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Adult Swim Talent Want The Network To Cancel Its Alt-Right Comedy Show
- Thread starter Dram
- Start date
- Status
Same here. Love that man's work, and I'm glad to see he's doing the right thing here.
Intheflorsh
Banned
Adult Swim better actually drop MDE because I need more On Cinema in my life.
Curiosity got the best of me so I decided to youtube a clip of the show
I have no idea if this was a segment on the show or what, but this is an actual upload to their official channel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9ePhVDYRiE
Clearly, this is a troupe of assholes. Multiple people harassing Chelsea Clinton at a rally... that's humor/entertainment?
And the comments section makes it clear this guy/program is a beacon of the alt-right. The top comment is from their official channel, upvoted to the moon, and it's disgusting.
I have no idea if this was a segment on the show or what, but this is an actual upload to their official channel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9ePhVDYRiE
Clearly, this is a troupe of assholes. Multiple people harassing Chelsea Clinton at a rally... that's humor/entertainment?
And the comments section makes it clear this guy/program is a beacon of the alt-right. The top comment is from their official channel, upvoted to the moon, and it's disgusting.
Is this sarcasm? How is that funny in any way?
Muppet of a Man
Member
I've just looked into his back catalog of original youtube videos. Seeing where he is starting from is very worrisome. If his only point was to highlight moral grandstanding and condescension from well-off, white corporate liberals and trust fund hipsters, he'd have a point. But his seething resentment and hatred here are only post rationalized in a manner to veil his true intentions: vengeance for not being accepted by these same people. He grew up in the wealthy Boston, Mass and Connecticut suburbs surrounded by these types of people and was an outcast, a basement dweller. His humor has a real vehement tinge of "Nice Guy" syndrome motivating it. Notice he also has a thing with feminists and more liberal leaning women for this reason. Dude is a piece of shit through and through. It's like he's on the edge of being a school shooter, which is ironic because he's been mistakenly associated with mass shootings in the past via hoaxing.
AdventureMike
Member
It always astonishes me how much good came out a shitheel like Mike Lazzo and then he constantly only cares about destroying it to piss people off. Dude had a hand in making one of my favorite programs ever (Space Ghost C2C) and running one of my favorite channels to watch over the years, but then he constantly purposefully cancels things people like because he likes screwing them.
For how popular Rick and Morty is, I bet he'd love to cancel it just to see the tears/anger, but that might be a bridge too far before Turner lays into him. He gets away with it for things like Aqua Teen, Metalocalypse and underfunding the Venture Bros.
For how popular Rick and Morty is, I bet he'd love to cancel it just to see the tears/anger, but that might be a bridge too far before Turner lays into him. He gets away with it for things like Aqua Teen, Metalocalypse and underfunding the Venture Bros.
old manatee
Banned
That Chelsea Clinton clip is creepy as fuck.
old manatee
Banned
KurtSloane
Banned
There is nothing in the show that warrants this pressure to have it cancelled.
Its that simple.
Its that simple.
Atom Heart Mother
Banned
Hey difference strokes for different folks!
Muppet of a Man
Member
Watch some of his older videos (5+ years ago). Dude has some serious issues.
Atom Heart Mother
Banned
people please remember MDE is a troupe and not just Sam Hyde
i dunno but it made me laugh
Fuck this guy, like what the fuck.
ramoisdead
Member
^
They speak the truth. Also check out "Jon Glaser Loves Gear". It is the true spiritual successor to Delocated. The episodes have been amazing so far.
jim-jam bongs
Member
A lot of people disagree, apparently. So perhaps it's not that simple
Watched some of this to see for myself what is supposably alt-right. This was just from the few episodes available online.
Here is what I saw:
- Frequent use of imitation of gay men as a negative. At one point they imply that community leaders in Michigan aren't doing anything in Flint about the water situation because they are too busy "taking it the ass" which then cuts to several scenes of gay men
- Girlfriend dumps a guy so he drives his car into her home presumably killing her. How is this funny exactly?
- Black woman bragging about how she had great income and how about she is working for more disability. Over 40K apparantly
- Woman talking about how she expects certain things from her man when he comes home like doing the dishes. She says she works hard but (I guess the punch line??) is she doesn't work at all and doesn't work construction (work hard like the man) because she is a woman.
- Sketch making fun of "liberal" notions of diversity/unified world and being united in social movement. Trying to sell some sort of psychological method/technique for "throwing away" or dealing with problems.
- One of the concerns/problems within that skit, host clearly imitating what he believes to be a liberal, telling an asian kid that his race (the person speaking who is white) is dead and that the world is being taken over him (the asian kid) and by other "undesirables" and to remember who built it, "the white man, but hey your better". Also in the same one of the problems being homosexuals infiltrating schools and teaching kids about "butt sex"
- Some weird skit where kids are saying the following (all of which are meant to be framed negatively)
- Talking about taking too much concerta (ADHD med) and feeling "different" as a result. Not sure what the point is here.
- How his mom tells him soldiers are hypermasculine, bad for the world, and now he wants to be a marketing executive like his mom rather than a soldier
- How teachers are talking about sex at school and his parents are fine with it
- How his mom says Donald Trump is racist and its true because she says it is
I can't see how anyone here can say it isn't alt right. Its clearly alt right. I watched and read quite of bit of alt right videos/commentary during the gamergate fiasco because I was interested in seeing what the hell was going on with that side. From that and general casual exposure to the alt right that comes with just being on the internet its clear as hell this is alt-right. One of the things I see a ton of is, for lack of better term, talking in a "gay voice" as a way to imitate someone they disagree with or to imply a lack of masculinity. Alt right also likes to focus on children being raised improperly and/or being overmedicated as a sign of social decline as one of their talking points. There is also the whole notion of men not being treated fairly in some way. There is also frequent casual misogyny, racism, and homophobia from the alt right obviously.
Honestly it was just hard filtering through this shit. Overall its just down right bizarre. I had a difficult time seeing how this was supposed to be funny. It was also hard to see exactly what point was trying to be made if any at times. I seriously question the views of anyone that finds this shit appealing in anyway. At the very least they have horrible taste.
Here is what I saw:
- Frequent use of imitation of gay men as a negative. At one point they imply that community leaders in Michigan aren't doing anything in Flint about the water situation because they are too busy "taking it the ass" which then cuts to several scenes of gay men
- Girlfriend dumps a guy so he drives his car into her home presumably killing her. How is this funny exactly?
- Black woman bragging about how she had great income and how about she is working for more disability. Over 40K apparantly
- Woman talking about how she expects certain things from her man when he comes home like doing the dishes. She says she works hard but (I guess the punch line??) is she doesn't work at all and doesn't work construction (work hard like the man) because she is a woman.
- Sketch making fun of "liberal" notions of diversity/unified world and being united in social movement. Trying to sell some sort of psychological method/technique for "throwing away" or dealing with problems.
- One of the concerns/problems within that skit, host clearly imitating what he believes to be a liberal, telling an asian kid that his race (the person speaking who is white) is dead and that the world is being taken over him (the asian kid) and by other "undesirables" and to remember who built it, "the white man, but hey your better". Also in the same one of the problems being homosexuals infiltrating schools and teaching kids about "butt sex"
- Some weird skit where kids are saying the following (all of which are meant to be framed negatively)
- Talking about taking too much concerta (ADHD med) and feeling "different" as a result. Not sure what the point is here.
- How his mom tells him soldiers are hypermasculine, bad for the world, and now he wants to be a marketing executive like his mom rather than a soldier
- How teachers are talking about sex at school and his parents are fine with it
- How his mom says Donald Trump is racist and its true because she says it is
I can't see how anyone here can say it isn't alt right. Its clearly alt right. I watched and read quite of bit of alt right videos/commentary during the gamergate fiasco because I was interested in seeing what the hell was going on with that side. From that and general casual exposure to the alt right that comes with just being on the internet its clear as hell this is alt-right. One of the things I see a ton of is, for lack of better term, talking in a "gay voice" as a way to imitate someone they disagree with or to imply a lack of masculinity. Alt right also likes to focus on children being raised improperly and/or being overmedicated as a sign of social decline as one of their talking points. There is also the whole notion of men not being treated fairly in some way. There is also frequent casual misogyny, racism, and homophobia from the alt right obviously.
Honestly it was just hard filtering through this shit. Overall its just down right bizarre. I had a difficult time seeing how this was supposed to be funny. It was also hard to see exactly what point was trying to be made if any at times. I seriously question the views of anyone that finds this shit appealing in anyway. At the very least they have horrible taste.
Messofanego
Banned
I love Tim and Eric's anti-humor. They have done way funnier skits involving fart jokes than this one that just seems like a campy dude who farts and that's it.
That's a perfect summation.
Messofanego
Banned
What part of calling Chelsea Clinton ugly and dead grandmas is meant to be funny? Eric Andre should school these assholes on how to do comedy at a political rally.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL8Dz4mGv1g
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
All this comedic anxiety.
Show looks like shit
Show looks like shit
DICKS AHOY
Banned
If you take World Peace at face-value I'd say this was well overblown but even ignoring his political alignments it's pretty easy to find non-comedy sketch stuff online with Sam Hyde that I don't think a network would want to associate with depending on how it blows up (or not).
There's only so much post-post-post-post-etc. anti-humor layers you can keep falling back on when there's stuff out there like talking about wanting to fuck up Lina Dunham with the flimsiest of 'oh but only if she attacked me first' pretenses to shield yourself with.
Sucks since the stuff of MDE's I've looked into after the original blow up of [as] having an 'alt right' show can actually be pretty funny in small doses (their Ted X talk and the anime convention talk are hilarious) but you can even see on their channel that once they hit on that alt right audience their whole world view just seemed to get kind of warped. World Peace itself isn't very funny but after watching several episodes I don't see the issue with a right-leaning surrealist comedy sketch show if I didn't know about the sort of people making it. If it's another character performance bit, they've dedicated themselves to it far longer than they have any other character they used to play years earlier.
If the show didn't lead directly into their online-only shenanigans so much I'd probably be able to separate creator and work better but as is I can see why a lot of [as] staff want them out.
There's only so much post-post-post-post-etc. anti-humor layers you can keep falling back on when there's stuff out there like talking about wanting to fuck up Lina Dunham with the flimsiest of 'oh but only if she attacked me first' pretenses to shield yourself with.
Sucks since the stuff of MDE's I've looked into after the original blow up of [as] having an 'alt right' show can actually be pretty funny in small doses (their Ted X talk and the anime convention talk are hilarious) but you can even see on their channel that once they hit on that alt right audience their whole world view just seemed to get kind of warped. World Peace itself isn't very funny but after watching several episodes I don't see the issue with a right-leaning surrealist comedy sketch show if I didn't know about the sort of people making it. If it's another character performance bit, they've dedicated themselves to it far longer than they have any other character they used to play years earlier.
If the show didn't lead directly into their online-only shenanigans so much I'd probably be able to separate creator and work better but as is I can see why a lot of [as] staff want them out.
Maybe they should do a Space Ghost sketch if they want Lazzo to fire them.
This guy is a paper tiger constructed entirely out of red flags.
It's cute that ggers and the alt-right frame shit like this as a fight against freedom of speech.This has nothing to do with the government imposing it's will to silence people and freedom of speech does not protect you from the criticism of others. This guy is a piece of shit and when he reigns it in for comedic purposes he chose to punch down for top keks. He wanted to make people feel uncomfortable and he succeeded. He chose to conduct himself this way and now he is dealing with the consequences... as is the right of everyone involved from [as] staff to [as] talent who want to distance themselves from him to sponsors who got complaints about his show to everyone else who chooses to defend or criticize him. This is all freedom of speech at work. There is no violation taking place here. He is getting pushed out because people don't want him around and if you think we're just picking on him because we don't like him or what he has to say - you're absolutely correct! And we don't have to explain or justify shit beyond that. You don't get a free pass to say and do whatever you want to consequence free just because you want it. If there is merit to your work then hope that you will find enough support you at the venue you saw fit to conduct yourself as an ugly anti social troglodyte. He chose an uphill fight when deciding to do the things he does that some of you may covet so and pushback and controversy is what happens when you flirt with the edge. If he was good at it he would have found more support. Plain and simple. Take Bill Hicks for example. The things he said were hurtful and hateful and violent and profoundly creepy and classiest and (etc) and yet one is considered a genius (who by the way was way more inflammatory by orders of magnitude) while the other is seen as a basement dwelling misanthropic troll. You should be asking yourself why people like Bill Hicks were considered pioneers while MDE is considered gutter trash.
No seriously - this guy is loved. I absolutely adore everything 'bout that angry poet comedian life. This guy right here gets my unending defense because he is actually tries and succeeds at his comedy. This is not an example of him being funny. This is an example of the things that I am willing to look the other way on based on the merits of his other work. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_1VmC_P2Nc
If you are familiar with MDE and still defend him watch the guy's youtube videos. The guy thinks he is above the tenets of proper PR which is the precise thing that is biting him in the ass right now. The sneering little shit wanted to pushed buttons. Well. It's pushing back. Too bad he doesn't have talent to stand on.
It's cute that ggers and the alt-right frame shit like this as a fight against freedom of speech.This has nothing to do with the government imposing it's will to silence people and freedom of speech does not protect you from the criticism of others. This guy is a piece of shit and when he reigns it in for comedic purposes he chose to punch down for top keks. He wanted to make people feel uncomfortable and he succeeded. He chose to conduct himself this way and now he is dealing with the consequences... as is the right of everyone involved from [as] staff to [as] talent who want to distance themselves from him to sponsors who got complaints about his show to everyone else who chooses to defend or criticize him. This is all freedom of speech at work. There is no violation taking place here. He is getting pushed out because people don't want him around and if you think we're just picking on him because we don't like him or what he has to say - you're absolutely correct! And we don't have to explain or justify shit beyond that. You don't get a free pass to say and do whatever you want to consequence free just because you want it. If there is merit to your work then hope that you will find enough support you at the venue you saw fit to conduct yourself as an ugly anti social troglodyte. He chose an uphill fight when deciding to do the things he does that some of you may covet so and pushback and controversy is what happens when you flirt with the edge. If he was good at it he would have found more support. Plain and simple. Take Bill Hicks for example. The things he said were hurtful and hateful and violent and profoundly creepy and classiest and (etc) and yet one is considered a genius (who by the way was way more inflammatory by orders of magnitude) while the other is seen as a basement dwelling misanthropic troll. You should be asking yourself why people like Bill Hicks were considered pioneers while MDE is considered gutter trash.
No seriously - this guy is loved. I absolutely adore everything 'bout that angry poet comedian life. This guy right here gets my unending defense because he is actually tries and succeeds at his comedy. This is not an example of him being funny. This is an example of the things that I am willing to look the other way on based on the merits of his other work. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_1VmC_P2Nc
If you are familiar with MDE and still defend him watch the guy's youtube videos. The guy thinks he is above the tenets of proper PR which is the precise thing that is biting him in the ass right now. The sneering little shit wanted to pushed buttons. Well. It's pushing back. Too bad he doesn't have talent to stand on.
They had an alt right guy on NPR last night. They asked him if he was okay with swastikas. His response was "It is an ancient symbol." The host said, "I will take that as an okay". It was a painful thing to listen to.
Let me stop you right there: this is a completely ridiculous thing to say. Left/progressive folks constantly argue with each other. One of the biggest problems on the left is people spending so much time arguing with each other over minutiae that it can be hard to organize against big picture problems.
As for the "actual critical thought," that's a bold claim to try to make when the right in this country's most important person can barely string a sentence together and still got elected.
Ironically you have come to this conclusion via reinforcement from your right leaning social groups as this is a very common refrain I see from folks who seemingly haven't ever talked to an actual progressive about anything. It's a strawman.
(I do agree that there is a lot to criticize about mainstream center-left political comedy and how trite it often is (holy fuck David Cross is unfunny when doing stand up) but that sentence stuck out like a sore thumb.)
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
It's a joke on how much of the OP is bolded.
I'm not right-wing and don't have any right leaning social groups. I'm talking mostly about comedy culture here, and I think I've totally got a point when I say it's a political echo-chamber where everybody basically agrees and says the same stuff. There obviously are right-wing comedians, but they don't really get on TV or get accepted into the circle, they get filtered out - which is what some people are trying to do with MDE in this situation.
Most people who have heard Sam Hyde is alt-right (which I don't think he is, but he doesn't deny it because he likes fucking with people - take that or leave it), will basically just catalogue all of the surface level infractions on political correctness and dust off their hands - it's a wrap, he's trash! That so far doesn't hurt anybody, although I think it is pretty lazy and self-aggrandising. Don't watch it and move on.
What gets missed in that is that the content is more complex than that. The people behind it are more complex than that, too. I think as far as MDE does have a point when it comes to social justice stuff, it is that you can't just sanctify minorities and women and expect everybody to accept that as reality. It's an exaggeration, and the fractures in that outlook will eventually cause people to turn against it. Basically, it isn't true that the left is has a monopoly on virtue and the more people realise that, the more potential there is for actual conversations to take place.
The typical wisdom is that comedy is okay as long as it punches up. You can make fun of anybody who is above you in the imagined social hierarchy, and you're fine. MDE is one of the rare groups who doesn't adhere to that. I think we need things like for comedy to stay alive. The whole punching up thing isn't an approach designed to get at the most truth, it's just a strategy to make sure the audience stays on your side, to be popular.
Somebody brought up Bill Hicks as an example of somebody who attacked the established with more skill and is widely loved. What I'd say to that is that okay sure, back in the 80's and early 90's there was more of a monoculture and his targets of the christian right and advertising executives were often the ones dictating the terms of conversation. In 2016, that only remains the case in certain parts society. We've got a polyculture now, where people splinter off into areas where their ideas won't be challenged. Without making a judgment on the worth of any of them individually, I think that process is a problem. I think any attempts by anybody to shake that up are a good thing, regardless of the intentions of the attempt.
Is Inuyasha still running?
It's 2016, they're the same thing now.
Hyde is an entertainer. His existence as a public persona is superfluous and relies on the people willing to keep him around. He had a duty to his audience/ venue that he risked losing in challenging the sacred cows. He's also an asshole. Hicks was banned from TV and US venues so he had to take root wherever people would have him, which for a time lead him to the UK. His story was cut short, he died young, but my point is that people eventually did indeed support him. If Sam Hyde wishes to conduct himself in the way he does then he is going to have to find outside support. He lost his platform due to reasons that were entirely up to him. The fault isn't on society for not supporting him. That is based solely on his own merits.
I agree - sometimes shaking things up is necessary to put it in perspective. Lot of comedians/ entertainers do that. Gotta be good at it though or else your message gets bogged down by the lack of redeeming qualities. His message is that of a petty troll that people aren't willing to fight for. Or, if they are, they should. Give him money, prop him up, tell him to start a patreon like so many people going independent has. Just don't try to convince us that we need to go out of our way to indulge him.
I agree - sometimes shaking things up is necessary to put it in perspective. Lot of comedians/ entertainers do that. Gotta be good at it though or else your message gets bogged down by the lack of redeeming qualities. His message is that of a petty troll that people aren't willing to fight for. Or, if they are, they should. Give him money, prop him up, tell him to start a patreon like so many people going independent has. Just don't try to convince us that we need to go out of our way to indulge him.
thehypocrite
Member
If you see his videos is clear he's racist and full of anger. I don't know if his show needs to be cancelled because of that though as I don't watch it.
Is it hate speech? What do the laws state?
Is it hate speech? What do the laws state?
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Yup
Gun Animal
Member
wORLD🌎✌PEACe is the only good show on television, with the possible exception of Eric Andre.
Dicktatorship
Junior Member
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8veIPq_evlQ
Sam Hyde steps out of character for the first time (that I've ever seen) to address the rumors. Says there were no Swastikas in the shows, and that the Adult Swim censor was Jewish and that they'd never be stupid enough to put that in there and risk their big break.
Sam Hyde really isn't alt-right you guys, I promise. At the most he dislikes liberals like the South Park guys, but he's made fun of redpilled people in the past as well.
EDIT: Why the fuck are we taking Buzzfeed Co.'s word for this shit? REALLY?
EDIT 2: He's not political,and likes Bernie Sanders. Sooooooooooooo racist, right?
Sam Hyde steps out of character for the first time (that I've ever seen) to address the rumors. Says there were no Swastikas in the shows, and that the Adult Swim censor was Jewish and that they'd never be stupid enough to put that in there and risk their big break.
Sam Hyde really isn't alt-right you guys, I promise. At the most he dislikes liberals like the South Park guys, but he's made fun of redpilled people in the past as well.
EDIT: Why the fuck are we taking Buzzfeed Co.'s word for this shit? REALLY?
EDIT 2: He's not political,and likes Bernie Sanders. Sooooooooooooo racist, right?
he's a bad person, stop defending him.
crustchump
Member
he's always "in character" lol and the video you linked he literally starts screaming "we won" in reference to trump?
i still don't think that the adult swim lineup really matters at all, MDE will keep doing their thing regardless, but seriously guys the murky fascist political angle is sort of the point with a lot of the humor here. i agree that you don't need buzzfeed to spend time on sam or MDE to figure any of this stuff out.
4 is a cutie
Banned
no, i believe that ended awhile ago
Dicktatorship
Junior Member
I've been over this in a previous thread, he's into performance art and was the mentor for the Brianna Wu "assassin" who had been in character as a 9/11 and 2pac conspiracy theorist for a small audience for 4 years. He only broke character when Wu took him seriously.
We really need to cut it out with the witch hunts.
EDIT: He's only fucking with touchy liberals and is obviously being facetious. "You got 8 years of Trump!" He's only been elected for 4. This is clearly a joke.
crustchump
Member
i agree with you that he plays everything up for jokes no doubt, but i disagree that he's ever really "breaking character," with this video or even the response to the jace connors "parkourdude" shit. like if you read the comments that sam and jace give to buzzfeed about that assassin thing, it's clear that they're still fucking with everyone by saying "boy gosh we'll never do anything like this again
"i don't think anyone's really advocating for a witch hunt here. just commenting on the news that some extremely weird and ironic comedians might have a show canceled because it turns out they are actually too weird and ironic for mainstream television.
LudicrousSpeed
Member
You're not going to get far describing bigotry from a member of an online white supremacist movement as "weird and ironic".
crustchump
Member
you're right there, i really do think that the whole group is primarily wed to a fascist, conservative, and hateful viewpoint and i wouldn't ever argue against that.
it's just the defense of their brand im seeing the most online these days is that it simply is "too weird for you" or too ironic for someone without a sense of humor to understand. i think that is true for some of their humor, but in the end they are still trying to capitalize off the hitler youth for hipsters aspirations that some of their biggest fans have.
Uh.... That sounds awful and downright scary to be honest.
Sounds like terrible people. That's not punching up, that's punching down to a point that people could easily take it seriously and find them life threatening. If that's found funny, that says something more about these people making these kinds of jokes and the people who enjoy it.
Spent a good chunk of the day immersing myself in more of his work. After getting grilled by supposed allies on the left I decided to re-calibrate my alt-right meter and... well... I am no longer convinced he is the poster child I thought he was though he does sing the same tunes at times.
Not as bad as I thought. Hard to tell when he is on or off in the message but he really needs to have a more easily read "off" as well as a heavy dose of self deprecation/ humility to stop rubbing people the wrong way. He makes no allowances for the benefit of the doubt. Even though I understand his humor a bit better the added exposure reinforced the fact that he is indeed an asshole, Which is his right... just as much as the criticism is ours.
He goes in hard in a way that is tailor made to rub people the wrong way... and he succeeded. He is getting rewarded with the very responses he sought out. Not sure what he else he was expecting.
He go in for the kill when punching down. Apparently his conception for the 'up' is the liberal elite, poc, and religious minorities. They need to be taken down a peg and the left needs to be torn down and rebuilt just as the right supposedly has. A stance that will most assuredly convince noone to come onto his side that already isn't.
I don't like him. I don't like his work. I do find it interesting and I am intrigued to see if it will evolve.
Not as bad as I thought. Hard to tell when he is on or off in the message but he really needs to have a more easily read "off" as well as a heavy dose of self deprecation/ humility to stop rubbing people the wrong way. He makes no allowances for the benefit of the doubt. Even though I understand his humor a bit better the added exposure reinforced the fact that he is indeed an asshole, Which is his right... just as much as the criticism is ours.
He goes in hard in a way that is tailor made to rub people the wrong way... and he succeeded. He is getting rewarded with the very responses he sought out. Not sure what he else he was expecting.
He go in for the kill when punching down. Apparently his conception for the 'up' is the liberal elite, poc, and religious minorities. They need to be taken down a peg and the left needs to be torn down and rebuilt just as the right supposedly has. A stance that will most assuredly convince noone to come onto his side that already isn't.
I don't like him. I don't like his work. I do find it interesting and I am intrigued to see if it will evolve.
crustchump
Member
grey wolf nation
- Status