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[ArkkAngel007]

If they were going to drop the gamepad, it would have been yesterday. Instead, they went in the complete OPPOSITE direction. They're going to create more games that specifically take advantage of the gamepad and its features. You know, what they should have been doing from the fucking start.

So it's not going to happen. Instead, Wii U will limp to 10 million consoles sold by 2017, and that's that. Good luck with that strategy, Nintendo.

2017...I hope that is factoring in the release of a system in Holiday 2016. It's hard to see them bringing anything to the table after the next 2 years with only Ubisoft as their primary 3rd party support at the moment. Them stating Mario Kart U has an example of gamepad use when it's a horn (and map?) isn't that comforting. Nintendoland and ZombiU are the only two games that make a good case for the gamepad in my experience outside of offscreen play, and I don't see many more of those coming down the pipe.

At least Gamecube was getting a little bit of attention around the block mid to late life.

 

[Deleted member 125677]

I guess it depends on what you'd call turn around. I can't imagine that it will sell more than the Gamecube (RIP).

IMO Nintendo still need to support this thing -- and possibly make a cheaper SKU as OP point out at some point -- as hard as they possible can, and hope that active gamers with any kind of relationship with Nintendo franchises choose to pick it up as a secondary system for their nintendo console gaming fix. That's the most they can hope for at this point.

With the mediocre support from third parties I can't imagine a significant amount of people craving a Wii U as their only or even primary gaming device. And the casual market seems to have evaporated into tablet/smartphone heaven. Or they are still content playing Skylanders and just dance or whatever on their old system (wii/ps360).

That being said I love my Wii U for what it is, and I had many of my best gaming experiences last year on it.

 

[Officerrob]

It's not happening. At this point the writing is on the wall, the Wii U will limp along for several more years and be a glorified afterthought in the video game industry. It will be only referenced when big mainline first party Nintendo titles come out or when it's poor sales come out at NPD time

 

[AHA-Lambda]

god you're more hopefull than Iwata :s

 

[And_Gignac]

It's not really difficult to predict. It's dead. WiiU sales have tanked worldwide. No game nor price cuts help sales. No future games will turn it around. There is going to be zero third party support soon. It's dead. I don't know why Nintendo fanboys have such a hard time accepting this.

Mario 3DWorld helped sales A LOT, in America and Japan at least. But there's only so much software Nintendo can release, without third parties there's no hope.

No need to be abrasive and call people fanboys though.

I don't understand this idea they it's "too early" to call it. What other industry or product gets that sort of benefit of the doubt? If a new tablet, a new phone, a new operating system, search engine, any other product in tech is a miserable failure of epic proportions after over one year on the market, would anyone be saying "they can turn it around!"?

The PS3 had an espectacular revival. Totally different situations of course, but there is a precedent.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

I don't understand this idea they it's "too early" to call it. What other industry or product gets that sort of benefit of the doubt? If a new tablet, a new phone, a new operating system, search engine, any other product in tech is a miserable failure of epic proportions after over one year on the market, would anyone be saying "they can turn it around!"?

 

[Mojojo]

I am with you OP!
After evergreen software, Nintendo makes late blooming hardware!

"The Flower that blooms in adversity is the most rare and beautiful of all"

 

[drbond]

I wasn't as shocked as most to find out about the WiiU plans during the investors meeting.

I still believe they will drop the price to $249.99 probably after E3. Hoping they throw in an extra digital download game to sweeten the deal.

I waited until last Black Friday, when retailers started doing the $299.99 price for Zelda WW HD (which I got) and New Mario Bros U bundles for that price PLUS $25 gift cards...getting very close to that $249.99 sweet spot price. If Nintendo doesn't do it, I am guessing retailers will do it themselves (maybe throwing in an extra WiiMote like Best Buy did for black friday).

Still don't know what they were thinking with the black 32GB $349.99 initial price point...let alone the phased-out (now included with Skylanders) 8GB version $299.99 basic model. Truly bizarre especially since a full retail game along with updates from the eShop takes up that entire hard drive up of the basic model (Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate WiiU for example takes about 6.2 gigs or so), making you spend even more money anyway to buy an external USB hard drive.

I'm still holding out for Nintendo's WiiU OS/interface team to get a clue and let me send messages to people via friends list. Its really silly having to text a friend on my real-life phone to let them know I want to play a specified game online with them on WiiU. I guess you can get around this by having your Miiverse status message set to display the message, but that's pretty silly.

It's already bad I have to be aware of the blue blinking lights on my controller to make me aware friends are online, without the need for the game itself to have some kind of interface that does that (like the WiiU version of Ghosts).

I'm not sure if they ever let you send messages to friends, outside the initial friend request ("My name is XXXX, please add me to your friends list"). Still paranoid about little kids getting messages from strangers? I dunno.

 

[IncandescentPrecept]

First party and indie titles is really all the system has ever needed honestly.

Well, it's clear it's not what gamers want in general.

 

[Nikodemos]

I was the biggest defender of Nintendo keeping the GamePad, but no one cares about it. Drop it, Nintendo. Drop it like it's hot.

Why would they? It's not like the system's appeal increases in any significant way without it (if anything, it kinda drops, due to losing a differentiator). Besides, they already have millions of the things; what are they going to do, bury them in an unmarked desert grave right next ET?

There isn't a solution to this. And the only palliative remedy is something Iwata is refusing to consider, stubborn old mule that he is. He's hanging on to the whole "Premium Nintendo experience" thing like a cat to drapes. A price drop could help them shift some of that considerable inventory they're currently warehousing. While it won't bring any (more) money to Nintendo, it would help (even a bit) stabilise mindshare (a concept, however, which seems somewhat alien to Nintendo leadership). They really need that $199 super value bundle (the Deluxe pack plus the extended battery, a Pro controller and an eShop code for a choice among select titles). It will face its competitors' last-gen former glories, and that's unfortunate, but at least it still is a better proposition in absolute terms than the current $299.

As for the GamePad, my (hastily concocted) idea is to make it an integral part of the Wii U gaming experience. That can be achieved in one way alone: drop off-tv play (basically, pull a 2DS). Have the pad's screen display game-critical information. At the same time, make GamePad-reliant games slower-paced. Due to the crappy ergonomics (they really should have consulted some automobile technology historians before coming up with this thing), you need to keep focus-shift caused fatigue to a minimum, and high-tempo games would only exacerbate it.

 

[Neff]

Most failed systems were front loaded.

That's what I'm saying. GC's first year had Mario Sunshine, Melee, Wind Waker, Metroid Prime, REmake, Pikmin, RE0, and Luigi's Mansion. From 2003 - 2005 it had Echoes, MK Double Dash, F-Zero GX, Viewtiful Joe, Killer7 and RE4. The rest was forgettable fluff, for the rest of its life. Wii U's second year of software is demonstrably superior to its first, which is why I'm saying that we haven't really seen what it can do yet.

 

[V_Arnold]

Take emotion out of it. If it was your money on the line for Zelda would you really take what may be 50 million dollars in dev costs and strategically put it on a dying system with a crappy tie ratio or would you save it as a launch title for the next machine you actually have faith in and want to sell real numbers of? A launch Zelda game is far more important than a fan service on a dead machine good will gesture. Also doing the split release doesn't force customers into your new ecosystem.

You do not seem to understand that this is not EA or Activision we are talking about. This is not about "saving your money" (especially not when even a 1 mill Zelda sales would get most of a 30-40 mill budget back), this is about providing the most loyal of your fanbase the game that you already promised AND for which you are already way in development.

This is not EA who can just screw its fanbase over because by the time the next Battlefield comes, hype and trailers will swoon over a different portion of the audience as well. Stop thinking in short-term scared "I want the most return out of my investment" investor logic that has no place in platformholder talk. You need to finish Zelda on Wii U in order to make your fans continue having faith in your new consoles - having faith that regardless of how it sels, it will have good games on it from Nintendo itself.

 

[ChrisMahoney]

Do we have estimates on how much the game pad costs to manufacturer? That resistive, lowres screen can't be that much to mass produce. I think Nintendo would rather take a $20 hit than lose the gamepad.

 

[Gaiaknight]

I dont think nintendo will be able to get good sales out of the system best they can hope for is gamecube numbers. On the plus side though at least there first party titles are still selling im so happy Super mario 3d world sold over a million units as that leaves some hope that mario kart and super smash bros will sell well over time.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

That's what I'm saying. GC's first year had Mario Sunshine, Melee, Wind Waker, Metroid Prime, REmake, Pikmin, RE0, and Luigi's Mansion. From 2003 - 2005 it had Echoes, MK Double Dash, F-Zero GX, Viewtiful Joe, Killer7 and RE4. The rest was forgettable fluff, for the rest of its life. Wii U's second year of software is demonstrably superior to its first, which is why I'm saying that we haven't really seen what it can do yet.

But is the reason that Wii U hasn't had as much software because Nintendo is holding back? Or is it just poor planning and a struggle to get the hang of hd development? I mean, we are already in a critical year 2 and Nintendo had a whopping TWO games set for the entire first half of the year. It's more likely the Wii U will see the same kind of struggles in its 2nd and 3rd years and beyond as the GC and N64 before it (lack of software, waning 3rd party support, delays and droughts) only without the benefit of the relatively strong starts those systems had.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Comparisons to Dreamcast and Gamecube are misleading, as they more or less shot their bolt software-wise in the first year, and fizzled out shortly after. Wii U may do the same after delivering its best, but coroner's reports are premature, and writing it off would be foolish.

I don't see how writing off a massive failure of a console is foolish. I just don't see how you can honestly hold that opinion unless you are blinded by brand loyalty.

Wii U is doing worse than the tragic failure the Gamecube. Worse. Third parties have dropped all support essentially. There is no sales momentum. Display space at retailers is at the bare minimum.

How you can genuinely tell me that it is foolish to consider it dead is astounding. You may disagree, but man, you need to face reality and admit that it is perfectly reasonable to dismiss it from the perspective of others.

 

[SenatorBot]

I think with the latest investor's meeting, Nintendo's reality of the Wii U situation hit them and they really can't do anything with it like a hot potato.

Wii U is already losing them a lot of money and doing drastic changes such as dropping the gamepad or lowering the price will only bring them into the red faster. At this point, Nintendo realizes that there's nothing they can do to change the Wii U's fate and is resigned to keep losses as minimal as possible while they plan their QoL third pillar, maximize profits from the 3DS and work on unifying their three pillars for the next generation. What Nintendo can do now is to make the Wii U's remaining days a memorable one.

 

[Maneauleau]

While, for now, Wii U is a commercial flop, it is a central piece in Nintendo's future, marking a new era for them and their fans. In a sense, this commercial flop is good for them (and their fans) since it allows them to experiment much more than if it was a success and also to put the changes in motion.

That investor meeting was huge for Nintendo. They are trying to step up to a Valve or Apple level in terms of digital environment and functionalities. Of course they won't get there easily and probably never will but still that's their aim: proper account system and rewarding faithful customers.

You have to realise that not only it's their first HD console, it's also the one where they are building up their network along with an account system. All that while introducing, and not giving up, on the asymetric gameplay and with incoming new pricing methods in the way they sale games.

Wii U should have been called Revolution.

 

[El Sabroso]

Nintendo needs a game focused on Online play, they could be taking Metroid or Star Fox franchise to make an awesome Shooter.

As of bundles, sku without Gamepad will not make any difference, but i'm with you with the idea of MK8 and Smash bros. bundles including a WiiU Pro controller, but as my idea is not without Gamepad, that will return to 350 usd price tag, not sur if Ninty can keep a bundle like this at 300 usd.

The idea of one game selling the console is not that out, but I don't think Smash Bros. gonna be that because the existence of the 3DS version, WiiU version needs to bring stronger Online capabilities than 3DS version to make Smash that game that sells more WiiU consoles.

Right now I respect the move of having DS library on WiiU, but they will need really cheap prices so it can appeal more than the 3DS backwards compatibility of running physical DS games.

Another oportunity is the N64 VC and more GC HD remixes.

Really WiiU has a lot of potential even when it is not a powerful console like their competitors, but they rely on strong software to do it.

 

[cyberheater]

Mario 3DWorld helped sales A LOT.

You're delusional. Knack outsold Mario3D World. There was a small blip in sales. Nothing else.

 

[air jordans for dogs]

I am with you OP!
After evergreen software, Nintendo makes late blooming hardware!

"The Flower that blooms in adversity is the most rare and beautiful of all"

Not even Mulan can save the wii u

 

[Log4Girlz]

You're delusional. Knack outsold Mario3D World. There was a small blip in sales. Nothing else.

Nintendo was only willing to admit sales of a little over a million. That's horrible.

 

[V_Arnold]

You're delusional. Knack outsold Mario3D World. There was a small blip in sales. Nothing else.

Did you see the legs of 3D World in Japan? I do not think you did.

Nintendo was only willing to admit sales of a little over a million. That's horrible.

This is one bit land once more, where something is either horrible or best thing ever? 1 million for a mainline 3D Mario released on the vastly more succesful Wii would be horrible, but we are talking about a machine here that did not even reach 5 mil global sales yet. It is not roses and blowjobs, fair enough, but it is not horrible.

 

[Timmy00]

You're delusional. Knack outsold Mario3D World. There was a small blip in sales. Nothing else.

Uh I thought knack only outsold 3D world in the UK and 3D world did better everywhere else.

Edit- Yeah, I'm pretty sure 3D world outsold knack worldwide so... You really shouldn't be calling people delusional and throwing the fanboy word around.

 

[blankempathy]

Uh I thought knack only outsold 3D world in the UK and 3D world did better everywhere else.

Thats what they dont want you to know. Also helps that the ps4 was selling incredibly well that buying knack was an after thought to most people as long as they got the ps4 the game was bundled with.

 

[Log4Girlz]

This is one bit land once more, where something is either horrible or best thing ever? 1 million for a mainline 3D Mario released on the vastly more succesful Wii would be horrible, but we are talking about a machine here that did not even reach 5 mil global sales yet. It is not roses and blowjobs, fair enough, but it is not horrible.

I suppose if the Wii 3 sells only like 10 copies and the 3D Mario released on it sold 9 copies for a 90% attach ratio then that's not horrible in your book.

 

[ah_hia]

It's probably too late for the Wii U sadly. The best they can hope with is have it be profitable for them and then learn from it in their next console. I still love my Wii U though and I haven't bought a ps4 or xb1 yet as their games don't interest me at the moment.

 

[Evenflow]

Nintendo was only willing to admit sales of a little over a million. That's horrible.

1.9 million actually by the end of Dec according to Nintendo. That's what 38 days? On a system with an Install base of 5.6 million(or less if that figure is shipped)? Not bad.

This Knack outsold Mario, and Mario sold like crap business needs to stop, it's really not based in reality even if Mario didn't set the charts on fire.. and is making this forum rather annoying to read. Dec NPD thread had Mario outselling Knack 3 to 1 LTD, and Mario actually outsold all other Next gen exclusives in that NPD thread so...

 

[DryvBy]

The WiiU is a waste of money, sorry. I'd spend maybe $100 on it at this point. No reason to buy it when you can clearly see it's dead. It's way too expensive for the hardware. No one asked for a stupid screen controller. They need to get rid of the gimmicky stuff and stick with what works: a solid console with great online/social stuff.

 

[Gaiaknight]

You're delusional. Knack outsold Mario3D World. There was a small blip in sales. Nothing else.

has knack broken a million units yet?

 

[V_Arnold]

I suppose if the Wii 3 sells only like 10 copies and the 3D Mario released on it sold 9 copies for a 90% attach ratio then that's not horrible in your book.

I suppose we could go into batshit crazy speculations about what happens when a console sells 10 copies and what it does make it!

Attach ratios are not particularly useful in non-standard situations where either the system is unhealthy or when the game has quality issues. 3D World does not have quality issues, both its sales and its attach rate was good for Japan, while performing worse in other regions. That is already a more insightful assertion than stating "wowzor, Knack outsold 3D World, the sales are horrible". But it all depends whether we want to create drama or have a talk about sales.

 

[ElectricKaibutsu]

Why would they? It's not like the system's appeal increases in any significant way without it (if anything, it kinda drops, due to losing a differentiator). Besides, they already have millions of the things; what are they going to do, bury them in an unmarked desert grave right next ET?

There isn't a solution to this. And the only palliative remedy is something Iwata is refusing to consider, stubborn old mule that he is. He's hanging on to the whole "Premium Nintendo experience" thing like a cat to drapes. A price drop could help them shift some of that considerable inventory they're currently warehousing. While it won't bring any (more) money to Nintendo, it would help (even a bit) stabilise mindshare (a concept, however, which seems somewhat alien to Nintendo leadership). They really need that $199 super value bundle (the Deluxe pack plus the extended battery, a Pro controller and an eShop code for a choice among select titles). It will face its competitors' last-gen former glories, and that's unfortunate, but at least it still is a better proposition in absolute terms than the current $299.

As for the GamePad, my (hastily concocted) idea is to make it an integral part of the Wii U gaming experience. That can be achieved in one way alone: drop off-tv play (basically, pull a 2DS). Have the pad's screen display game-critical information. At the same time, make GamePad-reliant games slower-paced. Due to the crappy ergonomics (they really should have consulted some automobile technology historians before coming up with this thing), you need to keep focus-shift caused fatigue to a minimum, and high-tempo games would only exacerbate it.

I'd have to disagree with you. From reading NeoGAF it seems like Off TV play is the only gamepad feature people care about (that certainly applies to me). If I read your post a year ago I would have agreed, but Nintendo hasn't yet created anything that uses the pad in any compelling way, which makes me think they don't have any ideas. They're stuck between not wanting to create new IPs but wanting to sell people on the gamepad. So they either shoehorn in gamepad features where people don't want them, or the gamepad plays a minor supporting role that can often be disabled and replaced with the pro controller. Again this is anecdotal, but most people seem to prefer the less gimmicky option with the bonus of off-TV play.

Basically, it's too late to make the gamepad truly integral. They should have done that a year ago.

I agree with you about the idiocy of the "premium Nintendo experience" though. If they want to charge a lot for their products, they better be top of the line. If they want to keep releasing comparatively weak systems, which is fine with me, they have to keep that price low.

 

[Log4Girlz]

1.9 million actually by the end of Dec according to Nintendo.

Actually, tha'ts news to me. Last I checked they only admitted to a little over a million during their financial meeting. Did they release more information?

 

[Mysterious]

Actually, tha'ts news to me. Last I checked they only admitted to a little over a million during their financial meeting. Did they release more information?

Yes. 1.9M units shipped. ~4M units shipped for Mario Bros. U, with ~5M units shipped for the hardware itself.

 

[Evenflow]

Actually, tha'ts news to me. Last I checked they only admitted to a little over a million during their financial meeting. Did they release more information?

Yes it was in one of the supplemental slides, with all the other million sellers

 

[Log4Girlz]

Yes it was in one of the supplemental slides, with all the other million sellers

Shipped or sold?

 

[spekkeh]

What's the point of this thread? Iwata has officially come out to say they are going to stress the possibilities of the gamepad more in the coming year. They're not going to drop it. Seems like thread 250132549 on something something Nintendo that's away from the company's policy, only this time even more so.

 

[Wolves Evolve]

I love the Wii U too, but the bad news is just beginning.

Bad News
- Third parties will pull out - not incrementally but heavily
- Nintendo will be releasing games that don't use the Wii U Pad
- Decreased sales will begin the vicious cycle of no shelf space > no sales > no shelf space
- 'Non-wearable' is in my opinion, the dumbest high-concept strategy statement I've heard in my years, and I was around for the GBA SP Tribal Edition statements

Good News
- Nintendo will definitely be fucking back at E3
- They will also go crazy on interesting QOL products which are always fun if not my thing
- They will license out their characters to good people

 

[Dalibor_San]

At this point, $199 won't do the trick. It's important to remember that in every store that sells the Wii U, the store (more than likely) also sells the PS3 and Xbox 360. The PS3 and Xbox 360 are retailing at that $199 price point, and both of those consoles have a huge software library of popular titles that retail for as little as $9.99. With that in mind, the Wii U will have to retail for <$149 in order to generate consumer interest.

Are Nintendo willing to take a big loss on the console for the sake of market share? Based on what Iwata has been saying, the answer looks like a firm 'no'.

Furthermore, while Mario Kart and Smash Brothers are important properties for Nintendo, neither of those titles have the console-moving power of a Wii Sports or Wii Fit. In other words, while those games will surely cause a small bump in sales, the games aren't going to be enough to transform the Wii U into a viable platform for content. Software won't do the trick.

Lastly, while Mario Kart Wii has sold over 27 million copies, so did New Super Mario Bros on the Wii. New Super Mario Bros on the Wii U has sold less than 5 million copies to date. Looking at the numbers, it's clear that the next Mario Kart will be a significant failure in sales in comparison to Mario Kart on Wii.

This got me thinking, is there a higher chance now for Nintendo software to drop in price? or drop faster then before?

I mean I remember Wii Games sitting at near launch prices for years,Wii U games are pretty expensive, especially here in Australia, same goes for 3DS games.

Wii U software Avg price in Australia: $74-$79
3DS software Avg price in Australia: $59-64(Mario Kart and Fire Emblem are $64....)
Wii U Premium still sitting at $428, Wii U Basic is $348 and sometimes when a rare sale happens it hits $248.(very rare and only Basic seems to get a sale)

I said I wouldn't buy a Wii U until a price-drop, however if games drop in price maybe I'll bite the bullet as I have credit at EB games.

There is no hope for the Wii U, however I can see a slight improvement however if the company plays it smart.

 

[And_Gignac]

You're delusional. Knack outsold Mario3D World. There was a small blip in sales. Nothing else.

Knack bombed everywhere, it only had the luck of not bombing as hard as 3dw did in the UK.

M3DW helped the Wii U to have an almost good Christmas in Japan, and I'm mostly sure the growth YOY in the States was thanks to 3Dworld push.

So no, I'm not delusional, you are misinformed.

 

[Graphics Horse]

They've practically written it off themselves, leaving a few nice hopeful words about Miyamoto's long awaited NFC game improving things and some baffling talk about how games featuring off screen play will be a system selling feature.

 

[Bjoern the Smexy]

As much as I love Nintendo (which is to say A LOT!) I sadly think that the Wii U will be a second GameCube. Which is not to say that the GameCube sold badly, but it sucks nontheless.

I will enjoy the first party output from Nintendo and its partners, I will enjoy most of the 3rd party output on it and I will enjoy the Virtual Console titles, of which I bought more than I did on the Wii already.
But without proper 3rd party support the console will simply crawl along until it gets its next game. Like the Wii did in its last 2 years or so, where there were huge gaps between awesome games.

This year we get Smash Bros, Bayonetta 2 and X (if the release schedule is to be believed), but when are they coming out?
I guess Smash will come out in May at the earliest, Bayonetta sometime in Fall and X (if it releases this year) will not come out before the holiday season (I guess mid-December at the earliest). Before that we have DKCR:TF and Mario Kart 8, both of which come out within one month from each other iirc (DKC in Feb, MK8 in March I think?).

This is all well and good, but gamers need MORE. And this "MORE" is handled through 3rd parties. Of which there are not enough on the Wii U. Capcom gives us Monster Hunter and maybe a Resident Evil spinoff/port, Tecmo-Koei gives us Hyrule Warriors and maybe/hopefully some Ninja Gaiden and Fatal Frame at best. You can count Dead or Alive right out. Then, where's the rest? I can only hope that P* will support the Wii U with at least some multiplatform titles after Bayo2, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Metal Gear Solid V, while it should be possible on Wii U, won't be released on it. Why? Because it wouldn't be profitable. Why? Because Nintendo.

This is the kind of thing that I had to realize over the last year. I love Nintendo. My first console I played with was the NES. The first game I played was Super Mario Bros. I got my first GameBoy on my 6th birthday, which was over 21 years ago. In the times of NES, GB and SNES, Nintendo was all the rage. They had awesome hardware and SUPERB 3rd party support (although during the NES days most of it was because of pretty evil licensing contracts).
When the PlayStation arrived I still clinged onto my N64, because it had Mario and Banjo-Kazooie and Goldeneye and Perfect Dark...all of which were 1st party titles back then. The only 3rd Party releases I owned back then (and still own today) are...Star Wars Shadows of the Empire and Tony Hawk's Pro Skater. That's pretty much it. Nintendo had the power back then to run on its own because it had an awesome amount of in-house devs (including Rare) with a huge variety of games that covered pretty much every genre available.
At the end of the N64 cycle, shortly before the PS2 hit the markets and the Dreamcast had long been released, I already realized how much more effort 3rd parties put into developing games for the PlayStation. It was cheaper (CDs vs. cartridges), less restrictive in terms of licensing, easier to program for (a silent 'Hello' to N64's 4KB of VRAM).

This already broke the GameCube's neck from the beginning. But the GameCube had probably the single most awesome launch lineup ever (at least here in Europe with over 20 titles available from the start) and it had hardware more powerful than the PS2 (although less powerful than Xbox) which always seemed to be a big plus for games developers.
It actually looked like Nintendo could place themselves in 2nd place because developers said at the time that the Xbox was even more complicated to program for (for console only developers at the time at least), but it still happened that the Xbox got into 2nd place shortly before the end of that generation.
The GameCube was neglected by both Nintendo and 3rd parties right after the Wii launched.

The Wii, while hugely successful, had two problems:
The Wiimote (it actually was pretty fun using it at the start but it would've been better if waggle wasn't shoehorned into everything. Also it had a lack of buttons)
And it's hardware.
Two GameCubes duct taped together. I was really angry at people using this sentence, because what do they know, right? Well, they weren't that far off, though. I was dissapointed that I didn't get to play games like Assassin's Creed or BioShock on the Wii. Instead we got more kid-friendly games and shovelware than I had ever seen on any console before.
Once again it was mostly Nintendo that saved the console all by itself, by giving us games like Super Mario Galaxy, Xenoblade and Metroid Prime 3. It helped that Nintendo marketed the console EXACTLY right. It was a family-oriented console for everyone and it showed. Over 100 million consoles speak for themselves, I guess. Still, the console wasn't that much superior to the original Xbox in terms of hardware power.

And here's where we are now. The Wii U.
I actually really like the console. It has a lot of hardware potential. But it will probably ever only get used by Nintendo and their in-house devs and, as I like to call them, "2nd parties". 3rd parties don't care about the console because it doesn't sell, because it doesn't have the power the Xbox One or PS4 have, because support sucks, because it's hard to program for. Which is a shame.
There is one mistake Nintendo made for the last 4 generations (Wii U included):
Hardware. Even if it was in the same league as its competitors (GameCube, N64) or not (Wii, Wii U), it always seemed that it was "hard to program for". It's what I heard 18 years in a row, from the N64 to the Wii U.
I know, especially since the Wii and DS (and before that with all the GameBoy variations and upgrades) Nintendo puts a lot of effort in backwards compatibility and they gain it by using upgraded versions of the same hardware as their predecessors. But maybe Nintendo should simply skip backwards compatibility ONCE (which is with Wii U's successor) to build completely new hardware from the ground up, based on what the competition is using (which most of the is based on PC hardware), so they can once again play in the same league.

The next Nintendo console needs to be strong. Stronger than the PS4 is now. Make it expensive. Not more expensive than the competition, though. Just make it appealing to 3rd party devs. Get the right hardware. Get the right hardware support. You can still be "family-friendly", but don't put that pussy on a pedestal for once. It's okay, you can still give us Mario and Zelda and Pikmin and Pokémon, and we will buy them and enjoy them, but if I could have a console that play Mario, Zelda, Call of Duty, Metal Gear, Pikmin, Resident Evil, Smash Bros., Mass Effect, Metroid, Assassin's Creed, Minecraft, Titanfall, Battlefield, Trine, Pokémon, Mighty Switch Force and Max Payne...why should I bother with another one? Aim for a console where EVERYTHING can be played on, regardless of age, gender or family status. Aim for a console everyone wants to buy because it's got the power to play what everyone wants to play. Aim for the Marios and Pikmin as well as the Call of Duties and Titanfalls. Maybe throw in one of your own more mature IPs like Eternal Darkness. Create a new one. Revive Project H.A.M.M.E.R.. Listen to the fans.

Just do something right for once, Nintendo.



That said, I'm still part of the problem. I'm a Nintendo fanboy at heart, though open to both PlayStation and Xbox and I will purchase a PS4 at some point in the future.
I consider the Wii U better than either the PS4 or the Xbox One at the moment because there's nothing for me on either of those two consoles right now (not before MGSV and Uncharted 4 at least), whereas I already have something like 12+ retail games and several download titles for the Wii U (VC games included).
But 3rd party games will be released on those consoles. The Wii U on the other hand will suffer a lack of 3rd party support and has to survive on 1st party titles once again.

I'm a sucker for Nintendo consoles and will probably buy each of their upcoming home consoles on launch day. Even if they fuck up once again. That doesn't mean I won't be dissapointed. Which I am right now. Very much so.


EDIT: HOW DID I WRITE SO MUCH HOLY CRAP

 

[Evenflow]

Shipped or sold?

Actually I'm not sure how Nintendo handles these financial release statements, I know it includes digital sales

here if you want to check it out: http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2014/140130e.pdf

 

[Nikodemos]

I'd have to disagree with you. From reading NeoGAF it seems like Off TV play is the only gamepad feature people care about (that certainly applies to me). If I read your post a year ago I would have agreed, but Nintendo hasn't yet created anything that uses the pad in any compelling way, which makes me think they don't have any ideas. They're stuck between not wanting to create new IPs but wanting to sell people on the gamepad. So they either shoehorn in gamepad features where people don't want them, or the gamepad plays a minor supporting role that can often be disabled and replaced with the pro controller. Again this is anecdotal, but most people seem to prefer the less gimmicky option with the bonus of off-TV play.

It's a catch-22 caused by shoehorning two different and antithetical requirements into a single device. Unsurprisingly, they eventually broke down and chose the quicker/easier of those. Unfortunately, that was the worse choice of the two for the consumer and for the Wii U's long-term appeal. Off-TV play is, ultimately, unimpressive. And easily imitatable: see Sony with the Vita (which also happens to work outside the house, though quality is highly dependent on WiFi networks). Whereas employing the Pad as an integrated game information source and control scheme is considerably more difficult to copycat (and, at any rate, Nintendo has conceptual initiative) since you have to approach it on a per-game basis. Which is, however, complicated and time-consuming, also creativity dependent.

EDIT:

But the gamepad was the reason the console's under-powered, right? Losing the gamepad would make it just an under-powered console with no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

This man gets it.

 

[E-Cat]

But the gamepad was the reason the console's under-powered, right? Losing the gamepad would make it just an under-powered console with no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

 

[Always-honest]

You really have to like the first party Nintendo games to buy one i think.
It's why i bought the WiiU. I would never buy a multiplat on WiiU. And i'm more than happy with my WiiU. I think the games i've played are of an incredible quality and anyone who thinks otherwise probably either doesn't like those games or doesn't want to be seen playing the, for reasons i will never understand. Also, they look good on a HD screen. It's not like with the Wii, where evrything truely looked like ass playing on a HD screen.

I do understand that nobody will buy a WiiU as a one and only console though (unless Nintendo games are the ONLY games you play). There just aren't enough games and the multiplats just aren't on the same quality as on PS4 or XboxOne and sometimes even PS3 and 360 (though most have slight improvemenst over those versions).
I also wish they made the WiiU a bit more powerful. They cheaped out just a bit too much to make it futureproof and i think they would have made more profit on the long run if they would have added slightly more expensive components that would become cheap components in the following years. It's almost like they went trough a lot of trouble to find the most outdated components possible.

I love the gamepad. I think it's a great and comfortable controller and i do use the offscreen functionality every now and then. But there is no game that realy justifies it's exsistence right now. So right now, they could just as well have spend their money on a more powerful console with a normal dual analog controller. Actually, i think that would have sold much more hardware and software.

I love Nintendo games and i love the fact that Nintendo takes chances. On the otherhand, i don't know any other company that is soooo thickheaded and sometimes borderline arrogant as Nintendo.

I hope the WiiU will become a succes in the end but they will have to almsot reinvent themselves for that to happen.
And i hope their next console will be more up to date.

 

[ecosse_011172]

As much as I love Nintendo (which is to say A LOT!) I sadly think that the Wii U will be a second GameCube. Which is not to say that the GameCube sold badly, but it sucks nontheless.

I will enjoy the first party output from Nintendo and its partners, I will enjoy most of the 3rd party output on it and I will enjoy the Virtual Console titles, of which I bought more than I did on the Wii already.
But without proper 3rd party support the console will simply crawl along until it gets its next game. Like the Wii did in its last 2 years or so, where there were huge gaps between awesome games.

This year we get Smash Bros, Bayonetta 2 and X (if the release schedule is to be believed), but when are they coming out?
I guess Smash will come out in May at the earliest, Bayonetta sometime in Fall and X (if it releases this year) will not come out before the holiday season (I guess mid-December at the earliest). Before that we have DKCR:TF and Mario Kart 8, both of which come out within one month from each other iirc (DKC in Feb, MK8 in March I think?).

This is all well and good, but gamers need MORE. And this "MORE" is handled through 3rd parties. Of which there are not enough on the Wii U. Capcom gives us Monster Hunter and maybe a Resident Evil spinoff/port, Tecmo-Koei gives us Hyrule Warriors and maybe/hopefully some Ninja Gaiden and Fatal Frame at best. You can count Dead or Alive right out. Then, where's the rest? I can only hope that P* will support the Wii U with at least some multiplatform titles after Bayo2, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Metal Gear Solid V, while it should be possible on Wii U, won't be released on it. Why? Because it wouldn't be profitable. Why? Because Nintendo.

This is the kind of thing that I had to realize over the last year. I love Nintendo. My first console I played with was the NES. The first game I played was Super Mario Bros. I got my first GameBoy on my 6th birthday, which was over 21 years ago. In the times of NES, GB and SNES, Nintendo was all the rage. They had awesome hardware and SUPERB 3rd party support (although during the NES days most of it was because of pretty evil licensing contracts).
When the PlayStation arrived I still clinged onto my N64, because it had Mario and Banjo-Kazooie and Goldeneye and Perfect Dark...all of which were 1st party titles back then. The only 3rd Party releases I owned back then (and still own today) are...Star Wars Shadows of the Empire and Tony Hawk's Pro Skater. That's pretty much it. Nintendo had the power back then to run on its own because it had an awesome amount of in-house devs (including Rare) with a huge variety of games that covered pretty much every genre available.
At the end of the N64 cycle, shortly before the PS2 hit the markets and the Dreamcast had long been released, I already realized how much more effort 3rd parties put into developing games for the PlayStation. It was cheaper (CDs vs. cartridges), less restrictive in terms of licensing, easier to program for (a silent 'Hello' to N64's 4KB of VRAM).

This already broke the GameCube's neck from the beginning. But the GameCube had probably the single most awesome launch lineup ever (at least here in Europe with over 20 titles available from the start) and it had hardware more powerful than the PS2 (although less powerful than Xbox) which always seemed to be a big plus for games developers.
It actually looked like Nintendo could place themselves in 2nd place because developers said at the time that the Xbox was even more complicated to program for (for console only developers at the time at least), but it still happened that the Xbox got into 2nd place shortly before the end of that generation.
The GameCube was neglected by both Nintendo and 3rd parties right after the Wii launched.

The Wii, while hugely successful, had two problems:
The Wiimote (it actually was pretty fun using it at the start but it would've been better if waggle wasn't shoehorned into everything. Also it had a lack of buttons)
And it's hardware.
Two GameCubes duct taped together. I was really angry at people using this sentence, because what do they know, right? Well, they weren't that far off, though. I was dissapointed that I didn't get to play games like Assassin's Creed or BioShock on the Wii. Instead we got more kid-friendly games and shovelware than I had ever seen on any console before.
Once again it was mostly Nintendo that saved the console all by itself, by giving us games like Super Mario Galaxy, Xenoblade and Metroid Prime 3. It helped that Nintendo marketed the console EXACTLY right. It was a family-oriented console for everyone and it showed. Over 100 million consoles speak for themselves, I guess. Still, the console wasn't that much superior to the original Xbox in terms of hardware power.

And here's where we are now. The Wii U.
I actually really like the console. It has a lot of hardware potential. But it will probably ever only get used by Nintendo and their in-house devs and, as I like to call them, "2nd parties". 3rd parties don't care about the console because it doesn't sell, because it doesn't have the power the Xbox One or PS4 have, because support sucks, because it's hard to program for. Which is a shame.
There is one mistake Nintendo made for the last 4 generations (Wii U included):
Hardware. Even if it was in the same league as its competitors (GameCube, N64) or not (Wii, Wii U), it always seemed that it was "hard to program for". It's what I heard 18 years in a row, from the N64 to the Wii U.
I know, especially since the Wii and DS (and before that with all the GameBoy variations and upgrades) Nintendo puts a lot of effort in backwards compatibility and they gain it by using upgraded versions of the same hardware as their predecessors. But maybe Nintendo should simply skip backwards compatibility ONCE (which is with Wii U's successor) to build completely new hardware from the ground up, based on what the competition is using (which most of the is based on PC hardware), so they can once again play in the same league.

The next Nintendo console needs to be strong. Stronger than the PS4 is now. Make it expensive. Not more expensive than the competition, though. Just make it appealing to 3rd party devs. Get the right hardware. Get the right hardware support. You can still be "family-friendly", but don't put that pussy on a pedestal for once. It's okay, you can still give us Mario and Zelda and Pikmin and Pokémon, and we will buy them and enjoy them, but if I could have a console that play Mario, Zelda, Call of Duty, Metal Gear, Pikmin, Resident Evil, Smash Bros., Mass Effect, Metroid, Assassin's Creed, Minecraft, Titanfall, Battlefield, Trine, Pokémon, Mighty Switch Force and Max Payne...why should I bother with another one? Aim for a console where EVERYTHING can be played on, regardless of age, gender or family status. Aim for a console everyone wants to buy because it's got the power to play what everyone wants to play. Aim for the Marios and Pikmin as well as the Call of Duties and Titanfalls. Maybe throw in one of your own more mature IPs like Eternal Darkness. Create a new one. Revive Project H.A.M.M.E.R.. Listen to the fans.

Just do something right for once, Nintendo.



That said, I'm still part of the problem. I'm a Nintendo fanboy at heart, though open to both PlayStation and Xbox and I will purchase a PS4 at some point in the future.
I consider the Wii U better than either the PS4 or the Xbox One at the moment because there's nothing for me on either of those two consoles right now (not before MGSV and Uncharted 4 at least), whereas I already have something like 12+ retail games and several download titles for the Wii U (VC games included).
But 3rd party games will be released on those consoles. The Wii U on the other hand will suffer a lack of 3rd party support and has to survive on 1st party titles once again.

I'm a sucker for Nintendo consoles and will probably buy each of their upcoming home consoles on launch day. Even if they fuck up once again. That doesn't mean I won't be dissapointed. Which I am right now. Very much so.


EDIT: HOW DID I WRITE SO MUCH HOLY CRAP

Sadly what you suggest will never happen unless there are massive changes in management at Nintendo. Iwata is obsessed with the idea that WE MUST NOT DO WHAT OUR COMPETITORS DO, even if it's the best thing for the consumer. This stubborn, inflexible mentality will be their downfall.

Their software should be what makes them different, not making the console underpowered and adding a gimmick.
/Sighs

 

[GamerJM]

Okay, after Nintendo's investor's meeting and thinking about some things, I've come to the conclusion that the Wii U is technically salvageable.....but it's not really worth the effort to salvage it. Yeah, Nintendo could drop the Gamepad, they could spend more money to get Western third-party devs to develop for it, they could do a huge advertising campaign, even rebrand all of Nintendo as a company. But here's the question: Is it worth it? I don't think it is. All of that stuff is a gamble and they'd be spending a ton of money trying to turn something around that's already pretty far gone in the eyes of the mainstream public. Which is why I think it's obvious at this point that Nintendo's goal is to ride out the Wii U. Have it flop and be the laughingstock of the gaming industry for a few years while they invest a bunch of money into QoL and their next-gen products.

Keep in mind that I'm saying this as someone who loves the Wii U personally as a console. I just can't see it succeeding from a business perspective anymore than it is.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Actually I'm not sure how Nintendo handles these financial release statements, I know it includes digital sales

here if you want to check it out: http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2014/140130e.pdf

Without sell-through numbers it may be that they over-shipped the game. Though, I don't think that should be the case. I'd imagine it will sell at least as well as the 2D Mario released. Which, ultimately, is not very well considering the pedigree. Though less terrible than I thought.

I mean, we can talk all we want about how great a tie-ratio it is on a tiny user-base...but the point of these games is to shift systems.

 

[liger05]

Okay, after Nintendo's investor's meeting and thinking about some things, I've come to the conclusion that the Wii U is technically salvageable.....but it's not really worth the effort to salvage it. Yeah, Nintendo could drop the Gamepad, they could spend more money to get Western third-party devs to develop for it, they could do a huge advertising campaign, even rebrand all of Nintendo as a company. But here's the question: Is it worth it? I don't think it is. All of that stuff is a gamble and they'd be spending a ton of money trying to turn something around that's already pretty far gone in the eyes of the mainstream public. Which is why I think it's obvious at this point that Nintendo's goal is to ride out the Wii U. Have it flop and be the laughingstock of the gaming industry for a few years while they invest a bunch of money into QoL and their next-gen products.

Keep in mind that I'm saying this as someone who loves the Wii U personally as a console. I just can't see it succeeding from a business perspective anymore than it is.

What if retailers threaten to pull it though. Then what?