KernelPanic
Member
Fuck bullying. My kid will most likely be homeschooled. Me and my wife made the decision a long time ago before we had the kids but shit like this doesn't make me revisit that choice.
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11-yr-old Boy Bullied for Being A Brony Fighting for Life After Suicide Attempt
- Thread starter Volimar
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What does this have to do with my point?
Do I wish that the parents of the bullies brought up their children better so that this incident would not have occurred? Yes.
Will that ever change the fact that there are many terrible parents out there who end up raising school bullies? No.
Are the parents of the victim able to change the fact that there are many bullies out there? No.
Are the parents of the victim able to not tell their kid stupid shit like "it didnt matter what other people think. It only matters what he thinks" and help their kid become more street smart and hence less prone to bullying? Yes.
This isn't reality.
Concidering liking a tv show is normal in adult life and no one cares.
And while you might be bulled for being gay , or black. Those are things you can't really help and i am sure you are no arguing that people who some how fall in to those two categores should hide themselves.
But yeah, its not a reality no one really gives a shit you like a childrens tv show in the real world. That is why this advice is terrible.
If we are so liberal in crying "victim blaming", the discussion won't be very deep. The main issue is of course the bullying itself, and what can be done to stop it. Everything that can be done in monitoring and preventing it is positive.
However, dismissing the moral complexities and social pressures present in situations like this shouldn't be done. The reality is that 11 year old kids are insecure and not sure what they like or want. Assuming that they have thick skin, strong moral codes, beliefs and able to have an attitude of "I like what I like and I don't care what others think" is just naive. They live in a society not by themselves, and learning how to fit in, and to have an understanding of how the society looks back at them is not a bad thing in my opinion. Unless they plan to live by themselves in a cave, at some point they need to understand the context in which they live or they will never fit in. People will always judge everything about you, and until you have mental stability and thick skin to deal with it you need your parents or whoever to shield you and teach you how society works.
Trickster
Member
I think that the fact that this is about MLP is making you blind to just how stupid what you're saying, actually is right now.
If this was an issue about, let's say the kids being actually gay. And he was bullied because of his sexual orientation. Would you still think the parents telling him that "it didn’t matter what other people think. It only matters what he thinks" was stupid shit?
Sure, go ahead and do all you want about the problem. If I was a parent, I'd join in too because I was a victim of bullying myself. Maybe something will happen in a year or two. Or maybe in five years. That changes absolutely nothing for the parents' child who is currently in school. I'm not saying ignore the problem of bullying. I am saying that as parents of a child, the best thing they can do to help their child in the very near-term is to teach him how to adapt better to the situation as it is currently.
How hard is this to understand?
Arkos
Nose how to spell and rede to
Your argument is that the parents should have changed their kids behavior. By that argument, the blame is at best a wash, because the bullies parents also should have changed their kids behavior. And in the event of such a tie, I'd say we should side with the people that were just teaching their kid to be proud of who he is.
Sure you should teach kids to be street smart, I don't disagree with you about that, I'm just saying that your argument doesn't seem to hold up, if you want to say that the kid shouldn't have been such a Brony you need a better argument.
Thats great and all, but you forget the context.
A television show.
No one in the adult world gives a shit you like a TV show, and that's why this advice is terrible. Why would advise my kid, one not to do something because some dick bags at school don't like it. Concidering multiple things could be done about that whole situation by itself by perents staff ect. And next , why would i tell me kid not to do something , that in real life has no concequences. To tell my child not to do that, is not like those other people win. No one cares what the fuck you watch on tv in real life.
Also all of you arguing that point, are kind of condoning bulling which is a shit thing to do , in the first place. Instead of telling him not to wear shit, how about we punish the children bulling people and teaching them.
I was, I think many were.
As odd as it sounds I believe to a point it is a healthy part of growing up because the reality of life is what it is.
Children need to learn coping skills at an early age, they need to learn to deal with asshats and move beyond them and it will help them later in life.
A massive problem is that parents suck on both sides and unfortunately these children are the ones who suffer for it.
gwynplaine
Banned
you won't shame him at home but others will shame him. that's hardly no consequences. go over my last post if you want an exact answer on why
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=99561053&postcount=194
If I knew that being openly gay would get him bullied, I'd tell him to be whoever he wants but not tell anyone in school about it. If I knew that being openly gay would not get him bullied, I'd tell him to be whoever he wants and tell whoever he wants in school about it.
See what I mean?
Go look up my post history on MLP. I've been more intellectually curious about it than anything else.
There are no consequences.
In the adult world no one cares. The only context this exist in, is school. And will be a terrible parent if tell my kid to model his entire thought process on social dynamics on middle or elementary school. Because in the real world, its not remotely true.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
Middle Schoolers can really be a pack of bastards. I really hope that he can recover.
ab.aeterno
Member
I'm not sure what's sadder: the fact that people so young can be so emotionally traumatized that they think there's no escape from the pain except taking their life, or the fact that the bullies are probably laughing hysterically about what they made the kid do and tweeting each other congratulations before going back to Call of Duty.
The parents of the bullies should be fucking ashamed for failing so miserably as both parents and human beings. It's assholes like that, probably saying no end of unconscious homophobic shit, that instill in young people a continuing hatred for gays, trannsgendered, and "others."
The parents of the bullies should be fucking ashamed for failing so miserably as both parents and human beings. It's assholes like that, probably saying no end of unconscious homophobic shit, that instill in young people a continuing hatred for gays, trannsgendered, and "others."
gwynplaine
Banned
Well obviously he's not out of school yet. He's NOT an adult. You raise kids differently exactly for that matter. You tell him once you're in college / real life it's different. You'll encounter less jerks because people have matured and you won't care as much.
Your kid won't have the experience to differentiate the two but he will be smart enough to know there is and trust you on the matter.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
How is an 11 year old a brony? Afaik bronies were grown men who liked the show.. not a kid that is the intended age to watch the show.
Anyways.. horrible story. i hope he makes it. i also disagree with the sentiment that the uncle is at fault somehow. He told the kid to stand up for what he believed.. you know, a cartoon show.
Anyways.. horrible story. i hope he makes it. i also disagree with the sentiment that the uncle is at fault somehow. He told the kid to stand up for what he believed.. you know, a cartoon show.
Chezzymann
Member
Yeah, there's probably a lot of people even in this thread that were (obviously wrongly) discriminating against bronies simply because they have different tastes than them.
n00bsauce87
Member
Blaming the victim is never the answer people.
We should be able to enjoy our interests how we please as long as it's not illegal. Until it's a crime for an 11 year old brony to wear a bracelet, I see nothing wrong.
Bullies on the other hand are always wrong. It's not your job to tell other people what they should and shouldn't like and ridicule them.
I would find that bully and make him visit the 11 year old. Let him know that you put him in this state with your bullying. Maybe that would straighten him out. Unless he truly has no emotions and doesn't care that he drove him to a point where he almost killed himself.
BTW, I wonder when kids start to get ideas in their heads that suicide is a choice to take when dealing with issues. Could it be from tv or the internet? Things have change since when I was growing up.
We should be able to enjoy our interests how we please as long as it's not illegal. Until it's a crime for an 11 year old brony to wear a bracelet, I see nothing wrong.
Bullies on the other hand are always wrong. It's not your job to tell other people what they should and shouldn't like and ridicule them.
I would find that bully and make him visit the 11 year old. Let him know that you put him in this state with your bullying. Maybe that would straighten him out. Unless he truly has no emotions and doesn't care that he drove him to a point where he almost killed himself.
BTW, I wonder when kids start to get ideas in their heads that suicide is a choice to take when dealing with issues. Could it be from tv or the internet? Things have change since when I was growing up.
entremet
Member
Kids are particularly cruel since their empathy centers in their brains haven't matured, so I'm not surprised.
Homophobia is a very common bullying tactic. I remember it vividly. Not against me--I was pretty tall and avoided bullies due to my size. But "fag" "gay" "homo" were common in middle school.
Homophobia is a very common bullying tactic. I remember it vividly. Not against me--I was pretty tall and avoided bullies due to my size. But "fag" "gay" "homo" were common in middle school.
That sounds like good ol fashoned victim blaming to me.
Nah officer being black in one area, he shouldn't have been.
I can't get behind that ostrich weakling logic, sorry.
Pretty much what I was thinking.
Aren't bronies usually adults? was he in some sort of bronie club? I can't help but get the sense we don't have the whole story, I mean he had support at home, that usually helps preventing this stuff.
For the record, just because I did not single them out does not mean I am avoiding blaming the bullies and their parents. The reason I did not do it is because those things are obvious enough. Bullies should be discouraged from doing what they do. Parents of bullies should raise their kids better. Who doesn't agree with that or who doesn't know that?
I was just trying to highlight something I thought the victim's parents could have done better.
EdibleKnife
Member
So if he was bullied for being a straight A student, would people still be telling him to pretty much "conform" and hide his intellect? What about for being autistic? Or albino?
gwynplaine
Banned
No need to use names - why you bullying?
That's fine - zero tolerance isn't the answer though. Schools will be empty by the end of the week.
The best bet like the other poster said is making it a generational change initiative. Institutionalize it from the beginning. Anti-smoking and anti-drinking messages were successful campaigns so there's no reason why this one isn't too. You'll need to train and incorporate teachers on it too on alternative forms of classroom management - where do you think kids learn some of that behavior from? Some teachers like to yell and shame kids who disrupt their class. The whole system is rigged that way.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Agreed completely. I got shat on by some in school. But never really bullied. Back then you could punch a kid in the face and just get in school suspension for a day. I can't imagine why it can't be as simple as the bullied kid or their parents being able to inform school staff and the staff then contacts the bullies and their parents and informs them to cut it out and keeps an eye on the situation.
There's an old saying in the business world that goes, "the nail that sticks up gets hammered down". That's not true in every business, and especially not great businesses, but it is VERY true in 5th/6th grade.
Personally, my opinion lies somewhere in between the (banned) people who are doing a form of victim/parent blaming, and people who believe, "Hey, that is crap, the kid should be free to express himself however he wants, and show his love of whatever he wants!".
The reality is that kids are awful to each other. My son turns 10 next month, and if he wanted to wear MLP stuff to school (he's not a huge fan of the show, but does watch it with his sister), I would tell him sure, go ahead. We would also have another talk about bullies, and if he feels like he can deal with them if anyone makes fun of him. I would support his choice either way, and have a follow up talk to see how it went.
It is a bitch being a parent. But shielding them via home schooling or "Christian" schooling is a terrible answer. I come from a family of public school educators/administrators, and I have stories that would curdle your milk. There is no better way to damage your kid than isolate them from society and their peers. You just need to guide them through the experience and actively work with their teachers, and not blindly send them to school hoping everything will be ok.
This is scary as hell for me to read as my 7 y/o son watches My Little Pony and has a few t-shirts and folders with the shows branding on it.
I think his peers are perfectly okay with it and most of the boys in his class seem to enjoy the show too (they talk about it together when outside of school) but it seems that older kids in the school and some of the girls in his class laugh at him about it. He's only 7 and we as parents are doing our best to make sure he knows that they aren't laughing at him for any other reason than the social pressures involved in bullying.
It's only going to get worse as he gets older of course... we certainly can't tell him to stop wearing his t-shirts or stop bring MLP comic books to school.
I hope this little boy recovers and the bullies' parents step up and take responsibility for their actions.
I think his peers are perfectly okay with it and most of the boys in his class seem to enjoy the show too (they talk about it together when outside of school) but it seems that older kids in the school and some of the girls in his class laugh at him about it. He's only 7 and we as parents are doing our best to make sure he knows that they aren't laughing at him for any other reason than the social pressures involved in bullying.
It's only going to get worse as he gets older of course... we certainly can't tell him to stop wearing his t-shirts or stop bring MLP comic books to school.
I hope this little boy recovers and the bullies' parents step up and take responsibility for their actions.
Arkos
Nose how to spell and rede to
Well I feel like you're pursuing it a little further than just highlighting that issue, but okay, sure, hindsight is 20/20, if the parents knew something like this would happen they would have done something. But what should people do with their kids going forward? You say
And also
So, basically, you can never know that your kid won't get bullied for being openly gay (or openly Brony, or openly weird). So would you tell your kid to conceal whatever non-conforming traits they possess?
That's still where your argument leads.
ab.aeterno
Member
"Boys will be boys."
Seriously, no officials ever give two shits when bullying is reported. The number of times situations were ever handled for anyone was near zero.
Exactly. Blaming the bullies does not exclude trying to educate your kid in how do deal with situations like this.
Fair point. I have nothing to offer except to say that it's tough being a parent.
Absolutely, it's very important to talk to your kids about what bullying really means and why they may be targeted for bullying. Schools are also really good now at raising bullying awareness and education.
Arkos
Nose how to spell and rede to
Word I definitely agree with you. I already said I don't know what I would have done in this situation. Mad props to all the parents out there, best wishes to this guy and his family. Edit: it's obviously easier to be idealistic in a forum discussion than in the real world.
Edit2: vvvv yeah is there any indication that they didn't do this? If they didn't warn their kid or try to support him when he complained about it, then yes of course they are dense.
Why do you assume people aren't talking to their children about bullying?
I had to get the , Your black its tough to be black and some people will hate you because of it , talk very very young. And the subsequent, " oh no we gotta have an arabic talk now" talk.
You can give the kid the talk, that however does make people stop, nor does that make staff do anything about it. Don't assume that people ain't teaching their kid
I can tell you that I showed my eldest the movie "Bully", and it was incredibly helpful in opening up that dialog. I haven't showed it to my youngest yet as she's only 7, but it's coming.
Epsilon-delta
Banned
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
One of the biggest problems with bullying in schools is that the schools themselves are more often than not more concerned with posting decent test scores and averages, than with the educational, emotional, and physical security of the kids. That's also unfortunately compounded by increasingly lawsuit-happy parents. The kids are having to fend for themselves and it's a damn shame.
Both kids and adults need to learn basic respect for others and that you don't shit on others because they like something you don't, or because they're different from you.
Both kids and adults need to learn basic respect for others and that you don't shit on others because they like something you don't, or because they're different from you.
Well telling a child 'you're different so expect to be bullied' isn't the kind of education I'm talking about. Me and my SO have worked as parents to help my son understand that if he's the target of a bully, it's likely because the bully is dealing with his or her own problems and it probably has little to do with my son. We've tried to help him understand that the proper reaction isn't to ignore it or keep the bullying to himself but to let people know so that they bully can get the help he or she needs.
Later, once he's able to understand it better, we'll teach him about the social side of bullying. How social pressures push kids toward pointing and laughing at the kid everyone else is pointing and laughing at. We talk every day about what happened at school and if he mentions that he laughed at someone or someone laughed at him then we talk about that specifically to make sure everything is okay still.
He's only 7, so who knows if our approach is going to work, but the school's education has been focusing on this kind of thing as well. Bullying, in my son's elementary school, is not tolerated.
I don't like the attempt to tie this kid to the brony culture. He isn't a brony. He's a 11 years old. Kids are supposed to watch the show. It's made for them. It's sad that he tried to kill himself. I was bullied a lot in school for stuttering and being autistic. Often, teachers would stand by and do nothing or blame me because they wanted to be liked by the "cool" kids. It happened all through schooling even into high school. It's one reason why I have just a hate for teachers in general. They are human and humans want to belong to the "cool" kids. They are not professionals that's for sure.
The talk won't make the other kids stop, but it might help my kid to deal with it in a sane manner while other solutions (stopping the bullying) are being worked on. I don't assume parents are not talking to their children, but I felt to need to emphasize it since my first post was about it and you answered with "victim blaming".
Kids can be so mean and cruel to each other. It is very sad. I believe we have all probably witness some sort of harassment as we grew up or even part take in teasing some one. Hope this kid can recover from this. You kind of lose faith in humanity when you read about these of stories.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
I thought Brony was exclusively for the people who sexualize the show and make it creepy. I thought you could be an adult fan of MLP and not be a brony.
EdibleKnife
Member
I think 'brony' is the same connotation as 'Trekkie' simply referring to the extent and intensity of their fandom (con attendance, paraphernalia collection, etc.).
Risible
Member
Schools are getting better but still have a long way to go with the bullying problem.
I got a call to come pick up my 9 year old son from school recently because he had been in a fight after school and ended up missing the bus. I was surprised as he's easy going and gets along with everyone, and pretty much knows everyone since he plays so many sports. It seemed odd.
I get there and he's all upset - he gets very emotional, especially when he thinks things are unfair. Turns out some dirtbag kid was giving one of the kids in his class, who is a special needs kid, shit about being stupid or other shit related to his special needs. My son tells him to stop, the other kid tells him to fuck off and keeps doing it and my son sees red and pops him. Cue drama and the principal's office.
The principal lets me know that my son will be missing recess for the following week as punishment. I let the principal know that while I can't dictate what happens in school, his punishment on the home front was going to be along the lines of taking him out for ice cream right now and then congratulating him and letting him know how proud I was of him afterwards.
I understand you can't have kids belting other kids willy-nilly. I told him he had to take his punishment like a man. I also told him if it happens again to feel free to pound that kid again. Kids need to learn there are consequences to what they do. If you're gonna be a dipshit to kids weaker than you than you better be prepared if they have friends.
I guess my question is, am I crazy? Sometimes I feel very old-fashioned because, well, I am old.
My wife was all like "violence isn't the answer", but I feel like sometimes yeah, it is. I'm pretty sure that kid is going to think twice about picking on that kid again. I grew up in a boys-don't-cry-rub-some-dirt-on-it era and worry that I'm out of touch. I don't know.
I got a call to come pick up my 9 year old son from school recently because he had been in a fight after school and ended up missing the bus. I was surprised as he's easy going and gets along with everyone, and pretty much knows everyone since he plays so many sports. It seemed odd.
I get there and he's all upset - he gets very emotional, especially when he thinks things are unfair. Turns out some dirtbag kid was giving one of the kids in his class, who is a special needs kid, shit about being stupid or other shit related to his special needs. My son tells him to stop, the other kid tells him to fuck off and keeps doing it and my son sees red and pops him. Cue drama and the principal's office.
The principal lets me know that my son will be missing recess for the following week as punishment. I let the principal know that while I can't dictate what happens in school, his punishment on the home front was going to be along the lines of taking him out for ice cream right now and then congratulating him and letting him know how proud I was of him afterwards.
I understand you can't have kids belting other kids willy-nilly. I told him he had to take his punishment like a man. I also told him if it happens again to feel free to pound that kid again. Kids need to learn there are consequences to what they do. If you're gonna be a dipshit to kids weaker than you than you better be prepared if they have friends.
I guess my question is, am I crazy? Sometimes I feel very old-fashioned because, well, I am old.
My wife was all like "violence isn't the answer", but I feel like sometimes yeah, it is. I'm pretty sure that kid is going to think twice about picking on that kid again. I grew up in a boys-don't-cry-rub-some-dirt-on-it era and worry that I'm out of touch. I don't know.canoli2006
Member
What's the difference now when it comes to the bullying that I went through in the 80's? I got called turtle (for being way into ninja turtles) and titty boy because of gynecomastia. I turned out normal. Kids must be way crueler these days.
Schools are getting better but still have a long way to go with the bullying problem.
I got a call to come pick up my 9 year old son from school recently because he had been in a fight after school and ended up missing the bus. I was surprised as he's easy going and gets along with everyone, and pretty much knows everyone since he plays so many sports. It seemed odd.
I get there and he's all upset - he gets very emotional, especially when he thinks things are unfair. Turns out some dirtbag kid was giving one of the kids in his class, who is a special needs kid, shit about being stupid or other shit related to his special needs. My son tells him to stop, the other kid tells him to fuck off and keeps doing it and my son sees red and pops him. Cue drama and the principal's office.
The principal lets me know that my son will be missing recess for the following week as punishment. I let the principal know that while I can't dictate what happens in school, his punishment on the home front was going to be along the lines of taking him out for ice cream right now and then congratulating him and letting him know how proud I was of him afterwards.
I understand you can't have kids belting other kids willy-nilly. I told him he had to take his punishment like a man. I also told him if it happens again to feel free to pound that kid again. Kids need to learn there are consequences to what they do. If you're gonna be a dipshit to kids weaker than you than you better be prepared if they have friends.
I guess my question is, am I crazy? Sometimes I feel very old-fashioned because, well, I am old.
Violence not being the answer is what we say to people being bullied when teachers don't do shit because they don't want to piss off the popular kids. The best thing to happen to me when I was being bullied is when an Irish priest stayed at our house while he was the visiting vicar at our local parish. He told my parents that we only have to cheeks. Once I started fighting back after a while it stopped.
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