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AMD is Starfield’s Exclusive PC Partner

I avoid FSR like the plague, my 4090 should be strong enough to dsr or use a different form of AA so I should be fine.

It sure sucks to be a pc gamer at the moment with stuttering in most games and bribery rife now.
I've more or less decided that I'll play on my PS5 for the time being until things improve on the PC side. As much I would prefer to use my 3090, when the PS5 version actually runs better, there's just no reason for me to play on my PC.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
Holy shit at the meltdowns in here! Already trying to shift blame of the games poor performance to AMD instead of where it belongs, Bethesda.
james franco sandwich GIF


The opposite, it's because we know that bethesda games usually run like shit that we were hoping for nvidia features to soften the blow.
 
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winjer

Gold Member
It's especially bad in motion

Chernobylite

FSR 2

DLSS 2

That is not so much an issue with FSR2, but an issue on how that game deals with WPO and accurate output velocity data for vegetation.
TAAU has a similar problem in that game with lots of ghosting.
But credit is due to DLSS2, as their SDK is doing something to fix this issue with the game. Maybe there is some cvar that DLSS2 in enforcing or some different way of dealing with baseoutputvelocity.
 
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GymWolf

Gold Member
Nah I’ll be there at the release as planned but if the performance or image quality is bad they’re sure going to know about it.

This whole thing is so dumb.

In the AMD announce video they’re trying to make it sound like this is a good thing, and Todd is there talking like he has a gun pointed at him. Who signed this deal? Bethesda? MS?

MS needs to stop doing these stupid PR blunders. Just ask DF how they should handle the launch, they’ve had talks in the past, DF would give them a perfect checklist of what’s needed to get good word of mouth and have every core PC gamer be like a walking ad on social media and boards.
Now they’re going to get thrashed instead. Way to go to stumble on the finish line.

If I was MS I would do a ”we’ve heard you” thing and rip the AMD deal or at least make sure there aren’t any restrictions that DLSS can’t be used. They have the money to rip a contract, use some of the money wasted on losing the ABK deal. I heard Sony had been able to have DLSS in a AMD sponsored game. Then MS needs to do it too. It’s their dev. Just do it.
Ask to df?

Dude, fucking M should have 10000000x times the experience and knowledge compared to any youtube channel, unless we are living in a bizzarro world...

M asking df how to proceed with its games would be utterly ridicolous for such a big company.
 
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01011001

Banned
Ask to df?

Dude, fucking M should have 10000000x times the experience and knowledge compared to any youtube channel, unless we are living in a bizzarro world...

M asking df how to proceed with his games would be utterly ridicolous for such a big company.

who the fuck is M?
 

01011001

Banned
Microsoft.

well, we have seen in the past that DF actually knew more about games than their developers.

John just talked about a case in a recent DF direct where he got an early version of a game to look at and had to fix the common Unity engine physics interpolation issue to get a steady camera motion, because the developers didn't notice the issue themselves.

the developers of Dead Space remake didn't notice that the image quality on PS5 was horrible due to VRS, neither did they notice that turning VRS off basically makes no performance difference.

multiple developers during last gen forgot to turn on anisotropic texture filtering on PS4, because they didn't notice the textures looking blurry while testing it.
people thought it was an API issue on PS4, but in reality it was usually just the people on the Xbox ports of some fames noticing it missing and enabling it, while the PS4 guys just didn't.
it was such a prevalent issue in the beginning tho that people really thought the PS4 can't do texture filtering properly 🤣
but nah, the devs just forgot lol.

so never expect that the publishers or the developers of a game actually know what is best, or notice when they're making mistakes. be that on a technical side, a design issue, or just player expectations.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
well, we have seen in the past that DF actually knew more about games than their developers.

John just talked about a case in a recent DF direct where he got an early version of a game to look at and had to fix the common Unity engine physics interpolation issue to get a steady camera motion, because the developers didn't notice the issue themselves.

the developers of Dead Space remake didn't notice that the image quality on PS5 was horrible due to VRS, neither did they notice that turning VRS off basically makes no performance difference.

multiple developers during last gen forgot to turn on anisotropic texture filtering on PS4, because they didn't notice the textures looking blurry while testing it.
people thought it was an API issue on PS4, but in reality it was usually just the people on the Xbox ports of some fames noticing it missing and enabling it, while the PS4 guys just didn't.
it was such a prevalent issue in the beginning tho that people really thought the PS4 can't do texture filtering properly 🤣
but nah, the devs just forgot lol.

so never expect that the publishers or the developers of a game actually know what is best, or notice when they're making mistakes. be that on a technical side, a design issue, or just player expectations.
So we are really living in a bizaarro world where a youtbue channel knows more than a big tech company and some of the best devs in the biz.

Utterly ridicolous if you ask me.

There is always the big chance of devs playing dumb because they didn't had time to fix their games, it is extremely hard to believe that professionals can't notice glaring flaws during the betatesting.
 
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01011001

Banned
So we are really living in a bizaarro world where a youtbue channel knows more than a big tech company and some of the best devs in the biz.

Utterly ridicolous if you ask me.

too many cooks.

indy devs don't make their own engines anymore like they did in the past.

AAA devs have such big teams that guy A has no idea what guy X did.

big teams lead to individual developers feeling less attached to the games they make, leading to a lack of passion.

and publishers are still somehow using target audience testing for things they shouldn't.
on that note, just a quick reminder that the DUKE Xbox controller was chosen due to target audience testing before launch... while the Controller S was thrown to the side, and only dug out again for the Japanese release of the console.

they had both designs and chose the DUKE. while iconic now, it was subject to a lot of ridicule at the time.
 
So I guess you guys want Nvidia to have a monopoly on the GPU market then? Well then stop complaining about their exorbitant pricing.

Competition is good for the market. We want both AMD and Nvidia to thrive. Let Bethesda have their exclusive partnership. It’s good for business.

Disclaimer: I own a small equity stake in $AMD
 
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Rivdoric

Neo Member
These AMD hindrance to DLSS & other Nvidia technologies remind me the old days where it was the opposite for Nvidia Gameworks tools & PhysX.
.... Though now i think of it, AMD is acting even worse because they had nothing to propose to fight Physx/Gameworks while here, Nvidia clearly can propose their own solution so amd simply pays good money to prevent Nvidia from doing anything.
The only victim of these is the consumer ; I was annoyed at Nvidia a few years back, now i'm (even more) annoyed at AMD, This will probably never ends.
 
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01011001

Banned
These AMD hindrance to DLSS & other Nvidia technologies remind me the old days where it was the opposite for Nvidia Gameworks tools & PhysX.
The only victim of these is the consumer ; I was annoyed at Nvidia a few years back, now i'm annoyed at AMD, This will probably never ends.

why were you annoyed by completely optional features? "OH NO! that setting in that game there! it drops my framerate! how dare they!" 🤣
 

Rivdoric

Neo Member
why were you annoyed by completely optional features? "OH NO! that setting in that game there! it drops my framerate! how dare they!" 🤣

If you've been playing on PC long enough, you should know that there is no "optional feature" 👀
I'm playing on PC to get the best possible graphics & experience
PC has always been about enthusiasts.

Edit : You seem a bit confused by my message : It's not about a setting dropping framerate, it's about unavailable features.
On the current example, AMD prevents me from using DLSS & other nvidia stuff because they just paid good money.
 
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nemiroff

Gold Member
So I guess you guys want Nvidia to have a monopoly on the GPU market then? Well then stop complaining about their exorbitant pricing.

Competition is good for the market. We want both AMD and Nvidia to thrive. Let Bethesda have their exclusive partnership. It’s good for business.

Disclaimer: I own a small equity stake in $AMD
Are you for real?

Competition is good if it drives innovation and creates better products and services for the customers.

A company paying another company to block features for the users is sure as fuck not "good business", it's predatory business.
 
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01011001

Banned
If you've been playing on PC long enough, you should know that there is no "optional feature" 👀
I'm playing on PC to get the best possible graphics & experience
PC has always been about enthusiasts.

yes, and enthusiasts should be happy about forward thinking features.

Control didn't run well with RT back when it came out. but modern RTX cards run it beautifully.

Cyberpunk's RT Overdrive is the same. super taxing now, but it will run on future GPUs like butter, and therefore future proofs the game.

IMO more games on PC should push crazy shit that noone can run well now, but will eventually be perfectly useable down the line.

every UE5 game that uses Lumen should have a pathtracing toggle if you ask me. the engine allows for it. and also a slider for rays per pixel and number of bounces.

in the here and now you'd need a 4090 to run something like that at playable framerates most likely. but like in 6 years or so you'll start that game on a 7060 and crank those bounces to 3, and dial the rays per pixels in just right to hit those 60fps
 
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Topher

Gold Member
So I guess you guys want Nvidia to have a monopoly on the GPU market then? Well then stop complaining about their exorbitant pricing.

Competition is good for the market. We want both AMD and Nvidia to thrive. Let Bethesda have their exclusive partnership. It’s good for business.

Disclaimer: I own a small equity stake in $AMD

Jimmy Fallon Reaction GIF by The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon
 

nemiroff

Gold Member
So exclusive PC partner means you only use their tech? Never heard this term before.
It's been like this for a while, hence why some selected games doesn't run as well on competing hardware. It's more visible now partly because the technology gap in some respect is somewhat larger, and people are getting more technically aware.

The way these sponsorships are advertised is that f.ex. in this case AMD is "helping" Bethesda with resources to get Starfield to run optimal on AMD hardware. But that's not always what it purely means.. Obviously there are conditions in the contracts that may include blocking competing technology.
 
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It's been like this for a while, hence why some selected games doesn't run as well on competing hardware. It's more visible now partly because the technology gap in some respect is somewhat larger, and people are getting more technically aware.

The way these sponsorships are advertised is that f.ex. in this case AMD is "helping" Bethesda with resources to get Starfield to run optimal on AMD hardware. But that's not always what it purely means.. Obviously there are conditions in the contracts that may include blocking competing technology.
Lame. I thought all the major releases would offer it all. Like when they have Xbox and PlayStation control schemes.
 

Buggy Loop

Member
Anyway, AMD is playing a dangerous game here long term, if they puff their chest for FSR, Nvidia could go full « evil Nvidia » in coming years with the tsunami of AI driven features to the point where path tracing is standard but enhanced with their upcoming NRC - Neural Radiance Caching or neural volume denoising, it could get quite ugly for competition. With the tsunami of ray tracing games / path tracing enabled games with the UE5 engine, you won’t be able to say « I don’t care for RT » anymore, the engine will inherently have RT and it’s a question of time before devs ditch the previous rasterization labor intensive method.

While Nvidia bothered to make an open source package to include all upscaling solutions to make it easier for devs, why do you spite them. You let Intel enter that package with Nvidia so it also means that the competitor you should worry most about (intel) will have exposure while you’re not? Doesn’t make a goddamn sense. Their reason is shaky too, « what’s best for gamers » is some top tier bullshit.

Anyway

Bold Strategy Cotton GIF by MOODMAN
 
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Silver Wattle

Gold Member
Anyway, AMD is playing a dangerous game here long term, if they puff their chest for FSR, Nvidia could go full « evil Nvidia » in coming years with the tsunami of AI driven features to the point where path tracing is standard but enhanced with their upcoming NRC - Neural Radiance Caching or neural volume denoising, it could get quite ugly for competition. With the tsunami of ray tracing games / path tracing enabled games with the UE5 engine, you won’t be able to say « I don’t care for RT » anymore, the engine will inherently have RT and it’s a question of time before devs ditch the previous rasterization labor intensive method.

While Nvidia bothered to make an open source package to include all upscaling solutions to make it easier for devs, why do you spite them. You let Intel enter that package with Nvidia so it also means that the competitor you should worry most about (intel) will have exposure while you’re not? Doesn’t make a goddamn sense. Their reason is shaky too, « what’s best for gamers » is some top tier bullshit.

Anyway

Bold Strategy Cotton GIF by MOODMAN
Billy Madison Shut Up GIF
 
Are you for real?

Competition is good if it drives innovation and creates better products and services for the customers.

A company paying another company to block features for the users is sure as fuck not "good business", it's predatory business.

And Nvidia hasn't committed shady, anti-consumer practices in the past?

Both companies are guilty of it. Nvidia arguably more so. And yet you all still buy their cards.
 

winjer

Gold Member
Anyway, AMD is playing a dangerous game here long term, if they puff their chest for FSR, Nvidia could go full « evil Nvidia » in coming years with the tsunami of AI driven features to the point where path tracing is standard but enhanced with their upcoming NRC - Neural Radiance Caching or neural volume denoising, it could get quite ugly for competition. With the tsunami of ray tracing games / path tracing enabled games with the UE5 engine, you won’t be able to say « I don’t care for RT » anymore, the engine will inherently have RT and it’s a question of time before devs ditch the previous rasterization labor intensive method.

While Nvidia bothered to make an open source package to include all upscaling solutions to make it easier for devs, why do you spite them. You let Intel enter that package with Nvidia so it also means that the competitor you should worry most about (intel) will have exposure while you’re not? Doesn’t make a goddamn sense. Their reason is shaky too, « what’s best for gamers » is some top tier bullshit.

Anyway

LOL, NVidia got to this position by playing "evil" for over 2 decades. They never played fair with their competition.
 

Buggy Loop

Member
LOL, NVidia got to this position by playing "evil" for over 2 decades. They never played fair with their competition.

Right

I know, I was ATI/AMD exclusive for like 2 decades

But also many times, AMD didn’t have the alternative until later, always catching up. Now everyone has an upscale solution.

Intel is AMD’s biggest danger actually
 
Right

I know, I was ATI/AMD exclusive for like 2 decades

But also many times, AMD didn’t have the alternative until later, always catching up. Now everyone has an upscale solution.

Intel is AMD’s biggest danger actually
Intel has come out of nowhere to have a superior RT hardware over AMD on a clock for clock basis, plus yes they have XeSS which is already as good as or better than FSR. Their main issue is simply immaturity of drivers and that has been getting better day by day while AMD drivers always stay the same.

It's been interesting watching Intel stealing market share from AMD but having little effect on Nvidia, mainly because Intel isn't planning on competing at the high end until Battlemage which seems to still be a few years out.

AMD seems to think the solution is to pay to prevent better upscaling solutions in games, not just DLSS but also XeSS. Well good luck with that AMD, you'll need it. Intel is going to disembowel you at the low end and midrange while you watch helplessly as Nvidia dominates the high end and paying developers to not use DLSS and XeSS isn't going to change that.
 
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Topher

Gold Member
And Nvidia hasn't committed shady, anti-consumer practices in the past?

Both companies are guilty of it. Nvidia arguably more so. And yet you all still buy their cards.

Why not? If both companies are guilty then people should feel free to buy from either.
 

winjer

Gold Member
Intel has come out of nowhere to have a superior RT hardware over AMD on a clock for clock basis, plus yes they have XeSS which is already as good as or better than FSR. Their main issue is simply immaturity of drivers and that has been getting better day by day while AMD drivers always stay the same.

It's been interesting watching Intel stealing market share from AMD but having little effect on Nvidia, mainly because Intel isn't planning on competing at the high end until Battlemage which seems to still be a few years out.

AMD seems to think the solution is to pay to prevent better upscaling solutions in games, not just DLSS but also XeSS. Well good luck with that AMD, you'll need it. Intel is going to disembowel you at the low end and midrange while you watch helplessly as Nvidia dominates the high end and paying developers to not use DLSS isn't going to change that.

I would say that XeSS 1.1 is already better than FSR2.2. And it's almost as good as DLSS2.
XeSS 1.1 has a bit more ghosting than the latest versions of DLSS2. But they managed to catch up fast. Probably thanks to Intel poaching some NVidia engineers that worked on DLSS.
 
I would say that XeSS 1.1 is already better than FSR2.2. And it's almost as good as DLSS2.
XeSS 1.1 has a bit more ghosting than the latest versions of DLSS2. But they managed to catch up fast. Probably thanks to Intel poaching some NVidia engineers that worked on DLSS.
XeSS is also using AI/ML, same as DLSS. This means it will quickly become as superior to FSR as DLSS is, since FSR is simply an algorithmically calculated scaler and doesn't use any deep learning or inference. DLSS is currently the best because it's been getting trained longer but the bulk of the work is already done, so XeSS will catch up over time simply because there's more to gain early in the training than later.
 

Fredrik

Member
Ask to df?

Dude, fucking M should have 10000000x times the experience and knowledge compared to any youtube channel, unless we are living in a bizzarro world...

M asking df how to proceed with its games would be utterly ridicolous for such a big company.
Going by how the industry is today I guarantee that DF have better knowledge than most devs about what the PC community desire when it comes to performance and gfx features.
That, or devs just don’t care.
DF are complaining about something in every single tech video they create. I barely know any games where they’ve been satisfied.
 

winjer

Gold Member
XeSS is also using AI/ML, same as DLSS. This means it will quickly become as superior to FSR as DLSS is, since FSR is simply an algorithmically calculated scaler and doesn't use any deep learning or inference. DLSS is currently the best because it's been getting trained longer but the bulk of the work is already done, so XeSS will catch up over time simply because there's more to gain early in the training than later.

The thing is, these upscalers don't use that much tensor power. For example, in CP2077, XeSS running on DP4A is 2-3 fps diference from DLSS.
AMD could very well have an ML upscaling pass like XeSS, that ran just fine of their RDNA 2 and 3 cards. RDNA3 even has a bunch of WMMA instructions to accelerate these calculations, so it probably wouldn't even lose performance.

If AMD doesn't improve FSR2, then XeSS will become the preferred open upscaler, even for AMD users.
 
AMD are sponsoring Starfield? Oh that absolutely sucks because I know just how anti-consumer AMD are these days on PC. Guess we'll be stuck with sub-par FSR for upscaling then?
 
= not having the best possible performance and image quality

And like it or not but Nvidia is so big now compared to AMD among core PC gamers that not allowing DLSS will be a huge negative in the PR. Go to Twitter and watch the snowball roll. Everybody is disliking this. It’ll be even worse after the release when DF and NX do their analysis. If by a miracle it shows that it has great performance and looks good people will still wonder how much better it would look and run with DLSS.
PC gamers arent all that different from console gamers. No one complained about checkerboard upscaling, they definitely wont care about the differences with other upscaling techs.
 

Xcell Miguel

Gold Member
HeisenbergFX4 HeisenbergFX4 but it's a paid mod (you have to be a Patron to get his DLSS mods), this guy makes money thanks to AMD...

I won't pay a mod for a feature that should be free.

Fuck AMD and their inferior technology.

"Does not require dedicated machine learning hardware", AMD compares to Nvidia's DLSS, yes, that's why your FSR sucks, cunts.
 
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GymWolf

Gold Member
Going by how the industry is today I guarantee that DF have better knowledge than most devs about what the PC community desire when it comes to performance and gfx features.
That, or devs just don’t care.
DF are complaining about something in every single tech video they create. I barely know any games where they’ve been satisfied.
For me it is easier to believe that devs are lazy and don't care.
 
The problem here is that this will be another paid mod. I get it, the modder wants to make money. However, paid mods are as "anti-consumer" as AMD blocking DLSS 2. And yes, all of PureDark's DLSS 3 mods are STILL behind a Patreon wall (so we don't know when and if they become available for free to the public). So no, this isn't a solution. It's a modder taking advantage of the whole situation (and kudos to him as there is a lot of demand for these mods and he's exploiting it to make big money).
Other problem is that mod is not perfect, it's not worth a real implementation from devs...
 

nemiroff

Gold Member
And Nvidia hasn't committed shady, anti-consumer practices in the past?

Both companies are guilty of it. Nvidia arguably more so. And yet you all still buy their cards.
Where the fuck did I mention Nivida or AMD in my post. Are you that scripted?
 
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Are you for real?

Competition is good if it drives innovation and creates better products and services for the customers.

A company paying another company to block features for the users is sure as fuck not "good business", it's predatory business.
I agree, this is why nvidia hasnt been able to innovate anything in the past 2 decades because of their bad business behaviours.
 
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