For me, I think it is yet another signpost on Valve's descent from being one of the most innovative developers around to being Zynga on steroids. They clearly still have a lot of talent as seen in the occasional gems like Portal 2 but they prefer to use most of it on their Social/online only games. It will be good for Valve but bad for gaming. Saying that all games need to be social multiplayer experiences ignores the success of games like Skyrim, GTA 5 and The Last Of Us that hinged on their incredible single player campaigns. Even the ever unpopular EA manages to make most of their games work without forcing multiplayer (the offline SP mode of NFS Rivals is pretty good). There's a place for all kinds of games and not every game needs to have a social/online aspect.

I have no doubt Valve will do well but I'm not particularly interested in them anymore. I look more to Naughty Dog, Bethesda, Rockstar and even the big publishers (EA/Activision/Ubisoft) for innovation in the sorts of games I like to play.
 
S

sega4ever

Member
infiniteheteroskdasticity said:
To paraphrase Gabe - "we're more interested in making steady money from gaming as a service than we are in making blips of money from games which is why I'm not interested in making single player games". There's nothing wrong with that and the bottom line for every business is making money. What is somewhat funny is that EA's Frank Gibeau said something very similar and rightly got hauled over the coals for it.

For me, I think it is yet another signpost on Valve's descent from being one of the most innovative developers around to being Zynga on steroids. They clearly still have a lot of talent as seen in the occasional gems like Portal 2 but they prefer to use most of it on their Social/online only games. It will be good for Valve but bad for gaming. Saying that all games need to be social multiplayer experiences ignores the success of games like Skyrim, GTA 5 and The Last Of Us that hinged on their incredible single player campaigns. Even the ever unpopular EA manages to make most of their games work without forcing multiplayer (the offline SP mode of NFS Rivals is pretty good). There's a place for all kinds of games and not every game needs to have a social/online aspect.

I have no doubt Valve will do well but I'm not particularly interested in them anymore. I look more to Naughty Dog, Bethesda, Rockstar and even the big publishers (EA/Activision/Ubisoft) for innovation in the sorts of games I like to play.
Click to expand...

if valve were to give you what you want, a phoned in by the numbers sequel to half life 2 you and others like you would be the first ones to post bitching about how its not their not innovative and lost their touch.
 
O

Orayn

Member
LiK said:
And you'll get plenty of stupid shit like HL3 hats and chests. Cuz Valve likes making those these days.

FYI, I don't keep track of every comment in a thread but thanks for keeping track for me.
Click to expand...

I must have missed all the shitty games Valve made, would you mind naming a few?
 
I

infiniteheteroskdasticity

Member
sega4ever said:
if valve were to give you what you want, a phoned in by the numbers sequel to half life 2 you and others like you would be the first ones to post bitching about how its not their not innovative and lost their touch.
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So you don't think Valve still has the capacity to make a innovative sequel to Half Life 2 in 10 years? There has been plenty of innovation in that time (even in FPSs) and we've gotten Halo, Bioshock and a bunch of other FPSs that showed it can be done. The issue is they're making plenty of money for a lot less effort on Steam, DOTA and the rest. That's why they're not a top tier developer any more, just a very well run service provider.

And I'd take a completely generic, by the numbers HL2 successor over a MMOFPS or whatever it ends up being when it comes out in 2025.
 
W

Wthermans

Banned
ashecitism said:
To be frank, if I want to nitpick Ep 2 ending wasn't really a cliffhanger. Yes, it ended on a bad note, but it's not like "OMG what will happen to the protagonist? What will happen next?" type ending.
Click to expand...
The entire ending happens on your way to a new level (Aurora/Artic)....

infiniteheteroskdasticity said:
To paraphrase Gabe - "we're more interested in making steady money from gaming as a service than we are in making blips of money from games which is why I'm not interested in making single player games". There's nothing wrong with that and the bottom line for every business is making money. What is somewhat funny is that EA's Frank Gibeau said something very similar and rightly got hauled over the coals for it.

For me, I think it is yet another signpost on Valve's descent from being one of the most innovative developers around to being Zynga on steroids. They clearly still have a lot of talent as seen in the occasional gems like Portal 2 but they prefer to use most of it on their Social/online only games. It will be good for Valve but bad for gaming. Saying that all games need to be social multiplayer experiences ignores the success of games like Skyrim, GTA 5 and The Last Of Us that hinged on their incredible single player campaigns. Even the ever unpopular EA manages to make most of their games work without forcing multiplayer (the offline SP mode of NFS Rivals is pretty good). There's a place for all kinds of games and not every game needs to have a social/online aspect.

I have no doubt Valve will do well but I'm not particularly interested in them anymore. I look more to Naughty Dog, Bethesda, Rockstar and even the big publishers (EA/Activision/Ubisoft) for innovation in the sorts of games I like to play.
Click to expand...
I agree but I look to no one for innovation. Everything "innovative" from the examples you listed are just natural evolutions.
 
I

infiniteheteroskdasticity

Member
Wthermans said:
The entire ending happens on your way to a new level (Aurora/Artic)....


I agree but I look to no one for innovation. Everything "innovative" from the examples you listed are just natural evolutions.
Click to expand...

I guess "innovation" was not the best choice of words. What I was trying to say is that we're more likely to see something that blows our minds from Sony, Microsoft, Ubisoft, EA or Activision than we are from Valve.
 
A

ashecitism

Member
Wthermans said:
The entire ending happens on your way to a new level (Aurora/Artic)....
Click to expand...

But Gordon or the plot isn't in uncertainty. You close the portal then prepare for the Borealis, then youknowhat happens and you're left with Gordon, Alyx and Dog in the hangar. Had it ended with the Advisor grabbing you and switching to blackscreen, then that would be a cliffhanger. If Ep2 ended it with you and Alyx taking off with heli, would that be a cliffhanger? I don't think so.
 
E

Extra Sauce

Member
SteveWinwood said:
nah I think focusing on making a game good enough for their fans expectations and taking their time is a lot more respecting of their fans than shitting out some sequel the only reason they wanted to make was because of whining fans and money

just me though maybe
Click to expand...

Taking their time? That's not what this is about.
 
P

PairOfFilthySocks

Member
ashecitism said:
But Gordon or the plot isn't in uncertainty. You close the portal then prepare for the Borealis, then youknowhat happens and you're left with Gordon, Alyx and Dog in the hangar. Had it ended with the Advisor grabbing you and switching to blackscreen, then that would be a cliffhanger. If Ep2 ended it with you and Alyx taking off with heli, would that be a cliffhanger? I don't think so.
Click to expand...

It ended with the dangliest of dangling loose ends imaginable. It's a cliff-hanger.
 
C

CF_Fighter

Member
Hell, if they aren't going to make a HL3 game just have Laidlaw write a book with the final bit of the story; Borealis, connection to Aperture Science, Fall of the Combine, and who the GMan is and why Gordon is so important to him. Publish it as an E-Book and just get the saga over with once and for all.
 
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