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[01011001]

if only! that would be at least good. but...

look at this shit with TAA:

the top of that stump has almost like a ghost image across the small splinters...


compared to DLSS with reduced artifacts and improved sharpness

 

[demented waffle]

Good thing I didn't preorder through GMG. This is now a wait until the complete version for 30 bucks. And no, I'm not kidding. Hello, Life by You.

Fuck inferior-ass FSR. If you have an Nvidia card, skip this motherfucker.

 

[NeverYouMind]

if only! that would be at least good. but...

look at this shit with TAA:

the top of that stump has almost like a ghost image across the small splinters...


compared to DLSS with reduced artifacts and improved sharpness

Pixels too sharp. 0/10

 

[darrylgorn]

if only! that would be at least good. but...

look at this shit with TAA:

the top of that stump has almost like a ghost image across the small splinters...


compared to DLSS with reduced artifacts and improved sharpness

And double the framerate.

 

[01011001]

And double the framerate.

I mean in this case only like 25fps more, since I was already at 122fps on ultra settings + RT without DLSS2. DLSS2 pushed it above my monitor refresh tho, while adding clearity and reducing artifacts.

 

[BearNecessity]

if only! that would be at least good. but...

look at this shit with TAA:

the top of that stump has almost like a ghost image across the small splinters...


compared to DLSS with reduced artifacts and improved sharpness

Wait which one is supposed to look better? In the av world the bottom is what you call 'ringing' and it happens when movies have shitty edge enhancement added or you put the sharpness on your tv too high.

 

[ToTTenTranz]

Lol at least have the decency to cry and whine after the game is released.

Unless someone is scared shitless of Starfield turning up just fine on all hardware, and not just their RTX4060 sweet deal.

 

[Leonidas]

Can't wait for the console-riffic RT effects (if it has RT at all).

Disgusting move if this is lacking DLSS.

 

[01011001]

Wait which one is supposed to look better? In the av world the bottom is what you call 'ringing' and it happens when movies have shitty edge enhancement added or you put the sharpness on your tv too high.

mind you, this is magnified 3X and you can decrease the sharpness of DLSS manually in this game. the main attraction here are the ghosting artifacts and disocclusion issues. both of which are worse with TAA native compared to DLSS quality.

the TAA image has like 4 or 5 after images on that tree, while DLSS only has 2
in the full image you also see how objects that emerge from behind objects are being more cleanly resoled with DLSS, while TAA has disocclusion issues

 

[demented waffle]

Can't wait for the console-riffic RT effects (if it has RT at all).

Disgusting move if this is lacking DLSS.

Yep. No DLSS=no buy for full price. Wait for the complete version 3-4 years down the road for 30 bucks. Nvidia card owners should avoid if no DLSS.

 

[Buggy Loop]

if only! that would be at least good. but...

look at this shit with TAA:

the top of that stump has almost like a ghost image across the small splinters...


compared to DLSS with reduced artifacts and improved sharpness

It's especially bad in motion

Chernobylite

FSR 2

DLSS 2


RE4 is like smeared vaseline

RE4 Demo Upscaler - Imgsli

imgsli.com

Jedi survivor's FSR looks like shit



I don't know what's the plan here
Are the now majority of GPU owners with RTX series capable of DLSS supposed to look at forced FSR in their games and have anything but disgust? Is that supposed to turn them to the other team? What's the marketing's point of view on that? You really think it doesn't backfire on their image? You make me realize that I always want to use DLSS, even if i have to mod a game. Rather than invest money in marketing, invest in making the technology good! Fucking Intel beat them on first try FFS.

And AMD hasn't signed on the open source Streamline. Intel did sign with Nvidia.

Has Nvidia just become the good guy in the whole DLSS vs FSR vs XeSS debate?

Nvidia's open-source approach to making it easier for devs to implement rivals' super sampling tech is laudable.

www.pcgamer.com

 

[Wooxsvan]

hopefully a 7900xtx can run it native 4k 60 (don't care about RT)

 

[ZehDon]

Well fuck, there goes any chance of this being remotely well optimised I guess. I just hope my RTX3090 can just brute force higher frame rates without DLSS because no fucking way am I turning AMD's shit on, it turns everything into visual soup that I cannot stand.

 

[lh032]

console: Platform exclusivity
PC: EPIC/Steam, Feature exclusivity

 

[nemiroff]

Yeah.., my Steam purchase is definitely not going to happen now unless I get some good news clarification.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

It actually makes sense what MS is doing. If Starfield sells a ton on PC and but almost none on Xbox because everyone is playing for free on Gamepass it will look bad for MS's argument that Gamepass doesn't kill sales. They are hoping to minimize sales on PC in order to protect their precious Gamepass.

I'm sure Bethesda aren't happy about it but no one at Xbox gives a shit whether anyone at Bethesda lives or dies.

 

[AJUMP23]

I’m sorry this happened to you.

 

[01011001]

FSR 2

OH GOD!

 

[flying_sq]

Probably going to introduce far as the performance mode on consoles

 

[Ocean Dweller]

 

[skneogaf]

Hoping it will have TAA at least and I'll play try the game on gamepass, absolutely anything else other than FSR

 

[Otre]

Yeah, in 2 year...

2 weeks. Better in 2 months.

 

[SmokSmog]

 

[yamaci17]

Yeah.., my Steam purchase is definitely not going to happen now unless I get some good news clarification.

yep, I too was considering buying the game on Steam but this seals the deal

 

[StereoVsn]

Issue with DLSS mods is that it may not be possible to have DLSS 2 support so it's going to be limited to 4000 series cards.

This is due to Denuvo shenanigans I think and how it DRM locks certain files.

Edit: This also solves the dilemma of BG3 vs Starfield, lol. Might as well wait a few months for bug fixes (by modders) and mods to get settled.

 

[bender]

Treestumpgate

 

[Rea]

PS5 owners....

 

[Justin9mm]

Doesn't Xbox have an AMD GPU/APU/SoC?

I'm guessing from your comment, you're not a PC gamer.

 

[Fredrik]

Yep. No DLSS=no buy for full price. Wait for the complete version 3-4 years down the road for 30 bucks. Nvidia card owners should avoid if no DLSS.

Nah I’ll be there at the release as planned but if the performance or image quality is bad they’re sure going to know about it.

This whole thing is so dumb.

In the AMD announce video they’re trying to make it sound like this is a good thing, and Todd is there talking like he has a gun pointed at him. Who signed this deal? Bethesda? MS?

MS needs to stop doing these stupid PR blunders. Just ask DF how they should handle the launch, they’ve had talks in the past, DF would give them a perfect checklist of what’s needed to get good word of mouth and have every core PC gamer be like a walking ad on social media and boards.
Now they’re going to get thrashed instead. Way to go to stumble on the finish line.

If I was MS I would do a ”we’ve heard you” thing and rip the AMD deal or at least make sure there aren’t any restrictions that DLSS can’t be used. They have the money to rip a contract, use some of the money wasted on losing the ABK deal. I heard Sony had been able to have DLSS in a AMD sponsored game. Then MS needs to do it too. It’s their dev. Just do it.

 

[RickSanchez]

I watched the video and saw the title says exclusive.......but all i got from it was that Bethesda is working specifically with AMD engineers to optimize it for Ryzen and Radeon hardware. And because the video is uploaded by AMD, it doesn't mention anything about NVidia or DLSS or Ray Tracing.

But is that enough to assume it will definitely not support DLSS ? Can Bethesda not work on it themselves to enable DLSS support ? i do not know enough about game development or these technologies to make this assumption. People are reacting like this is Bethesda releasing a video saying no DLSS for you.

Am i missing something obvious ?

 

[Victor Omega]

New to pc gaming. is "Gpu exclusive games" a thing?

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I watched the video and saw the title says exclusive.......but all i got from it was that Bethesda is working specifically with AMD engineers to optimize it for Ryzen and Radeon hardware. And because the video is uploaded by AMD, it doesn't mention anything about NVidia or DLSS or Ray Tracing.

But is that enough to assume it will definitely not support DLSS ? Can Bethesda not work on it themselves to enable DLSS support ? i do not know enough about game development or these technologies to make this assumption. People are reacting like this is Bethesda releasing a video saying no DLSS for you.

Am i missing something obvious ?

All AMD sponsored titles, except (ironically) the few PC ports of Sony 1st party titles, purposely exclude DLSS support.

Thinking Starfield will be any different is mainlining pure hopium.

 

[BearNecessity]

Nah I’ll be there at the release as planned but if the performance or image quality is bad they’re sure going to know about it.

This whole thing is so dumb.

In the AMD announce video they’re trying to make it sound like this is a good thing, and Todd is there talking like he has a gun pointed at him. Who signed this deal? Bethesda? MS?

MS needs to stop doing these stupid PR blunders. Just ask DF how they should handle the launch, they’ve had talks in the past, DF would give them a perfect checklist of what’s needed to get good word of mouth and have every core PC gamer be like a walking ad on social media and boards.
Now they’re going to get thrashed instead. Way to go to stumble on the finish line.

If I was MS I would do a ”we’ve heard you” thing and rip the AMD deal or at least make sure there aren’t any restrictions that DLSS can’t be used. They have the money to rip a contract, use some of the money wasted on losing the ABK deal. I heard Sony had been able to have DLSS in a AMD sponsored game. Then MS needs to do it too. It’s their dev. Just do it.

I think we're overstating how much of a huge deal this is. If they announced that neither DLSS or FSR will be supported and that XeSS will be the only option, then gamers will just use XeSS.

 

[Mahnmut]

Why? Literally nobody has an AMD GPU.

But every tech influencers told me that Nvidia was run by Satan and that their cards were garbage and that they were all ditching Nvidia for AMD… Was I lied to ?

 

[BearNecessity]

Nvidia dont block FSR even when they sponsor a title.

Because they cant. DLSS only works on nvidia hardware so the developer would be forced to remove upscaling completely for some gamers if they went DLSS only.
DLSS would be nice and all but can we stop this hilarious narrative that nvidia is taking the altruistic approach. I'll believe it when Nvidia allows all versions of DLSS on geforce 2xxx and intel cards.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Because they cant. DLSS only works on nvidia hardware so the developer would be forced to remove upscaling completely for some gamers if they went DLSS only.
DLSS would be nice and all but can we stop this hilarious narrative that nvidia is taking the altruistic approach. I'll believe it when Nvidia allows all versions of DLSS on geforce 2xxx and intel cards.

Imagine not knowing DLSS depends on hardware acceleration provided by the tensor cores on RTX 30 and 40 series, it literally doesn't work on RTX 20 series and below and Intel cards because they literally don't have the necessary hardware

 

[01011001]

Because they cant. DLSS only works on nvidia hardware so the developer would be forced to remove upscaling completely for some gamers if they went DLSS only.

why would that be a factor? the devs that take deals like these wouldn't give a shit either way. we have heard from studios that PC versions are just the afterthought versions that barely get attention.

DLSS would be nice and all but can we stop this hilarious narrative that nvidia is taking the altruistic approach. I'll believe it when Nvidia allows all versions of DLSS on geforce 2xxx and intel cards.

that would mean a massive performance decrease, at least on AMD. Intel cards could most likely muster it, but it would need to be adjusted specifically for it.
but on AMD cards, if you even tried running DLSS2 you would most likely have almost no performance gain, maybe even a performance decrease over native. either that, or the quality would need to take a hit, at which point it would be basically FSR2.

that's why XeSS being cross compatible basically is useless. they most likely did that so that the implementation rate is higher.
but if you use XeSS on anything but an Intel card, you will have worse performance than FSR2 and barely an image quality gain over FSR2. I am actually not sure how good XeSS on AMD cards looks compared to FSR2.
did anyone ever make a detailed comparison with that?

 

[Fredrik]

I think we're overstating how much of a huge deal this is. If they announced that neither DLSS or FSR will be supported and that XeSS will be the only option, then gamers will just use XeSS.

No, I overstate nothing. Signing a deal that make sure that the majority of core PC gamers will be locked out of having the best possible performance and image quality on their PC shows a clear lack of understanding of the PC platform. AMD is tiny compared to Nvidia. Why sign a deal with them? Imagine if CDPR would sign a deal with Nvidia for the Phantom Liberty release.
Just rip the contract.
They’ve already hurt the launch by going with 30fps on console. Signing a deal with AMD is as if they’re wishing for the game to fail. The hype was there, they could’ve hit it out the park. Good luck crawling the mountain to get some good PR now.

 

[01011001]

I think we're overstating how much of a huge deal this is. If they announced that neither DLSS or FSR will be supported and that XeSS will be the only option, then gamers will just use XeSS.

XeSS looks good tho. big difference... (at least on Intel Arc)

 

[BearNecessity]

Imagine not knowing DLSS depends on hardware acceleration provided by the tensor cores on RTX 30 and 40 series, it literally doesn't work on RTX 20 series and below and Intel cards because they literally don't have the necessary hardware

lol. DLSS works fine on 20 series. And youre saying the 3080 doesnt have the necessary hardware for DLSS3?

 

[BearNecessity]

No, I overstate nothing. Signing a deal that make sure that the majority of core PC gamers will be locked out of having the best possible performance and image quality on their PC shows a clear lack of understanding of the PC platform.

They'll use FSR.

 

[01011001]

lol. DLSS works fine on 20 series. And youre saying the 3080 doesnt have the necessary hardware for DLSS3?

it doesn't have the necessary hardware to run DLSS frame generation at good performance.
the optical flow engines in RTX40 cards are about twice as fast as the ones in the RTX30 cards, while RTX20 cards are missing them completely.

so on RTX20 it wouldn't work at all without a gigantic quality drop.
and on RTX30 cards it would most likely result in a performance increase that's so small that it's not worth it.

it would be a cool thing for them to enable it on RTX30 cards, just for tech nerds, but many companies rather omitt options completely that aren't great, instead of giving these options.
which I don't personally like... one such thing is how developers refuse to give console players framerate lock and vsync options. they're scared that Tommy Luddite fiddles with the settings and suddenly has screen tearing on his shitty non VRR TV, or is annoyed that setting the FPS cap to 120 doesn't actually result in the game running at 120fps.

 

[DenchDeckard]

I was praying for real raytracing....

Damn.

 

[Fredrik]

They'll use FSR.

= not having the best possible performance and image quality

And like it or not but Nvidia is so big now compared to AMD among core PC gamers that not allowing DLSS will be a huge negative in the PR. Go to Twitter and watch the snowball roll. Everybody is disliking this. It’ll be even worse after the release when DF and NX do their analysis. If by a miracle it shows that it has great performance and looks good people will still wonder how much better it would look and run with DLSS.

 

[Hudo]

I'm guessing from your comment, you're not a PC gamer.

I actually am. Only own Nintendo consoles on occasion. Why?

 

[mansoor1980]

i bet this engine still has problems with high framerates , so adding framegen might be tricky

 

[twilo99]

I actually am. Only own Nintendo consoles on occasion. Why?

According to the latest gossip, it would seem like you do not own “consoles” because Nintendo doesn’t make those.

 

[Hudo]

According to the latest gossip, it would seem like you do not own “consoles” because Nintendo doesn’t make those.

Well, if the internet is saying this, it must be true.

 

[john2gr]

They're already on it

The problem here is that this will be another paid mod. I get it, the modder wants to make money. However, paid mods are as "anti-consumer" as AMD blocking DLSS 2. And yes, all of PureDark's DLSS 3 mods are STILL behind a Patreon wall (so we don't know when and if they become available for free to the public). So no, this isn't a solution. It's a modder taking advantage of the whole situation (and kudos to him as there is a lot of demand for these mods and he's exploiting it to make big money).

 

[skneogaf]

I avoid FSR like the plague, my 4090 should be strong enough to dsr or use a different form of AA so I should be fine.

It sure sucks to be a pc gamer at the moment with stuttering in most games and bribery rife now.