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News Spoilers All The Last of Us 2 leaks/spoilers in here and nowhere else.

Explosive Zombie

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Looks like the message of the day is that in a zombie filled apocalypse, everyone's choice of career becomes fitness trainer or janitor. But only a select few are lucky enough to work at a Gold's Gym in a secret location.
I don't totally get this sentiment towards the game. As a writer myself I've often considered doing zombie outbreak stories where there are whole swaths of the world that defended themselves so well they live almost like they used to. One of my issues with the genre from its inception was the idea that the military can't handle slow-moving enemies that only attack with their hands and teeth. (Though Shaun of the Dead and 28 Days Later already sort of hit on what I'm talking about I feel like there's still room in the genre for some of these ideas to be explored more).
 
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I don't totally get this sentiment towards the game. As a writer myself I've often considered doing zombie outbreak stories where there are whole swaths of the world that defended themselves so well they live almost like they used to. One of my issues with the genre from its inception was the idea that the military can't handle slow-moving enemies that only attack with their hands and teeth. (Though Shaun of the Dead and 28 Days Later already sort of hit on what I'm talking about I feel like there's still room in the genre for some of these ideas to be explored more).
The point you made about the military is something that has gone on forever in media. Somehow every police force, SWAT team and US army has trouble taking down King Bad Guy. But a lone wolfer with that usual combo of being suave and somehow being educated in using every weapon and vehicle made ever will win.

And if it's two actors working in tandem. One is clean cut guy. One is street smart guy. There's never two people who act or have similar personalities.
 
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Explosive Zombie

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The point you made about the military is something that has gone on forever in media. Somehow every police force, SWAT team and US army has trouble taking down King Bad Guy. But a lone wolfer with that usual combo of being suave and somehow being educated in using every weapon and vehicle made ever will win.

And if it's two actors working in tandem. One is clean cut guy. One is street smart guy. There's never two people who act or have similar personalities.
I think you're talking about something else entirely.
 

RedVIper

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You said I was wrong in another thread about a fake leak going around.
I said you were wrong that people were mad based on fake leaks

And you fucking are.

There are real leaks.

People don't like the leaks.

Now leave me alone mate.
 

Explosive Zombie

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I said you were wrong that people were mad based on fake leaks

And you fucking are.

There are real leaks.

People don't like the leaks.

Now leave me alone mate.
Some of the anger is over stuff that either has no confirmation via the leaks or is straight up disproven via the leaks, actually. There's not really a lot to get angry over in the actual leaks and even what is there to be angry over is so divorced from context it's hard to know why people are so upset.
 

RedVIper

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Some of the anger is over stuff that either has no confirmation via the leaks or is straight up disproven via the leaks, actually. There's not really a lot to get angry over in the actual leaks and even what is there to be angry over is so divorced from context it's hard to know why people are so upset.
Look, I really can't bring myself to care enough about this game to have an argument with you guys.

So let's just drop it okay.
 

DForce

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I said you were wrong that people were mad based on fake leaks

And you fucking are.

There are real leaks.

People don't like the leaks.

Now leave me alone mate.
WRONG.

I said most people complaining about how bad the STORY is are based on fake leaks.

I've seen enough leaks and spoiler discussion videos to know that most people complaining about how bad the story are based on a fake 4chan leak.

My god. You're taking my post out of context now. lol
 

DForce

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If the whole plot hasn't been spoiled since nobody has actually played it yet, how do you know Ellie doesn't die?

One video shows her and Dina with their faces bashed in and it fades to black like it's over.
You're not paying attention. The story says they die during the fight, but that is NOT true. So everything about that leak is false. There's nothing else to be said.
 

RedVIper

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WRONG.

I said most people complaining about how bad the STORY is are based on fake leaks.




My god. You're taking my post out of context now. lol
For the love of god, leave me alone you weirdo.

People are upset about the real leaks, now fuck off.
 
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You're not paying attention. The story says they die during the fight, but that is NOT true. So everything about that leak is false. There's nothing else to be said.
How do you know they don't die if nobody has seen/shown what happens after that big fight scene?
 
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Explosive Zombie

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How do you know they don't die if nobody has seen/shown what happens after that big fight scene?
Wait are you serious? Uh... spoilers?
In the leak where Dina is trying to tell Ellie not to go after Abby because they have a kid now you can see Dina has a scar from the arrow Lev shot into her during that scene, not to mention her pregnancy is part of the reason why Abby is convinced not to kill her.
 

Woggleman

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It's very possible that that gym is somewhere underground that the remaining fireflies use as a base. If it is in some kind of underground bunker it could be in better condition than most other infrastructure.
 

DForce

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My guess is that in the end, Ellie will spare Abby's life.

Think they want to show us that there's no true villain in this story.
 

Explosive Zombie

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My guess is that in the end, Ellie will spare Abby's life.

Think they want to show us that there's no true villain in this story.
I'm the opposite, Ellie will brutally murder Abby and you'll feel even shittier than you did at the end of TLOU!
 

Woggleman

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Truth be told Abby and Ellie are very similar in the sense that they both lost their father or father figure and are driven to murderous rage because of it. It shows two opposing people who both believe they are the victim and the other is the villain and you play it from both perspectives, I see why some people would not like it but it makes sense.
 

Explosive Zombie

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Truth be told Abby and Ellie are very similar in the sense that they both lost their father or father figure and are driven to murderous rage because of it. It shows two opposing people who both believe they are the victim and the other is the villain and you play it from both perspectives, I see why some people would not like it but it makes sense.
That's why people would go "muh cycle of revenge" (to be clear, putting "muh" before anything makes that thing stupid).
 

Jtibh

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The main ones who are mad about this are the ones who already hated ND games for being so called movie games. I am sorry but it is true. Many of them were not going to buy it anyway. There are a small section of gamers who think that a game having a story and cinematics somehow takes away from the gameplay and Sony have been increasingly the target of that anger. Combine that with anger over so called wokeness and you have the backlash to TLOU2.
Youbwill see at release that its not the wokeness that ruins this game. Its something that will turn everyone off. I am a firm beliver that you will play abby in the second half of the game.
This is stupid. Ita ok to kill of joel and play only as ellie.
The winter section with ellie was to me the best game experience i had in a very but very long time. It was intense it was brutal it was great.
But i know jack shit about abby , there is no connection to her from the first game and it should have been made as a dlc or part 3

Hell advertise the game as part2 with ellie and part 3 as abby in an all in one release.

And yes you are right i dont get the movie game stigma. God of war is called a movie game yet here you have 40 plus hours of game with a couple hours of cut scene.
Uncharted 2 had ton of good gameplay so had tlou.
Only cuz its story driven and not open world it doesnt make it a walk sim or a movie game.
These people never played any of them from start to finish, they spent the first hour where yes its about building something up before you get into the action.
These are the same people who call days gone a movie game yet i had the most fun with it last year. By miles its not a movie game, might as well call gta5 or rdr2 a movie game.

What qualifies as a movie walking sim is the order and no one will convince me ever that its a good game.
This is the only example i can come up with that fits the profile.
 
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Woggleman

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People have the right to their opinion but I loved the gameplay of TLOU. I beat it on grounded last year and it was one of the most intense experiences I ever had.
I agree about Days Gone. It was a seriously underrated game.
 
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Jtibh

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People have the right to their opinion but I loved the gameplay of TLOU. I beat it on grounded last year and it was one of the most intense experiences I ever had.
I agree about Days Gone. It was a seriously underrated game.
Tlou had excellent gameplay and as i pointed out winter section is something very special. That was a big surprise and it was so intense it will alwasy be remembered by me.
Overall a fantastic game.

Yet i hear people calling it a movie game like come on thats just ignorance
 

Claus Grimhildyr

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As much as list wars can bore me I do wonder what the numerous titles are from each that are on par or better than what ND has done. In the end it's just "my viewpoint better than yours!" but I'd still be interested in what games you mean. And why, is it the actual story, how it's told? For me TLOU isn't the benchmark for storytelling in games because I prefer stories that are told entirely through the gaming experience, any game using any cut-scenes is seemingly admitting they want to make a movie to some extent, something like a Half-Life game (in particular 2) where they create an exciting narrative without removing your control over the camera is pretty much the bar for me. Ignoring my game design principles, though, TLOU gave me something truly compelling that made me not just think afterward but feel. Few games got me as emotional. As far as game stories go it could be my favorite, Red Dead Redemption would be up near it.

All of that said, I want games to tell their stories using the medium and I feel like because it's meant to be a transformative medium the stories should transform as well, games with fixed story-lines annoy me on principle even if I often look past that problem.
Understandable. I am not trying to argue against the fact that some think Naughty Dog is good at what they do. I just disagree with the mindset that they are the only ones in the industry that have done what they have done and well at that (like a few have argued here and elsewhere, especially the egregious claim by the voice actor). I can't see how Naughty Dog has a "more established pedigree than anyone else in the industry".

Just a handful:

Fallout 1 and 2. Mass Effect. Baulder's Gate. Planescape: Torment. Final Fantasy (VI and IX in particular). Bioshock, System Shock, Deus Ex, Yakuza, Dragon Quest, NieR, Valkyria Chronicles, The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky, Mother (2 and 3 in particular), Mana, and more. All of these games have told stories that people have remembered and loved for *years*, many for well over a decade or more. With gameplay that still holds up, stories and characters that are unforgettable.

Given your personal loves of gaming, I want to highlight one series of games in particular. Through the Looking Glass's Thief and Thief II tell the story through level design without having to interrupt the player with "cinematic" moments in the middle of a mission, while also using it to showcase how Garret feels at that moment. The games flow wonderfully with an ever evolving and growing Garret that experiences character growth, both through the game play and narrative. I would highly suggest you watch this if you want to see someone who is far more eloquent than me explain it.


And this was my whole point. There are studios who have far more impressive pedigrees that have done what Naughty Dog has done as good if not better years before they did.
 
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Explosive Zombie

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Understandable. I am not trying to argue against the fact that some think Naughty Dog is good at what they do. I just disagree with the mindset that they are the only ones in the industry that have done what they have done and well at that (like a few have argued here and elsewhere, especially the egregious claim by the voice actor). I can't see how Naughty Dog has a "more established pedigree than anyone else in the industry".

Just a handful:

Fallout 1 and 2. Mass Effect. Baulder's Gate. Planescape: Torment. Final Fantasy (VI and IX in particular). Bioshock, System Shock, Deus Ex, Yakuza, Dragon Quest, NieR, Valkyria Chronicles, The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky, Mother (2 and 3 in particular), Mana, and more. All of these games have told stories that people have remembered and loved for *years*, many for well over a decade or more. With gameplay that still holds up, stories and characters that are unforgettable.

Given your personal loves of gaming, I want to highlight one series of games in particular. Through the Looking Glass's Thief and Thief II tell the story through level design without having to interrupt the player with "cinematic" moments in the middle of a mission, while also using it to showcase how Garret feels at that moment. The games flow wonderfully with an ever evolving and growing Garret that experiences character growth, both through the game play and narrative. I would highly suggest you watch this if you want to see someone who is far more eloquent than me explain it.


And this was my whole point. There are studios who have far more impressive pedigrees that have done what Naughty Dog has done as good if not better years before they did.
I think part of why some would consider the pedigree of ND to be so good is that for some of us they haven't had a bad game and arguably just get better by the game. I couldn't say who has the most impressive gaming pedigree of all the game studios but I'd probably have Naughty Dog in my personal top 5 or 10 at the very least. I do think it's a weird claim to make considering their best stuff is within the last 10 years, clearly there are studios that have been going for much longer, to me it's akin' to saying "no director in Hollywood has a better pedigree than Christopher Nolan." While I personally think his filmography is perfect and he'd be among my favs I'd consider such a claim to be a bit much without seeing where his career goes. Putting it into the context of a voice actor saying it I'd assume he doesn't view the art form the same way we do, in the same sense that I'd expect an actor to look at movies more for the performances than for direction Troy isn't just going to have a bias for the people he's worked with but a bias towards games that make better use of voice-acting (potentially). Some of the games you listed are games that tell their story more through text than actual acting, though it'd be an ignorant stance to ignore them due to that I can't say I'd be surprised if Troy was doing that. I do think if we stick more along genre lines that what Last of Us did becomes more impressive, in the same sense I found the RDR games so impressive because they were Rockstar games, (though I did like GTA IV and V's stories but more as dark satires). I will also say it's interesting you don't list many if any games that are more recent, though part of your point was the lasting power of their narratives so I understand that but are there current games that you think are outdoing something like TLOU from a narrative standpoint? Maybe it's just the sorts of games I play but besides RDR 2 I haven't very often sat to play a game thinking "can't wait to see where this story goes!" and that is how I feel about TLOU II. Though, that could partially just be me not trusting video games to have engaging narratives, as much as I love video games I tend to care more about satisfying gameplay loops than the stories.

Man, I'm kinda rambling here. I do need to watch that Thief video, though, never got into those games (besides beating one simply called Thief on PS4). A better way to sum up my thoughts would be that I think you have a point but I also don't expect any game to be more narratively compelling in 2020 than TLOU II.
 
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For the love of god, leave me alone you weirdo.

People are upset about the real leaks, now fuck off.
No, alot of leaks are assumed by gameplay leaks.

I didnt buy The Last of Us because of the story. I didnt even know the story was good. I bought it because of the gameplay demo at E3.
 

Woggleman

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I actually bought TLOU is something to tide me over until GTA V. I didn't know much about it and it ended being my game of the year and one of my favorite games of all time while GTA V was the only time Rockstar ever disappointed me.
 
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JerryinSoCal

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What's with the reversed video? You can see his God of War plaque is mirrored.

And I thought Druckmann's damage control was bad.

This Baker video has to be worst desperate plea from a hipster I've ever seen on video. Ok I get it. Another person out of the woodwork who is affiliated with the game coming out defending it.

"Dude, dude, dude you really think a game can be spoiled in a couple screen shots?"

Hey dude, dude, dude bro wearing a hat indoors. You forgot about the 2 hours worth of leaked videos, pages of written leaks and even Sony and ND had to come out sand say the next day they were leaks.
He does a great job with his voice work (other than UC4, he was terrible there) but I've always found him irritating when I see him interviewed, he just looks like that typical drama class guy who thinks he gets what everyone else doesn't lol.
 

JerryinSoCal

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If the whole plot hasn't been spoiled since nobody has actually played it yet, how do you know Ellie doesn't die?

One video shows her and Dina with their faces bashed in and it fades to black like it's over.
That latest trailer leads me to believe some of the newer leaks are true and that the original ones lacked any sense of context and also may have had some outdated info, remember Schreier's story about how a lot of the game had to be changed? it could be that some of the stuff that leaked was from that time period. Someone posted a pic from the trailer that basically shows Ellie attacking Abby, you see the same red bracelet on the arm, clearly they don't show Abby's whole face or body but it's not a stretch to think that's her.

As far as things like the Christian cult I think people took that out of context too, she's passing through their land they aren't just coming after her because she's gay but that's how many people portrayed that faction early on.
 

Claus Grimhildyr

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I think part of why some would consider the pedigree of ND to be so good is that for some of us they haven't had a bad game and arguably just get better by the game. I couldn't say who has the most impressive gaming pedigree of all the game studios but I'd probably have Naughty Dog in my personal top 5 or 10 at the very least. I do think it's a weird claim to make considering their best stuff is within the last 10 years, clearly there are studios that have been going for much longer, to me it's akin' to saying "no director in Hollywood has a better pedigree than Christopher Nolan." While I personally think his filmography is perfect and he'd be among my favs I'd consider such a claim to be a bit much without seeing where his career goes. Putting it into the context of a voice actor saying it I'd assume he doesn't view the art form the same way we do, in the same sense that I'd expect an actor to look at movies more for the performances than for direction Troy isn't just going to have a bias for the people he's worked with but a bias towards games that make better use of voice-acting (potentially). Some of the games you listed are games that tell their story more through text than actual acting, though it'd be an ignorant stance to ignore them due to that I can't say I'd be surprised if Troy was doing that. I do think if we stick more along genre lines that what Last of Us did becomes more impressive, in the same sense I found the RDR games so impressive because they were Rockstar games, (though I did like GTA IV and V's stories but more as dark satires). I will also say it's interesting you don't list many if any games that are more recent, though part of your point was the lasting power of their narratives so I understand that but are there current games that you think are outdoing something like TLOU from a narrative standpoint? Maybe it's just the sorts of games I play but besides RDR 2 I haven't very often sat to play a game thinking "can't wait to see where this story goes!" and that is how I feel about TLOU II. Though, that could partially just be me not trusting video games to have engaging narratives, as much as I love video games I tend to care more about satisfying gameplay loops than the stories.

Man, I'm kinda rambling here. I do need to watch that Thief video, though, never got into those games (besides beating one simply called Thief on PS4). A better way to sum up my thoughts would be that I think you have a point but I also don't expect any game to be more narratively compelling in 2020 than TLOU II.
Yes, that was my point by choosing mostly older titles. Games that have done what TLOU has done before it did it, but as good if not better.

Also yes, please go play some of these games. Thief (2014) is a decent game in its own right, but it is a shit THIEF game. It lacks the level design that loops in on itself. It is incredibly restrictive in its design, and tries to oversimplify things that shouldn't need to be oversimplified. The original games make you truly feel like a master thief with level design that further bolsters that feeling and progression. Everything feels natural and organic to the world, characters, and overall design.
 
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Silent Duck

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Truth be told Abby and Ellie are very similar in the sense that they both lost their father or father figure and are driven to murderous rage because of it. It shows two opposing people who both believe they are the victim and the other is the villain and you play it from both perspectives, I see why some people would not like it but it makes sense.
So, in a nutshell...
 

Woggleman

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I will ask. Besides the mere existence of gay and strong women characters in the game how exactly is it a woke agenda? I see nothing about Ellie or any other character whatsoever giving some big gay speech or feminist sermon. I see pretty much no mention of hot button political issues so where exactly is this agenda? I am not getting it.
 

Anya7890

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I will ask. Besides the mere existence of gay and strong women characters in the game how exactly is it a woke agenda? I see nothing about Ellie or any other character whatsoever giving some big gay speech or feminist sermon. I see pretty much no mention of hot button political issues so where exactly is this agenda? I am not getting it.
Welcome to me asking the same fucking question for the last two weeks.
 

Explosive Zombie

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I will ask. Besides the mere existence of gay and strong women characters in the game how exactly is it a woke agenda? I see nothing about Ellie or any other character whatsoever giving some big gay speech or feminist sermon. I see pretty much no mention of hot button political issues so where exactly is this agenda? I am not getting it.
If you're okay with spoilers I'll go through what people think is woke about it...

-Religious cult - The spoilers don't prove beyond a reasonable doubt this cult is some statement about religious people, they definitely don't prove they're homophobic, but they're still brought up as a point of contention for some reason
-Abby killing Joel - This apparently means women are better than men without us seeing how it went down besides the end of it, the suggestion seems to be Abby had a whole team vs just Joel, though, so it's a weird thing to be mad about. (some people just hate that she killed Joel at all and believe that her killing Joel is the game condemning Joel's actions)
-Ellie is in a gay romance - This happened first in Left Behind but I guess they were hoping it was just a phase she'd grow out of
-Abby is buff - At first people wanted explanations for this, when one of the leaks seemed to hint at one they seemed to get... more angry? Suddenly talk was about the realism of the gym and its usage instead of being happy the game cared enough to explain this? Also for a while it was put forward that she was trans, some did it as a joke others actually meant it.
-Ellie and Abby are less attractive - Though they believe it's unrealistic to get buff in a zombie apocalypse looking your best is perfectly acceptable realism.
 

kunonabi

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People have the right to their opinion but I loved the gameplay of TLOU. I beat it on grounded last year and it was one of the most intense experiences I ever had.
I agree about Days Gone. It was a seriously underrated game.
Days Gone was more fun than I was expecting but there was just too much goddamn stuff to do. Maybe if I hadn't just finished 100%ing Xenoblade X, BotW, and MGSV I'd have been more receptive to it.
 
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Anya7890

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If you're okay with spoilers I'll go through what people think is woke about it...

-Religious cult - The spoilers don't prove beyond a reasonable doubt this cult is some statement about religious people, they definitely don't prove they're homophobic, but they're still brought up as a point of contention for some reason
-Abby killing Joel - This apparently means women are better than men without us seeing how it went down besides the end of it, the suggestion seems to be Abby had a whole team vs just Joel, though, so it's a weird thing to be mad about. (some people just hate that she killed Joel at all and believe that her killing Joel is the game condemning Joel's actions)
-Ellie is in a gay romance - This happened first in Left Behind but I guess they were hoping it was just a phase she'd grow out of
-Abby is buff - At first people wanted explanations for this, when one of the leaks seemed to hint at one they seemed to get... more angry? Suddenly talk was about the realism of the gym and its usage instead of being happy the game cared enough to explain this? Also for a while it was put forward that she was trans, some did it as a joke others actually meant it.
-Ellie and Abby are less attractive - Though they believe it's unrealistic to get buff in a zombie apocalypse looking your best is perfectly acceptable realism.
1. Religious cults have been a thing in games for like ever? Silent hill is bit around a creepy cult! People arguing this is woke is some dumb shit
2. yeah, this is extremely weird to be mad at as it was a whole group vs. just Abby. But to say the game is condemning Joel’s actions is really fucking dumb? At worst it’s just Joel suffer the repercussions of his actions. Nobody saying it was right or wrong, just that this is a resuit.
3. I’ll touch on this further that I believe it’s also connected to Dina coming along for Ellie’s revenge trip, it’s no different then Nate & Elena, but because it’s two chicks it’s much woke agenda.
4. oh lord, the gym explanation people are reeeeing about. It was stated in multiple interviews that the organization that Abby is apart has been in Seattle for 15 years and in control of it. So it makes sense that they would show evidence of having solid roots in the city such as electricity and thus a gym. not that insane.
5. that’s a dumb argument.
 
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Grinchy

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This is the last picture I have on my imgur account that hasn't been pulled down for DMCA reasons. I wonder how long it'll last if I post it. I can't believe they are going after random image sharing accounts :messenger_tears_of_joy:

They did it lol. They pulled it down too.

I was surprised they pulled one down that didn't even show Abby's face. It was just her body with barely any background and they decided it couldn't be shared.
 

Jon Neu

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Welcome to me asking the same fucking question for the last two weeks.
Yeah, it’s not like we have put all the statements of Neil Cuckmann (the creator of the game) saying that he has a political agenda in it’s game. Political agenda based on Anita Sarkeesian (crazy third wave feminist).

But somehow you all become fucking blind at those precise moments and still keep asking the same loaded questions trying to convince yourselves that there isn’t anything political about the game.

I wonder who is going to be the next asking the question completely ignoring everything the creator of the game has already publicly stated?

Two decades and still didn’t got an answer about this supposed woke agenda :messenger_smirking:
 
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Anya7890

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Yeah, it’s not like we have put all the statements of Neil Cuckmann (the creator of the game) saying that he has a political agenda in it’s game.
Uh? what agenda is that?
Political agenda based on Anita Sarkeesian (crazy third wave feminist).
He has not talked about that lady in like 84 years, but sure! She’s the evil dark mother behind him. Right.
But somehow you all become fucking blind at those precise moments and still keep asking the same loaded questions trying to convince yourselves that there isn’t anything political about the game.
I mean? What is political about this game? The revenge quest? Dina going on her trip with Ellie? The evil cult people? I’m still confused what political agenda is being pushed?
I wonder who is going to be the next asking the question completely ignoring everything the creator of the game has already publicly stated?
dude? I have seen almost every interview by Neil and I know what he said about the evil internet lady 300 years ago, but I’m still confused as to what thus woke agenda is that in the last of us part 2. I have seen all of the footage twice mind you. What am I supposed to see?
Two decades and still didn’t got an answer about this supposed woke agenda
would be nice if someone gave a straightforward answer to what this woke agenda is.
 
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Woggleman

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Simply meeting with Anita Sarkeesian a few years ago does not mean that she runs the game. She also hates violence in games and this franchise certainly is violent. People need to stop making her out to be some all powerful entity.
 

Claus Grimhildyr

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Simply meeting with Anita Sarkeesian a few years ago does not mean that she runs the game. She also hates violence in games and this franchise certainly is violent. People need to stop making her out to be some all powerful entity.
Her influence has directly affected the end result of the product. That means she has power.

What part of that do you not seem to understand?
 
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Anya7890

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Her influence has directly affected the end result of the product. That means she has power.

What part of that do you not seem to understand?
Where is the proof of that!? WHERE!? Like just because he used her videos as part of his research on the first game 84 years ago means nothing in relation to the second. The only research Neil has mentioned is inspiration coming from the paradise lost documentary in talking about how this violent crime happened and how people wanted justice.
 

Claus Grimhildyr

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Where is the proof of that!? WHERE!? Like just because he used her videos as part of his research on the first game 84 years ago means nothing in relation to the second. The only research Neil has mentioned is inspiration coming from the paradise lost documentary in talking about how this violent crime happened and how people wanted justice.
Proof? You just stated the proof. He used her videos to directly influence the design. Her influence is still shown from the leaks.

Then again, I don't expect you to care as you are clearly just an Era alt trolling everyone.
 

Anya7890

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Proof? You just stated the proof. He used her videos to directly influence the design. Her influence is still shown from the leaks.

Then again, I don't expect you to care as you are clearly just an Era alt trolling everyone.
He also used two books along with her research.
 

PanzerAzel

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Oct 31, 2019
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I will ask. Besides the mere existence of gay and strong women characters in the game how exactly is it a woke agenda? I see nothing about Ellie or any other character whatsoever giving some big gay speech or feminist sermon. I see pretty much no mention of hot button political issues so where exactly is this agenda? I am not getting it.
You people continually ask this, seemingly oblivious as to the greater context, always focusing on the micro instead of taking things as a collective.

I'll take a few of the replies to elaborate as to why: (bolded my replies)

-Religious cult -not sure on this, I've heard this has been a debunked rumor? Can't say for certain.

-Abby killing Joel - This doesn't bother me in the slightest, and is, IMO, indicative of nothing.

-Ellie is in a gay romance - not a problem, but people are apparently so clueless that they can't recognize the difference between using one's sexual orientation to build character development (such as was done in Left Behind) as opposed to making her orientation the central focus of two of TLoU 2's trailers. Rest assured, the game will be filled with scenes to pull attention to nothing but Ellie's orientation. Nobody honestly cares, but I do care when people defend it being shoved in my face making it a point to care. "Ooooo, Ellie is gay, so offensive". No, just completely irrelevant. Who gives a fuck? Seemingly only those who demand we do for equality and representation points.

-Abby is buff - this is done for nothing more than to appeal to the androgynous in the appeasement of the trans community. That is an agenda. Abby's physique is absurd to humor in such narrative context, women who look like that live at the gym daily, they dope, they consume a large caloric intake, and it is wholly implausible in a story where she is consumed with vengeance in a post-apocalyptic world. Females who look like Abby (such as her reference model, Colleen Fotsch) revolve their lives around fighting against their biology daily to attain such physical traits. Simply tossing a gym into the game is, at best, a laughable attempt to grant narrative justification for such a degree of physicality. The only way it's excused is under the laughably delusioned ideology of the SJWs who can't fathom that an agenda is at play, especially when taken in light of a studio who has made no illusion of the fact they adhere to it proudly.

-Ellie and Abby are less attractive - Haven't noticed this.

People who are befuddled as to where this so-called imaginary agenda come from always appear to be looking at the game sans evidence given by greater context. Look at ND, look at Druckmann's statements, look at those he has embraced (such as Ian Alexander), look his support of Sarkeesian, look at the toxic statements she (and Neil) have made.

There is abundant evidence an agenda is at play. What evidence can you guys provide that there is not aside a predilection towards an ideology you agree with and replying with lol emojis?
 
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Anya7890

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-Ellie is in a gay romance - not a problem, but people are apparently so clueless that they can't recognize the difference between using one's sexual orientation to build character development (such as was done in Left Behind) as opposed to making her orientation the central focus of two of TLoU 2's trailers. Rest assured, the game will be filled with scenes to pull attention to nothing but Ellie's orientation. Nobody honestly cares, but I do care when people defend it being shoved in my face making it a point to care. "Ooooo, Ellie is gay, so offensive". No, just completely irrelevant. Who gives a fuck? Seemingly only those who demand we do for equality and representation points.
So let me get this straight: ellie being discovered that she likes chick and having her love interest died like five minutes later is character development(it was) is fine, but it’s being shoved in people’s faces when she has a full fledged live girlfriend That’s going on her adventure with her in the second game as the relationship is developing, despite the fact that naughty dog did this previously with Nate and Elena. Okay, sure.
 

Strategize

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Point is, it literally doesn't matter if Neil has an agenda for making strong female characters. Because that agenda doesn't make the game any better or worse.

If it were "strong" as in "perfect Mary sues" then that's a problem, but it's not. Ellie and Abby are both mentally ill, morally corrupt people, willing to do terrible things, and the narrative highlights them as such.

Going "LOOK LOOK AGENDA, HE SAID IT, STOP DENYING" is absolutely pointless, because most people will probably look at it and go "Okay? So what".
 
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PanzerAzel

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So let me get this straight: ellie being discovered that she likes chick and having her love interest died like five minutes later is character development(it was) is fine, but it’s being shoved in people’s faces when she has a full fledged live girlfriend That’s going on her adventure with her in the second game as the relationship is developing, despite the fact that naughty dog did this previously with Nate and Elena. Okay, sure.
No, I'm referring solely to the trailers. That they chose to put up front and center the sexual orientation of two girls without development is evidence enough. I won't have a problem with the full game because it will be afforded development. To use trailers, which are minutes long, to pull that into focus from the get go is very telling. Riley and Ellie had hours of development, whereas Dina (who nobody knew nor cared about) was used as nothing but a vessel to demonstrate Ellie's orientation. If you can't see that difference, I don't know what to tell you.
 
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