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[HariKari]

It seems so, but it's just so weird to see. I mean, out of all the major gaming companies out there Valve are easily the most customer-friendly bunch (I don't consider CD Project to be a major gaming company but they are awesome). I'm inclined to believe that most people who are so hostile towards Valve are either hardcore console fans who see them as a threat or hardcore DRM-free fans who don't consider Valve's system acceptable. Otherwise I really have no idea why someone would be so negative towards them.

Option 3: Longtime Valve fans are growing resentful of the new direction the company is taking that is seemingly focused on Steam revenue and low risk multiplayer titles.

... why?

They're almost as big as Valve.

I mean, speaking of it's hip to think things about gaming companies...

Almost as big in terms of personnel? Sure
On the same playing field in terms of revenue? Not even close.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Option 3: Longtime Valve fans are growing resentful of the new direction the company is taking that is seemingly focused on Steam revenue and low risk multiplayer titles.

Which is where it's been for the past since HL2.

 

[angular graphics]

Well, you went from being all certain it's being made to this. Not sure why you made such a big point of linking that thread like it actually meant something. There's a reason that thread died after 2 pages.

No. I am certain it is being made. But I do not enjoy repeating myself for the nth time. I basically told you "have it your way then, and prove to me that it's not being worked". You can't. I can and did provide evidence that is being worked on, which you choose to ignore. That's fine. Evidence to the contrary doesn't exist though.

And I posted evidence of a single person working on RE7 and the thread lasted for 6 pages, what does that prove? Nothing.

 

[Morzak]

It seems so, but it's just so weird to see. I mean, out of all the major gaming companies out there Valve are easily the most customer-friendly bunch (I don't consider CD Project to be a major gaming company but they are awesome). I'm inclined to believe that most people who are so hostile towards Valve are either hardcore console fans who see them as a threat or hardcore DRM-free fans who don't consider Valve's system acceptable. Otherwise I really have no idea why someone would be so negative towards them.

Or it could be that people actually read their TOS and see that their not that customer friendly. They don't make stupid moves that get the community riled up, but their TOS doesn't say customer friendly in anyway. Oh and if you look what it says about SteamWorkshop it gets interesting, Valve gets the rights to everything distributed over it. They aren't horrible but they aren't as great as some people make them out to be, the Valve worship in some parts of the PC community is just creepy.

It's pretty clear why they follow the social multiplayer stuff, because it's where they make a ton of money, and those games get even more people into the Steam ecosystem. They don't even have to use big teams maintaining those titles because the content is created mostly by the community and they found a good way to monetise it.

 

[alexandros]

Or it could be that people actually read their TOS and see that their not that customer friendly.

I said they are the most customer friendly, compared to similar companies. They are still a business and they want money, no one should forget that. They're just not being assholes about it.

Option 3: Longtime Valve fans are growing resentful of the new direction the company is taking that is seemingly focused on Steam revenue and low risk multiplayer titles.

I don't like their multiplayer focus either. But Steam has done great things for PC gaming and they are absolutely right to be focusing on that.

... why?

They're almost as big as Valve.

I mean, speaking of it's hip to think things about gaming companies...

As much as I would love to live in a world where CD Project is as powerful as Valve, this is not the world we live in today. Valve's clout and influence dwarfs that of CD Project's.

 

[MickeyKnox]

Day of Defeat is kinda shitty.

Day of Defeat was one of the best shooters of it's fucking time, Source was an abomination.

 

[Wthermans]

But Gordon or the plot isn't in uncertainty. You close the portal then prepare for the Borealis, then youknowhat happens and you're left with Gordon, Alyx and Dog in the hangar. Had it ended with the Advisor grabbing you and switching to blackscreen, then that would be a cliffhanger. If Ep2 ended it with you and Alyx taking off with heli, would that be a cliffhanger? I don't think so.

Given that the Episodes are just expanding on the original HL2 cliffhanger, and we've yet to get any real resolution in the HL series, yes it is a cliffhanger.

 

[jelly]

One thing that has started to bug me about Valve is seeing them go deeper down the OCD achievement hole with cards, badges etc. Entirely optional but a trend in gaming that I dislike as it tends to be at the forefront of everything now. Hooked on unlocks rather than the meat of the game.

 

[Sneds]

One thing that has started to bug me about Valve is seeing them go deeper down the OCD achievement hole with cards, badges etc. Entirely optional but a trend in gaming that I dislike as it tends to be at the forefront of everything now. Hooked on unlocks rather than the meat of the game.

I'm playing TF2 at the moment and am really enjoying it but all of the costume stuff they've added since going free to play has ruined the game's aesthetic.

TF2 used to have a really consistent and coherent art style but that just isn't the case anymore. Some of the characters I see running around really look terrible.

Personally, I find the way unlocks have been implemented to be a distraction. I can just ignore it though and am just going to trade or delete any crates I find. The idea of buying keys to open mystery crates is really distasteful to me. If Valve are such nice guys then why wouldn't they allow people to actually know exactly what is in a crate before they spend money to open it?

 

[Can Crusher]

Valve is a total mood killer. Jeez

 

[Htown]

Valve created TF2 and then sold it for money as part of the Orange Box. They then made the game free to play and subsequently made a lot more money through selling keys to mystery boxes. I think that they can afford to, and should, give community creators more than 25% for the sale of items. If you think 75-25 split is reasonable then again we'll have to agree to disagree.

And I'm not naive but just because other companies underpay their workers does not give Valve a free pass.

You do realize that paying fans for creating content for a game is not a thing that usually happens, right?

Usually non-employees who make cosmetic stuff and maps for games get nothing, except maybe some e-cred. Valve went "hey these guys are actually adding value, why don't we put their stuff up on the store and let them get some money for it", and your response is "THEY ARE EXPLOITING THE COMMON MAN!"

What?

 

[Sneds]

You do realize that paying fans for creating content for a game is not a thing that usually happens, right?

Usually non-employees who make cosmetic stuff and maps for games get nothing, except maybe some e-cred. Valve went "hey these guys are actually adding value, why don't we put their stuff up on the store and let them get some money for it", and your response is "THEY ARE EXPLOITING THE COMMON MAN!"

What?

Yes. Is it so hard to believe that I think a 25-75 split is unreasonable?

 

[alexandros]

Yes. Is it so hard to believe that I think a 25-75 split is unreasonable?

Yes. Valve are still doing most of the work by providing the platform, the game and the infrastructure.

 

[danmaku]

I'm playing TF2 at the moment and am really enjoying it but all of the costume stuff they've added since going free to play has ruined the game's aesthetic.

TF2 used to have a really consistent and coherent art style but that just isn't the case anymore. Some of the characters I see running around really look terrible.

Personally, I find the way unlocks have been implemented to be a distraction. I can just ignore it though and am just going to trade or delete any crates I find. The idea of buying keys to open mystery crates is really distasteful to me. If Valve are such nice guys then why wouldn't they allow people to actually know exactly what is in a crate before they spend money to open it?

Not sure if serious.jpg

Crates are a lottery. Why don't those fucking bastards tell us in advance which are the winning tickets?

 

[jelly]

I'm playing TF2 at the moment and am really enjoying it but all of the costume stuff they've added since going free to play has ruined the game's aesthetic.

TF2 used to have a really consistent and coherent art style but that just isn't the case anymore. Some of the characters I see running around really look terrible.

Personally, I find the way unlocks have been implemented to be a distraction. I can just ignore it though and am just going to trade or delete any crates I find. The idea of buying keys to open mystery crates is really distasteful to me. If Valve are such nice guys then why wouldn't they allow people to actually know exactly what is in a crate before they spend money to open it?

I had a lot of fun with TF2 but don't play much anymore. There is still good servers to nullify it but the boat kinda sailed for me once they threw the kitchen sink in.

 

[Sneds]

Yes. Valve are still doing most of the work by providing the platform, the game and the infrastructure.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[ashecitism]

It ended with the dangliest of dangling loose ends imaginable. It's a cliff-hanger.

What loose end?

Given that the Episodes are just expanding on the original HL2 cliffhanger, and we've yet to get any real resolution in the HL series, yes it is a cliffhanger.

HL2's ending was as much of a cliffhanger as HL1. Gordon finished his task and Gman was ready to take him to the next mission whatever, whenever, wherever it might have been. Gman is the biggets mystery in the series, but seeing as how he can be interpreted as an allegory for Valve, I'm not sure we'll ever get a proper resolution for him.

One thing that has started to bug me about Valve is seeing them go deeper down the OCD achievement hole with cards, badges etc. Entirely optional but a trend in gaming that I dislike as it tends to be at the forefront of everything now. Hooked on unlocks rather than the meat of the game.

Steam is the one they gamified the most, their games save for cosmetics are still pure and gameplay based. CS, Dota and L4D all have learning curves and lack instant gratification and gametime padding compared to other similar games.

 

[Sneds]

Not sure if serious.jpg

Crates are a lottery. Why don't those fucking bastards tell us in advance which are the winning tickets?

Because gambling isn't something that I think is healthy for the games industry to embrace. I think it's harmful.

I realise that the crates are a lottery, that's what I don't like about them.

 

[NervousXtian]

One thing that has started to bug me about Valve is seeing them go deeper down the OCD achievement hole with cards, badges etc. Entirely optional but a trend in gaming that I dislike as it tends to be at the forefront of everything now. Hooked on unlocks rather than the meat of the game.

Well, it's the trend gaming seems to be moving these days. It's about making addictive experiences and monetizing it in some method. It's that one-more game mentality hook. Adding in badges, cards, achievements.. all more hooks.

It's smart on Valve's part, as it works. Just like being a dirty salesman works better than being a nice one, as much as that pained me when I did sales.

 

[alexandros]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Of course, I can absolutely understand why someone would disagree.

 

[angular graphics]

Yes. Is it so hard to believe that I think a 25-75 split is unreasonable?

Maybe it should be a 33 - 67 split, but that's about it. Certainly not higher than that.

 

[danmaku]

Because gambling isn't something that I think is healthy for the games industry to embrace. I think it's harmful.

I realise that the crates are a lottery, that's what I don't like about them.

I failed to see the sarcasm, then. I don't like that part of their strategy too. Selling cosmetic items? fine. Selling overpriced cosmetic items? fine. Gambling? no. Still better than selling items that impact the game, though.

 

[Sneds]

Of course, I can absolutely understand why someone would disagree.

Cool. I actually agree with people who say that Valve do generally treat their community better than most companies. It is good that Valve allow the community creators to make money from their hard work. Other companies should follow suit (but with a more even split).

What irks me is when I read articles and neogaf posts which paint this relationship as though Valve are doing the community creators a favour.

 

[Cato the Censor]

And you'll get plenty of stupid shit like HL3 hats and chests. Cuz Valve likes making those these days.

And if Half-Life 3 or L4D3 had the steam workshop possibilites so that designers like Anuxi could create artwork and models for these games, this would be the BEST thing ever. Because the workshop has evolved far beyond anything that you can call "hats". And i want that in EVERY Valve game from now on.

I want a Dota 2-engine based top-down RPG that is coop, ftp and has chest drops and cosmetics, and allows others to create monsters, quests and NPCs.

I want Half-Life 3 to be a singleplayer story that can be finished in coop, has a Garys Mod like sandbox built in, and allows modders to create enemies that can be dropped into the original campaign.

It's just that the neighsayers think "hat/chest" is something uninspired and counterproductive, and hurts the game. But it doesn't have to.

To paraphrase Gabe - "we're more interested in making steady money from gaming as a service than we are in making blips of money from games which is why I'm not interested in making single player games". There's nothing wrong with that and the bottom line for every business is making money. What is somewhat funny is that EA's Frank Gibeau said something very similar and rightly got hauled over the coals for it.

The reason that EA would be raked over coals is that Valve created the most unintrusive way to finance a ftp game yet, while EA would hit you with their cash shop over your head until you cry.

 

[Sneds]

The TF2 monetization is pretty intrusive.

 

[Cato the Censor]

The TF2 monetization is pretty intrusive.

In what way?

 

[NervousXtian]

And if Half-Life 3 or L4D3 had the steam workshop possibilites so that designers like Anuxi could create artwork and models for these games, this would be the BEST thing ever. Because the workshop has evolved far beyond anything that you can call "hats". And i want that in EVERY Valve game from now on.

I want a Dota 2-engine based top-down RPG that is coop, ftp and has chest drops and cosmetics, and allows others to create monsters, quests and NPCs.

I want Half-Life 3 to be a singleplayer story that can be finished in coop, has a Garys Mod like sandbox built in, and allows modders to create enemies that can be dropped into the original campaign.

It's just that the neighsayers think "hat/chest" is something uninspired and counterproductive, and hurts the game. But it doesn't have to.



The reason that EA would be raked over coals is that Valve created the most unintrusive way to finance a ftp game yet, while EA would hit you with their cash shop over your head until you cry.

The hat thing is paid for items. That's different from the Workshop.

Also the thought of a co-op Half-Life makes me cringe.

I AM Gordon Freeman, I don't want to be Alyx.. I want to look at her ass, not be her.

 

[enanogrande]

'Enano' was my childhood nickname... The 'grande' part was added later on after I grew up a bit. It's been my username forever, luckily it's not as embarrassing as others who've had the usernames since they were 12 xD

 

[Sneds]

In what way?

Being given crates and getting pop-ups about them. I just ignore them and wil either trade or delete them. It's not a big deal but I'd rather just play the game.

 

[angular graphics]

The hat thing is paid for items. That's different from the Workshop.

Also the thought of a co-op Half-Life makes me cringe.

I AM Gordon Freeman, I don't want to be Alyx.. I want to look at her ass, not be her.

It's one of the most popular mods. So much that Steam hosts it: http://store.steampowered.com/app/17520/?snr=1_7_15__13

 

[NervousXtian]

It's one of the most popular mods. So much that Steam hosts it: http://store.steampowered.com/app/17520/?snr=1_7_15__13

Keep it that way. Let them make a mod after the fact. Adding co-op to a SP game always will have consequences to the SP experience. The way Portal 2 handled it wouldn't/won't work for HL imho.

I bet this is more a young/old divide going on here.. but as I get older I find it harder to synchronize times for any kind of real co-op.. my friends have kids, I have kids.. much easier to jump into something like BF4 where we can leave anytime we need too.

 

[NervousXtian]

'Enano' was my childhood nickname... The 'grande' part was added later on after I grew up a bit. It's been my username forever, luckily it's not as embarrassing as others who've had the usernames since they were 12 xD

Wrong thread.

 

[infiniteheteroskdasticity]

Look, my point here isn't to troll the Valve defense force or whatever. Valve are like any other company. They exist to make money in exchange for a product or (mostly this in Valve's case) a service. They do it very well so good for them. All I'm trying to say is that they seem to get the benefit of the doubt when their CEO says things that would get people at popular punching bags like EA and MSFT rightly excoriated.

Its also kind of hard to argue that Valve's choice of focusing on online cash cows has come at the expense of their games. I'm sure DOTA2 is a very solid MOBA and all that but I don't see too many people rushing to call it game of the year because outside of the crowd that plays that style of game, it has limited appeal. For me (and I'd wager a majority of regular gamers) Valve has made exactly one game worth playing in the past few years (Portal 2). Even EA has done more that that. Another unfavorable comparison is Blizzard. WoW is their cash cow (still) but that hasn't stopped them from releasing financially successful sequels to games like Starcraft and Diablo. Valve appear to be coasting along making money of their services for as little effort as possible.

 

[paperspace]

All I'm trying to say is that they seem to get the benefit of the doubt when their CEO says things that would get people at popular punching bags like EA and MSFT rightly excoriated.

Do you have any example where this is the case?

 

[Archie]

Look, my point here isn't to troll the Valve defense force or whatever. Valve are like any other company. They exist to make money in exchange for a product or (mostly this in Valve's case) a service. They do it very well so good for them. All I'm trying to say is that they seem to get the benefit of the doubt when their CEO says things that would get people at popular punching bags like EA and MSFT rightly excoriated.

Its also kind of hard to argue that Valve's choice of focusing on online cash cows has come at the expense of their games. I'm sure DOTA2 is a very solid MOBA and all that but I don't see too many people rushing to call it game of the year because outside of the crowd that plays that style of game, it has limited appeal. For me (and I'd wager a majority of regular gamers) Valve has made exactly one game worth playing in the past few years (Portal 2). Even EA has done more that that. Another unfavorable comparison is Blizzard. WoW is their cash cow (still) but that hasn't stopped them from releasing financially successful sequels to games like Starcraft and Diablo. Valve appear to be coasting along making money of their services for as little effort as possible.

 

[infiniteheteroskdasticity]

Do you have any example where this is the case?

Erm .. this thread. There seems to be no shortage of people rushing to defend the idea that Valve should not work on anything that isn't a "social multiplayer" (Gabe's words) game. Frank Gibeau at EA said something very similar (I think it was that he would not greenlight a game that didn't have some social/multiplayer component) and he was (correctly) called out for it on GAF and a bunch of other places. Valve can do whatever they want to do to make money. Don't expect everybody to like it just because it's Valve.

 

[angular graphics]

For me (and I'd wager a majority of regular gamers) Valve has made exactly one game worth playing in the past few years (Portal 2). Even EA has done more that that.

You mean an entire publisher owning dozens of studios has done more than one single studio?!!!!!! How can it be??????

Even if they had released HL3 & 4 & 5 & 6, EA would still have had released a greater number of mainstream games than Valve!

 

[Pureauthor]

I'm sure DOTA2 is a very solid MOBA and all that but I don't see too many people rushing to call it game of the year because outside of the crowd that plays that style of game, it has limited appeal.

It is the most popular game on Steam by a good green country mile. What are you talking about.

 

[Shorty11857]

I'm sure DOTA2 is a very solid MOBA and all that but I don't see too many people rushing to call it game of the year because outside of the crowd that plays that style of game, it has limited appeal.

Limited appeal is such a weird way to describe a game with nearly 7 million monthly players. I mean by that standard 99% of games are limited appeal, probably including mainstream games like Portal 2

 

[infiniteheteroskdasticity]

It is the most popular game on Steam by a good green country mile. What are you talking about.

Ok... so why isn't it getting the attention of GTA5, The Last of Us or even Portal 2 back in the day?

 

[Dictator93]

It seems so, but it's just so weird to see. I mean, out of all the major gaming companies out there Valve are easily the most customer-friendly bunch (I don't consider CD Project to be a major gaming company but they are awesome). I'm inclined to believe that most people who are so hostile towards Valve are either hardcore console fans who see them as a threat or hardcore DRM-free fans who don't consider Valve's system acceptable. Otherwise I really have no idea why someone would be so negative towards them.

One could like their publishing and steam space (as I do), and then dislike like 80% of their games (like i do!)

 

[angular graphics]

It is the most popular game on Steam by a good green country mile. What are you talking about.

Dude if people "do not rush to call a game, game of the year" then the "majority of regular gamers" will think it is not a "game worth playing"!

 

[Armaros]

Dude if people "do not rush to call a game, game of the year" then the "majority of regular gamers" will think it is not a "game worth playing"!

Or the game the had the largest prize pool for any single competative gaming tournament.

A game with over 10 years of history behind it, still bein developed by the one person that brought it into he competative limelight.

A game whose predecessor spawned its own genre and now one of the largest up and coming game genre that everyone is trying to get their finger in.

So I heard Everquest 1 was just a good MMO as well.

Also Dota 2 on average has as many people playing it as games like CS:Ghost or BF4 have on all platforms together.

 

[Ikuu]

Ok... so why isn't it getting the attention of GTA5, The Last of Us or even Portal 2 back in the day?

Because it's a game that requires time and effort, something that reviewers don't give to games.

 

[angular graphics]

Portal 2: 1 |OT| thread - 148 pages.
Dota 2: 3 |OT| threads - 829 pages.

Looks like Dota 2 is a game that generates a heck of a lot more discussion on neogaf than Portal 2.

 

[infiniteheteroskdasticity]

It gets more attention than most of those games, it just lacks advertising.

I mean, look at the raw numbers. There are a shitload of people actually playing the game. This abstract idea of advertising/PR-driven "awareness" is only meant to push people to use a product so I don't see how that is more valuable than people using and spending money on a product.

Not that it is even the most popular game in its own genre. League of Legends absolutely is the biggest game on earth; more people who actually play games are aware of and use it than anything else.

That's Fair. I'd say its less of a game and more of a service. If there was a "Gaming Service of the Year" award I'm sure it would merit consideration. And yes I've said from the start it's very successful for Valve. Blizzard did the same thing with WoW. Unlike Valve however, they still found the time and effort to make Starcraft and Diablo sequels and make money off those too (whether you like the actual games themselves or not). My point was that if you like traditional narrative driven games or even solo experiences like Civilization, Valve (the developer not the Steam curator) has done absolutely nothing for you since Portal 2.

 

[Spookie]

Just because someone can make a full-time living from their labour doesn't mean they're not being exploited.

If the people who create content for Valve's marketplace don't feel exploited then okay, but we'll have to agree to disagree about that. Valve take 75% of the money made from the sale of community created items. I'd call that exploitative.

So how do you suppose they pay for the thousands of servers they provide for Dota 2 then?

 

[Sneds]

So how do you suppose they pay for the thousands of servers they provide for Dota 2 then?

Valve make a considerable profit from Dota and TF2. They can afford to give content creators a better deal than 25%

 

[Cato the Censor]

Look, my point here isn't to troll the Valve defense force

Should have stopped reading right there.

Its also kind of hard to argue that Valve's choice of focusing on online cash cows has come at the expense of their games. I'm sure DOTA2 is a very solid MOBA and all that but I don't see too many people rushing to call it game of the year because outside of the crowd that plays that style of game, it has limited appeal.

It is PC game of the year on Gametrailers and has the highest concurrent players on Steam by far.

But with one thing i agree: beyond the people who like the game, there are people who don't like it.

Valve appear to be coasting along making money of their services for as little effort as possible.

I really don't know what to say here. I'm at a loss.

 

[Shorty11857]

That's Fair. I'd say its less of a game and more of a service. If there was a "Gaming Service of the Year" award I'm sure it would merit consideration. And yes I've said from the start it's very successful for Valve. Blizzard did the same thing with WoW. Unlike Valve however, they still found the time and effort to make Starcraft and Diablo sequels and make money off those too (whether you like the actual games themselves or not). My point was that if you like traditional narrative driven games or even solo experiences like Civilization, Valve (the developer not the Steam curator) has done absolutely nothing for you since Portal 2.

Diablo 2 came out in 2000, Diablo 3 came out in 2012
Brood War came out in 1998, Starcraft 2 came out in 2010

If you were not a fan of MMOs Blizzard went 7 years without releasing a game for you, it's been 3 years since Valve made Portal 2.