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As bad as things seem for the Wii U, I still think NIntendo can turn things around
- Thread starter Yuripaw
- Start date
But these contract are not that inflexible. There's a minimum amount you have buy in a certain time, the rest is up to negotiations.
People need to stop saying drop the gamepad. It's the best thing about the system in my opinion. As much as people here want to dismiss it's not that people aren't interested its that they don't know it exists. None of my gaming friends had even heard of a Wii U before seeing it at my place. These are people who bought a PS4 at launch and who own Wii's. The name and the message is the problem.
ZombiePlatypus
Member
People are just feeding into the hysteria. No denying the console's in damn bad shape, but beyond recovering from falling off the cliff? Please, let's not make premature calls. It's not over until it's actually over.
I think they can still turn it around have the console be a niche offering.
Yeah, gamepad's awesome. Glad to hear Iwata admit that they underused it and that they plan to focus on it more going forward.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
I feel better about my Vita than I do my Wii U. Worst comes to worst I'll be playing games from every Playstation generation on it.
What does 'a niche offering' mean? 10-12 million total sales? That's dead as far as GAF is concerned, and dead as far as Nintendo is concerned. You can't just shift the bar of success lower and lower until the Wii U finally meets it.
Most people consider the Gamecube's 20-25 million as the cutoff point for a successful console. There's no way the Wii U can ever hope to approach those numbers. Shit's dead. Dead from a sales point of view, dead to third parties, dead to casuals, dead to the hardcore.
It's not dead to Nintendo until they're done with their announced games, and it's not dead to me or other Nintendo fans until we've played those games. But it's dead.
silver.tongue
Member
They need to move on with something else.
The 3DS is great and I don't understand why people say it is doing badly.
But the WiiU... that ship has sailed.
The 3DS is great and I don't understand why people say it is doing badly.
But the WiiU... that ship has sailed.
Nikodemos
Member
With the mobile and tablet market being what it is, wiggle room has decreased noticeably in recent years. I mean, we're talking here of at most 1 million units leeway in Nintendo's case.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
At this point I wouldn't be surprised if Fire Emblem and Yoshi get canned, and X is the last game on the system. Unless that gets canned also.
EventHorizon
Member
Nintendo thought that they would have an uptick in sale around Christmas and with the release of new games late in the year. They would have had to have the stock in place to meet that expected demand. They only revised down their expectations January. Exactly when do you think they would have reduced their production? If that is at all possible then that is happening right now. Not at any time earlier.
ZombiePlatypus
Member
I dunno, I guess whatever the minimum numbers are for it to stabilize, stop the red-ink, and turn a paltry profit. I can't imagine approaching that goal being absolutely, 100% impossible if they address their marketing, release-schedule of games, etc.
So you're saying yearly profitability going forward, no matter how small, is a success? Okay, that's a fair opinion from this hole they're in. I also think that any kind of profitability on the Wii U is just as impossible as 20 million sales. See the good comments projecting the amount of unsold units for my reasons why.
gabrielbsb
Neo Member
I don't care about selling charts, IMO Nintendo have great first party franchises and that's why I bought the Wii U
The only one who should be worried by weak sales is Nintendo, not me
The only one who should be worried by weak sales is Nintendo, not me
Imperfected
Member
Well, let's just take Occam's razor to it:
Iwata continued to promise nine million units shipped up until about a month shy of the earnings report. Nintendo would have had to produce nine million units in that period, because any units produced that final month would not have been shipped to retailers in time to make the quarterly earnings report anyway.
Now, while I wouldn't put it past Iwata at this point to lie to investors, continuing to tell them he's going to ship nine million when it's physically impossible for him to do so... well, I do put that past him. That would change the refrain of "fire Iwata" slightly; you'd need append "out of a cannon" onto the end.
So, nine million is almost certainly your bare minimum estimate for extant stock.
Nintendo knew that they won't sell 9m long ago. In their case a sell out would have been a best case scenario, so they didn't have to care about it. Realistically Nintendo has about a million or two in stock. They didn't have to reduce the production because they never raised it. Don't forget Nintendo is a very cautions company.
Nothing can turn it around at this point. Even iwata acknowledged a game like MK8 will just give it a temporary bump in sales instead of crucial long term momentum.
They probably expect gamecube levels of success at most in the end, so they'll just do what they did before, stick with it for the next 2-3 years, keep making a few games and try to minimise their losses with other strategies they talked about in the investor briefing.
About summer last year in the uk some supermarkets removed wii u's from their shelves completely. Ever since the PS4/Bone launches, even in specialist game retailers the wii u's minimal section's are barely noticable compared to the rest, with some even displaying wii u software in the wii section. It comes down to why would they give costly shelf and warehouse space to something that doesn't sell, when they can give it to something that can?
They probably expect gamecube levels of success at most in the end, so they'll just do what they did before, stick with it for the next 2-3 years, keep making a few games and try to minimise their losses with other strategies they talked about in the investor briefing.
About summer last year in the uk some supermarkets removed wii u's from their shelves completely. Ever since the PS4/Bone launches, even in specialist game retailers the wii u's minimal section's are barely noticable compared to the rest, with some even displaying wii u software in the wii section. It comes down to why would they give costly shelf and warehouse space to something that doesn't sell, when they can give it to something that can?
HamsterPackage
Member
Well if it keeps going the way it's going you might not have many first party titles to play......ya know if they shit can the thing and all...
You still hung on that inflexible production. These aren't the nineties anymore.
Baron Aloha
A Shining Example
It's done. Smash Bros will probably be the last major game released. Honestly I think they should just cut the cord now and save whatever games they haven't released yet for their next system. Seems like a waste to release Mario Kart and Smash on a system that is more or less already dead.
Tricky I Shadow
Banned
Please. Youre either in denial or you dont know what youre talking about if you think Nintendo can turn the Wii U around.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Those terrible sales will mean less great first party games on your $300 Wii U. Once the few remaining third parties start canceling games you can bet the plug will be pulled a lot sooner than later.
Man, it just dawned on me...what if Zelda gets cancelled? I'll be pretty pissed off.
EventHorizon
Member
That doesn't pass the smell test. Once again Imperfected beat me to explaining why. See the post above yours. Are you really trying to say that Iwata provably lied for most of last year? I admit that Iwata exaggerated sales projections, but that would mean that Nintendo knowingly produced 4-5 million fewer units than they said they would sell. I don't know the law but that sounds like a massive lawsuit, if not worse, in the making.
Stone Ocean
Member
Making Smash also a 3DS game was the biggest fucking mistake ever. The handheld version will canibalize the Wii U sales hard.
Nope. In retrospect it was a brilliant move. Wii U is beyond salvation. This way the SSB IP can keep growing this generation and make piles of cash that weren't possible if it was just a Wii U game.
Imperfected
Member
Are we going to need Occam's machete?
There were numerous requests of Iwata all the way up to this month as to whether or not he was going to revise sales projections on the basis of disappointing numbers. He was stalwart in his refrain that the Wii-U would experience a turnaround and meet sales projections right up until the post-holiday sales numbers were released.
If he was promising nine million units would be shipped (and he was), then he damn well better have had production capacity to make it physically possible to do so. If he had already ordered production curtailed and it was no longer possible to produce that many units, and he continued to promise those numbers to investors, then he is not only guilty of gross incompetence but also securities fraud via corporate misconduct and is likely to have a great many (likely ex-)investors out for his blood rather than simply his resignation.
Again, this isn't a case where he said, "We're going to ship nine million units next year" in January of last year, he continued to make that promise up until just a couple of weeks ago. He had many opportunities to revise their projections - including the quarterly earnings reports, where he was expected to do so in an official capacity - and chose to stick with the nine million number. A number that, while completely unrealistic, had better have at least been possible for the entire period he made those promises.
Stone Ocean
Member
Well yeah, in retrospect the game will actually get to sell now but at the time this decision was made? That was incredibly stupid.
Well if these first party titles are quality-wise close to the likes of 3D World or Pikmin it shouldn´t really matter. I still play Mario a lot. Can´t say that about the software on One or PS4, seems like fast food that I mostly won´t memorize for long (I am sure there will hopefully also software that will get me back to the game again and again but right now ...). Completed a lot of stuff in less than a week and have no urge to play that stuff again or already sold it again because it was so underwhelming.
I don´t need 10 games released each month when there are a handful that I like to replay again and again.
Well it's the result that counts. I don't think it matters that much. Wii U version will be definitive and be released first so it'll even out I think.
ryanofcall
Member
I still don't get why a lot of GAFfers say Nintendo should pay third parties for exclusives.
Why does Nintendo need third party exclusives?
They certainly could use third party support for multiplatform titles, but their first/second party exclusives are mostly better (and usually way more than on other platforms) than third party exclusives?
Or is that just me?
And I rather see my money (I paid for Nintendo Consoles/Games) being spent on actual (first/second party) games than on contracts with a third party, even if this means less sales for Nintendo.
Why does Nintendo need third party exclusives?
They certainly could use third party support for multiplatform titles, but their first/second party exclusives are mostly better (and usually way more than on other platforms) than third party exclusives?
Or is that just me?
Actually I can't actually think about the last third party game that was really good and exclusive to one platform.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
I dont think anyone thinks WiiU will turn around in reality now unless theyve not been reading the threads of the past month. Sure, theres a fictional other dimension where the stars align or something, but here in this one theres no way back, especially now Iwatas made his presentation on what theyre doing next with it (very little, riding it out).
Even if they could reach a bargain bin £99/$199 (apparently they cant!) it would still sell along the same graph as the Dreamcast, lower than the Gamecube. There is no solution at this point.
Even if they could reach a bargain bin £99/$199 (apparently they cant!) it would still sell along the same graph as the Dreamcast, lower than the Gamecube. There is no solution at this point.
Here's the thing: Nintendo has passed a point where they could drop the gamepad. When they said that dropping it wasn't an option, they meant it. Launch titles would become unplayable, sure Nintendo could go in and fix their titles but companies like EA would have no incentive to do it unless Nintendo paid them enough to cover the cost to do so. And when I say cover the cost. I mean paying them more than they could earn from a new game on a non dying system. And even then, like others have said, it's still not appealing.
I don't think new game announcements from Nintendo are coming. I think after Smash, it's going to be the 3DS and whatever that new fitness product is.
I don't think new game announcements from Nintendo are coming. I think after Smash, it's going to be the 3DS and whatever that new fitness product is.
HamsterPackage
Member
Well you might like to play the same games over and over but I think you might be in the minority. And as I said if they decide to call it a day you'll be replaying those games an awful lot.
People wanting Nintendo to move on.. But with what honestly ?
I would totally wait one more year and release a great hybrid portable that would potentially be a bigger sucess than the 3DS (and wayyy bigger sucess than the WiiU ogcourse), but as a traditional home console.. ?
Sometimes people act like Nintendo just missed a step and they can turn things around by making the next one right.. But what if there is nothing they can really do ?
What if they release a console as powerfull as the xbone for 300€, and third parties STILL don't come... What if they have no immediately marketable innovations that would make a difference. A cheaper console with equivalent power to the others would just be a gamecube in the end, the situation being the same as it was before.
The hybrid portable is he only think i can think of that can strike the world as being something new and great. A real hybrid that is a great portable and allow you tu play on tv, local multi, and link different people in the house with wiiu type philosophy.
I would totally wait one more year and release a great hybrid portable that would potentially be a bigger sucess than the 3DS (and wayyy bigger sucess than the WiiU ogcourse), but as a traditional home console.. ?
Sometimes people act like Nintendo just missed a step and they can turn things around by making the next one right.. But what if there is nothing they can really do ?
What if they release a console as powerfull as the xbone for 300€, and third parties STILL don't come... What if they have no immediately marketable innovations that would make a difference. A cheaper console with equivalent power to the others would just be a gamecube in the end, the situation being the same as it was before.
The hybrid portable is he only think i can think of that can strike the world as being something new and great. A real hybrid that is a great portable and allow you tu play on tv, local multi, and link different people in the house with wiiu type philosophy.
Yep. We were all saying 'what the hell can they possibly do at this stage' over the last two months, but there was still a feeling that maybe they had a trick up their sleeve; maybe they saw something that the collective insight of GAF (lol) couldn't.
The financial conference proved otherwise, and all hope is now emphatically gone. I just feel really bad for Platinum having to release their games for such a bomba console.
EventHorizon
Member
I laughed out loud.
Nintendo only sold 2.41 million units last year. While those millions likely agree with you, that is not enough for the Wii U to be a success. Sony learned this lesson with the PS3. Third party games are an important draw for gamers. If your platform doesn't have them with a similar quality to those games on your competitor's console, then you will fail. This is a business. It is not about pleasing a few hardcore fans but about getting a large enough install base to make money.
Bjoern the Smexy
Member
I wouldn't say "biggest mistake ever", because sooner or later it was bound to happen, but yeah it was a big mistake to do this.
They should've developed the Wii U version and release it, THEN announce a special developed 3DS version a few months after the Wii U version released.
Everyone who wants it would've bought Smash Bros. AND a Wii U and after that a 3DS with Smash Bros.
God, I hope Nintendo releases Smash Bros+Wii U bundles. They would be STUPID not to.
Bjoern the Smexy
Member
Nintendo doesn't need 3rd party exclusives. They need multiplats from 3rd parties.
They have exclusives and that's all they will get. But that is not enough.
So yeah, you can play Wonderful 101 and Bayonetta 2 only on Wii U, so what? Does that mean you can play Mass Effect 4 or Metal Gear Rising or Dark Souls 2 on it?
I don't know what the best strategy for Nintendo is, but I really don't think dropping the price to 199 will change anything, I can already buy a premium pack for 249 (for comparison I can get a ps3 for 169 and a 360 for 159).
I also think that before trying to "save" the Wii U, Nintendo should have a clear plan for the future, and, at the moment, they don't seem to have even that.
Anyway, as a gamer just give me smash, kart, X and Bayonetta and I will be more than happy with my Wii U.
I also think that before trying to "save" the Wii U, Nintendo should have a clear plan for the future, and, at the moment, they don't seem to have even that.
Anyway, as a gamer just give me smash, kart, X and Bayonetta and I will be more than happy with my Wii U.
Nope, nope, naha, nope, noway, not a Virgins chance in hell.
I seriously don't see it. I'm trying to. But nah. I'm seriously doubting if I'll even see a Zelda game on it. Afraid of the possibility of a worse GC scenario.
But hey, I had fun with it...Wonder101, oh why didn't more people play it? All it lead me to believe is that the rumors are true. Only Nintendo games sell on a Nintendo console, a few here being the exception to the Rule.
Project cars, yeah I get it, it's not for everyone but give it a chance will ya? The devs deserve something for their hard work.
Watch Dog's? you there?
X? will you keep on tricking me into seeing Xenoblade?
Bayonetta 2. Would believe the Kamiya devotees would come over for W101 so not believing in Bayo either.
SMTxFE? Did Sammy screw something up? Did Nintendo fall? Show me something, please? At least sell it to me guys..
No I can't seriously do this to myself again. I don't believe for a second that anyone in Nintendo atm can do anything to "fix" the U and I don't think catapulting Miyamoto/Iwata would fix anything. Their successors are probably already molded into their Shoes. So iow I'm just hoping I at least get the games I was "promised"(exclusive ones) and wait for Nintendo to release "Super Famicon Ultra Delux HD2".
I seriously don't see it. I'm trying to. But nah. I'm seriously doubting if I'll even see a Zelda game on it. Afraid of the possibility of a worse GC scenario.
But hey, I had fun with it...Wonder101, oh why didn't more people play it? All it lead me to believe is that the rumors are true. Only Nintendo games sell on a Nintendo console, a few here being the exception to the Rule.
Project cars, yeah I get it, it's not for everyone but give it a chance will ya? The devs deserve something for their hard work.
Watch Dog's? you there?
X? will you keep on tricking me into seeing Xenoblade?
Bayonetta 2. Would believe the Kamiya devotees would come over for W101 so not believing in Bayo either.
SMTxFE? Did Sammy screw something up? Did Nintendo fall? Show me something, please? At least sell it to me guys..
No I can't seriously do this to myself again. I don't believe for a second that anyone in Nintendo atm can do anything to "fix" the U and I don't think catapulting Miyamoto/Iwata would fix anything. Their successors are probably already molded into their Shoes. So iow I'm just hoping I at least get the games I was "promised"(exclusive ones) and wait for Nintendo to release "Super Famicon Ultra Delux HD2".
Just yesterday we had a major third party cancel DLC and Nintendo offer refunds. We also had Namco cancel an eshop pacman game.
There are less than 10 total retail releases on this console in 2014. The Dreamcast had better support than this when it was pulled.
Iwata's plan to save the Wii U is to make the Gamepad their highest priority. What was the highest priority before? This remains a mystery. What's the first step in operation "Highest Priority"? A game that runs with a blank Gamepad screen, followed up by Giant Horn 8.
They announced DS VC. Of course, they announced GBA VC a full year ago and it's nowhere to be seen, so don't hold your breath waiting for DS games.
I've saved the best for last. They're already admittedly diverting resources to the new QOL platform. If there's one thing we know Nintendo is good at, it's developing for multiple platforms at the same time. Oh wait...they're terrible at that.
To sum up: It's the last reel of Old Yeller, and we all know what needs to be done.
There are less than 10 total retail releases on this console in 2014. The Dreamcast had better support than this when it was pulled.
Iwata's plan to save the Wii U is to make the Gamepad their highest priority. What was the highest priority before? This remains a mystery. What's the first step in operation "Highest Priority"? A game that runs with a blank Gamepad screen, followed up by Giant Horn 8.
They announced DS VC. Of course, they announced GBA VC a full year ago and it's nowhere to be seen, so don't hold your breath waiting for DS games.
I've saved the best for last. They're already admittedly diverting resources to the new QOL platform. If there's one thing we know Nintendo is good at, it's developing for multiple platforms at the same time. Oh wait...they're terrible at that.
To sum up: It's the last reel of Old Yeller, and we all know what needs to be done.
knerlington
Banned
Lower the price. Been way too high since the release considering what's in it.
Seriously. They've raised the price. A basic version costs as much as a premium one now in Sweden. About $14 more for a premium one than the basic version.
Seriously. They've raised the price. A basic version costs as much as a premium one now in Sweden. About $14 more for a premium one than the basic version.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
I honestly feel that while obviously Nintendo paid to keep the lights on and running by funding development, The Wonderful 101 damaged Platinum's reputation potentially for the rest of their existence. When reports came out that it was their highest budget title yet, that compounded problems. Going forward, how do they convince any other publisher they can "really do it this time"? Essentially they've knee-capped the budgets they can expect offered to them going forward.
Sega already screwed the pooch with them by not advertising Vanquish at all, but then when Nintendo too didnt bother either, it should be painfully obvious to Inaba that unless the contracts he signs have a 30-40% of budget goes to TV advertising clause, they'll not repeat Bayonetta and Revengeance successes, as mild as they were.
Oh and they need to get their shit onto Steam with a fierce priority. If even Treasure is "considering it", you know Japanese devs have to start changing how shit operates and swiftly.
By end of October, Nintendo was 8.5 million consoles away from hitting their 9 million target, but they still insisted that they were going to sell 9 million through November and December (and their usual dead zone between the holidays and April 1), and post ¥100 billion ($1 billion) profit.
It's ridiculous to think Nintendo would make that claim without the hardware to back it up. At best, Iwata saw the writing on the wall after Black Friday, and might have aborted something like a million consoles, if they were making a million per-month. At worst, they have more than 6.59 million units, and even more in unassembled parts.
Nintendo can't restart the Wii U. They're just lying to their fans, hoping to squeeze as much money out of that 6+ million unsold hardware as they can. But it won't work. The sales will only continue to drop, and they'll be forced to cut the price. I would have preferred if they cut the price now, lower the barrier of entry, drive some software sales, and let the console bow out with it's dignity intact.
I would have liked it if they accepted the need to cut back on Wii U development (failing your targets by 6+ million should do that), and re-prioritized the 3DS as their new "flagship console". Nintendo games lose money on Wii U and earn money on 3DS. And despite Iwata's "saving" of the 3DS, it's still in rough shape, and needs to sell more games. I think Wii U development actually should continue as a service to the fans (plus the 6 million new fans more rapidly reached with a price cut), and because Nintendo has already sunk money into projects, but they should be cut back, if possible.
Excess manpower in this transition should have gone where everyone said it should have gone, and Nintendo should have recognized this "unique opportunity" to make short-term profits by making smartphone games. Not a lot of them, just testing the waters with real games (not ports that require real D-pads), designed and built around the unique concepts of smartphones. The experience could also help Nintendo in other areas.
Nintendo should have also made it clear that they're not abandoning hardware development, but that their next platform (and there will always be another platform) will not be rushed, in fact they will take extra care to ensure that it doesn't repeat the performance of the Wii U. In the meantime they're talking to developers to learn more about what developers want from a hardware platform. Oh and, Reggie must be promoted to CEO of NOA, and he needs a seat on the board of Nintendo, that way he can enact real change and grow NOA into the powerhouse it used to be, instead of just the marketing tool it has become under Iwata.
Indeed. A new home console that's on a par with the others will get them no more support than Wii U did at this stage....probably less to be honest.
The only thing I would consider in Nintendo's position is an uber budget home console/set-top box... based on the Wii U tech (so they can still keep Wii U owners vaguely happy by putting the same content on both machines)..minus the gamepad, minus the blu-ray, minus the streaming tech, minus the backwards compatibility..with a complete rebrand. With content download only or on SD cards...sold for half the price of the Wii U. I'm not saying that would work but it's their only viable alternative.
A new, more powerful home console is utterly pointless until the next gen starts.
For their console business they either need to stick with the Wii U and try to boost sales to a degree/offer a budget device based on the same tech/or dump their console entirely (which could damage them far more long term) )and put everything into the 3DS/ their QOL 3rd pillar ......anything else is money down the drain.
Stone Ocean
Member
Well, at least they have the "It's the Wii U's fault!" excuse to go this time.
Gunmonkey36
Member
The writing is on the wall. You just happen to be looking at the sky for that bit of hope, but eventually even your head will get tired.