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[Aurelian]

No, Cunty. No one validated your point as your point is the only thing misguided here. A person can bring down a room and when you see a friend, colleague, or simply a person on the street in a poor mood - be them man, women, or child - it is generally understood by sociologists, psychologists, and anthropologists that those attitudes can have a direct effect to those around them. Asking them to feign happiness would lead to a cascade effect of improved moods and attitudes. There is a reason why cashiers, waiters, teachers, and others feign happiness in their jobs instead of looking at you with a scowl.

Hey, I don't know if you noticed, but those are paid workers. They smile because it's a practical tool for their job, or even out of fear of getting fired.

Someone on the bus or on the street? They're not under any obligation to make you happy. If you insist that they "smile?" You're just being a selfish asshole, because it's about making you happier, not them. How about we either let people be, or if we're really concerned, ask if there's anything we can do to help?

 

[ExpandKong]

That whole New York cat-calling video was bullshit. They had to do some hilarious back-tracking when it was pointed out that it was all non-white guys doing the cat-calling. They later claimed that there were plenty of white guys doing it too, but that they just never managed to record it on camera

That said, there's some Era-level outrage fanning going on in this thread: people calling on the translator to be fired, boycotting the game, saying they are done with Sega....And all because they changed "Fuck, she's hot!" to "Smile for me" (not to mention the fact that you have the choice for the more direct translation from the Japanese, which keeps it as "Fuck, she's hot"

Come on, we're better than this.

Ok, that was good

As consumers, the only power we have is deciding where our money goes. I see no problem with passing on the game or buying a used copy to oppose this kind of practice.

Calling for the guy’s job is a bit much. Don’t fire him - teach him.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Hey, I don't know if you noticed, but those are paid workers. They smile because it's a practical tool for their job, or even out of fear of getting fired.

Someone on the bus or on the street? They're not under any obligation to make you happy. If you insist that they "smile?" You're just being a selfish asshole, because it's about making you happier, not them. How about we either let people be, or if we're really concerned, ask if there's anything we can do to help?

No. Realizing that your actions would adversely affect those around you and then still doing that action is what is selfish, Cunty.

 

[Jack Videogames]

My day was much better before knowing this. Nobody is safe. No hobby is safe.

 

[Aurelian]

No. Realizing that your actions would adversely affect those around you and then still doing that action is what is selfish, Cunty.

Having a grumpy face (or even just a neutral face) is not a horrible crime that needs correcting. Moreover, the guys who tell women to "smile" are not doing it out of some kind of selfless act, and please don't pretend otherwise.

Tell you what... while I wouldn't want anyone to tell some random stranger to smile, if you do decide to tell a woman this, let me know how she reacts. Something tells me it won't be "why thank you, how selfish of me for expressing my honest emotions."

 

[Dr. Claus]

Having a grumpy face (or even just a neutral face) is not a horrible crime that needs correcting. Moreover, the guys who tell women to "smile" are not doing it out of some kind of selfless act, and please don't pretend otherwise.

Some do, some don't. Trying to paint the world in black and white only further shows how entrenched you are in your sad, nihilistic world view.

Tell you what... while I wouldn't want anyone to tell some random stranger to smile, if you do decide to tell a woman this, let me know how she reacts. Something tells me it won't be "why thank you, how selfish of me for expressing my honest emotions."

I have, as I have to men and children. I have had some good conversations and some bad ones. Again, the world is not in black and white like you so desperately wish to portray, Cunty.

 

[Ban Puncher]

People played Judgement with the English voices?

 

[Domisto]

According to Strichart, as a whole the original Japanese dialogue didn’t quite sound like what it was supposed to be when translated to English, so he had to rely on his personal knowledge of what verbal harassment would sound like for a Western woman.

Someone should tell Strichart that the game is set in Japan. It's called r o l e p l a y i n g .

Or that his localisation is incomplete. Should have made all the characters look and act like Americans do, and make the city look like Detroit. Localise harder. Really whitewash the culture out of those foreigners.

 

[DansDans]

1. Why are translations still being done in the US? They’re not the only country who speaks English (and they do a pretty bad job of it anyway)

2. There are plenty of English speakers in Japan who would love this job of translating - even many in South East Asia. Again, why are they getting translations done in USA

3. Why did he/she/it wait until after the game was released to virtue signal? Missed some great woke points opportunities there... or was it worried that Sega would find out and ask for it to be changed?

 

[The Mad Draklor]

Actually, he did his job, he localized the game. We just don't approve what he did in that scene and that's different.

"Actually, he did his job... only that he did not do his job in this one scene."

This is what you are saying and therefore, he did not do his job. Period. To localize a game, the game should be localized with accurate translations and tones. The person did not do that.

 

[lock2k]

Next they are going to Wokalize a bunch of new games.

 

[Closer]

This is what you are saying and therefore, he did not do his job. Period. To localize a game, the game should be localized with accurate translations and tones. The person did not do that.

You make it sound like direct translations are the only way to localize a product, and that's obviously a fallacy.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

You make it sound like direct translations are the only way to localize a product, and that's obviously a fallacy.

"Actually, he did his job... only that he did not do his job in this one scene."

This is what you are saying and therefore, he did not do his job. Period. To localize a game, the game should be localized with accurate translations and tones. The person did not do that.

If you want to be able to identify fallacies, then you should work on your reading comprehension first.

In addition, your response doesn't support your original thesis that the employee did his job correctly. The employee changed a scene on the basis of scoring virtue signalling points. This is exemplary of doing one's job incorrectly.

 

[Closer]

If you want to be able to identify fallacies, then you should work on your reading comprehension first.

In addition, your response doesn't support your original thesis that the employee did his job correctly. The employee changed a scene on the basis of scoring virtue signalling points. This is exemplary of doing one's job incorrectly.

His job is to localize a product. That involves making changes to it, you liking it or not. He did his job. You are just refusing to accept that and the changes he made.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

His job is to localize a product. That involves making changes to it, you liking it or not. He did his job. You are just refusing to accept that and the changes he made.

Shifting from one argument to another, are you?

Localization =/= Making changes. To localize means to translate the game. If you can't directly translate something, then you find a phrase that has similar tone.

Therefore, the employee did not do his job. The type of changes he made are not of the translating type or formulating phrases/idioms that are of similar tone as the original phrase. This is not a matter of me liking it or not. The employee's changes are not of the type that one would consider localization. As someone put it, it is wokalization.

I would say it is you who are refusing to face the facts.

 

[Closer]

Shifting from one argument to another, are you?

Localization =/= Making changes. To localize means to translate the game. If you can't directly translate something, then you find a phrase that has similar tone.

Therefore, the employee did not do his job. The type of changes he made are not of the translating type or formulating phrases/idioms that are of similar tone as the original phrase. This is not a matter of me liking it or not. The employee's changes are not of the type that one would consider localization. As someone put it, it is wokalization.

I would say it is you who are refusing to face the facts.

I'm not shifting anything. I don't like what he did but I know it's his job to do that if he thinks it's better that way while getting approved by his company, and the game was not changed because of that scene. Simple as that.

 

[Kazza]

As consumers, the only power we have is deciding where our money goes. I see no problem with passing on the game or buying a used copy to oppose this kind of practice.

Calling for the guy’s job is a bit much. Don’t fire him - teach him.

That's true, but I think it would be a real shame if someone who was interested in playing the game were to not buy it due to one single line of dialogue, especially when the game itself has an alternative translation that stays true to the Japanese original.

 

[Cunth]

Scott Strichart? Sounds like a white male...gross

 

[The Mad Draklor]

I'm not shifting anything. I don't like what he did but I know it's his job to do that if he thinks it's better that way while getting approved by his company, and the game was not changed because of that scene. Simple as that.

Yes you are as you are not directly addressing my rebuttal as you have been doing multiple times already. Your response doesn't change the fact that he effectively did not do his job of localizing properly. The changes made were not on the basis of having a phrase or idiom fit the tone of the original text. He made changes due to his personal politics in an aim to virtue signal.

This is not a matter of liking or not liking what he did. He simply did not do his job properly.

 

[TheGreatYosh]

Hahahaha hahahaha!

 

[protonion]

I play with the Japanese dub and the subtitle was fuck she is hot.

 

[The Chairman]

I play with the Japanese dub and the subtitle was fuck she is hot.

The funny thing is that the localizer failed in translating that too, the dude in the game said when he saw the woman "miro yo sugui onna"
which literally means "hey look, amazing woman". so i don't know where this dumbass got "fuck she is hot" from.

 

[xrnzaaas]

People played Judgement with the English voices?

Some people prefer dubbing, because they don't want to read subtitles. It's the same with many foreign films released in the States. I wonder though if the sales increased because of it and if it's worth the effort.

 

[Closer]

Yes you are as you are not directly addressing my rebuttal as you have been doing multiple times already. Your response doesn't change the fact that he effectively did not do his job of localizing properly. The changes made were not on the basis of having a phrase or idiom fit the tone of the original text. He made changes due to his personal politics in an aim to virtue signal.

This is not a matter of liking or not liking what he did. He simply did not do his job properly.

You keep saying it's not his job, but it literally is, so I don't know why you keep repeating yourself while asking me to not repeat myself.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

You keep saying it's not his job, but it literally is, so I don't know why you keep repeating yourself while asking me to not repeat myself.

Strawman. I said that he did not do his job properly.

I repeat myself because you can’t face the facts. I provide my claim (the employee did not do his job properly), evidence (the scene changed was not changed in the basis of making the phrase/idiom fit the tone of the original source), and reasoning (to localize means to translate or change the text so that it fits the tone of the original in case direct translation doesn’t work).

You, on the other hand, only gave a claim, but no evidence or reasoning.

Also, way to not address my rebuttals... again.

 

[Closer]

Strawman. I said that he did not do his job properly.

#127, #160 and #165 says otherwise.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

#127, #160 and #165 says otherwise.

Same problem as before. All claim. No evidence or reasoning.

But I’m nice enough to look at #165 for you.

Shifting from one argument to another, are you?

Localization =/= Making changes. To localize means to translate the game. If you can't directly translate something, then you find a phrase that has similar tone.

Therefore, the employee did not do his job. The type of changes he made are not of the translating type or formulating phrases/idioms that are of similar tone as the original phrase. This is not a matter of me liking it or not. The employee's changes are not of the type that one would consider localization. As someone put it, it is wokalization.

I would say it is you who are refusing to face the facts.

Note where I said the employee did not do his job. This is in contrast to your warped recollection of what I said.

Also, note how I actually explained on top of my claim. This is something you have not done.

Quite ironic really. The person is making excuses for the employee’s wokalization by wokalizing other people’s arguments.

 

[Closer]

Note where I said the employee did not do his job. This is in contrast to your warped recollection of what I said.

Also, note how I actually explained on top of my claim. This is something you have not done.

Quite ironic really. The person is making excuses for the employee’s wokalization by wokalizing other people’s arguments.

Localization is taking an original product form another region and changing it to the target region laguage, culture, tastes and politics. I'm not defending the producer by any means, I'm attacking this weird notion that to localize means only making a translation of the script. It's not.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

Localization is taking an original product form another region and changing it to the target region laguage, culture, tastes and politics. I'm not defending the producer by any means, I'm attacking this weird notion that to localize means only making a translation of the script. It's not.

Ah, region. The employee made changes on the basis of his personal politics.

Region =/= Personal. Therefore, he did not do his job properly.

Even when I play by your rules, your argument falls flat.

 

[Xenon]

Like most things dealing with this type of "education" it's just so fucking heavy handed it knocks you out of the moment in the game.

The inspiration video also reminded me of that Gillette ad and how the different groups were represented.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Localization is taking an original product form another region and changing it to the target region laguage, culture, tastes and politics. I'm not defending the producer by any means, I'm attacking this weird notion that to localize means only making a translation of the script. It's not.

By your own admission, the man did not do his job. He did not localize the product based on the region, but his own personal politics that are not indicative of the region as a whole.

Take the L.

 

[Closer]

Ah, region. The employee made changes on the basis of his personal politics.

Region =/= Personal. Therefore, he did not do his job properly.

Even when I play by your rules, your argument falls flat.

By your own admission, the man did not do his job. He did not localize the product based on the region, but his own personal politics that are not indicative of the region as a whole.

Take the L.

You guys don't see that NA region is reponsible for those type of changes/censor based on recent politcs and culture, so yeah.

 

[Dr. Claus]

You guys don't see that NA region is reponsible for those type of changes/censor based on recent politcs and culture, so yeah.

His personal politics are not indicative of the NA Region as a whole. Why isn't this getting through your thick skull?

 

[The Mad Draklor]

You guys don't see that NA region is reponsible for those type of changes/censor based on recent politcs and culture, so yeah.

A single person is responsible for the changed scene. To extrapolate that to an entire region is complete mental gymnastics.

 

[Closer]

His personal politics are not indicative of the NA Region as a whole. Why isn't this getting through your thick skull?

A single person is responsible for the changed scene. To extrapolate that to an entire region is complete mental gymnastics.

His personal politics are not indicative of the NA Region as a whole, I agree, but his job is to know what is acceptable in that region based on research, and he thought it was not.
Then his changed scene went on to the finished product with Sega's blessing.
And now we have people going mad, way above what should have been.

 

[PhilipDoesMatter]

Pathetic.

 

[Dr. Claus]

His personal politics are not indicative of the NA Region as a whole, I agree, but his job is to know what is acceptable in that region based on research, and he thought it was not.
Then his changed scene went on to the finished product with Sega's blessing.
And now we have people going mad, way above what should have been.

So he didn't do his job. He put his personal feelings before objective fact/truth. He didn't localize base on the region, but his personal politics.

Once again, take the L.

 

[Mexen]

The next time I go to a bar and tell a woman to smile for me, in my heart I'll know exactly what I really mean. In my heart, I'll always know. I'll always know

 

[Closer]

He put his personal feelings before objective fact/truth.

Yeah, right.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

His personal politics are not indicative of the NA Region as a whole, I agree, but his job is to know what is acceptable in that region based on research, and he thought it was not.

And his research was woefully flawed by extrapolating the behavior of a few people in a single city to the behavior to an entire continent.

Then his changed scene went on to the finished product with Sega's blessing.

Appeal to authority. Just because Sega "blessed" this change, it doesn't mean that the employee did his job properly.

And now we have people going mad, way above what should have been.

People are mad because he didn't do his job, even by your own admission as you have stated yourself that the employee's personal politics are not indicative of the entire NA region.

 

[Closer]

And his research was woefully flawed by extrapolating the behavior of a few people in a single city to the behavior to an entire continent.

We can conclude that he thought it was best to take that line out instead of letting it in based, firstly, in that video he remembered while localizing the product. That's it and nothing more outside that.

People are mad because he didn't do his job

People are mad because they think it's not his job or not part of his job.

 

[yurinka]

I think, the localization guy must keep the original concept, idea that the original devs wanted to share in the original work. Instead of literally translate they change some sentences to adapt it to the culture from the new language. Basically in addition to translate they adapt it to make sure the other culure understands the original meaning of the game.

But in this context, I think it's the original gamedev who has to educate if they want to, not the localization guy. The localization guy's job is to "translate" the original meaning of the game being as close to the original idea as possiblem, to explain what is happening in the game. Not to change what is happening in the game to say his personal opinion or to educate about something (even if his personal opinion is ok).

 

[The Mad Draklor]

We can conclude that he thought it was best to take that line out instead of letting it in based, firstly, in that video he remembered while localizing the product. That's it and nothing more outside that.

You're just repeating the same thing you have already stated. This is ad nauseam.

In addition, you are once again not directly addressing my rebuttals. His research was ridiculously flawed by extrapolating the culture of an entire continent off of a single video that recorded the behavior of a few people in one city.

Even by playing by your rules of what localization is, the employee did not make changes according to the NA region's culture.

People are mad because they think it's not his job or not part of his job.

It's not that they think he didn't do his job properly. They know that he did not do his job properly.

Personal politics =/= NA culture

 

[Closer]

You're just repeating the same thing you have already stated. This is ad nauseam.

In addition, you are once again not directly addressing my rebuttals. His research was ridiculously flawed by extrapolating the culture of an entire continent off of a single video that recorded the behavior of a few people in one city.

Even by playing by your rules of what localization is, the employee did not make changes according to the NA region's culture.


It's not that they think he didn't do his job properly. They know that he did not do his job properly.

Personal politics =/= NA culture

NA region culture and politics are fragmented and vast. While I don't agree with the changes he made, it causes no problems lefting that line out instead of in. People mad that the line was out are in the same group than those people that would be mad if it was let in, in my point of view. They have no business saying what someone should or should not do.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

NA region culture and politics are fragmented and vast. While I don't agree with the changes he made, it causes no problems lefting that line out instead of in.

Then the employee effectively did not localize properly. You said it yourself that during localization, the changes are made according to a region's culture. To make changes according to a video he saw that took place in NYC is not localization, by definition.

Therefore, it is a problem because he did not do his job.

People mad that the line was out are in the same group than those people that would be mad if it was let in, in my point of view.

I don't care what your point of view is as you're merely conjecturing. I care about the facts and the fact is that the employee extrapolated the culture of an entire region off of a single video about a few people's behavior in a single city. Remember, even when I adhere to your rules of what localization is, your claim that the employee did his job is objectively incorrect.

They have no business saying what someone should or should not do.

They do have a business because the employee did not do his job regardless if we are following my or your definition of what localization is.

Did the employee make changes so that certain phrases/idioms that would not make sense if directly translated can still fit in tonality? No, he didn't. He made changes out of personal politics

Did the employee make changes so that it fit NA's culture? No, he didn't. He made changes after watching a video of catcalling from a few individuals in NYC.

 

[Closer]

Stuff.

Some people are ok with catcalling some people are not. Not catcalling causes no problems while doing it has potential to cuase problems based on people's subjective feelings. That's the objective truth in this scene.
You guys are mad because you want to be. That's it.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

Some people are ok with catcalling some people are not. Not catcalling causes no problems while doing it has potential to cuase problems based on people's subjective feelings. That's the objective truth in this scene.

Ignoring my rebuttal again, are you? I don't care what some people are okay or not okay with. Some is not representative of an entire region. The topic at hand is did the employee do his job? The answer to that question is objectively no, whether we play by my or your rules on what localization is.

You guys are mad because you want to be. That's it.

Ad nauseam fallacy. Just because you can say this claim sans evidence again and again, it doesn't mean it is true.

I would say that you are mad because the employee is being rightly criticized for not doing his job. Oh my dear heavens, how dare we hold someone accountable!! The absolute horror!!

 

[infinitys_7th]

The devs in japan should be furious.

I'm sure they are fed the big lie these translation departments feed them when they complain.

"It has to be palatable to western audiences! We have different rules!"

Just as an immediate counterexample, the Persona games got big by being Japanese as fuck - if they had gotten woke at P3 or P4 they probably would have been failures.

 

[lock2k]

NA region culture and politics are fragmented and vast. While I don't agree with the changes he made, it causes no problems lefting that line out instead of in. People mad that the line was out are in the same group than those people that would be mad if it was let in, in my point of view. They have no business saying what someone should or should not do.

Isn't that exactly what he tried to do?