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[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

God the 9th District are a bunch of schmucks, well I guess they needed a new moron decision to go with the Vanna White one.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Without a used game market, perhaps we would have lower game prices. I buy all of my games new and don't sell them. Gamespot provides ZERO value to me since all they are doing is hurting the sales of who I buy direct from.

Yikes.

 

[FLEABttn]

:lol Good one.

I get better game prices and sales on Steam. No second hand market.

Not to mention if there was no second hand market, demand would decrease because people couldn't subsidize the cost of a new purchase with the sale of an old game. The demand at $60 is artificially high because of it. Game prices would have to come down as a result if the industry wanted to sell as many games as they do now.

 

[A Twisty Fluken]

I'll never understand, why those who know the least about technology, are the ones creating the laws to govern it.

 

[Somnid]

I'll never understand, why those who know the least about technology, are the ones creating the laws to govern it.

This is true of everything. Politicians are professional politicians they rarely have great expertise outside, it's an inherent flaw with government. It also seems to be the case that the ones who claim they know a lot about technology are often the ones that don't.

 

[charlequin]

Not to mention if there was no second hand market, demand would decrease because people couldn't subsidize the cost of a new purchase with the sale of an old game.

This assumes a model of price fluidity that does not apply in reality. Games are already priced incorrectly because of the artificially homogeneous price applied to all games, which results in the most popular games being essentially underpriced (MW2 probably could've sold just about as many copies at $70) while most other games are overpriced. Removing used sales would hurt the overall sales of new software, but only in a way that exaggerates the existing pattern: all the lost sales would apply to B-list titles and below, without any appreciable harm to the AAA titles on top.

Since the industry is already failing completely to address this particular issue now with new pricing models, it's pretty unbelievable that they'd do so if the same issue simply became more exaggerated due to elimination of used sales.

 

[FLEABttn]

This assumes a model of price fluidity that does not apply in reality. Games are already priced incorrectly because of the artificially homogeneous price applied to all games, which results in the most popular games being essentially underpriced (MW2 probably could've sold just about as many copies at $70) while most other games are overpriced. Removing used sales would hurt the overall sales of new software, but only in a way that exaggerates the existing pattern: all the lost sales would apply to B-list titles and below, without any appreciable harm to the AAA titles on top.

Since the industry is already failing completely to address this particular issue now with new pricing models, it's pretty unbelievable that they'd do so if the same issue simply became more exaggerated due to elimination of used sales.

The AAA at the top would appreciably harmed by the removal of used games because their demand is elastic. They sell well with the used game subsidy. The removal of the subsidy would shift the entire demand curve down so fast Kottick would gasp. This isn't insulin, if the price of games is too much, people will do other things.

 

[charlequin]

The AAA at the top would appreciably harmed by the removal of used games because their demand is elastic.

I actually think it's fairly unlikely that the demand for the top games is all that elastic upwards, or that these titles would suffer the losses for gamers whose budgets were reduced: all the current patterns in the industry suggest that people would sooner skip the smaller releases in order to reserve their expenditures for Halo or MW.

 

[thetrin]

I get better game prices and sales on Steam. No second hand market.

Not to mention if there was no second hand market, demand would decrease because people couldn't subsidize the cost of a new purchase with the sale of an old game. The demand at $60 is artificially high because of it. Game prices would have to come down as a result if the industry wanted to sell as many games as they do now.

You live in a fantasy land if you believe publishers would react to this legislation with lower prices.

 

[FLEABttn]

I actually think it's fairly unlikely that the demand for the top games is all that elastic upwards, or that these titles would suffer the losses for gamers whose budgets were reduced: all the current patterns in the industry suggest that people would sooner skip the smaller releases in order to reserve their expenditures for Halo or MW.

Which may be the case, though there would still be some noticeable impact to the AAA. If you're effectively making games more expensive, the demand curve shifts down/back. There is no going around that.

You live in a fantasy land if you believe publishers would react to this legislation with lower prices.

I live in a fantasy world where when expectations change, there is a new equilibrium found between price, supply, and demand? Ooooookay.

 

[TOAO_Cyrus]

So this is for digital items, eh? That actually makes sense. You cannot own a digital item, it's not a thing, it's a patten of bits (or more generally a logical idea). The only way it makes sense to govern something like this is by license, not ownership. Obviously, we do not currently have a system in place to curb abuse given as is and the correct way to address this would be to specify basic rights that need to be included in such a license not try to shoe-horn physical property rights on it.

Software is no different then books and music and should be protected by copyright laws and nothing else. I hate how companies want copyright protection, patent protection, and now want to make it illegal to resell software. Nothing changes about the nature of books and music and movies just because they are stored on a hard drive instead of paper or vinyl or magnetic tape.

 

[Gravijah]

I live in a fantasy world where when expectations change, there is a new equilibrium found between price, supply, and demand? Ooooookay.

"Well, development costs are rising again guys. Next gen is so hard... we have to raise the price of games another 10 dollars!"

 

[clo1_2000]

double

 

[clo1_2000]

I'll throw some fuel into the fire.

Without a used game market, perhaps we would have lower game prices. I buy all of my games new and don't sell them. Gamespot provides ZERO value to me since all they are doing is hurting the sales of who I buy direct from.

'Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt--Abraham Lincoln

 

[charlequin]

I live in a fantasy world where when expectations change, there is a new equilibrium found between price, supply, and demand? Ooooookay.

I would say the world where publishers respond to an increasingly untenable business model that has been destroying the industry for years now by doubling down and sticking their heads in the sand (as they've done in our world) but in response to getting an anti-consumer provision they've pushed for implemented they suddenly reverse course and aggressively work against the price/cost spiral they've trapped themselves in (something this industry has demonstrated no ability or willingness to do) definitely qualifies as a fantasy world. Prices wouldn't go down if used game sales were banned because Halo and its ilk wouldn't feel the burn and every publisher in the industry would continue their current plan of pursuing whatever policies guarantee the most success possible for Halo-size games.

 

[Vagabundo]

America, fuck yeah, comin' in time to save the mother-fuckin day yeah! America, fuck yeah, kiss my ass, and lick my balls yeah!

That's some nice hatin'

In related news I just found out Ireland is also in the Western Hemisphere... fuck...

 

[Yasae]

Video games are digital content, dude. :lol All that means is that this doesn't affect books or vinyl records. It covers CDs, DVDs, and all software.

Important to note that it would not cover music CDs or film DVDs, for example, as there is (typically) no software present and thus no EULA or SLA describing the end user as a licensee, as was the case with this ruling.

EULAs are basically shut doors for developers and publishers to legally fuck consumers, but they're relatively hard to enforce without the parent company's vigilance. AutoDesk was vigilant, its software was expensive, and it stood to actually lose money rather than gain something back via a used market. Game developers gain prominence via the used market; they NEVER had the chance to gain money by law anyway, and thus any whining about their lost revenue (Corey Ledesema) is truly a blight. Gamestop is a blight, too, but they're only taking advantage of the situation like the greedy pigs they are.

Why don't the developers and publishers sue Gamestop? They don't own any copies according to this ruling, not for used or new games. Vernon didn't open the copies of AutoDesk and didn't agree to any EULAs or SLAs, but because he purchased from an entity (several entities, actually) which were only licensees and never owners in the first place, it doesn't matter if he didn't sign any agreements. He was not granted the right to resell as an owner normally has.

AutoDesk owns all copies of its software from here to eternity. No one can legally resell it according to their SLA. All customers are basically licensees, barring another agreement which says otherwise. It works for software that costs $4k a pop, but not games.